RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds - Conclusion
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 1:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds - Conclusion Hello List, I suppose it is time to put an end to this thread. Let me do it by offering a little bit of a deeper explanation as to what happened. Before I started the thread, I reluctantly agreed to give my customer his refund, but I warned him that if he accepted a refund from me, under what I told him I thought was unreasonable circumstances, that I would no longer do any business with him in the future. Not that I like to cut off any customer's money or any upward pressure in future ebay biddings they might give, I felt that I did not want to do business with someone that I felt would change the rules in the middle of transactions in the future. However, I was completely comfortable in making the refund if he was comfortable in not being able to buy from me in the future. (I feel that many times I offer very good deals, even below current market values at times, and that missing out on them in the future, was punishment enough for him recouping a couple of dollars with this current deal.) After informing him of that (but before he could reply to me if he indeed wanted to take the money back in exchange for the specimen) I made the first post to the list. I did so after thinking about the situation and actually second guessing whether I had a right to think his request was unreasonable in the first place. Well, it seems that the response was about 25 people agreeing with me and 0 agreeing with my customer. Fortunately for me, my customer is a member of the list and he was able to read these posts. Not that my intention was to change his mind, or to embarrass him, I really wanted to keep the discussion of the facts on the list to the moral dilemma. However, the customer wrote me stating that he realized he was wrong (or at least I think that is what he said, I sometimes have a hard time understanding his broken English). [oops, did that give him away?] I have communicated with my customer, and we have reached an agreement in the ordeal where he is making his acquisition upon our previously agreed to circumstances. While I was content to give the refund, I am happy that the deal is going through as originally agreed upon. While this topic involved a Park Forest specimen, and partially was brought about by a fluctuation in perceived retail prices of Park Forest specimens, that really didn't have a bearing on the moral question involved. However I do want to toss in my opinion on the values and prices of Park Forest specimens. As Jim Strope (I think) mentioned, I too really think there is just a temporary dip in the prices on the Park Forest specimens. There are some events and dynamics at work that I sincerely believe will cause a spike in demand and thus a spike in the values of Park Forest Specimens the next couple of months, especially with the small individuals that I have found. There are quite a few different factors that may or may not effect the values in the near future, and we will have to see how it all plays out. But I do not agree with the opinion (stated as fact by some) that the values of Park Forest are continuing to drop. I agree that much of the established meteorite market have had their needs filled by now, and fewer of them are competing for remaining specimens for sale, but there is really very little left to be sold. I know quite a few dealers that have been sold out for some time. Yes, there are two big stones whose final destination is not yet determined. If these end up in institutions, or remain with their finders for a long time or in private hands and not end up being cut and distributed, there will be BIG shortage in a few months time. If they end up being cut and brought to the retail market, it will have an effect on the values of slices and to a lesser degree small whole stones. More small stones might be able to be found, but I have struck out the last 12 days in the strewnfield, so I am pessimistic too many more will be found. Besides, anyone who goes up there to hunt and finds one or two is not likely to want to sell them. Those will probably be held onto forever. Anything, from unusual research findings, to more nationwide or worldwide publicity, to new collectors joining the hobby (as they occasionally do) even over the short run will put extra demand on these unspoken for specimen that I don't think there is supply enough to fill at current prices. This gives me optimism that the prices could and probably will go up. Let's revisit this issue in 6 months or so from now and see what happens. Steve Arnold ** Subj: Dealer Refunds Date: 6/27/2003 9:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time From: MeteorHntr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I have an ethical question I would like to get some
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds - Conclusion
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 1:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds - Conclusion Hello List, I suppose it is time to put an end to this thread. Let me do it by offering a little bit of a deeper explanation as to what happened. Before I started the thread, I reluctantly agreed to give my customer his refund, but I warned him that if he accepted a refund from me, under what I told him I thought was unreasonable circumstances, that I would no longer do any business with him in the future. Not that I like to cut off any customer's money or any upward pressure in future ebay biddings they might give, I felt that I did not want to do business with someone that I felt would change the rules in the middle of transactions in the future. However, I was completely comfortable in making the refund if he was comfortable in not being able to buy from me in the future. (I feel that many times I offer very good deals, even below current market values at times, and that missing out on them in the future, was punishment enough for him recouping a couple of dollars with this current deal.) After informing him of that (but before he could reply to me if he indeed wanted to take the money back in exchange for the specimen) I made the first post to the list. I did so after thinking about the situation and actually second guessing whether I had a right to think his request was unreasonable in the first place. Well, it seems that the response was about 25 people agreeing with me and 0 agreeing with my customer. Fortunately for me, my customer is a member of the list and he was able to read these posts. Not that my intention was to change his mind, or to embarrass him, I really wanted to keep the discussion of the facts on the list to the moral dilemma. However, the customer wrote me stating that he realized he was wrong (or at least I think that is what he said, I sometimes have a hard time understanding his broken English). [oops, did that give him away?] I have communicated with my customer, and we have reached an agreement in the ordeal where he is making his acquisition upon our previously agreed to circumstances. While I was content to give the refund, I am happy that the deal is going through as originally agreed upon. While this topic involved a Park Forest specimen, and partially was brought about by a fluctuation in perceived retail prices of Park Forest specimens, that really didn't have a bearing on the moral question involved. However I do want to toss in my opinion on the values and prices of Park Forest specimens. As Jim Strope (I think) mentioned, I too really think there is just a temporary dip in the prices on the Park Forest specimens. There are some events and dynamics at work that I sincerely believe will cause a spike in demand and thus a spike in the values of Park Forest Specimens the next couple of months, especially with the small individuals that I have found. There are quite a few different factors that may or may not effect the values in the near future, and we will have to see how it all plays out. But I do not agree with the opinion (stated as fact by some) that the values of Park Forest are continuing to drop. I agree that much of the established meteorite market have had their needs filled by now, and fewer of them are competing for remaining specimens for sale, but there is really very little left to be sold. I know quite a few dealers that have been sold out for some time. Yes, there are two big stones whose final destination is not yet determined. If these end up in institutions, or remain with their finders for a long time or in private hands and not end up being cut and distributed, there will be BIG shortage in a few months time. If they end up being cut and brought to the retail market, it will have an effect on the values of slices and to a lesser degree small whole stones. More small stones might be able to be found, but I have struck out the last 12 days in the strewnfield, so I am pessimistic too many more will be found. Besides, anyone who goes up there to hunt and finds one or two is not likely to want to sell them. Those will probably be held onto forever. Anything, from unusual research findings, to more nationwide or worldwide publicity, to new collectors joining the hobby (as they occasionally do) even over the short run will put extra demand on these unspoken for specimen that I don't think there is supply enough to fill at current prices. This gives me optimism that the prices could and probably will go up. Let's revisit this issue in 6 months or so from now and see what happens. Steve Arnold ** Subj: Dealer Refunds Date: 6/27/2003 9:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time From: MeteorHntr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I have an ethical question I would like to get some
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds - Conclusion
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 1:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds - Conclusion Hello List, I suppose it is time to put an end to this thread. Let me do it by offering a little bit of a deeper explanation as to what happened. Before I started the thread, I reluctantly agreed to give my customer his refund, but I warned him that if he accepted a refund from me, under what I told him I thought was unreasonable circumstances, that I would no longer do any business with him in the future. Not that I like to cut off any customer's money or any upward pressure in future ebay biddings they might give, I felt that I did not want to do business with someone that I felt would change the rules in the middle of transactions in the future. However, I was completely comfortable in making the refund if he was comfortable in not being able to buy from me in the future. (I feel that many times I offer very good deals, even below current market values at times, and that missing out on them in the future, was punishment enough for him recouping a couple of dollars with this current deal.) After informing him of that (but before he could reply to me if he indeed wanted to take the money back in exchange for the specimen) I made the first post to the list. I did so after thinking about the situation and actually second guessing whether I had a right to think his request was unreasonable in the first place. Well, it seems that the response was about 25 people agreeing with me and 0 agreeing with my customer. Fortunately for me, my customer is a member of the list and he was able to read these posts. Not that my intention was to change his mind, or to embarrass him, I really wanted to keep the discussion of the facts on the list to the moral dilemma. However, the customer wrote me stating that he realized he was wrong (or at least I think that is what he said, I sometimes have a hard time understanding his broken English). [oops, did that give him away?] I have communicated with my customer, and we have reached an agreement in the ordeal where he is making his acquisition upon our previously agreed to circumstances. While I was content to give the refund, I am happy that the deal is going through as originally agreed upon. While this topic involved a Park Forest specimen, and partially was brought about by a fluctuation in perceived retail prices of Park Forest specimens, that really didn't have a bearing on the moral question involved. However I do want to toss in my opinion on the values and prices of Park Forest specimens. As Jim Strope (I think) mentioned, I too really think there is just a temporary dip in the prices on the Park Forest specimens. There are some events and dynamics at work that I sincerely believe will cause a spike in demand and thus a spike in the values of Park Forest Specimens the next couple of months, especially with the small individuals that I have found. There are quite a few different factors that may or may not effect the values in the near future, and we will have to see how it all plays out. But I do not agree with the opinion (stated as fact by some) that the values of Park Forest are continuing to drop. I agree that much of the established meteorite market have had their needs filled by now, and fewer of them are competing for remaining specimens for sale, but there is really very little left to be sold. I know quite a few dealers that have been sold out for some time. Yes, there are two big stones whose final destination is not yet determined. If these end up in institutions, or remain with their finders for a long time or in private hands and not end up being cut and distributed, there will be BIG shortage in a few months time. If they end up being cut and brought to the retail market, it will have an effect on the values of slices and to a lesser degree small whole stones. More small stones might be able to be found, but I have struck out the last 12 days in the strewnfield, so I am pessimistic too many more will be found. Besides, anyone who goes up there to hunt and finds one or two is not likely to want to sell them. Those will probably be held onto forever. Anything, from unusual research findings, to more nationwide or worldwide publicity, to new collectors joining the hobby (as they occasionally do) even over the short run will put extra demand on these unspoken for specimen that I don't think there is supply enough to fill at current prices. This gives me optimism that the prices could and probably will go up. Let's revisit this issue in 6 months or so from now and see what happens. Steve Arnold ** Subj: Dealer Refunds Date: 6/27/2003 9:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time From: MeteorHntr To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I have an ethical question I would like to get some
