[meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
The New Australian Destert Fireball Network introduces itself: http://kuerzer.de/ADFN Best! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Well, at least nobody can spoil their little party. It reminds me of a rich kid who lives down the block, whose parents threw him an big extravagant birthday bash - but none of the poor kids in the neighborhood were invited. So we got hang around outside in the street and hear the fun without participating in it. We could watch the guests arrive, watch the clowns arrive, watch the petting zoo arrive, but we couldn't participate. And I remember thinking to myself - F that kid and his family. LOL Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 11/12/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: The New Australian Destert Fireball Network introduces itself: http://kuerzer.de/ADFN Best! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Hi Mike, I don't know, and actually it's not our cup of tea. Science costs. And cheaper than Antarctica it is most probably anyway. I'm only a layman, but at least I'm sponsoring the Australian network with the taxes on our meteorite sales. (Although I'm not fully convinced yet that Australia is a part of EU) The equipment and the vehicles of the searching team are very impressing. Makes me only a little aches and pains, if I remember that the time-honored European fireball network has severe difficulties to scrape together the 6000$, (the stations themselves are maintained by voluntary amateurs), which are the yearly costs to run it, since the German Space Agency has quit the financing. What I don't fully understand yet, is, that they caught 7 meteorite droppers, that they say, that they have an accuracy in calculating the strewnfield of about a square mile and that they cover a typically perfect search area, where meteorites are much more easier to be found, than on the terrain the other camera networks cover, but that they didn't went out to search for all these 7 falls (but only 2 times? If I read the page correctly?) and always only with maximum 8 people. The European fireball network uses a different method. I mean Mike, you know it by your own, Mifflin, Buzzard Coulee, Whetstone, Ash Creek, Park Forest - how many people and what for a manpower you need, to recover really fair amounts of a new fall (or a new fall at all). In Europe, to generate the manpower and manhours necessary, and simply because there are no funds, the network involves amateurs and private hunters in searching for possible new falls. Remember the greatest success, Neuschwanstein - there everyone, who wanted to search, was instructed with the map of the calculated strewnfield, and the 3 stones were only found, because dozens of people searched based on the data for 3 years. Also the main mass wouldn't have been recovered, if not an amateur could have made new calculations based on the data of the network. Also professional private hunters are allowed to have access to the data, and used them for Maribo e.g. LaPice was also solely a recovery of private hunters. And if you have in mind, Mike, Moss, Vilalbeto and so on - how small the tkws would be, if not private professionals and amateurs would have spent thousands of hours in the field! (Of course, that is and was all only possible, because we in Europe don't make such a drama about the legal restrictions like the Aussies do - meteorites are perhaps somewhat more important to us here than there). Don't know, whether I should, but perhaps... to give some numbers. A friend of mine is an excellent desert hunter. His average find rate over the years, when he was going alone, was 60kgs of new meteorites PER trip (of course with all find data) - and the complete costs per trip, hence travel, equipment etc. are always around 4,000$. So you see, now only theoretically and in n way emotionally, and keeping in mind, that the privateers have naturally a different perspective, a more results-oriented one, (more disclaimers necessary?) but... if one daffs possible ideological obstacles aside and if one thinks more practically, find-oriented, and applies the efficient method of involving trained expert hunters and amateurs, then the Australian desert fireball network has a HUGE potential!! But, their beer, as we say here. And don't forget, they seem to be still in the phase of building up that network. Let's see what the following years will bring. Rome wasn't built in one day. (Off now, have to generate more tax money, that they can go more often out to hunt their droppers :-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Galactic Stone Ironworks [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2010 14:11 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Well, at least nobody can spoil their little party. It reminds me of a rich kid who lives down the block, whose parents threw him an big extravagant birthday bash - but none of the poor kids in the neighborhood were invited. So we got hang around outside in the street and hear the fun without participating in it. We could watch the guests arrive, watch the clowns arrive, watch the petting zoo arrive, but we couldn't participate. And I remember thinking to myself - F that kid and his family. LOL Best regards, MikeG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
of the calculated strewnfield, and the 3 stones were only found, because dozens of people searched based on the data for 3 years. Also the main mass wouldn't have been recovered, if not an amateur could have made new calculations based on the data of the network. Also professional private hunters are allowed to have access to the data, and used them for Maribo e.g. LaPice was also solely a recovery of private hunters. And if you have in mind, Mike, Moss, Vilalbeto and so on - how small the tkws would be, if not private professionals and amateurs would have spent thousands of hours in the field! (Of course, that is and was all only possible, because we in Europe don't make such a drama about the legal restrictions like the Aussies do - meteorites are perhaps somewhat more important to us here than there). Don't know, whether I should, but perhaps... to give some numbers. A friend of mine is an excellent desert hunter. His average find rate over the years, when he was going alone, was 60kgs of new meteorites PER trip (of course with all find data) - and the complete costs per trip, hence travel, equipment etc. are always around 4,000$. So you see, now only theoretically and in n way emotionally, and keeping in mind, that the privateers have naturally a different perspective, a more results-oriented one, (more disclaimers necessary?) but... if one daffs possible ideological obstacles aside and if one thinks more practically, find-oriented, and applies the efficient method of involving trained expert hunters and amateurs, then the Australian desert fireball network has a HUGE potential!! But, their beer, as we say here. And don't forget, they seem to be still in the phase of building up that network. Let's see what the following years will bring. Rome wasn't built in one day. (Off now, have to generate more tax money, that they can go more often out to hunt their droppers :-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Galactic Stone Ironworks [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2010 14:11 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Well, at least nobody can spoil their little party. It reminds me of a rich kid who lives down the block, whose parents threw him an big extravagant birthday bash - but none of the poor kids in the neighborhood were invited. So we got hang around outside in the street and hear the fun without participating in it. We could watch the guests arrive, watch the clowns arrive, watch the petting zoo arrive, but we couldn't participate. And I remember thinking to myself - F that kid and his family. LOL Best regards, MikeG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Hi MikeG, Yah certainly, I was not so sure about the objectives of that project. I mean, could have been also to photograph meteors, hence observation only, but I checked the goals the Aussie network gave in the description of the project, where they successfully applied for 300,000GBP from the STFC for the maintainance of the stations and the recovery for the next 3 years (roughly 10,000$/month). (No worries, they have other grants too. I'm too lazy to check the other grants, someone from European net said, they got 1.5 million Euro from EU too - peanuts anyway.). And there is told, that indeed they want to recover meteorites by means of the stations. Quote: This technique has been employed a number of times over the last 50 years, all in temperate regions of the northern hemisphere, but although hundreds meteorite falls have been observed, only four were recovered. The poor success rate is down to the difficulty in recovering a small rock in an area of several square kilometres when there is significant undergrowth. Our solution was rather simple. Over the last few decades, tens of thousands of meteorites have been found in the world's deserts. Put a fireball network in a desert and it should be much easier samples. We have designed a fireball observatory that can operate automatically in the harsh environment of the Australian desert. Based on previous fieldwork in this area, looking for old weathered meteorites, we should have about a 70% chance of finding meteorites that we see land. So I was only thinking, what could help, to meet their goals and their predictions better. (Now they're still at 14% recovery rate and not at 70%, as they supposed they will achieve.) Especially, when they say on their homepage, that they can't go searching more often, because it's so expensive. Hence only for that project. To find fresh falls - as you know, Australia implemented the 1970ies UNESCO convention - commendation of the working group on meteorites of UNESCO was for fresh falls: Go and get it ASAP! - it's no good to let a fall first one or two years in desert before you search it. And to connect the finds with orbits calculated from the fireball tracks. Of course you're right else, Mike: Over the last few decades, tens of thousands of meteorites have been found in the world's deserts. Yes in the world's deserts - though they could have added also: but only in the Australian deserts not. Naturally, if you forbid the hunt or if you take any incentive for the people to search, you won't have meteorites. If it would be about meteorites only, the Aussies would simply have to liberate the hunting/ownership/export practice, maybe could introduce a split solution, and of course then the new finds would flow in to Perth and to the other institutes, for free (and of course at much lower costs, even when they would be partially purchased.) That really everyone knows. I guess Bevan Crew as well as you and me and any meteoricist too. But here I was thinking, that if you build up such a great project, you shouldn't stop just exactly before the last step! And we don't want, that in the end, the Australian network will have the same fate like the Prairie network. I think, they have to search more often or with more personnel - and if that is too expensive, they should find a solution, that others, who naturally are used to hunt more intensively and under more spartan conditions and who are simply the better hunters, could help them. In the deserts of Sahara, Oman, USA it works. Bt as told, Definitely not our cup of tea, we're no Aussies, nor are we scientists. Best! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Hi Martin and all, They can record the falls but no one is allowed to collect material unless it falls on private ground ;-) Then no export. Wonder how large the stations are in Australia?? Are they owned or do they rent the gound for the ranches from the government? --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Hi MikeG, Yah certainly, I was not so sure about the objectives of that project. I mean, could have been also to photograph meteors, hence observation only, but I checked the goals the Aussie network gave in the description of the project, where they successfully applied for 300,000GBP from the STFC for the maintainance of the stations and the recovery for the next 3 years (roughly 10,000$/month). (No worries, they have other grants too. I'm too lazy to check the other grants, someone from European net said, they got 1.5 million Euro from EU too - peanuts anyway.). And there is told, that indeed they want to recover meteorites by means of the stations. Quote: This technique has been employed a number of times over the last 50 years, all in temperate regions of the northern hemisphere, but although hundreds meteorite falls have been observed, only four were recovered. The poor success rate is down to the difficulty in recovering a small rock in an area of several square kilometres when there is significant undergrowth. Our solution was rather simple. Over the last few decades, tens of thousands of meteorites have been found in the world's deserts. Put a fireball network in a desert and it should be much easier samples. We have designed a fireball observatory that can operate automatically in the harsh environment of the Australian desert. Based on previous fieldwork in this area, looking for old weathered meteorites, we should have about a 70% chance of finding meteorites that we see land. So I was only thinking, what could help, to meet their goals and their predictions better. (Now they're still at 14% recovery rate and not at 70%, as they supposed they will achieve.) Especially, when they say on their homepage, that they can't go searching more often, because it's so expensive. Hence only for that project. To find fresh falls - as you know, Australia implemented the 1970ies UNESCO convention - commendation of the working group on meteorites of UNESCO was for fresh falls: Go and get it ASAP! - it's no good to let a fall first one or two years in desert before you search it. And to connect the finds with orbits calculated from the fireball tracks. Of course you're right else, Mike: Over the last few decades, tens of thousands of meteorites have been found in the world's deserts. Yes in the world's deserts - though they could have added also: but only in the Australian deserts not. Naturally, if you forbid the hunt or if you take any incentive for the people to search, you won't have meteorites. If it would be about meteorites only, the Aussies would simply have to liberate the hunting/ownership/export practice, maybe could introduce a split solution, and of course then the new finds would flow in to Perth and to the other institutes, for free (and of course at much lower costs, even when they would be partially purchased.) That really everyone knows. I guess Bevan Crew as well as you and me and any meteoricist too. But here I was thinking, that if you build up such a great project, you shouldn't stop just exactly before the last step! And we don't want, that in the end, the Australian network will have the same fate like the Prairie network. I think, they have to search more often or with more personnel - and if that is too expensive, they should find a solution, that others, who naturally are used to hunt more intensively and under more spartan conditions and who are simply the better hunters, could help them. In the deserts of Sahara, Oman, USA it works. Bt as told, Definitely not our cup of tea, we're no Aussies, nor are we scientists. Best! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Nja...Al, there is room for improvements. Their names are Brix Hopper, I tell it for the rhyme they found us each a dropper and had us cost no dime. Lalala... I mean, if two dogs are more successful than 8 or more trained scientists with all the fancy equipment, then there is certainly still some more room for improvements left. Also I think, one shouldn't believe too much in certain laws, I don't think, that after the big lonely meteoricist descended from the Ayers Rock with the tablets of stone, that these laws are necessarily made for eternity. Probably it's only a question of generations. I mean they had there now fun to test it for a long while, they saw, that it wasn't only good for nothing, but made everything remarkably worse. The laws there are simply outdated. We shall overcome. ;-) Martin PS. I fear e.g. in Western Australia it currently even doesn't help, if a meteorite is found on private ground. (Perhaps an old deep-rooted reflex of European Middle Ages, that they might think, that meteorites are so devilish and dangerous, that they better shouldn't be found, and if it happens though, that they have to be secured by the authorities, to avoid damage... but I'm no ethnologist) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitt Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2010 19:16 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Hi Martin and all, They can record the falls but no one is allowed to collect material unless it falls on private ground ;-) Then no export. Wonder how large the stations are in Australia?? Are they owned or do they rent the gound for the ranches from the government? --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Hi Martin, I would think that a government-funded (or grant-funded, or funds-limited) operation could utilize other official resources for the effort to find meteorites. For example, if Australia does not want to encourage private participation to increase the number of people searching (and finds), then perhaps one could enlist the help of school children. This has been done numerous times, to good effect, around the world - in India, in China, in the US, and elsewhere. It doesn't take a scientist to spot a meteorite in a strewnfield. An 8-year old, with training, can walk a grid and find meteorites. The child would call out to an adult, who would them come over, log the find in-situ, and congratulate the lucky finder. A classroom of science-minded kids would get a field-trip out of the boring classroom, get exposed to nature, and have a positive experience which would educate and entertain. Granted, the desert is not the best place to bring a classroom full of children, but the point is still valid. A mock hunt could be done on school grounds that simulates the conditions of a true field hunt. When they get older, perhaps in high school, they could go on a real field trip to the desert with full supervision and guidance. This would provide a large number of boots on the ground to cover grids, and it would be cheaper for the government (or institution) than hiring private contractors or giving up a portion of the finds to private hunters. It's why they send kids door to door selling candy bars - it's free labor. ;) I'd much rather see the participation of private hunters, like many on this list, than see meteorites go undiscovered in the field. Sure, it can be argued that they will last for thousands of years before complete terrestrialization, but is not a fresh meteorite more valuable to science? Imagine, an All Star global meteorite hunt. Wherever a meteorite has fallen, a roster of meteoritical personalities of repute would descend upon the area. To map, grid, log and recover the specimens. Team Arnold. Team Hupe. Team Farmer. And so on and so on - many more familiar names with a long history of success hunting meteorites. All working in tandem with a common goal - to recover meteorites. Instead, we see laws where this kind of participation and cooperation is discouraged or outlawed. :( Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 11/12/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Nja...Al, there is room for improvements. Their names are Brix Hopper, I tell it for the rhyme they found us each a dropper and had us cost no dime. Lalala... I mean, if two dogs are more successful than 8 or more trained scientists with all the fancy equipment, then there is certainly still some more room for improvements left. Also I think, one shouldn't believe too much in certain laws, I don't think, that after the big lonely meteoricist descended from the Ayers Rock with the tablets of stone, that these laws are necessarily made for eternity. Probably it's only a question of generations. I mean they had there now fun to test it for a long while, they saw, that it wasn't only good for nothing, but made everything remarkably worse. The laws there are simply outdated. We shall overcome. ;-) Martin PS. I fear e.g. in Western Australia it currently even doesn't help, if a meteorite is found on private ground. (Perhaps an old deep-rooted reflex of European Middle Ages, that they might think, that meteorites are so devilish and dangerous, that they better shouldn't be found, and if it happens though, that they have to be secured by the authorities, to avoid damage... but I'm no ethnologist) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitt Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2010 19:16 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Hi Martin and all, They can record the falls but no one is allowed to collect material unless it falls on private ground ;-) Then no export. Wonder how large the stations are in Australia?? Are they owned or do they rent the gound for the ranches from the government? --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Martin wrote: I mean, if two dogs are more successful than 8 or more trained scientists with all the fancy equipment, then there is certainly still some more room for improvements left. Here's a few of the real hunters in the Outback: Determined Dingo, I'll sniff it out! http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/dingo.jpg Casual Camels, I wonder if the craters filled with water? http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/camel.jpg The Australian Hopper, The meteorites are in my pouch! http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/kangaroo.jpg Lucky the Lizard, Which way do I go...? http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/lizard1.jpg Another helpful lizard, I think I saw it land over there! http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/lizard2.jpg Hey guys, can I hunt too?! http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/lizard3.jpg Were these alien pods left by a carbonaceous chondrite? http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/alienpods.jpg Evidence from an early impact http://www.lunarrock.com/Australia/australiaite1.jpg Friday Fun, enjoy! Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Nja...Al, there is room for improvements. Their names are Brix Hopper, I tell it for the rhyme they found us each a dropper and had us cost no dime. Lalala... I mean, if two dogs are more successful than 8 or more trained scientists with all the fancy equipment, then there is certainly still some more room for improvements left. Also I think, one shouldn't believe too much in certain laws, I don't think, that after the big lonely meteoricist descended from the Ayers Rock with the tablets of stone, that these laws are necessarily made for eternity. Probably it's only a question of generations. I mean they had there now fun to test it for a long while, they saw, that it wasn't only good for nothing, but made everything remarkably worse. The laws there are simply outdated. We shall overcome. ;-) Martin PS. I fear e.g. in Western Australia it currently even doesn't help, if a meteorite is found on private ground. (Perhaps an old deep-rooted reflex of European Middle Ages, that they might think, that meteorites are so devilish and dangerous, that they better shouldn't be found, and if it happens though, that they have to be secured by the authorities, to avoid damage... but I'm no ethnologist) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitt Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2010 19:16 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Hi Martin and all, They can record the falls but no one is allowed to collect material unless it falls on private ground ;-) Then no export. Wonder how large the stations are in Australia?? Are they owned or do they rent the gound for the ranches from the government? --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3251 - Release Date: 11/11/10 14:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II
Yah Mike, in Australia, unfortunately, we will have to wait a generation longer. Look what the meteorite grand ayatollah over all Australia had written: Unlike Antarctica, where meteorite recovery has been almost exclusively by teams from recognized research institutions, the 'hot' deserts of the world have been open to all collectors. During the 1980s, in parallel with heightened interest in space science, the number of private meteorite collectors throughout the world increased dramatically. The number of collector-dealers who acquire meteorites for re-sale also increased. Some dealers have made large sums of money from meteorites collected from deserts, and this success has sparked off something like of a 'gold rush' mentality amongst other collectors who had previously no interest in meteorites. Many of the collectors and dealers have operated anonymously, so their role in the history of meteorite collection from desert cannot be written. Although there is no doubt that a very large number of meteorites have been brought to science, dubious practices by some collectors have jeopardized potential scientific gain. To translate it into a more simple English: Dealers, collectors, hunters are a Pack and a Pest. Strangely enough, he bemoans in the same article, that nor lunar or Martian has been found in the Nullarbor region. So he seems not to know, what he wants. Even more strange is, that he learned and studied his profession in London, and that he was long years at the BMNH, where so many specimens of the collection stem from dealers, collectors, hunters and where the acquisition of meteorites from them, was over almost 200 years THE method of enlarging the collection. I know, Mike, that all is very unsatisfying, because it is so nonscientific and unnecessary, also to a degree libelous, but I fear, that we still have to be patient and have to wait for a new generation of Australian meteoricists. We're not allowed to say anything. Well - I'm indeed s old already, that I know and witnessed, what for a great meteorite nation Australia still was in the 1980s. They brought everything down with their laws, while in all other desert countries we had such an upswing! Today Australia is playing in the league of small humid nations. Whether in our live-times, hey Mike you're only 1 year younger than me, we still will see, that Australia will turn back to normality - I simply don't know it. So what. The meteorite doesn't care, whether it (he, she?) is found. Only some meteoricists and collectors do. (hopefully one day also in Australia again). Wintertime is coming. Good that Greg posted some fine pics. Else the topic would be too sad. We didn't find any meteorites but Geoff and Alex found tektites, Geoff also found a blue tongue lizard and Erika and Kath found a snake (!) Nor did I, I found two black cats today (but I find them every day), a spotted woodpecker I saw and a hedgehog at night and I found a sock, I was missing for quite a while. Under the carpet it was. (must have been the cat..). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2010 20:23 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pros at Work II Hi Martin, I would think that a government-funded (or grant-funded, or funds-limited) operation could utilize other official resources for the effort to find meteorites. For example, if Australia does not want to encourage private participation to increase the number of people searching (and finds), then perhaps one could enlist the help of school children. This has been done numerous times, to good effect, around the world - in India, in China, in the US, and elsewhere. It doesn't take a scientist to spot a meteorite in a strewnfield. An 8-year old, with training, can walk a grid and find meteorites. The child would call out to an adult, who would them come over, log the find in-situ, and congratulate the lucky finder. A classroom of science-minded kids would get a field-trip out of the boring classroom, get exposed to nature, and have a positive experience which would educate and entertain. Granted, the desert is not the best place to bring a classroom full of children, but the point is still valid. A mock hunt could be done on school grounds that simulates the conditions of a true field hunt. When they get older, perhaps in high school, they could go on a real field trip to the desert with full supervision and guidance. This would provide a large number of boots on the ground to cover grids, and it would be cheaper for the government (or institution) than hiring private contractors or giving up a portion of the finds to private hunters. It's why they send kids door to door selling candy bars - it's free labor. ;) I'd much rather see the participation of private hunters
