Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Dear List, An update, it looks like even though the two Kalahari lunar meteorites have completely different classifications they are paired. This makes sense since they were found just 50 meters apart. The abstract below proves this since they both share the same CRE and terrestrial ages: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5270.pdf Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Hi Adam, I don't know strewnfield stats so well, but for the case, that they aren't fragments of the same stone, which were transported later by a mechanism, the heck I dunno which, wouldn't it be highly improbable, that two stones of a fall landed so close to each other, especially as they have such different sizes? ??? Martin - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008,009? Dear List, An update, it looks like even though the two Kalahari lunar meteorites have completely different classifications they are paired. This makes sense since they were found just 50 meters apart. The abstract below proves this since they both share the same CRE and terrestrial ages: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5270.pdf Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
When this meteorite came to my attention as a member of the NomCom, warning bells went off in my head too. Enough evidence was presented to us to convince us that these were meteorites, although I expected this not to be the case, that we had to name them. But the find story is very odd. My reading of it is this: somebody who knows nothing about meteorites is driving his vehicle in the Kalahari. In a brushy area (based on satellite imagery: get World Wind, then search the MetBull database for Kalahari 008/9 and click on the nasa link to see the place), he parks in front of a sand dune and there he sees a rock: no fusion crust, probably very nondescript looking, the size of a cantaloupe melon. Oh, he says, here's something cool... a rock! I think I'll drag this 30 lb thing back home with me. But first, I think I'll comb the area for more. Hmmm. jeff At 09:30 PM 8/9/2005, Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, I was wondering if anybody knows the FeO/MnO rations for the two Kalahari Lunaites. Has anybody ever seen a picture of these two stones? Do they have crust? Nothing seems to add up. A Moon to Earth transit time of only a couple of hundred years? A 300 plus million year old terrestrial aged rock rated W1? Two completely different classifications for two rocks found 50 meters apart? Just Curious, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
If you want to see the Kalahari 008/9 location from Google Earth, download that program from http://kh.google.com/download/earth/index.html, then take the snippet of code below, paste it into a text file, save it as kalahari.kml, and then launch the file. There must be a better way to send this info, but I wanted to avoid an attachment. ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? kml xmlns=http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0; Placemark nameKalahari 009/name LookAt longitude22.976600/longitude latitude-20.981800/latitude range9114.274886914085/range tilt-1.977155456860398e-012/tilt heading-0.4735531976225136/heading /LookAt styleUrlroot://styleMaps#default+nicon=0x307+hicon=0x317/styleUrl Point coordinates22.976600,-20.981800,0/coordinates /Point /Placemark /kml jeff At 09:30 PM 8/9/2005, Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, I was wondering if anybody knows the FeO/MnO rations for the two Kalahari Lunaites. Has anybody ever seen a picture of these two stones? Do they have crust? Nothing seems to add up. A Moon to Earth transit time of only a couple of hundred years? A 300 plus million year old terrestrial aged rock rated W1? Two completely different classifications for two rocks found 50 meters apart? Just Curious, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
with the very old terrestrial age, is it really that much of a surprise to find diffrent analysis for a paired set of stones? Meteoirtes can weather very diffirently in diffrent locations even through they are only located a short distance away from each other, or heck, look at my favorite enigma, dhofar 700 (I belive you guys posted about buying a piece of this from blaine) some of the stones are vessiculated while some are not vessiculated - but there are no stones that are half and half - yet they are all suposed to be the same meteorite. From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008,009? Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 19:19:53 -0700 Hi Again, I meant a terrestrial age of over 300 thousand years not 300 million which is still very old by meteoritic standards. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Hi Adam, Martin, Jeff, and All, First, as for Martin's question - it's not that unusual that two different sized individuals of one and the same fall land that close to each other. Take for example the 8 kilo + main mass of the SaU shergottite strewnfield (SaU 008). Other, much smaller stones (SaU 051, and other stones comprised under the original SaU 008 designation) were recovered from the vicinity of the main mass. I could quote other examples, such as the Dhofar 302/908 strewnfield, where very small individual masses (not fragments) and larger stones were found within the distance of less than 100 meters. This certainly depends on the original impact angle of the fall, and it doesn't sound that unusual to me. As for the CRE and terrestrial ages of Kalahari 008, and 009, you have to read Kuni Nishiizumi's study with utmost care. He isn't saying that the terrestrial age is several hundred of thousand years - he's just confronting us with two possible scenarios that might explain the cosmogenic nuclide values within these rocks. The first scenario proposes a long terrestrial residence time at the find site (that also would be valid for a terrestrial rock subjected to the same conditions!!!), and the second - more probable scenario - proposes a very short transition time, and the implantation of these radionuclides in space. So don't mistake the first scenario for a calculation of a terrestrial age for the Kalahari lunaites. As far as I know, short transition times, i.e. CRE ages, make it more or less impossible to determine a terrestrial age (at least via the usual C14 analysis). A terrestrial age hasn't been determined for Kalahari 008, and 009, and thus there might be no contradiction at all between the W1 classification, and the other given data. Last but not least, I agree with Jeff Grossmann's notion that the find story is odd. Unconfirmed rumors have it that these lunaites were either found in South Africa or in the neighboring Namibia (both countries with strict meteorite laws), and that the find location in Botswana was just made up for obvious reasons. However, these rumors aren't consistent with the fact that the finder obviously isn't interested in selling any of his stuff - it wouldn't make much sense to make up anything in this case... Anyway, the story is strange, and it sounds improbable that a person who's not into meteorites at all recovers a large lunaite, AND - having no idea of what he has there - combs the place for additional fragments. That's really odd. Lunatically yours, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi Adam, I don't know strewnfield stats so well, but for the case, that they aren't fragments of the same stone, which were transported later by a mechanism, the heck I dunno which, wouldn't it be highly improbable, that two stones of a fall landed so close to each other, especially as they have such different sizes? ??? Martin - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008,009? Dear List, An update, it looks like even though the two Kalahari lunar meteorites have completely different classifications they are paired. This makes sense since they were found just 50 meters apart. The abstract below proves this since they both share the same CRE and terrestrial ages: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5270.pdf Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Dear List, I was wondering if anybody knows the FeO/MnO rations for the two Kalahari Lunaites. Has anybody ever seen a picture of these two stones? Do they have crust? Nothing seems to add up. A Moon to Earth transit time of only a couple of hundred years? A 300 plus million year old terrestrial aged rock rated W1? Two completely different classifications for two rocks found 50 meters apart? Just Curious, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Hi Again, I meant a terrestrial age of over 300 thousand years not 300 million which is still very old by meteoritic standards. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What are the FeO/MnO Ratios for the Kalahari 008, 009?
Adam H. wrote: Two completely different classifications for two rocks found 50 meters apart? Just Curious, Adam 1. Notice all the computations, theoretical scribblings, and lab equipment, Adam ... Yes, curiosity killed these cats... (see Gary Larson cartoon link: www.diogenite.com/cat.jpg ) 2. Maybe it was the blue-sand action? 3. Adam, a favorite statistical question: In a room with thirty students...what is the probability that two students share the same birthday? (will send this answer in private to anyone who requests) 4. A bright software developer's point of view (well-done)! Enjoy: http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/coincidence.html Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
