Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Since the compiling is taking longer than expected perhaps my self imposed Sunday deadline for release of the information was a bit premature. I will try to release it publicly on Sunday, however it might not be ready by then, if you would like to see what I have thus far, please feel free to email me on Sunday and I will email it to you privately. Once I'm finished compiling all the data, I will release it on my site. I want to thank everyone thus far who has shown more than reasonable cooperation in helping compile the data for the strewnfield, and the statistical cost data. Again as a recap, the more information available the more accurately we'll be able to map this strewnfield. I have compiled coordinates for 20-25 finds so far, many people have been way more than willing to provide their data and I'm surprised actually at the level of cooperation. Though I'm disappointed that some people I thought would participate have not yet provided any information. Those of you who've not yet contributed, I welcome and encourage your participation. Those not participating because of prior agreements with your team members and/or landowners, I respect that and look forward to seeing you in the field on the next one. Please send: Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (just a total number, it need not be itemized) Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: Coordinates: (if you don't mind releasing them publicly) Thank you all... Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 10:30 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Greetings, Those of you who are truly a meteorite business should already know that you are allowed to deduct .25 cents a mile for expenses and all food is only a 50% deduction while on the road. Reciepts are needed to proof that you ate and traveled where you say you did. If you traveled by plane then airfare and rental would be considered something you could deduct. As I have said before, when you have a hundred people hunting for a fall, the cost goes way up compared to a dozen or two. --AL Mitterling __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Hi Michael and all, I thought the Govenment wrote the laws? But then most of our representives are fairly rich, including those in power now. They spend big bucks to get elected and get big bucks for being in office. I don't see them trying to offer across the board tax for everyone to make things simple and transparent. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Michael Blood Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Simple: Tax laws were written by and for the wealthy __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Food is still an expense. As is entertainment while on a business trip... All expenses should be included while on the road, as they are still expenses. Many hunters don't have time to go to the grocery store, so to save time they eat out, which adds to the total. Any money spent on the recovery of meteorites in the field are expenses. Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 11:00 AM, fallingfus...@wi.rr.com wrote: Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Just wanted to chime in on this... When I went to PA looking for the fall, food cost more then 2x what we normally would have spent. It cost more then travel costs. In my opinion, food should be counted to an extent of above and beyond normal costs. Hope everyone is good!! Greg C. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 18:00:27 To: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Guidelines for travel expenses have been established by the IRS and are more or less followed by corporate America...ok and academia also. While per diem allowances established for government employees may seem ridiculous there is really no reason to reinvent the wheel. Lodging, meals, travel, transportation, communication, tips etc are normal expenses. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:02 PM To: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com; Meteorites USA; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Just wanted to chime in on this... When I went to PA looking for the fall, food cost more then 2x what we normally would have spent. It cost more then travel costs. In my opinion, food should be counted to an extent of above and beyond normal costs. Hope everyone is good!! Greg C. Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -Original Message- From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 18:00:27 To: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -Original Message- From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Hi All, I agree with Greg as far as how best to tally food expenses while in the field. When I went to PA looking for the fall, food cost more then 2x what we normally would have spent. It cost more (than) travel costs. In my opinion, food should be counted to an extent of above and beyond normal costs. In my case, I would actually have to apply a *discount* to my hunting expenses for going to Wisconsin. Restaurant prices there were less than half what they are for a comparable restaurant in southern California! :-) By the way, our favorite dinner place was Tony's Tap in downtown Mineral Point: excellent bacon cheeseburgers. --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
I disagree. Entertainment and food should NOT be counted as field expenses. As Ryan mentioned, you have to eat food no matter whether you are out collecting meteorites or staying at home watching TV. I would understand a *percentage* of food costs should be allowed because the cost of food in some areas will be higher than normal, but I don't know what a good percentage would be. As for entertainment, that should not be allowed because that could skew your numbers drastically. For example, if Geoff, Steve #1 Arnold, Ruben, etc go to a nudie bar and drink shots of alcohol, the total bill could run into the hundreds or thousands of $$$ (hahaha) and that shouldn't be included since they could do all of that in Tucson. That's an extreme example, but I know that there is always at least one get together on these types of field trips. Only expenses that are in addition to what you would normally have from your daily lives should be included. You (Eric) are the one who is compiling this list, so you make the rules, but I (and many others) won't believe the results if you include stuff like that. When I go on a trip for my company, they want all receipts and an expense report and then they go through each item one by one to see what they will reimburse me for and what they won't. Most entertainment expenses are NOT reimbursed because the Federal government has rules and regulations that companies have to abide by. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:16 PM To: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Food is still an expense. As is entertainment while on a business trip... All expenses should be included while on the road, as they are still expenses. Many hunters don't have time to go to the grocery store, so to save time they eat out, which adds to the total. Any money spent on the recovery of meteorites in the field are expenses. Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 11:00 AM, fallingfus...@wi.rr.com wrote: Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -Original Message- From: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses) This need not be itemized, and can be a total cost for your hunt... Total Number of Meteorites Found: Total Weight Found: This survey is completely anonymous, and your identity will be kept confidential, all you need send is totals/numbers. In addition, those of you who'd like to share coordinates that would also be appreciated, again, your anonymity will be kept unless you state specifically that you wouldn't mind releasing your identity publicly in association with your data. All this information will be published on my site and on-list to share with everyone in a completely transparent and open manner. Thank you all in advance for your cooperation. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
I would agree now that entertainment is not quite an expense and debatable, I stand corrected on that. We could debate all day long over the WHAT and WHY any costs should be considered an expense. In order to alleviate some of this confusion I'll list the main expenses below, minus any incidentals. If you gave me the leeway to make a rule it would be... If money spent while in the field was related to hunting and necessary to provide the time and resources needed to hunt and/or recover meteorites on the WI meteorite hunt, then that money shall be considered an expense. Most hunters I know eat out at restaurants 2-3 times per day (due to convenience and time constraints) so food should be included as an expense simply because eating at restaurants is not an everyday expense as most people don't eat out every day much less 3 times per day. This increases your regular food cost by a large percentage. However, as Rob Matson pointed out, sometimes it's less expensive as in this example for California it is very expensive to eat out. This is an exception rather than the rule I think. I would say at least 75% of all food cost perhaps the full 100% is fair to include as an expense since the average is higher while traveling vs eating at home. Alcoholic beverages need not be included as they are not necessary to the recovery of meteorites. Perhaps this might be debatable too... ;) lol This includes: - Food Drink (non-alcoholic) Gas/Fuel Hotel Car Rental Airfare Purchases (equipment, clothes, boots, rain gear, meteorites, newspapers, etc.) Fees (charged by landowners to hunt) - I hope this list clears things up. We'll see... Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 12:42 PM, Bob Loeffler wrote: I disagree. Entertainment and food should NOT be counted as field expenses. As Ryan mentioned, you have to eat food no matter whether you are out collecting meteorites or staying at home watching TV. I would understand a *percentage* of food costs should be allowed because the cost of food in some areas will be higher than normal, but I don't know what a good percentage would be. As for entertainment, that should not be allowed because that could skew your numbers drastically. For example, if Geoff, Steve #1 Arnold, Ruben, etc go to a nudie bar and drink shots of alcohol, the total bill could run into the hundreds or thousands of $$$ (hahaha) and that shouldn't be included since they could do all of that in Tucson. That's an extreme example, but I know that there is always at least one get together on these types of field trips. Only expenses that are in addition to what you would normally have from your daily lives should be included. You (Eric) are the one who is compiling this list, so you make the rules, but I (and many others) won't believe the results if you include stuff like that. When I go on a trip for my company, they want all receipts and an expense report and then they go through each item one by one to see what they will reimburse me for and what they won't. Most entertainment expenses are NOT reimbursed because the Federal government has rules and regulations that companies have to abide by. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:16 PM To: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Food is still an expense. As is entertainment while on a business trip... All expenses should be included while on the road, as they are still expenses. Many hunters don't have time to go to the grocery store, so to save time they eat out, which adds to the total. Any money spent on the recovery of meteorites in the field are expenses. Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 11:00 AM, fallingfus...@wi.rr.com wrote: Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -Original Message- From: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Simple: Tax laws were written by and for the wealthy - therefore, entertainment is an expense IF it is taking place to woo a Potential buyer, seller, etc, or as an defacto payment to employees - also known as a perk or to simply build a trusting relationship With other professionals. So, for tax purposes if one hunted this meteorite to make Money from sales of same and if sales of same will be reported As income on one's taxes and IF said entertainment were with Other hunters - it would be an expense based on greasing the Skids or to proffer favor or to build a trusting relationship by Which one may benefit in terms of the possibility of info being Shared, inclusion on a hunting party etc, etc. If one is a dealer he can also write off ALL expenses related To keeping a dog - even a Chihuahua, as they function as deterrent to theft of goods related to sales - even if only their yapping Acts as an alarm. (I don't go this far, myself, but it is perfectly legal). However, for the purpose of estimating out of pocket costs On a hunting expedition, it becomes debatable, but cannot be ruled Out entirely out of hand for the same reasons that it can be written off re taxes. Best wishes, Michael On 5/9/10 2:08 PM, Met. Eric Wichman Escondido e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: I would agree now that entertainment is not quite an expense and debatable, I stand corrected on that. We could debate all day long over the WHAT and WHY any costs should be considered an expense. In order to alleviate some of this confusion I'll list the main expenses below, minus any incidentals. If you gave me the leeway to make a rule it would be... If money spent while in the field was related to hunting and necessary to provide the time and resources needed to hunt and/or recover meteorites on the WI meteorite hunt, then that money shall be considered an expense. Most hunters I know eat out at restaurants 2-3 times per day (due to convenience and time constraints) so food should be included as an expense simply because eating at restaurants is not an everyday expense as most people don't eat out every day much less 3 times per day. This increases your regular food cost by a large percentage. However, as Rob Matson pointed out, sometimes it's less expensive as in this example for California it is very expensive to eat out. This is an exception rather than the rule I think. I would say at least 75% of all food cost perhaps the full 100% is fair to include as an expense since the average is higher while traveling vs eating at home. Alcoholic beverages need not be included as they are not necessary to the recovery of meteorites. Perhaps this might be debatable too... ;) lol This includes: - Food Drink (non-alcoholic) Gas/Fuel Hotel Car Rental Airfare Purchases (equipment, clothes, boots, rain gear, meteorites, newspapers, etc.) Fees (charged by landowners to hunt) - I hope this list clears things up. We'll see... Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 12:42 PM, Bob Loeffler wrote: I disagree. Entertainment and food should NOT be counted as field expenses. As Ryan mentioned, you have to eat food no matter whether you are out collecting meteorites or staying at home watching TV. I would understand a *percentage* of food costs should be allowed because the cost of food in some areas will be higher than normal, but I don't know what a good percentage would be. As for entertainment, that should not be allowed because that could skew your numbers drastically. For example, if Geoff, Steve #1 Arnold, Ruben, etc go to a nudie bar and drink shots of alcohol, the total bill could run into the hundreds or thousands of $$$ (hahaha) and that shouldn't be included since they could do all of that in Tucson. That's an extreme example, but I know that there is always at least one get together on these types of field trips. Only expenses that are in addition to what you would normally have from your daily lives should be included. You (Eric) are the one who is compiling this list, so you make the rules, but I (and many others) won't believe the results if you include stuff like that. When I go on a trip for my company, they want all receipts and an expense report and then they go through each item one by one to see what they will reimburse me for and what they won't. Most entertainment expenses are NOT reimbursed because the Federal government has rules and regulations that companies have to abide by. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:16 PM To: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Food is still an expense
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
Apologies in advance, but some of the information in the emails below is misleading. If you are a professional meteorite hunter and running your meteorite business as a business, the cost of food on a hunting trip is in fact a legitimate line item expense---as can be entertainment---within the bounds of either tax code or the triggers that prompt an audit. The purchase of meteorites is not a taxable expense but the acquisition of inventory, which is dealt with completely differently than line item expenses. Companies for whom we work don't want to reimburse expenses whenever possible because they (a) don't want to pay and/or (b) undergo any scrutiny for reporting aggregate figures which are out-of-balance. It's different when you're running your own biz. I highly recommend consultation with an accountant. All the best, and for those immersed in the same, hoping you had a lovely Mother's Day! dp On May 9, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Bob Loeffler wrote: I disagree. Entertainment and food should NOT be counted as field expenses. As Ryan mentioned, you have to eat food no matter whether you are out collecting meteorites or staying at home watching TV. I would understand a *percentage* of food costs should be allowed because the cost of food in some areas will be higher than normal, but I don't know what a good percentage would be. As for entertainment, that should not be allowed because that could skew your numbers drastically. For example, if Geoff, Steve #1 Arnold, Ruben, etc go to a nudie bar and drink shots of alcohol, the total bill could run into the hundreds or thousands of $$$ (hahaha) and that shouldn't be included since they could do all of that in Tucson. That's an extreme example, but I know that there is always at least one get together on these types of field trips. Only expenses that are in addition to what you would normally have from your daily lives should be included. You (Eric) are the one who is compiling this list, so you make the rules, but I (and many others) won't believe the results if you include stuff like that. When I go on a trip for my company, they want all receipts and an expense report and then they go through each item one by one to see what they will reimburse me for and what they won't. Most entertainment expenses are NOT reimbursed because the Federal government has rules and regulations that companies have to abide by. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:16 PM To: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Food is still an expense. As is entertainment while on a business trip... All expenses should be included while on the road, as they are still expenses. Many hunters don't have time to go to the grocery store, so to save time they eat out, which adds to the total. Any money spent on the recovery of meteorites in the field are expenses. Regards, Eric On 5/9/2010 11:00 AM, fallingfus...@wi.rr.com wrote: Hi Eric... Just wondering why food should be included for expenses. Don't people eat when they're not on a hunting expedition? Sure, eating out may be more expensive, but this isn't exactly fine dining were talking about here. - Standard fare. Ryan Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -Original Message- From: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 10:30:10 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Hi listees and fellow meteorite hunters in the field. I'm back from the field and I'm compiling (unscientifically) some statistical data that I've not yet seen anyone attempt to calculate in any way but a cursory manner thus far. If you've hunted the WI meteorite fall, and have data you'd like to share, please send me an email with your hunting information/statistics. Primarily what I'm looking for is totals, hours hunted, days hunted, meteorites found, and costs associated with this hunt. I'd like to do this while WI is fresh in everyone's minds and I think that will provide the most reliable information, and also give some an idea of the costs in time and money that go into recovering meteorites from the field. Please send in the following format to make it easier to add all totals. If you can think of any other data that should be included in this list, please feel free to respond on-list so others can add their input. I will be including all my totals as well in this data. Total Days In The Field: Total Hours Hunted Per Day: Total Miles Walked Per Day: Total Costs: (including airfare, hotel, rental car, food, fuel, cost of meteorites purchased, miscellaneous expenses; i.e. pay to hunt expenses
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
G'Day Michael, Eric and List There is really no issue here. It costs money to hunt anything down. Buried treasure from a hoist, as well as past pirates. Or maybe you just nugget shoot, If you decide to hunt a meteorite, you take the consequences; there's no difference. You could be frugal or you could be frivolous. Before I got into meteorites, I hunted gold, still do. So I get the word that some big nuggets are being found, now this is hypothetical so don't get your knickers in a knot. In an area out of my state, I rally up the team, myself and my wife and head off. Sure there's gas involved and at the moment rather expensive, I have the truck serviced just before I leave (just on the safe side) and hope to find that retirement nugget. We carry all our food, pitch a tent (no restaurants for us), 5 days into the search, I pick up a 1 ounce nugget, spot price $1208/ounce, take into account 5 days wages $2000 and if you're questioning this, I do earn $50/hour. We had water, food, incidentals.. Let's be nice here and on the frugal side $150. I can get quite creative with a can of spam. So now we have a full tank, $57. I fill up at the 3/4 mark another $20. I do the reverse on the way home, so that's $154. So what do we have here? No motels, cooking on an open fire, $2000 in lost wages (but then again, I might not have been working on those 5 day), $154 in gas, $150 in food (now that's right out there; I'm dining at the top of the food chain), let's not exclude a possible breakdown, blown transmission, blown tire that needs to be replaced, oh and don't forget medical bills in case you get bitten by a rattlesnake. So we're looking at $2304 in expenses, this is not including medical expenses for the snake bite or possible mechanical failures. So can I sell my nugget for $3500? I doubt it. Hunting gold, hunting treasure, hunting meteorites ... Is all about fun. You can never recoup back what you estimate a value for on something that you enjoy doing. Enjoy the hunt. Forget the money. Enjoy! And to those on this list that are mothers, Happy Mother's Day. Cheers John -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Blood Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:24 PM To: Met. Eric Wichman Escondido; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Simple: Tax laws were written by and for the wealthy - therefore, entertainment is an expense IF it is taking place to woo a Potential buyer, seller, etc, or as an defacto payment to employees - also known as a perk or to simply build a trusting relationship With other professionals. So, for tax purposes if one hunted this meteorite to make Money from sales of same and if sales of same will be reported As income on one's taxes and IF said entertainment were with Other hunters - it would be an expense based on greasing the Skids or to proffer favor or to build a trusting relationship by Which one may benefit in terms of the possibility of info being Shared, inclusion on a hunting party etc, etc. If one is a dealer he can also write off ALL expenses related To keeping a dog - even a Chihuahua, as they function as deterrent to theft of goods related to sales - even if only their yapping Acts as an alarm. (I don't go this far, myself, but it is perfectly legal). However, for the purpose of estimating out of pocket costs On a hunting expedition, it becomes debatable, but cannot be ruled Out entirely out of hand for the same reasons that it can be written off re taxes. Best wishes, Michael On 5/9/10 2:08 PM, Met. Eric Wichman Escondido e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: I would agree now that entertainment is not quite an expense and debatable, I stand corrected on that. We could debate all day long over the WHAT and WHY any costs should be considered an expense. In order to alleviate some of this confusion I'll list the main expenses below, minus any incidentals. If you gave me the leeway to make a rule it would be... If money spent while in the field was related to hunting and necessary to provide the time and resources needed to hunt and/or recover meteorites on the WI meteorite hunt, then that money shall be considered an expense. Most hunters I know eat out at restaurants 2-3 times per day (due to convenience and time constraints) so food should be included as an expense simply because eating at restaurants is not an everyday expense as most people don't eat out every day much less 3 times per day. This increases your regular food cost by a large percentage. However, as Rob Matson pointed out, sometimes it's less expensive as in this example for California it is very expensive to eat out. This is an exception rather than the rule I think. I would say at least 75% of all food cost perhaps the full 100% is fair to include as an expense since the average is higher
Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics
I agree with a good deal of what johnno says. I would also like to offer this thought as a collector... We all know there is cost, I don't like the fact that ways we get by with the IRS is being used as guidelines to get by on collectors. We break everything down to the IRS to get more money back. When that same exact set of rules is used for pricing meteorites, collectors who see this will buy elsewhere. Collectors are not the IRS. To see us/them and meteorites associated with such things is not good and goes to show what I see as a recent trend to use commodity based and other ways to make high prices seem legitimate. At $100 per gram, a 80g stone after cutting will bring about$7000.00 Cost in the field if you buy it, $2-$10 per gram that's makes a profit of about $6200 on just 70g of material. That's just 70g. If you get only that in one week, you have done VERY WELL. To go a step further, use johns numbers to get what you do in profit after one weeks cost for a total of about $4000 profit. That's IF you make $50 an hour. Just my thoughts and numbers. Greg Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: John.L.Cabassi j...@cabassi.net Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 18:03:59 To: 'Michael Blood'mlbl...@cox.net; 'Met. Eric Wichman Escondido'e...@meteoritesusa.com; 'Meteorite List'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics G'Day Michael, Eric and List There is really no issue here. It costs money to hunt anything down. Buried treasure from a hoist, as well as past pirates. Or maybe you just nugget shoot, If you decide to hunt a meteorite, you take the consequences; there's no difference. You could be frugal or you could be frivolous. Before I got into meteorites, I hunted gold, still do. So I get the word that some big nuggets are being found, now this is hypothetical so don't get your knickers in a knot. In an area out of my state, I rally up the team, myself and my wife and head off. Sure there's gas involved and at the moment rather expensive, I have the truck serviced just before I leave (just on the safe side) and hope to find that retirement nugget. We carry all our food, pitch a tent (no restaurants for us), 5 days into the search, I pick up a 1 ounce nugget, spot price $1208/ounce, take into account 5 days wages $2000 and if you're questioning this, I do earn $50/hour. We had water, food, incidentals.. Let's be nice here and on the frugal side $150. I can get quite creative with a can of spam. So now we have a full tank, $57. I fill up at the 3/4 mark another $20. I do the reverse on the way home, so that's $154. So what do we have here? No motels, cooking on an open fire, $2000 in lost wages (but then again, I might not have been working on those 5 day), $154 in gas, $150 in food (now that's right out there; I'm dining at the top of the food chain), let's not exclude a possible breakdown, blown transmission, blown tire that needs to be replaced, oh and don't forget medical bills in case you get bitten by a rattlesnake. So we're looking at $2304 in expenses, this is not including medical expenses for the snake bite or possible mechanical failures. So can I sell my nugget for $3500? I doubt it. Hunting gold, hunting treasure, hunting meteorites ... Is all about fun. You can never recoup back what you estimate a value for on something that you enjoy doing. Enjoy the hunt. Forget the money. Enjoy! And to those on this list that are mothers, Happy Mother's Day. Cheers John -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Blood Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:24 PM To: Met. Eric Wichman Escondido; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WI Meteorite Hunting Statistics Simple: Tax laws were written by and for the wealthy - therefore, entertainment is an expense IF it is taking place to woo a Potential buyer, seller, etc, or as an defacto payment to employees - also known as a perk or to simply build a trusting relationship With other professionals. So, for tax purposes if one hunted this meteorite to make Money from sales of same and if sales of same will be reported As income on one's taxes and IF said entertainment were with Other hunters - it would be an expense based on greasing the Skids or to proffer favor or to build a trusting relationship by Which one may benefit in terms of the possibility of info being Shared, inclusion on a hunting party etc, etc. If one is a dealer he can also write off ALL expenses related To keeping a dog - even a Chihuahua, as they function as deterrent to theft of goods related to sales - even if only their yapping Acts as an alarm. (I don't go this far, myself, but it is perfectly legal). However, for the purpose of estimating out of pocket costs On a hunting expedition, it becomes debatable, but cannot be ruled
