Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Hola Johnny Q, You may be right, but as large as that piece was, it might have taken a couple of years or so for it to be washed or eroded out. But you are right, it was found near the top of a moundjust slightly down from the top. Even one fragment was found under a cow pie. ;-) The miniscule 69 gms. I found that day (largest fragment 43 gms...one of my better days), just didn't seem worth fussing over after Larry's whopper Holy Grail find. ;-) Congrats to Larrydon't know how you did it, but you did it. Dave JKGwilliam wrote: Bernd, Larry, Maria and List, Here's some more food for thought concerning the Holbrook strewnfield. One of my best friends, Dave Andrews, lives in Holbrook and has hunted the strewnfield hundreds of times. He was Larry and Maria when Larry made his find of a lifetime. Dave and I talked on the phone while the three of them were still out in the field, and Dave told me it was found in an area that many of us had been over dozens of times. How could that be? Over the years, Dave has noted that wind and water erosion probably come into play. After a good wind or rain storm, artifacts ( indian pottery shards) and meteorites become exposed. They seem to appear in places where they weren't just days before. In actuality, they were there all along but were hidden below a thin layer of sand. Anyone who has ever hunter there has noticed that there are small hillocks of sand mounded up around the bases of some of the indigenous shrubs. My guess is that once these shrubs die and are blown away by the winds (which can last for days and reach speeds of 50 MPH and more) the sand moves on without the shrubs there to hold it in place. Several years ago, Dave, John Blennert and I were hunting in Holbrook. While walking along with Dave, he bent over and picked up a small complete stone of about 2 grams. It was perched atop a small column of soil very much like a golf ball sitting on a tee. The soil (mostly sand) around it had blown away leaving the small stone nearly half an inch above the surrounding soil. Best, John Gwilliam At 01:09 PM 2/12/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Larry, Maria, and List, First of all, of course, sincere congratulations! They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. .. which should remind us all of Bob Haag's famous words: The key is to get out there and look for them. Usually some pieces were missed in the initial search. But: I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. .. which shows how difficult it can be, even for experienced meteorite hunters like Ruben Garcia. .. which should not discourage anyone willing to search the strewnfield again and again, even though Foote (no, not Gary ;-) remarked in his pre- liminary note on the Holbrook shower in 1912: the field is now pretty well cleaned up. Hmm! If he had known what he didn't know then, ... he was wrong! Here is one of the die-hard observations from Foote's notes: One piece larger than an orange fell into a tree in a yard at Aztec cutting the limb off slick and clean and falling to the ground, and when picked up was almost red-hot. Von Achen, who saw them fall, reported that they were too hot to pick up. Two accounts state that they became lighter in color after cooling. According to Foote's notes, the ellipsoidal strewnfield extended west-east but one question has not yet been answered satisfactorily: Were the stones indiscriminately spread over the ground, or were they found sorted according to size (and weight)? How do Larry's find of a lifetime and Maria's finds fit into this puzzle? Happy to own an 8.3-gram individual (label no. 331) purchased from the Zeitschels in 1987 and a 0.45-gram thin platelet, Bernd P.S.: Please, don't forget to include the Branch family in your thoughts and your prayers ! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Hello from the field, after being blasted out of Holbrook yesterday morning. I can say that two days ago in the Holbrook strewn field, I was camping in the middle of it, which is basically an erroded shrub, dry lake mud flat. It was drizzling all day long, making a wicked cold burn, but other than that and all the mud cakes on my sneakers, it was a fine day for hunting. I was caught rather far away from my truck after spiraling around my well-worked strewn field base and a nice juicy rainstorm came rolling down the plains. I kept hunting until thoroughly soaked, cold and then remembering that I was parked in a mud flat. It was pretty comical to run all the way back jumping from errosion cone to errosion cone in this alluvial mess where it looks like mostly dried sagebrush type vegetation, and the mud on the sneakers became ruddy sliding disks the sizes of tennis rackets inviting a slip landing on the rump. The camp and vehicle was in the middle of a lake now, but luck was with me I got some new tires. I did make it out, and now am reflecting on the comments in this message by John - which are all very reasonable. One pleasant side effect was plenty of time to hurridly contemplate a run clear across the strewn field during the rain. First the water puddled in the low spots, but as in any dry lake type plain, it then started flowing. Holbrook is like a sandy beach with dunes and weak root systems in scattered bush holding together for its life. This flowing when wet in the silt and clay continually shifts the sands and the clays, which one can see evidence of cracking. The cracks themselves in drying areas can be a couple of cm's thick easily where all kinds of grapeshot meteorites and a myriad of stones can fall and get recycled to the surface. Even a big rock can easily get silt covered, and depending where it is, hide until its predestined lucky finder walks up to it. As to the big hole, I stumbled across it a day earlier. I had parked about 125 meters from it without having the slightest idea of its whereabouts, nor actually caring too much since I was out to make history, not record it. Also in the vicinity were a duo of cool hunters - Ruben (who looked like a bad ninja on a quadrimoto) and Earl (who looked like Ghost Rider). I found three tiny specks of fragments left in what I thought to be and the fellow hunters confrmed to be that unique Holbrook space rock rich uric color, so unless someone is playing a joke, I can personally confirm that the big hole had meteorite residue in it. It was on the corner of an errosion cone, near an active arroyo and where lots of water flowed during rains - so it is easy to imagine what happened in this case. As John mentioned and I also did above...it was a lot like the dunes at the high tide line of a Florida or Venetian beach Larry Luck hit the jackpot, but after spending some time there and getting all muddy again, it was time to move on. There is more to be found, but Holbrook for me was not as beautiful as other strewn fields, suffering a bit from the taming of the west as a strewn field of garbage in places. I did see the main mass of all the little Holbrooks on several ocassions. It was a very old and big desert hare. I found a fresh dime and a nickel which excited meteorite hunters no doubt had lost, plus a very old marble that maybe Nininger lost early on. And there was a coyote's tail and the tailfeather of a blue bird, most probably a common jay. Best wishes, Doug -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find Bernd, Larry, Maria and List, Here's some more food for thought concerning the Holbrook strewnfield. One of my best friends, Dave Andrews, lives in Holbrook and has hunted the strewnfield hundreds of times. He was Larry and Maria when Larry made his find of a lifetime. Dave and I talked on the phone while the three of them were still out in the field, and Dave told me it was found in an area that many of us had been over dozens of times. How could that be? Over the years, Dave has noted that wind and water erosion probably come into play. After a good wind or rain storm, artifacts ( indian pottery shards) and meteorites become exposed. They seem to appear in places where they weren't just days before. In actuality, they were there all along but were hidden below a thin layer of sand. Anyone who has ever hunter there has noticed that there are small hillocks of sand mounded up around the bases of some of the indigenous shrubs. My guess is that once these shrubs die and are blown away by the winds (which can last for days and reach speeds of 50 MPH and more) the sand moves on without the shrubs there to hold it in place. Several years ago, Dave, John Blennert and I were hunting
[meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Thanks to John Gwilliam for posting his observations from previous years experiences at Holbrook. Similiar observations have been repeatably made at other strewn fields in the SW USA. Those who have had the benefit of being able to return to strewn fields year after year (or even at different seaons of the year), have been able to observe the long-term changes, as well as, the seasonal fluctuations. Those that have made subsequent finds on previously searched surfaces have seen the evidence of gradual deflation, or in the case of seasonal changes, have witnessed surfaces that alternate between being buried and then being exposed again. Those people know full well how presumptive the phrase the field is now pretty well cleaned up can be. So Ruben, don't be so hard on yourself. Larry Atkin's recent find may not even have been exposed on the surface at the time you were searching. But regarding the 21 fragments that were found just last weekend by that dynamic father and son duo of Erik and Ben Fisler, now there you can make a case that these were missed by all of the hunters from the previous weekend. But then again, we just had a field report by Mexico Doug about all the rain he recently encountered at Holbrook. Again, timing is everything. So, unless it can be proven that these have always been exposed on the surface, it would still be very presumptive to say that those 21 pieces, or even Larry Atkin's find, were missed by ALL the previous hunters of the Holbrook strewnfield. Congratulations to all of the finders of the recently found Holbrook meteorites. Your timing is impeccable. :-) Bob V. - Original Message - [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find JKGwilliam h3chondrite at cox.net Mon Feb 12 17:03:22 EST 2007 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find * Next message: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find Bernd, Larry, Maria and List, Here's some more food for thought concerning the Holbrook strewnfield. One of my best friends, Dave Andrews, lives in Holbrook and has hunted the strewnfield hundreds of times. He was Larry and Maria when Larry made his find of a lifetime. Dave and I talked on the phone while the three of them were still out in the field, and Dave told me it was found in an area that many of us had been over dozens of times. How could that be? Over the years, Dave has noted that wind and water erosion probably come into play. After a good wind or rain storm, artifacts ( indian pottery shards) and meteorites become exposed. They seem to appear in places where they weren't just days before. In actuality, they were there all along but were hidden below a thin layer of sand. Anyone who has ever hunted there has noticed that there are small hillocks of sand mounded up around the bases of some of the indigenous shrubs. My guess is that once these shrubs die and are blown away by the winds (which can last for days and reach speeds of 50 MPH and more) the sand moves on without the shrubs there to hold it in place. Several years ago, Dave, John Blennert and I were hunting in Holbrook. While walking along with Dave, he bent over and picked up a small complete stone of about 2 grams. It was perched atop a small column of soil very much like a golf ball sitting on a tee. The soil (mostly sand) around it had blown away leaving the small stone nearly half an inch above the surrounding soil. Best, John Gwilliam -- At 01:09 PM 2/12/2007, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: Hello Larry, Maria, and List, First of all, of course, sincere congratulations! They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. .. which should remind us all of Bob Haag's famous words: The key is to get out there and look for them. Usually some pieces were missed in the initial search. But: I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. .. which shows how difficult it can be, even for experienced meteorite hunters like Ruben Garcia. .. which should not discourage anyone willing to search the strewnfield again and again, even though Foote (no, not Gary ;-) remarked in his preliminary note on the Holbrook shower in 1912: the field is now pretty well cleaned up. Hmm! If he had known what he didn't know then, ... he was wrong! + - End of Original Messages -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Hello Larry, Maria, and List, First of all, of course, sincere congratulations! They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. .. which should remind us all of Bob Haag's famous words: The key is to get out there and look for them. Usually some pieces were missed in the initial search. But: I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. .. which shows how difficult it can be, even for experienced meteorite hunters like Ruben Garcia. .. which should not discourage anyone willing to search the strewnfield again and again, even though Foote (no, not Gary ;-) remarked in his pre- liminary note on the Holbrook shower in 1912: the field is now pretty well cleaned up. Hmm! If he had known what he didn't know then, ... he was wrong! Here is one of the die-hard observations from Foote's notes: One piece larger than an orange fell into a tree in a yard at Aztec cutting the limb off slick and clean and falling to the ground, and when picked up was almost red-hot. Von Achen, who saw them fall, reported that they were too hot to pick up. Two accounts state that they became lighter in color after cooling. According to Foote's notes, the ellipsoidal strewnfield extended west-east but one question has not yet been answered satisfactorily: Were the stones indiscriminately spread over the ground, or were they found sorted according to size (and weight)? How do Larry's find of a lifetime and Maria's finds fit into this puzzle? Happy to own an 8.3-gram individual (label no. 331) purchased from the Zeitschels in 1987 and a 0.45-gram thin platelet, Bernd P.S.: Please, don't forget to include the Branch family in your thoughts and your prayers ! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Larry Atkin's Recent Holbrook Find
Bernd, Larry, Maria and List, Here's some more food for thought concerning the Holbrook strewnfield. One of my best friends, Dave Andrews, lives in Holbrook and has hunted the strewnfield hundreds of times. He was Larry and Maria when Larry made his find of a lifetime. Dave and I talked on the phone while the three of them were still out in the field, and Dave told me it was found in an area that many of us had been over dozens of times. How could that be? Over the years, Dave has noted that wind and water erosion probably come into play. After a good wind or rain storm, artifacts ( indian pottery shards) and meteorites become exposed. They seem to appear in places where they weren't just days before. In actuality, they were there all along but were hidden below a thin layer of sand. Anyone who has ever hunter there has noticed that there are small hillocks of sand mounded up around the bases of some of the indigenous shrubs. My guess is that once these shrubs die and are blown away by the winds (which can last for days and reach speeds of 50 MPH and more) the sand moves on without the shrubs there to hold it in place. Several years ago, Dave, John Blennert and I were hunting in Holbrook. While walking along with Dave, he bent over and picked up a small complete stone of about 2 grams. It was perched atop a small column of soil very much like a golf ball sitting on a tee. The soil (mostly sand) around it had blown away leaving the small stone nearly half an inch above the surrounding soil. Best, John Gwilliam At 01:09 PM 2/12/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Larry, Maria, and List, First of all, of course, sincere congratulations! They came to the Southwest and did an amazing job, finding meteorites at Holbrook, Franconia and Gold Basin. .. which should remind us all of Bob Haag's famous words: The key is to get out there and look for them. Usually some pieces were missed in the initial search. But: I had been within 50 feet of Larry's find many, many times and driven by it many more. .. which shows how difficult it can be, even for experienced meteorite hunters like Ruben Garcia. .. which should not discourage anyone willing to search the strewnfield again and again, even though Foote (no, not Gary ;-) remarked in his pre- liminary note on the Holbrook shower in 1912: the field is now pretty well cleaned up. Hmm! If he had known what he didn't know then, ... he was wrong! Here is one of the die-hard observations from Foote's notes: One piece larger than an orange fell into a tree in a yard at Aztec cutting the limb off slick and clean and falling to the ground, and when picked up was almost red-hot. Von Achen, who saw them fall, reported that they were too hot to pick up. Two accounts state that they became lighter in color after cooling. According to Foote's notes, the ellipsoidal strewnfield extended west-east but one question has not yet been answered satisfactorily: Were the stones indiscriminately spread over the ground, or were they found sorted according to size (and weight)? How do Larry's find of a lifetime and Maria's finds fit into this puzzle? Happy to own an 8.3-gram individual (label no. 331) purchased from the Zeitschels in 1987 and a 0.45-gram thin platelet, Bernd P.S.: Please, don't forget to include the Branch family in your thoughts and your prayers ! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
