[meteorite-list] Martian meteorites suggest Mars is wetter than previously thought
Does Mars' interior hold huge reservoirs of water? Martian meteorites say yes. (+video) (Some parts of Mars' interior are as wet as that of Earth, a new study finds.) Christian Science Monitor, June 25, 2012 http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0625/Does-Mars-interior-hold-huge-reservoirs-of-water-Martian-meteorites-say-yes.-video Martian meteorites suggest Mars is wetter than previously thought, Brunsen Burner Blog, June 24, 2012 http://www.thebunsenburner.com/news/martian-meteorites-suggest-mars-is-wetter-than-previously-thought/ Mars Has Oceans of Water Inside? (And volcanoes flooded early Mars with H2O, meteorite study hints.) National Geographic News, June 26, 2012 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/06/120626-mars-water-mantle-oceans-meteorites-space-science/ The paper is: McCubbin, F. M., E. H. Hauri, S. M. Elardo, K. E. Vander Kaaden, J. Wang, and C. K. Shearer Jr., 2012, Hydrous melting of the martian mantle produced both depleted and enriched shergottites. Geology. First published online June 15, 2012, doi: 10.1130/G33242.1 http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/early/2012/06/15/G33242.1.abstract Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Wow... That is so far off base from my comments that I am in shock that you would think that. In the future, should you feel I have said something that offended you, please address me PRIVATELY to make sure you even know what I am commenting on. I WAS NOT even talking about your email or did I even see it! Your actions here is another example of you over reacting in such a manner that has driven Tom Phillips from this list. In doing research on meteorites, I came across a documented history of you being very rude and unprofessional on this list, dating back to an incident between you and Mike Farmer over park forest material... I know I have had a few foot in mouth moments, but mine was due to inexperience... what is your excuse? Sorry to bring this up, but since you chose to address me publicly on this, I feel a reply is needed. Should you wish to discuss this misunderstanding in private, I would welcome an email from you to clear the air. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote: From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Cc: Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 2:37 AM Hello GregC, I am currently out of town at the moment so have just read your email regarding hype. You point out Jim Strope's suspension of NWA 998 sales and then someone else offering some for sale, me I presume because I sent an image of Adam and my NWA 998 Main Mass and my email 'joke' of having a few grams of small fragments that the nanosatellites could chew on and make tiny mole holes in it. I in no way offered any For Sale but was asked privately to sell some now but I refused saying I did NOT want to sell any on an emotionally motivated purchase from the upcoming NASA announcement. Maybe you can ask around and find out who if they choose to be known. You should re-think who you claim is pulling some hype, do not forget your King of Angrites is a PAIRING to NWA 2999 and is dwarfed by NWA 4931, the largest of the 2999 group which also has the King crystal sizes that seem to be hype by a particular List member. I actually take offense to your comments made about me and Jim, get a sense of humour and a check the hype comments at the door! Respectfully, Greg Hupe On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:41 PM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: I have to agree, I think sales hype will be the main factor to any increased prices of Martian meteorites until 100% proof is offered... an example of sales hype - Before the NASA announcement was even made, one person stopped selling a certain martian while another immediately offered some for sale. Reminds me of the old time sales tactics used to create a perceived demand, supply shortage and scarcity while a partner offers to supply those who missed out from the other persons stock. Just using this an an example of how hype can create an artificial increase in cost with good sales planning from people working together. If that time comes that fossils are found in any meteorite, all will jump up in price and demand I think. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net wrote: From: Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: 'Thunder Stone' stanleygr...@hotmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 3:14 PM Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Hello GregC, I am currently out of town at the moment so have just read your email regarding hype. You point out Jim Strope's suspension of NWA 998 sales and then someone else offering some for sale, me I presume because I sent an image of Adam and my NWA 998 Main Mass and my email 'joke' of having a few grams of small fragments that the nanosatellites could chew on and make tiny mole holes in it. I in no way offered any For Sale but was asked privately to sell some now but I refused saying I did NOT want to sell any on an emotionally motivated purchase from the upcoming NASA announcement. Maybe you can ask around and find out who if they choose to be known. You should re- think who you claim is pulling some hype, do not forget your King of Angrites is a PAIRING to NWA 2999 and is dwarfed by NWA 4931, the largest of the 2999 group which also has the King crystal sizes that seem to be hype by a particular List member. I actually take offense to your comments made about me and Jim, get a sense of humour and a check the hype comments at the door! Respectfully, Greg Hupe On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:41 PM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: I have to agree, I think sales hype will be the main factor to any increased prices of Martian meteorites until 100% proof is offered... an example of sales hype - Before the NASA announcement was even made, one person stopped selling a certain martian while another immediately offered some for sale. Reminds me of the old time sales tactics used to create a perceived demand, supply shortage and scarcity while a partner offers to supply those who missed out from the other persons stock. Just using this an an example of how hype can create an artificial increase in cost with good sales planning from people working together. If that time comes that fossils are found in any meteorite, all will jump up in price and demand I think. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net wrote: From: Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: 'Thunder Stone' stanleygr...@hotmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 3:14 PM Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
everything began a decade ago, NWA 002 and what for prices you have to pay for them, you know too. (Sooo, and to turn back to the title line, to crimp more advertizing in that posting, cause we're all in only for the mammon and finally to calm your fears Greg C. about the Martian prices to come, we'll distribute after the little EL4 main mass will have gone, the very last two slices of 4925, quite the wildest and most colorful shergottite of all, that with the pseudo-orangettes - but not here on the list - and that at the prices we had years ago). Martian greetings! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von JoshuaTreeMuseum Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Dezember 2010 06:11 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites I'm pretty sure the raison d'etre behind the Mars Missions is to look for life or signs of biological activity. I know they're looking for water, but why? Could it be because 70 to 90% of a living organism is water? Water is the prime ingredient and habitat for life. Something like 80% of all Earth fossils are marine. From the very beginning, they've been looking for signs of life. The search for water is a subset of the main goal of looking for life. Mariner 4 calculated that liquid water could not exist on Mar's surface. The Viking orbiters were looking for signs of ancient water to determine if life could have existed in the Martian past. Since they figured out that multicellular life was a no go, the Viking probes went to Mars in the 1970s to specifically look for single-celled organisms and organic matter. The Phoenix lander of 2008 had two goals: look for life supporting habitable zones and of course, to look for geologic signs of water. All the future Mars missions on the drawing board have one purpose. To look for signs of life! So far none of the evidence has met the criteria and parameters for exo-biologic origin. Humans are a lonely herd. We just can't believe that we're all alone. It's hard to accept that the closest, most Earth-like planet we can imagine is a cold, desolate, lifeless place. - Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have. (SW) Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Hello Martin and List, As always Martin, you are a true gentleman and a scholar! I appreciate how you get to the point and then go on to explain situations in a thorough manner, Thank You! In my case, I tend to be to the point in a more blunt manner sometimes, especially if I am tapping on an iPhone. As for GregC and his denial of directing his comments at Jim and I, we on this List are not stupid, just another upsetting insult. I might be getting older, slower, blinder, less patient, but sure as heck not getting dumber! To say he didn't even read my joke email is a poor toss out there. As for List archives, they are a fun read aren't they? You will see a couple squabbles over the years, but you will also see infinately more new meteorites being announced and discussed by the very same folks who compete AND work together. Good, healthy competition even with occasion squabbles is a good thing!! Keep up the excellent work, Martin and Stefan! The world is a better place because of contributions by you and several others, and a lot better explained! ;-) Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Dec 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi there, Well Phil, we simply don't know it - aaand that's why we have to look for it! I see also a nice side-effect in the press conference by NASA - some advertizing, always necessary to get the budgets passed. Remember - the announcement of the supposed fossil remnants in ALH84001, even by president Clinton - when did it take place? And when started the great Martian renaissance with all these incredible successful orbiters and rovers? And if you keep in mind, that sample-return-mission projected, if it will be realized, will be after the ISS and the space shuttle missions, the most expensive mission, the most costly planetary space-probe ever. Hopefully it will be done. And until then, we have to take potluck with the Martian meteorites we have already. hi Greg Greg, could you please reconcile your differences off-list? Greg H. - I guess Greg C. simply didn't get the joke, because he isn't aware of the funny story of Haag, Zagami and ALH84001. And Greg C. I know that you sometimes support the notion, that we're all in meteorites only for the money. Though the meteorite prices are not endangered by new scientific recoveries. Much more they are endangered, because still some meteoricists and some clerks haven't recognized yet the direct correlation of find rates/availability of meteorites and the legal situation in the countries, they were and shall be found. You can observe already now the step-back and the regress in newly found material due to always new restrictions. Check the bulletins, what for a decline we have the very last 3 years in newly recovered unpaired planetaries. And regarding especially the Martians, I'm not sure how long you're in meteorites, but they already doubled, tripled, quadrupled in price during the last 4 years, because of that. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
GregC, I still take exception with what appears to be your accusation that 'some' people were conspiring to create a supply and demand sales gimmick for NWA 998. I guess Jim and Adam can decide if they feel the same way. Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: I think it was simple misunderstanding. All my post was intended to point out is that the NASA announcement was not going to increase prices, but if there was an increase it would likely be due to smart marketing. As for comments directed you (Greg H) as I said in my email sorry if you think they were but they were not. THIS is what I was commenting on... Jim, I can understand the need to suspend sales of NWA 998 until further notice. I can hear the researchers and paleontologists chanting Drill Baby, Drill as they are knocking down your door to get at some of those micro-fossils. Astrobiologists will be scampering for pieces once they figure out how fossil-rich this Nakhlite is. Too bad there are a lot of posers claiming to have found alien life forms to gain press, fame and money. It will cheapen the experience when the real deal is studied more, accepted and announced following proper protocol. As for me, several requests for pieces of NWA 998 have come in. Sorry, I only have a few milligrams left other than the main mass which will not be cut again. Best Regards, Adam Listees... Sales of my remaining specimens of NWA 998 have been suspended until further notice. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/; Right after these two posts from Adam - one from 6:22 and the other from 19 minutes later... It must have leaked out that NWA 998 is the most fossil-rich meteorite ever found or perhaps they found some more in other Nahklites. http://skymania.com/wp/2010/04/new-meteorite-clues-to-life-on- mars.html It will be interesting to hear what the big boys have to say. Adam Many believe that extraterrestrial proof of life will come this year by way of Martian Nahklite meteorites. http://skymania.com/wp/2010/01/proof-of-martians-will-come-this-year.html Maybe NASA is getting the jump on all of the recent posers who are making similar claims. Happy Hunting, Adam So as you can see, YOU (GregH) were not even thought about. Last Im going to say on this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 10:34 AM Hi there, Well Phil, we simply don't know it - aaand that's why we have to look for it! I see also a nice side-effect in the press conference by NASA - some advertizing, always necessary to get the budgets passed. Remember - the announcement of the supposed fossil remnants in ALH84001, even by president Clinton - when did it take place? And when started the great Martian renaissance with all these incredible successful orbiters and rovers? And if you keep in mind, that sample-return-mission projected, if it will be realized, will be after the ISS and the space shuttle missions, the most expensive mission, the most costly planetary space-probe ever. Hopefully it will be done. And until then, we have to take potluck with the Martian meteorites we have already. hi Greg Greg, could you please reconcile your differences off-list? Greg H. - I guess Greg C. simply didn't get the joke, because he isn't aware of the funny story of Haag, Zagami and ALH84001. And Greg C. I know that you sometimes support the notion, that we're all in meteorites only for the money. Though the meteorite prices are not endangered by new scientific recoveries. Much more they are endangered, because still some meteoricists and some clerks haven't recognized yet the direct correlation of find rates/availability of meteorites and the legal situation in the countries, they were and shall be found. You can observe already now the step-back and the regress in newly found material due to always new restrictions. Check the bulletins, what for a decline we have the very last 3 years in newly recovered unpaired planetaries. And regarding especially the Martians, I'm not sure how long you're in meteorites, but they already doubled, tripled, quadrupled in price during the last 4 years, because of that. And sooner or later, the collectors, hunters and dealers won't know anymore, how they still should supply the universities and museums further, with affordable, but rare and scientifically significant new materials. And really the least university institutes are in such a likewise comfortable financial situation like e.g
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
I have to agree, I think sales hype will be the main factor to any increased prices of Martian meteorites until 100% proof is offered... an example of sales hype - Before the NASA announcement was even made, one person stopped selling a certain martian while another immediately offered some for sale. Reminds me of the old time sales tactics used to create a perceived demand, supply shortage and scarcity while a partner offers to supply those who missed out from the other persons stock. Just using this an an example of how hype can create an artificial increase in cost with good sales planning from people working together. If that time comes that fossils are found in any meteorite, all will jump up in price and demand I think. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net wrote: From: Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: 'Thunder Stone' stanleygr...@hotmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 3:14 PM Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
I wouldn't call it hype when a major institution like the University of Toronto announces it: http://skymania.com/wp/2010/04/new-meteorite-clues-to-life-on-mars.html This has nothing to do with sales on my part. I only have a few milligrams left of NWA 998 to sell unless somebody wants the main mass which is currently not for sale. People who bought some of this in the past should be happy since I was told by a researcher that it is much, much more rich in presumed fossils than the world famous ALH 84001.They are trying to prove this without a doubt as mentioned in the article. I find this very exciting and nothing to do with hype. I was just making the point that there are a lot flakes out there gathering media attention with crazy claims of alien life and posting outrageous prices to the press. It seems when a reliable institution makes an announcement, it goes largely ignored. Why is this? Adam - Original Message From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 12:41:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites I have to agree, I think sales hype will be the main factor to any increased prices of Martian meteorites until 100% proof is offered... an example of sales hype - Before the NASA announcement was even made, one person stopped selling a certain martian while another immediately offered some for sale. Reminds me of the old time sales tactics used to create a perceived demand, supply shortage and scarcity while a partner offers to supply those who missed out from the other persons stock. Just using this an an example of how hype can create an artificial increase in cost with good sales planning from people working together. If that time comes that fossils are found in any meteorite, all will jump up in price and demand I think. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net wrote: From: Guenther abe.guent...@mnsi.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: 'Thunder Stone' stanleygr...@hotmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 3:14 PM Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Sales of my remaining specimens of Monturaqu Impactite have also been suspended until further notice. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ I have to agree, I think sales hype will be the main factor to any increased prices of Martian meteorites until 100% proof is offered... an example of sales hype - Before the NASA announcement was even made, one person stopped selling a certain martian while another immediately offered some for sale. Reminds me of the old time sales tactics used to create a perceived demand, supply shortage and scarcity while a partner offers to supply those who missed out from the other persons stock. Just using this an an example of how hype can create an artificial increase in cost with good sales planning from people working together. If that time comes that fossils are found in any meteorite, all will jump up in price and demand I think. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Guenther abe.guenther at mnsi.net wrote: From: Guenther abe.guenther at mnsi.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: 'Thunder Stone' stanleygregr at hotmail.com , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 3:14 PM Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com ] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Galactic Stone and Ironworks has suspended sales of all Jesus-related ice meteorites. ;) CM1 Toliet Plungers are still available at a discount. -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 12/2/10, Jim Strope nwa...@comcast.net wrote: Sales of my remaining specimens of Monturaqu Impactite have also been suspended until further notice. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ I have to agree, I think sales hype will be the main factor to any increased prices of Martian meteorites until 100% proof is offered... an example of sales hype - Before the NASA announcement was even made, one person stopped selling a certain martian while another immediately offered some for sale. Reminds me of the old time sales tactics used to create a perceived demand, supply shortage and scarcity while a partner offers to supply those who missed out from the other persons stock. Just using this an an example of how hype can create an artificial increase in cost with good sales planning from people working together. If that time comes that fossils are found in any meteorite, all will jump up in price and demand I think. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Guenther abe.guenther at mnsi.net wrote: From: Guenther abe.guenther at mnsi.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites To: 'Thunder Stone' stanleygregr at hotmail.com , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 3:14 PM Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. If even one meteorite could ever prove to have fossils, regardless where it originated, it would revolutionize this hobby / industry! I would guess that as soon as one proves to have fossils of life beyond a shadow of a doubt, any other secret evidence of ET will rapidly surface. If that is what it takes to know for sure ET exists, I hope I find one soon because I am extremely anxious to know for sure! Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com ] On Behalf Of Thunder Stone Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:44 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites List: I wonder if this will increase the demand (and value) of all Martian Meteorites since they believe possible life is within multiple Martian Meteorites. Be interesting to see what happens. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
I have some Mono Lake salt I'd be happy to trade for any martian meteorite. Howard Wu Bishop, CA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Just wanted to note that neither of the current MERs were designed to look for signs of life (well, short of bumping into a house or some such grin. In fact the last machines sent to Mars to look for signs of life were the Viking landers back in the 70s. Happily that is soon to change with next year's planned launch of MSL. More data here: http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl Clear skies, patrick Good point Greg but since the Mars Rovers haven't found any evidence of life, it would be hugely coincidental for a meteorite from there to have any fossils. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
I'm pretty sure the raison d'etre behind the Mars Missions is to look for life or signs of biological activity. I know they're looking for water, but why? Could it be because 70 to 90% of a living organism is water? Water is the prime ingredient and habitat for life. Something like 80% of all Earth fossils are marine. From the very beginning, they've been looking for signs of life. The search for water is a subset of the main goal of looking for life. Mariner 4 calculated that liquid water could not exist on Mar's surface. The Viking orbiters were looking for signs of ancient water to determine if life could have existed in the Martian past. Since they figured out that multicellular life was a no go, the Viking probes went to Mars in the 1970s to specifically look for single-celled organisms and organic matter. The Phoenix lander of 2008 had two goals: look for life supporting habitable zones and of course, to look for geologic signs of water. All the future Mars missions on the drawing board have one purpose. To look for signs of life! So far none of the evidence has met the criteria and parameters for exo-biologic origin. Humans are a lonely herd. We just can't believe that we're all alone. It's hard to accept that the closest, most Earth-like planet we can imagine is a cold, desolate, lifeless place. - Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have. (SW) Phil Whitmer Just wanted to note that neither of the current MERs were designed to look for signs of life (well, short of bumping into a house or some such grin. In fact the last machines sent to Mars to look for signs of life were the Viking landers back in the 70s. Happily that is soon to change with next year's planned launch of MSL. More data here: http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl Clear skies, patrick __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites ?
Hello List, Do any of the Martian Meteorites contain traces of amino acids? Thanks, Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites Record Surface Temperatures on Mars
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July05/Mars_paleotemp.html Martian Meteorites Record Surface Temperatures on Mars Planetary Science Research Discoveries July 29, 2005 --- Gases trapped in Martian meteorites indicate that Mars has been a cold desert for a long, long time. Written by G. Jeffrey Taylor Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology Using published data for argon (Ar) released when Martian meteorites are heated, David Shuster (California Institute of Technology, now at Berkeley Geochronology Center, Berkeley, CA) and Benjamin Weiss (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) show that the nakhlite group of Martian meteorites ../PSRDglossary.html#snc and unique Martian meteorite ALH 84001 were probably not heated above about 0 oC ../PSRDglossary.html#celsius for most of their histories. This indicates that the surface of Mars has been cold for almost four billion years. If a warm, wet environment existed on Mars (inferred from previous studies of surface features and geochemical parameters), it occurred before four billion years ago. Reference: * Shuster, David L. and Benjamin P. Weiss (2005) Martian surface paleotemperatures from thermochronology of Meteorites. Science, vol. 309, p. 594-597. Soaking Wet, Bone Dry Mars Climate change on Earth is often in the news. Climate specialists worry about swings in global temperatures of several degrees Celsius. This does not sound like much, but it is enough to cause ice ages sometimes and widespread shallow seas at other times. But those changes are nothing compared to what the planet Mars seems to have experienced. Mars is decorated with huge channels eroded when vast quantities of water flowed through them. Oceans may have existed in the northern plains. Valley networks decorate the planet's surface. Yet now it is a dry, cold place. The daily average temperature at the equator is an ultra-nippy 60 oC below zero. Its monotonous dry climate has been enlivened occasionally by water seeping from the sides of impact craters, and changes in the planet's tilt may have moved glaciers from the current poles to more equatorial regions, but basically it has been colder and drier than anyplace on Earth. Yet at some time in the past, probably billions of years ago, Mars was a much warmer and wetter place. Mars flaunts strong evidence for vigorous water activity in the past (see images below from left to right), such as immense, water-carved outflow channels, valley networks, possibly an extensive northern ocean, and presence of layered deposits whose origin involved evaporation of salty water. Martian water features On the other hand (see images below), it appears today to be extremely dry, a vast desert shaped mostly by wind, except in a limited number of locales where water has recently formed gullies on the walls of impact craters. [Images] [Image] Columbia Hills, Gusev crater-wall gullies David Shuster and Benjamin Weiss wanted to determine past temperatures during this impressively long Martian cold, dry spell. Experts in determining the ages of rocks using potassium-argon dating and its advanced cousin, 40Ar/39Ar dating, they reckoned that Martian meteorites contained a record of surface temperatures. This is possible because Ar leaks out of rocks unless they are kept cool enough. They chose to study the nakhlite group of Martian meteorites because they do not have the same level of shock damage by meteoroid impact as do other types of Martian meteorites, thereby minimizing one form of heating besides surface temperature. They also studied data from Allan Hills (ALH) 84001 because it is by far the oldest in our collection of Martian meteorites. (For evidence that Martian meteorites actually do come from Mars, go to the curatorial office http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/marsmets/indepth.htm at the Johnson Space Center.) Nakhlites have already proven to be useful in assessing the timing of relatively recent aqueous events on Mars (see PSRD article: Liquid Water on Mars: The Story from Meteorites http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May00/wetMars.html). The nakhlites contain mineral grains formed by the reaction of water with original minerals and deposition of others as the solutions dried up (see images below). Tim Swindle and his colleagues at the University of Arizona determined from potassium-argon dating that these water-based alteration events were of short duration and took place intermittently during the past 600 million years or so. Shuster and Weiss hoped to look at a broader time scale and to set limits on the temperature during the past 4 billion years. olivine and sulfates in MIL03346 The nakhlite group of Martian meteorites show that small amounts of water have flowed on Mars since the nakhlites formed in lava flows 1.3 billion years ago. On the left is a transmitted light photograph of red staining in an olivine crystal in the MIL 03346
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites on ebay
For those who dont win Adam's specimen of NWA 1110 on ebay, I still have a few specimens of my Real Nwa 1110 that I will be listing on ebay within the next few days. Thanks BE __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
Hi Adam, While I find your commentary fascinating, I not with interest and distaste that your previous post was dated 5-12-04 and this most resent post is dated 5-13-04. This puts and keeps your email at the top of my (and everyone's) in list and is a scam used by spammers. I am sure that is not your intent and encourage you to set your program to today's date. Again - very interesting information - thanks, Michael on 5/13/04 5:09 PM, Adam Hupe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Martin and List, Martians bottomed out two and a half years ago according to our data base. Zagami could be purchased for $140.00 a gram then and DAG 476 for $120.00. Both sell for around $300.00 a gram now. It is understandable that the SAU005 and DAG 476 series would be at the low end of the feeding chain because of the amount of supply. I feel Zagami (a witnessed fall selling for less than NWA Martians) is under priced right now because most of it has now been distributed and larger specimens are becoming increasingly difficult to find. Nakhla (another witnessed fall selling for less than NWA Nakhlites) is the least expensive Nakhlite right now but has held steady at around $1,200 a gram for several years making it a relatively safe investment. It looks like TKW is the factor that most influences the price of Martian material. Surprisingly, it does not seem to matter that some are witnessed falls according to our database which tracks auction prices not dealers. Martians were one of the first type of meteorites to depreciate and are among the first to recover from the downturn of a couple years back. They have outperformed everything the last two and half years according to our collection database. Lunar on the other hand seems to be under appreciated right now. We feel that it was priced way too high four years ago and the price seems to have over corrected itself. We have improved our collection greatly taking advantage of these low prices as have several other collectors so you wont hear us complaining. At a fraction of the weight of Martians, Lunar represent the biggest bargain right now, in our opinion. I feel as a whole, the so-called market is still adjusting itself. Witnessed falls were among the last items to drop in price and still continue to decrease sharply according to our database that represents most available falls contained in our collection. The low petrologic type chondrites and rare material having been holding steady lately indicating the demand is good and the price has been beaten down about as far is it is going to go. If the supply were to suddenly drop you can count on rare material to be among the first to show a sharp rise in price according to our predictions. Cataloging our collection has given us some insights into how valuable different types of meteorites really are. The good news is that overall the so-called market is recovering in most sectors and most items have remained steady or increased slightly over the last quarter. It is too soon to tell if it has to do with the economy as a whole. Wishing everybody the best, Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- When Jesus said Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites Made Easy
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_803_1.asp Martian Meteorites Made Easy By J. Kelly Beatty Sky Telescope November 25, 2002 For two decades, planetary geologists have been painting their dynamicist colleagues into an ever-tighter corner. Several dozen meteorites with Marslike compositions argue that asteroidal impacts occasionally blast rocks off the Red Planet, and that some of these rocks eventually find their way to Earth. Yet dynamicists initially scoffed at the notion that chunks of Mars could ever be accelerated to escape velocity (5 kilometers per second) without having them shocked to smithereens. After much number crunching, however, impact modelers eventually deduced that it could be done - if the impact event were powerful enough to leave behind a crater at least 10 km across. The timing seemed plausible; the youngest Martian meteorites are volcanic basalts only 180 million years old, and collisions big enough to make 10-km craters occur on Mars about once every 200 million years on average. But such an impact should have left a sizable, fresh-looking scar on one of the planet's lava-covered plains, and nothing so obvious has turned up. Moreover, the evidence in hand suggests that at least six separate ejections have taken place. Fortunately, computer impact simulations now suggest that such big bangs aren't needed after all. In the November 7th edition of Science Express, three researchers conclude that collisions yielding craters only 3 km across are energetic enough to eject millions of small Martian rocks into interplanetary space. Collisions of this size should happen on Mars every 200,000 years or so, and consequently chunks of the Red Planet should be plunking down on Earth several times each year. James N. Head (Raytheon Missile Systems), who performed the computer modeling for his doctoral thesis at the University of Arizona, also managed to solve another Martian-meteorite quandary. Most of these stones crystallized within the last few hundred million years, yet roughly half of the Red Planet's surface is a good 4 billion years old. So why haven't more old Martians been found? The key, as Head and his colleagues explain, is that the meteorites must have originally been buried in the layer of regolith, or crushed rock, that covers the planet's exterior. Younger regions, like the lava plains, have relatively thin crush zones, but the most ancient terrains are covered to depths of hundreds of meters. Because the presence of a thick regolith reduces ejection speeds, only very energetic impacts can excavate material from these regions - and since big impacts are infrequent on Mars, ancient samples of Mars should reach Earth only rarely. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
