At the risk of furthing an off-topic topic...I'll try to steer it back to
meteoritic relevence:
There is a subtle irony in the 'big' questions discussed within this thread
before (no, not irons, although I won't rule it out!)...all we do is re-read
books such as Dodd's earlier edition of Meteorites to remember how recently
there were no lunars yet, (at that point)....and if our highly respected
meteoriticists had ruled out possibilities, we'd have been stuck.
Personally, if I can't rule something out, I will rule it in as a potential.
Put another way, that which science cannot yet explain should be possible.
As with all of us, aren't we waiting in extreme excitement to hear of the
possibilities with Tissint, for example? (I recall this same feeling when
NWA 5400 arrived, and many many others)....
Richard Montgomery
----- Original Message -----
From: <e...@meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to MakeLife's
Components
Good points Richard, Michael, (I will apologize in advance for the length
of this post; I started writing a couldn't stop)
Divine Creation vs Natural Formation. That is the question. That is a
VERY large part of why I love meteorites so much. Meteorites have allowed
me a look into the universe and answer some very important personal,
spiritual, and scientific questions as to the origins of Earth, the
planets, and ourselves. Meteorites are keys to unlocking our past, the
formation of Earth, the solar system, stars, galaxies, and ultimately the
universe itself.
The problem with the divine creation (anthropomorphic creator) hypothesis
is that it's an assumption of observance. In other words the watchmaker
paradox. The universe exists, how did it come to be? Something must have
"created" it. Right? Not necessarily. That my friends is an absolute
assumption.
And the argument should stop right there, but it doesn't. Believers will
argue that something can't come from nothing and non-believers will argue
that everything came from what we perceive as nothing. (The Big Bang)
Science and non-believers go one step further and say "We don't know what
happened before the Big Bang." That is intellectual honesty and good
science. And this might be offensive to some, and I'm sorry if offends,
but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity started it, is pure
speculation, because no one knows what happened before, in the beginning,
and it creates the creator to explain the unexplained formation of the
observable. Why can't the unexplained stop and start at "I don't know,
lets find out." instead of "god did it."?
Evolution, Panspermia, Transpermia, Abiogenesis, Planetary Science,
Astrobiology, Astronomy, Anthropology, Archeology, they all help explain
the universe and world around us.
Meteorites specifically are absolutely a vital clue to unlocking the
secrets of the universe because they (the asteroids and comets that make
them) not only are they the very material that formed our planet, every
single planet, planetesimal, asteroid, comet, meteoroid, and spec of dust
floating around our star was once part of another star before, as are we.
It's a cycle, a system, a circular system of formation and destruction,
somewhere in between life formed.
Why create a creator to explain the unexplainable? Why not instead use
science to determine origins rather than speculate on a divine
supernatural beginning. Empirical evidenced fact outweighs speculative
assumption every time. We are in fact part of nature, not separate from
it. We need not transpose an anthropomorphic creatot to explain something
we don't yet know.
Regardless of whether there is a divine creator, or not, no one can prove
it empirically either way. (yet) That's what science is for. If there is,
science will find out, if there is not, science will find out. Either
way, the truth will only be the truth when we prove it with evidence, not
speculative assumption of the observable.
Regards,
Eric
Quoting Richard Montgomery <rickm...@earthlink.net>:
Hi Michael and List (a different Richard here!)
Contrary to the often mis-conception that 'religion' and 'God' are
interchangeable...and considering the 'dangerous' ground upon which a
discussion of this sort may be inappropriate for the meteoritical
discussion here....allow me this thought:
A person of 'faith' may not rule out transpernmia in theory; it simply
expands the pie. A 'religious' person tied tether-bound to a strick
doctrine may reject such an 'outlandish' notion out-of-hand, as it
disrupts the entire reality from which their foundation is built.
In short, (in my small and insignificant yet human perspective), it
should be rational to allow both transpermia and a perspective of God
that trancends all current 'views' of even Christianity, allowing for
all three to co-exist....just a thought....
Richard Montgomery
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlbl...@cox.net>
To: "Dick Lipke" <richardli...@comcast.net>; "Meteorite List"
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make
Life's Components
Hi Richard,
As an Anthropologist I can assure you all religions have NOT
Viewed God as male - some were female and some were non-gender
Specific "spirit."
Garry, I agree with you - interesting topic, but I fear a good
many
On the list would see it as non-meteorite related in spite of the fact
That transpermia (via meteorites) compels such a discussion about why
People "of faith" would reject transpermia out of hand. They damned
Near tortured Galileo to death for saying the world was not the center
Of the universe (and he lived the remainder of his life under house
arrest).
Religious persecution of scientific recognition of inconvenient
facts has always been part of history and continues to this day - most
religions holding the view, "the way we see things IS the way things
are"
while others overtly state that view AND feel the DUTY to kill anyone
when sees things differently - hence 9/11.
Weird, weird, weird & weirder.
Michael
On 3/11/12 2:23 PM, "Dick Lipke" <richardli...@comcast.net> wrote:
Micheal,
That is an excellent point that has always baffled me and I could never
understand the thinking
of any religion in this world. All the different Gods worshiped world
wide
have always been considered a male.
Which brings up the problem, "Which came first, the chicken or the
egg."
I think all these religions could be easier to swallow if their God was
a
female.
That would answer the question, she "God" was a female carrying the
first egg
that resulted
in the birth of the universe.
Richard Lipke
----- Original Message -----
A major element in the problem with most of those calling
Themselves Christians these days is that they
See God as an anthropomorphic individual. This makes it
Difficult to see the "glory" or creation in anything other
Than comic book images.
They actually envision God as a big (male) human who
Literally, with His hands, shaped Adam out of mud.....
They cannot even see what a nearly perfect allegory that is
For evolution arising from a primeval "soup."
Evidence of transpermia is growing - but don't confuse
Them with facts.
Odd
Michael
On 3/10/12 5:58 AM, "Dick Lipke" <richardli...@comcast.net> wrote:
Years ago I got a lot of questionable looks concerning my sanity
when I
brought up
the idea of meteorites being "the Johny Appleseed of of life on
Earth" to
members of my astronomy club.
Needless to say it resulted in many,many comments of out rage.
They reminded me of how it must have felt to be among the first
to refute the idea that Earth was the center of the Universe.
Lucky for me my kind of thinking came in 20th century, back then
they still
burnt
people at the stake for being possessed by satin.
Richard Lipke
----- Original Message -----
Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
ScienceDaily, March 9, 2012,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120309104845.htm
Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
Klaus Schmidt, March 10, 2012
http://spacefellowship.com/news/art27926/meteorites-reveal-another-way-to-m
ak
e-life-s-components.html
The paper is:
Burton, A. S., J. E. Elsila, M. P. Callahan, M. G. Martin, D. P.
Glavin, N. M. Johnson, and J. P. Dworkin. A propensity
for n-w-amino acids in thermally altered Antarctic
meteorites. Meteoritics & Planetary Science. Article
first published online: 8 March 2012
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.2012.01341.x/abstrac>>>>
t
best wishes,
Paul H.
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