Re: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana
Hello, All I was just looking at my sample of iron from Disco Island. It weighs about 350 gr. and is about the size of a handball. I ground a corner off to have a better look at its structure and found it looks more like a silicated iron meteorite with a continuous field of iron surrounding small blebs of gray silicates. I would guess 90% iron and 10% silicates. My slice of Putorana is about 50/50 iron /silicates. I do recall seeing a sample of iron in basalt from Germany that looked a lot like Putorana. Regards, Fred Olsen - Original Message - From: Treiman, Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: metlist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana > Hi, all - > > With Matt Morgan's help, we've just finished a paper > on the Putorana rock, and it should be published in > July (?) with the Meteoritical Society meeting abstracts. > The paper is bigger and more formal than the article(s) > in Meteorite . If you'd like a preprint, send me your email > or postal address! > >Personally, I'm not real keen on the Putorana iron coming > from the Earth's core. It seems like an awfully long way for > heavy stuff like iron metal to rise (or be carried up). > The Diskoisland metal supposedly formed when molten basalt > hit coal seams. The reaction was like smelting - iron oxide in the > basalt magma reacted with the coal, and produced iron metal. That > doesn't seem to work for the Putorana stuff, as the basalt is too rich > in iron -- if iron had been smelted out of it, the basalt would be poor > in iron. > My current guess is that the iron metal came from iron sulfide > liquid. There's a lot of iron sulfide ore in the Putorana/Noril'sk area, > so having sulfide is not a problem. Perhaps the sulfide could get > "roasted" naturally, and drive the sulfur off into the air. The iron would > be left behind as metal. Just an idea. Perhaps our Russian friends > know more about Putorana?? > >Cheers! > Allan > > Allan H. Treiman > Lunar and Planetary Institute > 3600 Bay Area Boulevard > Houston TX 77058-1113 >281-486-2117 >281-486-2162 FAX > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > From: Dave Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 3:17 AM > To: metlist > Subject: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana > > > Hi there, > I have just read Mr. Norton's article in this quarter's Meteorite magazine > on Putorana where he speculated that the iron in the basalt was derived from > mantle plumes conducting iron from the core to the magma chambers in the > lithosphere - I was just wondering how actually plausible that mechanism > actually was. > I thought that a more likely scenario for the creation of Putorana iron may > have been the effect of a magmatic plume coming into contact with a highly > carbonaceous sedimentary deposit and the iron compounds are then reduced to > native iron (much in the same way that commercial iron is produced by > reacting with coke). I accept that the sedimentary deposits would have to > be subducted to quite some depths before the appropriate temperature and > pressures arose, but it still seems more likely a scenario to me than a > outer liquid core streamer of iron travelling a couple of thousand > kilometres upwards, against gravity and still keeping the iron in a liquid > enough state to mix with magma. > > Any ideas? I wonder if there is any overriding chemical evidence that the > iron is sourced from the core rather than liberated as part of a reduction > of mantle silicates and oxides (possibly the presence of Ni in the iron is > the evidence that supports the core theory - I dunno!) > > Don't laugh at me if I have written a load of rubbish here! I need to learn > and only by thinking about this stuff and making gaffs will I learn > anything - some of you people out there know more about Geology than I will > EVER learn, so I bow to your undeniably profound knowledge!!! > > Ideas/opinions please! > > -- > In gentle decay, > dave > > IMCA #0092 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) > > http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html > > http://www.meteoritecollectors.org > > "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. > However, it won't fit into my signature file" > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana
Thanks for the comments Allan. One thing I find interesting is the brecciated nature of the basaltic clasts that make up Putorana. Seems odd in basalts. Allan? matt - Original Message - From: "Treiman, Allan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "metlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana > Hi, all - > > With Matt Morgan's help, we've just finished a paper > on the Putorana rock, and it should be published in > July (?) with the Meteoritical Society meeting abstracts. > The paper is bigger and more formal than the article(s) > in Meteorite . If you'd like a preprint, send me your email > or postal address! > >Personally, I'm not real keen on the Putorana iron coming > from the Earth's core. It seems like an awfully long way for > heavy stuff like iron metal to rise (or be carried up). > The Diskoisland metal supposedly formed when molten basalt > hit coal seams. The reaction was like smelting - iron oxide in the > basalt magma reacted with the coal, and produced iron metal. That > doesn't seem to work for the Putorana stuff, as the basalt is too rich > in iron -- if iron had been smelted out of it, the basalt would be poor > in iron. > My current guess is that the iron metal came from iron sulfide > liquid. There's a lot of iron sulfide ore in the Putorana/Noril'sk area, > so having sulfide is not a problem. Perhaps the sulfide could get > "roasted" naturally, and drive the sulfur off into the air. The iron would > be left behind as metal. Just an idea. Perhaps our Russian friends > know more about Putorana?? > >Cheers! > Allan > > Allan H. Treiman > Lunar and Planetary Institute > 3600 Bay Area Boulevard > Houston TX 77058-1113 >281-486-2117 >281-486-2162 FAX > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > From: Dave Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 3:17 AM > To: metlist > Subject: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana > > > Hi there, > I have just read Mr. Norton's article in this quarter's Meteorite magazine > on Putorana where he speculated that the iron in the basalt was derived from > mantle plumes conducting iron from the core to the magma chambers in the > lithosphere - I was just wondering how actually plausible that mechanism > actually was. > I thought that a more likely scenario for the creation of Putorana iron may > have been the effect of a magmatic plume coming into contact with a highly > carbonaceous sedimentary deposit and the iron compounds are then reduced to > native iron (much in the same way that commercial iron is produced by > reacting with coke). I accept that the sedimentary deposits would have to > be subducted to quite some depths before the appropriate temperature and > pressures arose, but it still seems more likely a scenario to me than a > outer liquid core streamer of iron travelling a couple of thousand > kilometres upwards, against gravity and still keeping the iron in a liquid > enough state to mix with magma. > > Any ideas? I wonder if there is any overriding chemical evidence that the > iron is sourced from the core rather than liberated as part of a reduction > of mantle silicates and oxides (possibly the presence of Ni in the iron is > the evidence that supports the core theory - I dunno!) > > Don't laugh at me if I have written a load of rubbish here! I need to learn > and only by thinking about this stuff and making gaffs will I learn > anything - some of you people out there know more about Geology than I will > EVER learn, so I bow to your undeniably profound knowledge!!! > > Ideas/opinions please! > > -- > In gentle decay, > dave > > IMCA #0092 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) > > http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html > > http://www.meteoritecollectors.org > > "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. > However, it won't fit into my signature file" > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana
Hi, all - With Matt Morgan's help, we've just finished a paper on the Putorana rock, and it should be published in July (?) with the Meteoritical Society meeting abstracts. The paper is bigger and more formal than the article(s) in Meteorite . If you'd like a preprint, send me your email or postal address! Personally, I'm not real keen on the Putorana iron coming from the Earth's core. It seems like an awfully long way for heavy stuff like iron metal to rise (or be carried up). The Diskoisland metal supposedly formed when molten basalt hit coal seams. The reaction was like smelting - iron oxide in the basalt magma reacted with the coal, and produced iron metal. That doesn't seem to work for the Putorana stuff, as the basalt is too rich in iron -- if iron had been smelted out of it, the basalt would be poor in iron. My current guess is that the iron metal came from iron sulfide liquid. There's a lot of iron sulfide ore in the Putorana/Noril'sk area, so having sulfide is not a problem. Perhaps the sulfide could get "roasted" naturally, and drive the sulfur off into the air. The iron would be left behind as metal. Just an idea. Perhaps our Russian friends know more about Putorana?? Cheers! Allan Allan H. Treiman Lunar and Planetary Institute 3600 Bay Area Boulevard Houston TX 77058-1113 281-486-2117 281-486-2162 FAX [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dave Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 3:17 AM To: metlist Subject: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana Hi there, I have just read Mr. Norton's article in this quarter's Meteorite magazine on Putorana where he speculated that the iron in the basalt was derived from mantle plumes conducting iron from the core to the magma chambers in the lithosphere - I was just wondering how actually plausible that mechanism actually was. I thought that a more likely scenario for the creation of Putorana iron may have been the effect of a magmatic plume coming into contact with a highly carbonaceous sedimentary deposit and the iron compounds are then reduced to native iron (much in the same way that commercial iron is produced by reacting with coke). I accept that the sedimentary deposits would have to be subducted to quite some depths before the appropriate temperature and pressures arose, but it still seems more likely a scenario to me than a outer liquid core streamer of iron travelling a couple of thousand kilometres upwards, against gravity and still keeping the iron in a liquid enough state to mix with magma. Any ideas? I wonder if there is any overriding chemical evidence that the iron is sourced from the core rather than liberated as part of a reduction of mantle silicates and oxides (possibly the presence of Ni in the iron is the evidence that supports the core theory - I dunno!) Don't laugh at me if I have written a load of rubbish here! I need to learn and only by thinking about this stuff and making gaffs will I learn anything - some of you people out there know more about Geology than I will EVER learn, so I bow to your undeniably profound knowledge!!! Ideas/opinions please! -- In gentle decay, dave IMCA #0092 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html http://www.meteoritecollectors.org "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. However, it won't fit into my signature file" __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana
This theory makes sense to me. I'll have to go read Norton's article that is sitting on my heap of things to read someday, but I the idea of elemental iron from the core making it to the Earth's surface seems a bit far-fetched. Reduction of magmatic iron seems more plausible--but then I'm primarily a soft-rock geologist. Any geochemists have any thoughts on this? --Paul - Original Message - From: "Dave Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "metlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 4:17 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana > Hi there, > I have just read Mr. Norton's article in this quarter's Meteorite magazine > on Putorana where he speculated that the iron in the basalt was derived from > mantle plumes conducting iron from the core to the magma chambers in the > lithosphere - I was just wondering how actually plausible that mechanism > actually was. > I thought that a more likely scenario for the creation of Putorana iron may > have been the effect of a magmatic plume coming into contact with a highly > carbonaceous sedimentary deposit and the iron compounds are then reduced to > native iron (much in the same way that commercial iron is produced by > reacting with coke). I accept that the sedimentary deposits would have to > be subducted to quite some depths before the appropriate temperature and > pressures arose, but it still seems more likely a scenario to me than a > outer liquid core streamer of iron travelling a couple of thousand > kilometres upwards, against gravity and still keeping the iron in a liquid > enough state to mix with magma. > > Any ideas? I wonder if there is any overriding chemical evidence that the > iron is sourced from the core rather than liberated as part of a reduction > of mantle silicates and oxides (possibly the presence of Ni in the iron is > the evidence that supports the core theory - I dunno!) > > Don't laugh at me if I have written a load of rubbish here! I need to learn > and only by thinking about this stuff and making gaffs will I learn > anything - some of you people out there know more about Geology than I will > EVER learn, so I bow to your undeniably profound knowledge!!! > > Ideas/opinions please! > > -- > In gentle decay, > dave > > IMCA #0092 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) > > http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html > > http://www.meteoritecollectors.org > > "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. > However, it won't fit into my signature file" > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana
If anybody wants some Putorana, email me. matt morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dave Harris Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 2:17 AM To: metlist Subject: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana Hi there, I have just read Mr. Norton's article in this quarter's Meteorite magazine on Putorana where he speculated that the iron in the basalt was derived from mantle plumes conducting iron from the core to the magma chambers in the lithosphere - I was just wondering how actually plausible that mechanism actually was. I thought that a more likely scenario for the creation of Putorana iron may have been the effect of a magmatic plume coming into contact with a highly carbonaceous sedimentary deposit and the iron compounds are then reduced to native iron (much in the same way that commercial iron is produced by reacting with coke). I accept that the sedimentary deposits would have to be subducted to quite some depths before the appropriate temperature and pressures arose, but it still seems more likely a scenario to me than a outer liquid core streamer of iron travelling a couple of thousand kilometres upwards, against gravity and still keeping the iron in a liquid enough state to mix with magma. Any ideas? I wonder if there is any overriding chemical evidence that the iron is sourced from the core rather than liberated as part of a reduction of mantle silicates and oxides (possibly the presence of Ni in the iron is the evidence that supports the core theory - I dunno!) Don't laugh at me if I have written a load of rubbish here! I need to learn and only by thinking about this stuff and making gaffs will I learn anything - some of you people out there know more about Geology than I will EVER learn, so I bow to your undeniably profound knowledge!!! Ideas/opinions please! -- In gentle decay, dave IMCA #0092 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html http://www.meteoritecollectors.org "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. However, it won't fit into my signature file" __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] puzzling Putorana
Dear Entropy and other Listees, On this one, I side with "gentle decay". Humbug, etc. to the knowledge against the probability of physics! Dirk Ross...Tokyo Dave Harris wrote: > Hi there, > I have just read Mr. Norton's article in this quarter's Meteorite magazine > on Putorana where he speculated that the iron in the basalt was derived from > mantle plumes conducting iron from the core to the magma chambers in the > lithosphere - I was just wondering how actually plausible that mechanism > actually was. > I thought that a more likely scenario for the creation of Putorana iron may > have been the effect of a magmatic plume coming into contact with a highly > carbonaceous sedimentary deposit and the iron compounds are then reduced to > native iron (much in the same way that commercial iron is produced by > reacting with coke). I accept that the sedimentary deposits would have to > be subducted to quite some depths before the appropriate temperature and > pressures arose, but it still seems more likely a scenario to me than a > outer liquid core streamer of iron travelling a couple of thousand > kilometres upwards, against gravity and still keeping the iron in a liquid > enough state to mix with magma. > > Any ideas? I wonder if there is any overriding chemical evidence that the > iron is sourced from the core rather than liberated as part of a reduction > of mantle silicates and oxides (possibly the presence of Ni in the iron is > the evidence that supports the core theory - I dunno!) > > Don't laugh at me if I have written a load of rubbish here! I need to learn > and only by thinking about this stuff and making gaffs will I learn > anything - some of you people out there know more about Geology than I will > EVER learn, so I bow to your undeniably profound knowledge!!! > > Ideas/opinions please! > > -- > In gentle decay, > dave > > IMCA #0092 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for IMCA member contact) > > http://www.meteorites.ic24.net/index.html > > http://www.meteoritecollectors.org > > "I have a proof that x^n+y^n=z^n never has integer solutions for n>2. > However, it won't fit into my signature file" > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
