Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[MEM via Meteorite-list]

Hello Glyn-- Giving your claim all advantages with a cursory review: Using your 
0.22 cubic meter figure and putting in the highest measured martian density of 
3.48 gr per cc,   I get 76kg launch weight and 38 Kg ( assuming 50% ablation by 
weight) landing under perfect conditions. My max weight from the data i did 
have in my head,  28-32kg was not far off but not to the order of magnitude 
difference-- it still does not add up to 800lbs.The total weight is 
immaterial in one sense as to date there have been no "meteorite showers" of 
martian material.  The chaos of an impact, in my mind, would not produce a 
coherent stream of meteoroids which would remain together for the several 
hundred thousand up to millions orbits it takes for martian material to arrive 
on earth.  Paired finds are consistent with atmospheric breakup supporting a 
single original mass.

I saw your extensive mineralogy and you may in fact have a meteorite-- or 
impactiite but, I did not see where the mineral composition nor noble gases 
plotted amongst plots of the entire range of meteorites.  I don't know who the 
keeper of data is for those plots but you could still plot yours on the master 
graph.  (I may have lots of stray data in my head but that isn't one of them).

I think that the way you seem to misdirect technical answers and the way what 
you do claim what you do, is buried amongst irrelevant comparisons that lend 
skepticism to your report thus far.  May I say that much of your response is 
filled with irrelevant comparisons and non sequitur conclusions.  Apollo rocks 
have nothing to do with validating your claims.

If I unserstand, you did some of the mineralogy and sent some off for analysis, 
but you won't name or revel any professional meteorist nor geo-chemist nor 
anyone else accredited who has either reviewed your work or through their own 
study.  Yes or no? If so, what prevents you from releasing it?  What is the 
shock stage if you know it?

Elton





From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: Met-List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery



Met List,


I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need to 
stop. I will never respond in kind.

Do you all not know the Met List policies?

General List Policies (i.e. The Rules)

1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites.
2. Be courteous and professional at all times.
3. No Personal Attacks.

...

I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. I'm 
just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at times. 
I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of scientists and 
technicians I worked with were very professional and are wonderful people to 
work with.

First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you are 
incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a 
diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can 
launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is greater than the mass 
of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the Apollo missions, which is 
approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a single mass but many fragments 
from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that was impact ejected/launched off the 
surface of Mars, or just below the surface of Mars. The largest masses of the 
fragments are larger than Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from Mars.

See pg.337

Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf


You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event within 
our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It is very 
true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in our nation 
The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The Golden Rule is to 
treat others as you would like to be treated. Geologist Joe De Kehoe gets the 
whole story very right. I would recommend buying his book, The Silence of the 
Sun. Unfair and unjust laws are simply no law at all. It's lawlessness. There 
is a higher law of fairness and justice. You can not ignore the original 
discoverer. This World Record Mars Discovery will benefit the People. It's the 
People's National treasure. The People are to benefit.  I've said that all 
along and will continue to do so. I'm doing the right thing.

I know a greater law ...

Psalm 24:1 NLT
"A psalm of David. The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it. The world and 
all its people belong to him."


Geologist Joe De Kehoe writes the entire story:...
Chapter One, The Old Woman Meteorite, The story and the controversy t

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Paul Gessler via Meteorite-list]

Count Deiro

Sir, you have offended my pc sensitivity!
The politically correct terminology should be:
(more fruit cakes than a Gerperson bakery)

Paul G






-Original Message- 
From: Count Deiro via Meteorite-list

Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:39 AM
To: MEM ; Ann Cain ; Met-List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Hi All,

You gotta love the ListIt produces more fruit cakes than a German 
bakery.


Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 MetSoc



-Original Message-

From: MEM via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Jan 16, 2016 12:22 AM
To: Ann Cain <gfn...@hotmail.com>, Met-List 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>

Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Hello Glyn-- Giving your claim all advantages with a cursory review: Using 
your 0.22 cubic meter figure and putting in the highest measured martian 
density of 3.48 gr per cc,   I get 76kg launch weight and 38 Kg ( assuming 
50% ablation by weight) landing under perfect conditions. My max weight 
from the data i did have in my head,  28-32kg was not far off but not to 
the order of magnitude difference-- it still does not add up to 800lbs. 
The total weight is immaterial in one sense as to date there have been no 
"meteorite showers" of martian material.  The chaos of an impact, in my 
mind, would not produce a coherent stream of meteoroids which would remain 
together for the several hundred thousand up to millions orbits it takes 
for martian material to arrive on earth.  Paired finds are consistent with 
atmospheric breakup supporting a single original mass.


I saw your extensive mineralogy and you may in fact have a meteorite-- or 
impactiite but, I did not see where the mineral composition nor noble gases 
plotted amongst plots of the entire range of meteorites.  I don't know who 
the keeper of data is for those plots but you could still plot yours on the 
master graph.  (I may have lots of stray data in my head but that isn't one 
of them).


I think that the way you seem to misdirect technical answers and the way 
what you do claim what you do, is buried amongst irrelevant comparisons 
that lend skepticism to your report thus far.  May I say that much of your 
response is filled with irrelevant comparisons and non sequitur 
conclusions.  Apollo rocks have nothing to do with validating your claims.


If I unserstand, you did some of the mineralogy and sent some off for 
analysis, but you won't name or revel any professional meteorist nor 
geo-chemist nor anyone else accredited who has either reviewed your work or 
through their own study.  Yes or no? If so, what prevents you from 
releasing it?  What is the shock stage if you know it?


Elton





From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: Met-List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery



Met List,


I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need 
to stop. I will never respond in kind.


Do you all not know the Met List policies?

General List Policies (i.e. The Rules)

   1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites.
   2. Be courteous and professional at all times.
   3. No Personal Attacks.

...

I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. 
I'm just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at 
times. I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of 
scientists and technicians I worked with were very professional and are 
wonderful people to work with.


First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you 
are incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of 
Mars to a diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique 
impacts they can launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is 
greater than the mass of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the 
Apollo missions, which is approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a 
single mass but many fragments from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that 
was impact ejected/launched off the surface of Mars, or just below the 
surface of Mars. The largest masses of the fragments are larger than 
Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from Mars.


See pg.337

Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf


You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event 
within our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It 
is very true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in 
our nation The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The 
Golden Rule is to treat others as you wou

[meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Ann Cain via Meteorite-list]

From: Ann Cain
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 12:06 PM
To: MEM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Elton,

Please read the research article below. Here I posted a link to it again:


See pg.337

Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf


I said, " It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a 
diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can 
launch off the surface solid."

Note paraphrasing the article, that it is possible for impact craters on Mars 
up to approx. 50.0km in diameter to have the kinetic energy from an impactor to 
eject Mars material up to about 22.0m in diameter. Re-read that. That is 22.0 
meters in diameter!

These Mars meteoroids then can orbit the Sun for perhaps millions of years 
crossing Earth's orbital path and then fall into Earth's gravity well, there 
upon hitting the top of Earth's  atmosphere incandescencing  becoming a meteor, 
fragmenting, shattering, forming fusion crust, regmaglypts, orientating, flow 
drip-lines, fusion crust melt accumulate etc. etc. etc. (all the tell-tale 
signs of meteorites) falling and raining to the surface of the Earth. I know 
for a fact that this can happen. It happened at least once. Lol. I know because 
I found a Mars meteorite discovery site. It's my best hypothesis that with this 
Mars discovery meteorite find site that its been sitting on the surface of the 
Earth for about 13,000 years or less, from environmental clues, which I will 
not discuss. However, terrestrial age date tests need to been done of course. I 
bet I'm darn close to guessing the terrestrial age. Over the last 4.54B years 
this has probably happened many times from Mars to Earth (and 
 some from Earth to Mars) as Earth continues to accrete but today at a much 
slower rate of mass influx.

The well known space artist, Donald E. Davis working for NASA at the time got 
it right ... note the heterogeneous igneous rock mass ejected from Mars falling 
to Earth. These masses can be big! He nailed it.

http://gfoundit-mars.com/MarsImpactEjection2.jpg



The questions you ask I answer in my evidence articles. I'm not sharing all of 
the data from ICP-MS whole rock oxide and trace mineral analysis except for 
what values I have shared already. There are many more discoveries with this 
data to make. Science believe it or not is competitive just like sports. I get 
that and understand that. The analysis was done by a very well known 
Mining/Scientific research lab in North America that is used by many university 
Geology departments. They have abundant meteorite lab analysis experience. They 
do excellent work and they know how to keep the data from any discovery secret 
and proprietary as they should. They do excellent professional work, they are 
ethical,  and they don't play games. With this data I know how to do many of 
the geochemistry analysis measurements. They are all repeatable.

I'm more than willing to share all this data with a University meteorite 
analysis lab that wants to re-confirm that they are indeed meteorites, the 
petrology rock type, and the Parent Body of origin. If they are willing to do 
honest pure science research and no games, that they consider and agree that I 
have a right to keep the discovery site secret, that this discovery is my 
intellectual property, until negotiations and contracts are agreed upon and 
signed, then we can work together.

The scientific world is going to get the material, and not just some of it, 
most of it. The monetary reward goes to The People.



Glyn




From: MEM <mstrema...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 3:22 AM
To: Ann Cain; Met-List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Hello Glyn-- Giving your claim all advantages with a cursory review: Using your 
0.22 cubic meter figure and putting in the highest measured martian density of 
3.48 gr per cc,   I get 76kg launch weight and 38 Kg ( assuming 50% ablation by 
weight) landing under perfect conditions. My max weight from the data i did 
have in my head,  28-32kg was not far off but not to the order of magnitude 
difference-- it still does not add up to 800lbs.The total weight is 
immaterial in one sense as to date there have been no "meteorite showers" of 
martian material.  The chaos of an impact, in my mind, would not produce a 
coherent stream of meteoroids which would remain together for the several 
hundred thousand up to millions orbits it takes for martian material to arrive 
on earth.  Paired finds are consistent with atmospheric breakup supporting a 
single original mass.

I saw your extensive mineralogy and you may in fact have a meteorite-- or 
impactiite but, I did not see where the min

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Count Deiro via Meteorite-list]

Hi All,

You gotta love the ListIt produces more fruit cakes than a German bakery. 

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 MetSoc



-Original Message-
>From: MEM via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Jan 16, 2016 12:22 AM
>To: Ann Cain <gfn...@hotmail.com>, Met-List 
><meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
>Hello Glyn-- Giving your claim all advantages with a cursory review: Using 
>your 0.22 cubic meter figure and putting in the highest measured martian 
>density of 3.48 gr per cc,   I get 76kg launch weight and 38 Kg ( assuming 50% 
>ablation by weight) landing under perfect conditions. My max weight from the 
>data i did have in my head,  28-32kg was not far off but not to the order of 
>magnitude difference-- it still does not add up to 800lbs.The total weight 
>is immaterial in one sense as to date there have been no "meteorite showers" 
>of martian material.  The chaos of an impact, in my mind, would not produce a 
>coherent stream of meteoroids which would remain together for the several 
>hundred thousand up to millions orbits it takes for martian material to arrive 
>on earth.  Paired finds are consistent with atmospheric breakup supporting a 
>single original mass.
>
>I saw your extensive mineralogy and you may in fact have a meteorite-- or 
>impactiite but, I did not see where the mineral composition nor noble gases 
>plotted amongst plots of the entire range of meteorites.  I don't know who the 
>keeper of data is for those plots but you could still plot yours on the master 
>graph.  (I may have lots of stray data in my head but that isn't one of them).
>
>I think that the way you seem to misdirect technical answers and the way what 
>you do claim what you do, is buried amongst irrelevant comparisons that lend 
>skepticism to your report thus far.  May I say that much of your response is 
>filled with irrelevant comparisons and non sequitur conclusions.  Apollo rocks 
>have nothing to do with validating your claims.
>
>If I unserstand, you did some of the mineralogy and sent some off for 
>analysis, but you won't name or revel any professional meteorist nor 
>geo-chemist nor anyone else accredited who has either reviewed your work or 
>through their own study.  Yes or no? If so, what prevents you from releasing 
>it?  What is the shock stage if you know it?
>
>Elton
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>To: Met-List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
>Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
>
>
>Met List,
>
>
>I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need to 
>stop. I will never respond in kind.
>
>Do you all not know the Met List policies?
>
>General List Policies (i.e. The Rules)
>
>1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites.
>2. Be courteous and professional at all times.
>3. No Personal Attacks.
>
>...
>
>I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. I'm 
>just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at times. 
>I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of scientists and 
>technicians I worked with were very professional and are wonderful people to 
>work with.
>
>First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you are 
>incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a 
>diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can 
>launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is greater than the mass 
>of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the Apollo missions, which is 
>approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a single mass but many fragments 
>from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that was impact ejected/launched off 
>the surface of Mars, or just below the surface of Mars. The largest masses of 
>the fragments are larger than Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from 
>Mars.
>
>See pg.337
>
>Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
>http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf
>
>
>You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event within 
>our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It is very 
>true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in our nation 
>The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The Golden Rule is 
>to treat others as you would l

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Gmail via Meteorite-list]

There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided 
legitimacy to your story and your rocks.

You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and 
meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your 
rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial 
interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of 
scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black 
Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed 
because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large.

If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices 
for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get 
past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would only 
be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by any 
number of factors such as but not limited to supply. 

Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good 
for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is 
worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only 
hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara (derogatory 
speech) and move on.

Respectfully,

Mendy Ouzillou

On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:


Meteorite List,


Recall: 
Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use 
the same email account:

Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
gfndit(at)hotmail.com



This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of 
the Meteorite List.

I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. 
But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in 
fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable 
(empirical). 

I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted 
me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.


The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this 
discovery:

GSA and GSB

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html


The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:

http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html


I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite 
specimens by this Passover.



I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or 
vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities 
will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of 
this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at 
Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members 
of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even 
posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their 
hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to 
them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove 
the parent body. I didn't know how.

The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment 
the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive 
igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen 
this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, 
sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many 
very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to 
mankind because those in research and academia  have played unethical games of 
gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and 
do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, 
without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer the original discovery site? 
The discoverer has a right to withhold the discovery site to guard their 
discovery and its full value, and to protect it. How many people over the many 
years couldn't persevere against this wall, this unethical gate-kee
 ping because they didn't have the prerequisite  skills or knowledge and they 
weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed 
disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an 
incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could 
of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process of 
discovery for everyone.

The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep saying 
it ... 

It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making 
scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect discoveries 
and 

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Count Deiro via Meteorite-list]

Mendy and All,

I have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. My nose is twitching and I 
smell an unpleasant odor. Like I'm standing near an outhouse in Colorado.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 MetSoc 


 Message-
>From: Gmail via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2016 5:26 AM
>To: Ann Cain <gfn...@hotmail.com>, Met-List 
><meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
>There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided 
>legitimacy to your story and your rocks.
>
>You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and 
>meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your 
>rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial 
>interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of 
>scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black 
>Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed 
>because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large.
>
>If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices 
>for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get 
>past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would 
>only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by 
>any number of factors such as but not limited to supply. 
>
>Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good 
>for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is 
>worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only 
>hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara (derogatory 
>speech) and move on.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Mendy Ouzillou
>
>On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list 
><meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>Meteorite List,
>
>
>Recall: 
>Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use 
>the same email account:
>
>Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
>gfndit(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
>This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader 
>of the Meteorite List.
>
>I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. 
>But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not 
>in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all 
>repeatable (empirical). 
>
>I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted 
>me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.
>
>
>The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this 
>discovery:
>
>GSA and GSB
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html
>
>
>The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html
>
>
>I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite 
>specimens by this Passover.
>
>
>
>I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or 
>vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities 
>will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of 
>this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at 
>Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members 
>of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even 
>posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their 
>hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came 
>to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't 
>prove the parent body. I didn't know how.
>
>The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the 
>moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. 
>(Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) 
>We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's 
>nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world 
>unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the 
>world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia  have 
>played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job 
>and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without 
>games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list]

Someone boot this spammer, we don't need any more Steve Curry scammers around. 
This reads like it was written in an insane asylum. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 15, 2016, at 12:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Meteorite List,
> 
> 
> Recall: 
> Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, 
> use the same email account:
> 
> Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
> gfndit(at)hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader 
> of the Meteorite List.
> 
> I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. 
> But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not 
> in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all 
> repeatable (empirical). 
> 
> I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have 
> contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.
> 
> 
> The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this 
> discovery:
> 
> GSA and GSB
> 
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html
> 
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html
> 
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html
> 
> 
> The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:
> 
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html
> 
> 
> I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite 
> specimens by this Passover.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or 
> vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities 
> will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background 
> of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at 
> Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, 
> members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have 
> even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in 
> their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I 
> came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I 
> couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how.
> 
> The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the 
> moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. 
> (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) 
> We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's 
> nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world 
> unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the 
> world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia  have 
> played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job 
> and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without 
> games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the 
> discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to 
> withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and 
> to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against 
> this wall, this unethical gate-k
 eeping because they didn't have the prerequisite  skills or knowledge and they 
weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed 
disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an 
incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could 
of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process of 
discovery for everyone.
> 
> The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep 
> saying it ... 
> 
> It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making 
> scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect 
> discoveries and intellectual property. 
> 
> 
> "Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. 
> They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., 
> as anyone."
> -- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, 
> January-February 2005), p.73
> http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/conduct-unbecoming
> 
> 
> As it turns out I'm rather glad it happened the way it did. Nothing like 
> purposeful road-blocks, gate-keeping, and disinformation thrown at me to 
> motivate me to learn to how to do it myself. As the old adage goes, if you 
> want something done right you have to  do it yourself. The Earth Sciences are 
> my background. I have the prerequisite skills. It took time but I did it. I'm 
> still learning. I never stop learning. I didn't do it in a vacuum. I had much 
> help and assistance along the way, from very good, professional scientists 
> and technicians who were very ethical and very knowledgeable and very 
> helpful, and then they did their assigned jobs very 

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list]

This is absolute hogwash.

I have no background in academia, no academic credentials, and before
meteorites, I cut trees for a living.

I did not know anyone, I did not know the rules, I was a total
newcomer back in 2007.

I was embraced with open arms, despite the fact that I came across as
abrasive and cocky.

Multiple scientists have been very nice and accommodating to me.  They
have looked at some of my specimens that I submitted, and one of them
was classified as an LL3.6 - at no cost to me other than postage.

There are no conspiracies to keep newcomers out or to silence their
discoveries.  If that was true, then I wouldn't be here right now.

Shut your foolish mouth before and take this load of tin-foil-hat
conspiracy shit to Alex Jones - where bullshit is appreciated and
spread widely.

Or, get together with Goran Lindfors and Steve Curry and have a circle
jerk - you are wasting your time here.

Yes, I know, I just went on your conspiracy list.  I am a lizard man
from the Pleiades and I eat babies in the name of Satan.



On 1/15/16, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
> Meteorite List,
>
>
> Recall:
> Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard,
> use the same email account:
>
> Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
> gfndit(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
> This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader
> of the Meteorite List.
>
> I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your
> adjective. But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove
> it. I'm not in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is.
> It's all repeatable (empirical).
>
> I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have
> contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.
>
>
> The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this
> discovery:
>
> GSA and GSB
>
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html
>
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html
>
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html
>
>
> The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:
>
> http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html
>
>
> I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite
> specimens by this Passover.
>
>
>
> I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or
> vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's
> identities will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the
> background of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well
> known PhDs at Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite
> analysts, members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the
> years have even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these
> specimens in their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were
> meteorites before I came to them. I knew that they were achondrites.
> However, at the time I couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how.
>
> The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the
> moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me.
> (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.)
> We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's
> nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world
> unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to
> the world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia
> have played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do
> their job and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and
> ethically without games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle
> from the discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right
> to withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value,
> and to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere
> against this wall, this unethical gate-keeping because they didn't have the
> prerequisite  skills or knowledge and they weren't able to realize that they
> were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a result had to walk
> away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and
> wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could have been a
> very cooperative process of discovery for everyone.
>
> The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep
> saying it ...
>
> It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and
> making scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect
> discoveries and intellectual property.
>
>
> "Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings.
> They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc.,
> as anyone."
> -- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American 

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list]

Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give 
away the scientific analysis and identification process to another? Why not 
learn how to do it for yourself so that your knowledge of the science of 
meteoritics increases? Why give away that joy of this discovery process? Sure I 
understand that many can't do it or perhaps they aren't interested in the whole 
scientific process, but I am.

+++
Interesting questions if you are so inclined to do the 
mineralogy/classification and have or can develop the skills and resources to 
do it which are capable of withstanding peer review.  The angle I have to 
answer your questions...you are welcomed to claim anything you want if it is 
your rock, or for that matter someone else's rock.  The reason an independent 
party is brought in is to prevent a conflict of interests in "layperson's 
terms".

If it is a learning process for you, congratulations on your enthusiasm to 
learn more on the subject using your unknown specimen as a self-teaching aid 
and more.  Like learning to dance with what may turn out to be a broom instead 
of an authentic partner ;)

I have a concern with your self-promotion of your rock before it has met any 
formal scientific peer review, or at least publication in an accredited 
scientific journal with a responsible policy of editorial review covering 
whatever appears in their publications and bulletins.  Until this happens, your 
conclusions or interpretations are not validated and subject to a wide variety 
if biases, including but not limited to self-serving bias, confirmation bias, 
and optimism bias.

I wish you the greatest luck with your specimen and your studies, and like all 
other criticism you are likely to receive, that is a healthy part of the 
scientific process to be appreciated, which eventually will invalidate or 
support your budding studies.  Meteorite and meteor-wrong classification is 
based on the ability of a sample to be distributed to independent researchers 
with a stellar reputation in the meteoritical community for this reason.

Best of luck!



-Original Message-
From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 2:59 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery


Meteorite List,


Recall: 
Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use 
the same email account:

Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
gfndit(at)hotmail.com



This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of 
the Meteorite List.

I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. 
But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in 
fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable 
(empirical). 

I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted 
me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.


The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this 
discovery:

GSA and GSB

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html


The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:

http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html


I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite 
specimens by this Passover.



I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or 
vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities 
will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of 
this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at 
Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members 
of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even 
posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their 
hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to 
them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove 
the parent body. I didn't know how.

The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment 
the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive 
igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen 
this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, 
sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many 
very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to 
mankind because those in research and academia  have played unethical games of 
gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and 
do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, 
without

Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Ann Cain via Meteorite-list]

Met List,


I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need to 
stop. I will never respond in kind.

Do you all not know the Met List policies?

General List Policies (i.e. The Rules)

1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites.
2. Be courteous and professional at all times.
3. No Personal Attacks.

...

I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. I'm 
just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at times. 
I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of scientists and 
technicians I worked with were very professional and are wonderful people to 
work with.

First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you are 
incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a 
diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can 
launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is greater than the mass 
of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the Apollo missions, which is 
approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a single mass but many fragments 
from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that was impact ejected/launched off the 
surface of Mars, or just below the surface of Mars. The largest masses of the 
fragments are larger than Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from Mars.

See pg.337

Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf


You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event within 
our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It is very 
true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in our nation 
The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The Golden Rule is to 
treat others as you would like to be treated. Geologist Joe De Kehoe gets the 
whole story very right. I would recommend buying his book, The Silence of the 
Sun. Unfair and unjust laws are simply no law at all. It's lawlessness. There 
is a higher law of fairness and justice. You can not ignore the original 
discoverer. This World Record Mars Discovery will benefit the People. It's the 
People's National treasure. The People are to benefit.  I've said that all 
along and will continue to do so. I'm doing the right thing.

I know a greater law ...

Psalm 24:1 NLT
"A psalm of David. The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it. The world and 
all its people belong to him."


Geologist Joe De Kehoe writes the entire story:...
Chapter One, The Old Woman Meteorite, The story and the controversy that 
resulted from the discovery and removal of the second largest meteorite ever 
found in the U.S.
http://gfoundit-mars.com/owm3word.docx



Glyn Howard




From: Count Deiro <countde...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:59 AM
To: Gmail; Ann Cain; Met-List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Mendy and All,

I have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. My nose is twitching and I 
smell an unpleasant odor. Like I'm standing near an outhouse in Colorado.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 MetSoc


 Message-
>From: Gmail via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2016 5:26 AM
>To: Ann Cain <gfn...@hotmail.com>, Met-List 
><meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
>There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided 
>legitimacy to your story and your rocks.
>
>You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and 
>meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your 
>rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial 
>interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of 
>scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black 
>Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed 
>because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large.
>
>If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices 
>for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get 
>past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would 
>only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by 
>any number of factors such as but not limited to supply.
>
>Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good 
>for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is 
>worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only 
>hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for la

[meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

[Ann Cain via Meteorite-list]

Meteorite List,


Recall: 
Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use 
the same email account:

Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
gfndit(at)hotmail.com



This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of 
the Meteorite List.

I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. 
But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in 
fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable 
(empirical). 

I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted 
me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.


The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this 
discovery:

GSA and GSB

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html


The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:

http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html


I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite 
specimens by this Passover.



I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or 
vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities 
will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of 
this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at 
Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members 
of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even 
posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their 
hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to 
them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove 
the parent body. I didn't know how.

The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment 
the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive 
igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen 
this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, 
sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many 
very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to 
mankind because those in research and academia  have played unethical games of 
gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and 
do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, 
without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer the original discovery site? 
The discoverer has a right to withhold the discovery site to guard their 
discovery and its full value, and to protect it. How many people over the many 
years couldn't persevere against this wall, this unethical gate-keeping because 
they didn't have the prerequisite  skills or knowledge and they weren't able to 
realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a 
result had to walk away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific 
knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could 
have been a very cooperative process of discovery for everyone.

The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep saying 
it ... 

It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making 
scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect discoveries 
and intellectual property. 


"Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. 
They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., as 
anyone."
-- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, 
January-February 2005), p.73
http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/conduct-unbecoming


 As it turns out I'm rather glad it happened the way it did. Nothing like 
purposeful road-blocks, gate-keeping, and disinformation thrown at me to 
motivate me to learn to how to do it myself. As the old adage goes, if you want 
something done right you have to  do it yourself. The Earth Sciences are my 
background. I have the prerequisite skills. It took time but I did it. I'm 
still learning. I never stop learning. I didn't do it in a vacuum. I had much 
help and assistance along the way, from very good, professional scientists and 
technicians who were very ethical and very knowledgeable and very helpful, and 
then they did their assigned jobs very professionally and willingly. One day 
when the story can be told completely in detail I will certainly call out 
personally all those who helped me. The others who didn't, I will anonymously 
thank for motivating me to learn meteoritics  and to learn to do it on my own. 
I have enjoyed the scientific process immensely. Much more to come. And I can 
prove what I know.

Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give away 
the