Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
with another. Comparing this Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They are two totally different falls with two totally different stories. The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Greetings List, Interesting topics. Mike is right on about the Canadians. They don't play games. The former curator of the Canadian Collection was scanning ebay meteorite auctions for many years for Canadian Cultural Property including meteorites. The only way I was able to figure this out was a friend offer me some diamonds he had purchased to sell on ebay for him. They were Canadian. I received an inquiry as to where I had obtained my diamonds from Canada from the Canadian Mounted Police!! I let David know they were wondering (I had no doubt what so ever that David had purchased these legally). After David told the police they were purchased from one of the largest diamond companies and families in Canada, they backed way off but left a negative opinion in my mind that you can't purchase Canadian items without having to justify resaling them later. We later then found out about the meteorite snoop. It also fit in that he use to visit Tucson and Denver. I thought to build up their collection, but also to check for Canadian material. All my best to all. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
realise how much a fall can vary until Amgala (Oum Dreyga). I purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and Moss. So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what the other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all you like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a fall. And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They are two totally different falls with two totally different stories. The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010 ) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
. The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be too high for anyone to buy. A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. But let's have some fun. Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a pound of space, between the two of them. And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a carit works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. $2,000 combined cost. If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g would give them $500. If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. That's a profit of $23,000. And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of 500g. ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? I would assume so. A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. Regards, Jason On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I didn't realise how much a fall can vary until Amgala (Oum Dreyga). I purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and Moss. So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what the other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all you like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a fall. And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They are two totally different falls with two totally different stories. The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an immature and unsophisticated marketplace. Their words. snip Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, unsuphisticated) hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those serious collectors who you talked to can go screw themselves. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
All, Maybe the two guys are just publicly asking $50 a gram, so that the Canadian Government will have to pony up the $50/g to buy what they want from them (and or to buy from the other land owners) but in reality they are NOT expecting to sell any to the rocks for ANY price at this time? Maybe after they get their export permits, then they will reconsider what the market will allow at that time? Or maybe with some negotiation, they might be able to be talked down to $5/g? Not always is the asking price the actual end sales price. It is their business, so they can run it any way they like. But we should understand that undoubtedly there is more here than meets the eye. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Is this in Canadian dollars or US dollars? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 12/7/2008 10:30:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe the two guys are just publicly asking $50 a gram, so that the Canadian Government will have to pony up the $50/g to buy what they want from them All, You know, on further thought, IF the Canadian Government would be happy to pay Sonny and McCartney ($50 x 1,000g = ) $50,000 for their finds, who are we to say that they shouldn't? I am sure the Canadian Government can afford to pay $50,000. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
cost more than American meteorites. So if the officials want to take advantage of their pre-emption to purchase a meteorite and if they have to heal the severe restriction of the personal laws of the owner in compensating him paying a fair market value, they have to pay more than without that law. That all was concerning now new falls. Much worse are restrictive laws regarding finds, whenever a searcher, finder, owner is not rewarded for his finds, either by the state or by being allowed to market it by his own. I gave the example Libya already. In 5 years the hunters were active, 1084 meteorites were found. In the following 7 years, when they stayed home, only 45 meteorites were recovered. Take Egypt. A desert country. It has less meteorites than small humid Germany and is one of the few desert countries, which completely is taken out from the great hot desert rush. Australia - the better Canada - A fine place to hunt. Please set the 7 (seven) finds of the recent 10 years made in Australia against the numerous desert finds the US-American amateur hunters made in USA in this decade. So my point is, to come to a more rational debate. Protectionism was an attempt, that science and the nations keep and obtain more meteorites. All hard data demonstrate, that the effect was obverse. The countries with restrictions dramatically suffered - much much less meteorites were found and landed in the institutions as in the times where no restrictions took place or in comparable countries without protectionism. So obviously protectionism is improper for the intended goals and brought opposite results. And should be history now. Amen Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von al mitterling Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 13:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Michael Farmer Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Greetings List, Interesting topics. Mike is right on about the Canadians. They don't play games. The former curator of the Canadian Collection was scanning ebay meteorite auctions for many years for Canadian Cultural Property including meteorites. The only way I was able to figure this out was a friend offer me some diamonds he had purchased to sell on ebay for him. They were Canadian. I received an inquiry as to where I had obtained my diamonds from Canada from the Canadian Mounted Police!! I let David know they were wondering (I had no doubt what so ever that David had purchased these legally). After David told the police they were purchased from one of the largest diamond companies and families in Canada, they backed way off but left a negative opinion in my mind that you can't purchase Canadian items without having to justify resaling them later. We later then found out about the meteorite snoop. It also fit in that he use to visit Tucson and Denver. I thought to build up their collection, but also to check for Canadian material. All my best to all. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being at a loss for words, I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on my point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. Low-end numbers being bandied about? On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are low-end numbers? I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an immature and unsophisticated marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d = __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an immature and unsophisticated marketplace. Their words. snip Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, unsuphisticated) hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those serious collectors who you talked to can go screw themselves. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Jason, Darryl All, Darryl is right. This industry is famous for pricing/value issues. Many dealers (not all, of course...just many) have brought new material to the market, sold it for a premium to make their profit, then dumped the remaining material once the market has been satisfied as if this were the retail clothing business (will provide an explanation here if it's needed) on countless occasions. It's hard to imaging that this might inspire confidence in a serious collector. The low-end numbers part of Darryl's email is secondary to this, and it's not clear which numbers he's referring to within the framework of this discussion, anyway. Government intervention -- such as is present in Canada -- has a way of adding to the chaos around specimen value (and generating some tragedies along the way, a la Tagish Lake), too. It's great that Sonny and McCartney were hunting this fall early, and hopefully as this continues to happen the message about the importance of recovering material and the need for a strong incentive to make that possible gets out. International laws regarding meteorite recovery and export have virtually all been established as a bolt-on package to other legislation around artifacts, etc, and for the most part these decisions have been made by officials who have probably never even seen a meteorite (let alone developed an understanding of the field and related relevant issues). Back to values and suppliers contacting collectors directly in the North African falls: this is illustrative of the near absence of a conventional distribution channel, and there is risk that comes with acquiring material in that manner. The internet has made it possible for just about anyone to be a dealer and these challenges will likely continue to fester until an international organization truly establishes some standards in this arena around verifiable provenance, prioritizing meteorite recovery over politics, proper curation, collection transfer protocol and the like. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:02 AM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. Low-end numbers being bandied about? On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are low-end numbers? I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
B-I-N-G-O. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:27 PM To: Jason Utas Cc: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being at a loss for words, I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on my point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. Low-end numbers being bandied about? On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are low-end numbers? I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an immature and unsophisticated marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d = __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren All, Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business, and classless quips won't serve the debate well here. We have recovered more and more material over time because the incentive (i.e. money, which, by definition, rich people happen to have) to do so has increased in advance of the recoveries themselves. There is plenty of material for those who want to have fun in an immature, unsuphisticated (sic) arena, and that's great. The desire (i.e. how much money one is willing to pay) for a lot of this material (not all, of course), however, does not generate the kind of incentive to motivate top-flight meteorite hunters to get on planes, risk their own capital and time and energy (and necks, in some cases) to find epic meteorites. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an immature and unsophisticated marketplace. Their words. snip Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, unsuphisticated) hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those serious collectors who you talked to can go screw themselves. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Meteorites and Market? I have always my difficulties. A collectors market? Hmm 71 million$ for a Warhol here, 40 milions for a van Gogh there, 2.5 million for a Macke here, 120 millions for a Klimt there... And the stuff we collect is rarer than these... (In principle it is bizarre to discuss, whether a Bassikonou or a Mali should cost 50 cents, 1$, 3$ or 1000$ or a Moon 1000$ or 10,000,000 isn't it?) Imagine, if only a single of these collectors buying such collectibles will discover meteorites as a field of collecting. Eeeek! Once such a sum spend like for such a painting - and bom - there is no meteorite market anymore, because there are no meteorites left :-) Any estimates, which annual volumes in total are moved in the meteorite market? Ebay-fanatics - has one of you ever noted how many $$$ are actually sold (sold not offered) in meteorites there per week? Would be interesting. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Darryl Pitt Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:28 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:27:44 -0500, you wrote: I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? If there is something that I want, I buy it to keep, not for some future resale value. So if I pay, say, $50 a gram for something now, and a year from now, it is selling for $5 a gram, that just means that I can now buy 10 times as much. And if it falls to 50 cents a gram, I can buy 10 times as much again. Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them. As a computer hobbiest, I spent $40 per megabyte for the first memory expansions I added to my PC ($160 for 4 MB). Last week, I spent one penny per megabyte ($20 for 4096 MB). I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: Darren All, Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business Here's the thing-- for you, it is a business. For me, it isn't. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi Carl, Yes-yes, of course this is about rarity, but the valuation of meteorites frequently has so much to do with circumstances of the fall and recovery, and that's where it's not quite the same as other collectibles. There are dozens and dozens of really colorful examples which underscore this dynamic. The notion of rarity is not intrinsic to scientific importance. A-L-L-E-N-D-E. And to use your example, if Carancas occurred in Africa is it worth more or less? Canada or Montana? Detroit or Corsica? And if in Corsica, what about if it occurred in Bastia or instead fell on a nude beach in front of a crowd? In short, if you accept there are a host of variables determining valuations, the added value of a bolide video makes that meteorite worth more. And then it only seems to follow---everything else being the same--that a spectacular video would render a higher valuation for the material than a mediocre video. With this in mind, even if there are 100 kg of material of the Canadian event, it's my opinion that it's worth more than $10/g. Thanks for your thoughtful note and I hope meteorite collecting provides you with a great source of enjoyment. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Carl Esparza wrote: Darryl, With all due respect, As you know I am new at this and I tend to hear the same sort of things from friends about meteorite collecting. But as a life long art and antique dealer i see it a little different. Yes, meteorites have the curb appeal and all of the hype but the main thing that should be driving the value is rarity. Yes, a fireball is a rarity but not really ( maybe?) . Lets face it we have all seen incredible fireballs. I think , since recent studies have shown that most material that passes though our atmosphere does not show crust and therefore is missed so, we miss a lot of rare material. Now if we ever discover an unusual material that fell that would be something and rare. The way I see our scientists study habits is primarily pigeonholing the material. If it ain't covered with the black stuff they just toss it aside. Even though they know damn well about the recent studies which had real rocks attached to the cone of a rocket's re-entry and it's results. They also know much more about the types of rocks and their layering textures on other planets and yet still not one find with layering. Darryl, to me that is what is wrong with this hobby. No direction. There should be way more scientists willing to look at more than just the obvious and not assume it to be earthen because it has layers or no fusion crust. But back to the point . Rarity is what creates value and falls like Carancas truly are rare events. It not only crated a crater but it did it with a very friable material and it's cosmochemestry is being described as inexplicable. Having said that. I have yet to read one single scientific paper on the subject. These so called scientists in this field totally dropped the ball on this extraordinary information. And so the value plummets on material that truly is rare and desireable as such. Thanks again Carl Carl Esparza meteoritemax IMCA 5829 --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: Jason Utas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 8:38 AM Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an immature and unsophisticated marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d = On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Hello Jeff, All, The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren, It is not a business for me; I am simply a collector. That said, whether you like it or not, it is a business in the aggregate. My point about class warfare -- apart from it being a weak platform entirely -- is that if one wants to engage in it one should perhaps at least consider having some (class, that is). You wrote: Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it. It would be hard to use logic to respond to that thinking... Within the rapidly advancing world of technological RD, it is obvious that this dynamic will exist; that said, I'm not sure why anyone would wish for it in places where it needn't be. If you only expect to lose money as you spend it, the aforementioned class envy will no doubt persist. Just because others may have used different -- one might say more prudent -- thinking in engaging in this arena, it doesn't mean...oh, never mind... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:12 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: Darren All, Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business Here's the thing-- for you, it is a business. For me, it isn't. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Martin, I can't find it at the moment, but someone sent me what seemed to be a quality analysis of eBay meteorite volume fairly recently which indicated that the annual market was about $2,000,000 USD. The figure was extrapolated from a fairly narrow window (either a week or a month). Best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:01 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Meteorites and Market? I have always my difficulties. A collectors market? Hmm 71 million$ for a Warhol here, 40 milions for a van Gogh there, 2.5 million for a Macke here, 120 millions for a Klimt there... And the stuff we collect is rarer than these... (In principle it is bizarre to discuss, whether a Bassikonou or a Mali should cost 50 cents, 1$, 3$ or 1000$ or a Moon 1000$ or 10,000,000 isn't it?) Imagine, if only a single of these collectors buying such collectibles will discover meteorites as a field of collecting. Eeeek! Once such a sum spend like for such a painting - and bom - there is no meteorite market anymore, because there are no meteorites left :-) Any estimates, which annual volumes in total are moved in the meteorite market? Ebay-fanatics - has one of you ever noted how many $$$ are actually sold (sold not offered) in meteorites there per week? Would be interesting. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Darryl Pitt Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:28 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a business will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract serious collectors, which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is too cheap? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a get rich quick situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much money, then the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a feedback loop. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:43 -0500, you wrote: having some (class, that is). You wrote: Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it. It would be hard to use logic to respond to that thinking... Why? What is illogical about that thinking? When you see something that you like, do you think gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it? The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican. (wait, I didn't say that) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi Again, Darren... Gotta jump in for a minute before taking off Two very different thoughts were thrown together and the result is a bit confusing. I was not suggesting to keep prices high. Oh my golly, no. I am only attempting to suggest that a longer view should be taken and that it would be nice if an effort were made to reduce the number of pricing anomalies. By the way, most wealthy collectors I know do not buy common specimens. The involvement of such collectors simply provides increased stability by driving overall demand which enhances the value of all of our collections---not a bad thing. It's going to be a long, long time before any of us have to worry about an inability to be able to snag cheap meteorites. All best and wishing everyone a nice Sunday! Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a business will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract serious collectors, which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is too cheap? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a get rich quick situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much money, then the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a feedback loop. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren/All, From the perspective of the customer, Darren, I'd agree with a lot of what you've said below. Your example has more to do with market efficiencies and the removal of unnecessary costs from a channel, though, and I don't think this is what Darryl was driving towards. Meteorites are different from flat screen TVs. For all intents and purposes, everyone knows what a flat screen TV is and that they come at a fairly predictable price. Very, very few know much about meteorites (it's easy to forget that from the vantage point of this list), and even those predisposed (say, astronomy buffs) to be interested in acquiring them tend to not realize this is possible. As we continue expanding our reach into space; as extremely effective marketers such as Darryl get the word out to more and more across the globe; as science continues to unveil more fascinations locked up within meteorites; as the global population grows and the internet bandwidth continues making that growing world smaller; as all of these things happen, more and more human beings will be interested in acquiring meteorites and it will drive specimen values up (to where they should be, given an efficient marketplace distributing them, which we don't yet have) and -- the best part -- more and more people will be inspired by the electric feeling (as Norton put it well) one gets in holding a rock in your hand older than the one you're standing one. It seems inevitable, excepting other possible short-term reserves such as the Sahara holding back this progression as weathered finds hit the market for a while, that the pace of collector growth will far outstrip the supply of meteorites over the long haul. You also wrote: Why? What is illogical about that thinking [THAT IT'S A GOOD THING TO SEE THE VALUE OF THINGS FALL AFTER ONE PURCHASES THEM]? When you see something that you like, do you think gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it? The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican. It goes without saying that you are not a Republican, but I'm not either. We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of barter. It also motivates people to take all sorts of risks in search of the meteorites you seem to enjoy yourself. The staggering facts associated with meteorites at least provide some wonderful perspective to those of us willing to contemplate it, and I think I'll go spend some time with a few now... Best regards, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:26 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a business will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract serious collectors, which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is too cheap? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a get rich quick situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500, you wrote: We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of barter. You're obviously a fan of some science fiction, with the Star Trek references. My favorite possible (if possible) future societies in SF are post-scarcity, post-singularity ones. So, it may be (is) just a fantasy, but it is exactly the type of world I strive towards and wish to live in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=post+scarcity+societybtnG=Google+Searchaq=3oq=post+scarcity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
which were very different from those of the grown-ups. I myself own a flower, he continued his conversation with the businessman, which I water every day. I own three volcanoes, which I clean out every week (for I also clean out the one that is extinct; one never knows). It is of some use to my volcanoes , and it is of some use to my flower, that I own them. But you are of no use to the stars... The businessman opened his mouth, but he found nothing to say in answer. And the little prince went away. The grown-ups are certainly altogether extraordinary, he said simply, talking to himself as he continued on his journey. Happy Holidays Doug -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:43 -0500, you wrote: having some (class, that is). You wrote: Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it. It would be hard to use logic to respond to that thinking... Why? What is illogical about that thinking? When you see something that you like, do you think gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it? The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican. (wait, I didn't say that) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Going to sign off after this one, Darren, as it's now way off topic. I'm not a science fiction fan at all, really, and wouldn't know without first being told what I've written that came from the annals of Star Trek. I think it's great that you're striving for that, as we're all well served in striving for something. Best wishes in your pursuit... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:22 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500, you wrote: We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of barter. You're obviously a fan of some science fiction, with the Star Trek references. My favorite possible (if possible) future societies in SF are post-scarcity, post-singularity ones. So, it may be (is) just a fantasy, but it is exactly the type of world I strive towards and wish to live in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=post+scarcity+societybtnG=Google+Searc haq=3oq=post+scarcity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being at a loss for words, I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on my point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I had a dream, Jason. Meteorites were free for everyone! ...but nobody was going to look for them anymore I'm only not sure yet, whether it was a good dream or a nightmare. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 23:58 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall order given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to your message as there were other contributors to the thread, and my statement kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents in valuation. Jeez. For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for just $2/gram at Bonhams today. ...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced. Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega- low and mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all ultimately benefit. Sincerely / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being at a loss for words, I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on my point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darryl, Rants? At least I give you the courtesy of addressing everything you say. When one decides to...skipparts of a message he (or she) is attempting to refute, it simply gives the impression that there are things they would prefer not to have to (or can't) debate, probably because it wouldn't support their claims. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't deal with a single page of text, it's your problem, not mine. With regards to your statement, no, not really. You referred to low-end numbers being bandied about, without acknowledging my high estimate for Park Forest. Which would have rendered your entire message a moot point, had you taken it into account. You were referring directly to my post. Hardly standing alone. You might also note that your message was a direct reply to me, as well as to the meteorite-list. I know; I was there. The estimate was $500-700, but it wouldn't fetch an initial price ofI forget the price at which it was initially started. The auctioneer let it down to $200. Then $190. The final price was $200 - a mere $1.67/g. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall order given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to your message as there were other contributors to the thread, and my statement kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents in valuation. Jeez. For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for just $2/gram at Bonhams today. ...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced. Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega-low and mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all ultimately benefit. Sincerely / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own gravity. That's all I'm trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Unfortunately, a 2 gram piece for $100- today will probably sell on ebay for $10- next August. That is my prediction. Don Rawlings --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Don Merchant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Don Merchant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Don Merchant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 2:58 AM I wanted to add my 2 cents to this..well actually my $50.00 to this post for the new Canadian Meteorite for Sale. One of the must categories I like to a collect in my collection are Recent or New Witnessed Falls, even if their not Hammers. A Meteorite being New /Recent/Witnessed and sharing the World Major News Stories carries a more desire for me to want a part of that history!! So with that said if anyone comes across a 1 gm or 2 gm piece or can relay this email to a reputable source willing to sell this meteorite to me for $50 a gm for 1 to 2 grams, have them please contact me ASAP. I will make an official request for this meteorite here and now. My feeling is that this offer will not be accepted anytime soon. Why? Because when something new comes along it seems the price is usually put higher then it should be at first regardless of it's composition. Yes you will get buyers willing at any cost to have a piece and there's nothing wrong with sellers/dealers making a few bucks for the work/efforts involved, I understand and accept this. But... to control the price the true power is in the Buyers. If the Buyers don't buy at that set price then eventually it is lowered until Buyers will buy. There really is truth in the power of numbers, meaning if all us collectors stick together and do not buy, the price will eventually come down. A dealer can say well heck with it I'll keep it in my collection but...sooner then later that dealer will have a big collection and no revenue which will eventually lead to a real IMPACT financially that the dealer wants no part of, especially in his/her collection! So I'm not gonna save face here.. lol I am a collector with a love for this hobby and weakness for this hobby. I figure if I can get this meteorite for $50 a gm now, I would be saving money instead of my passion for meteorites corrupting my common sense to hold off until prices drop. I always seem to allow my self to get lured in like a B-ass because I'm weak, I need it, I want it, I can't wait lol! I know many of you out there feel my PAIN!! So.I have $100 set aside for a 2 gm. piece for the first legit seller to contact me for the exchange! I will keep all of you posted on this offer and how long it takes! By the way I meant no offence in this email to ANY Collector, Seller or Dealer in any way shape or form, I can only say just get that 2 gm. piece to me NOW!! lol Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale I am not sure the discussion really centers on their asking price of $50.00 gram. It sort of morphed from Canadian Government buying price to retail price, to initial price etc. Someone suggested a piece be sold on eBay to set the price. Well, that was done with Cali and Puerto Lapice, and the price was very high. But eBay will never set a price. Show me 50 Sikhote-Alin auctions and I will show you 50 different gram prices for Sikhote-Alin. My part in this is simply to sort of separate why some recent falls set record prices, and others seem to be down to earth, and where the Canada fall will likely end up. I sure do hope there is a lot, I want to find some and sell some and buy some, and the more material, the better for all. Canada can be happy, there will be room for both scientists and collectors to get their fill. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:32 PM All, I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the future...well at least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to come down later because a lot of it to comes on the market. But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't know how much TKW Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it is entirely possible that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe they are thinking Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let them go. If no one wants them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the ownership for the long haul. If they hold
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Steve, I am sorry, but your comment than they wont make profit at $50 or even $100 gram made me almost fall out of my chair! Lets see, a kilo at $50 gram = $50,000. Lets say half goes to the landowner, $25000.00 Plane ticket to Edmonton/Calgary/Saskatoon, all three less than $1000 if I want to go today. Rental car for a week, $500.00 Hotels and food for a week, another $800.00. Time, say $2500.00 other expenses, say another $1000 Still leaves over $18000.00 free. Please, what you are saying about values can be true, but lets not get retarded here. At that price some real money will be made for a week in the field. I should know, I have enough international hunts, and this one would be about the cheapest one out there. They deserve it, no question there, just dont try and say no profit will be made, that is a joke I have to call you on. International FALL chases I have done so I think I know about trip expedition expenses. Kendrapara, India Thuathe, Lesotho x 2 Bensour, Morocco Bilanga, Burkina Faso X 2 Berduc, Argentina Cali, colombia x 5 Carancas, Peru Ourique, Portugal Villabeto de la Pena, Spain Puerto Lapice, Spain Moss, Norway Tagish Lake, Canada --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:34 AM In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In my opinion, from the info I have seen I would be willing to pay more then $10 per gram for fresh material, however I do think $50 is simply too much for what looks to be an ordinary chondrite. I am hopefull that the material will not rust too bad during all this snow, and Im sure plenty of it will be available in Tucson as was metioned by someone else. That said, I would also like to buy a 2 gram or so piece of fresh material, but really would prefer not to pay much more then $20-$25 per gram... to me it would be worth that price, regardless of classification... my little girl keeps asking when I am getting one... This fall like the Carancas really got her interested in meteorites (this one even more) due to the media attention and wide availablitly of video footage. If anyone gets ahold of some and wants to sell or trade for a small sample, please let me know. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:34 PM In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 12/6/2008 4:47:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve, I am sorry, but your comment than they wont make profit at $50 or even $100 gram made me almost fall out of my chair! Lets see, a kilo at $50 gram = $50,000. Lets say half goes to the landowner, $25000.00 I'm sorry Mike, I was not aware they found a kilo's worth and that they got to keep a full half of what they found. I assumed they only had a few (or maybe several) specimens that the two of them were splitting between themselves and selling. However, at $50/g they might only sell 100 grams worth anyway, and at that rate, they would only have $5,000 cash to split BEFORE expenses. While that might not make them too much profit cash wise, it might let them keep some souvenirs for their private collections as mementos of the adventure. Not all dealers/hunters put 100% of what they find into retail inventory. Some do like to hold some things back. Maybe the question should be asked of McCartney and Sonny as to what their logic is for pricing their pieces where they did? Steve **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. I doubt the meteorite will oxidize much, at these temps, there is no more liquid water so they should be perfectly preserved for the most part. Michael Farmer --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 3:56 PM In my opinion, from the info I have seen I would be willing to pay more then $10 per gram for fresh material, however I do think $50 is simply too much for what looks to be an ordinary chondrite. I am hopefull that the material will not rust too bad during all this snow, and Im sure plenty of it will be available in Tucson as was metioned by someone else. That said, I would also like to buy a 2 gram or so piece of fresh material, but really would prefer not to pay much more then $20-$25 per gram... to me it would be worth that price, regardless of classification... my little girl keeps asking when I am getting one... This fall like the Carancas really got her interested in meteorites (this one even more) due to the media attention and wide availablitly of video footage. If anyone gets ahold of some and wants to sell or trade for a small sample, please let me know. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:34 PM In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 12/6/2008 5:01:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. I doubt the meteorite will oxidize much, at these temps, there is no more liquid water so they should be perfectly preserved for the most part. Michael Farmer *** All, Richard Herd, from the Canadian National Collection has been known in years past for going around to all of the meteorite dealer's rooms in Tucson looking for illegally exported Canadian Meteorites. I don't think he has ever found any, and if he did, I am not sure what legal recourse could be taken. But I doubt he would be taking the time to look if there wasn't something they could do if he got lucky. If there is anything for sale in Tucson, it will probably be under the tightest of secrecy, and I doubt any dealer would offer a C.O.A. specimen ID card with them, thus the provenance would be lost, and you might as well be buying a Juanchenge. Now, you might find some local Canadians finders, who might find it worthwhile to smuggle specimens over the border who might show up in Tucson, eh? Some deals out of the trunk of a rental car might go down in the parking lots, since someone not in the business, without a reputation to risk, might want to dump some cheap for some fast cash. But don't expect any in Michael Blood's auction. Again, with no documentation, and no export permits, I doubt many collectors will want to pay even 20% of a legit retail value. If they are going to be selling for $10/g later, MAYBE someone would pay $2/g for illegal booty, but I doubt it. Why? Unless one has a morbid desire to stick it to the Canadians, there would be little satisfaction since one couldn't tell anyone about it. OK, on second thought, there might be a few people who would want to stick it to the Canadians so maybe $3/g might be possible in the back alley's of the wild west of Tucson... :-) However, we are maybe more likely to see the new Canadian rocks being sold as some totally other fall. What if all of a sudden we see (North North American) NNA 001 and NNA 002 specimens submitted for classification with vague find coordinates??? I think the Nomenclature Committee is on record as saying they are NOT in the business to police the various nation's meteorite laws. It will be interesting if the Canadians would have more clout in making a case than the Algerian or Libyan's have been able to in getting that policy changed. I think the legal export papers, showing legal title, will add a substantial value to the rocks if and when they are allowed to come out. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 12/6/2008 5:31:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I doubt the meteorite will oxidize much, at these temps, there is no more liquid water so they should be perfectly preserved for the most part. Michael Farmer * Good Point Mike, Then again, if there is a lot of snow, and the ground gets real soggy when it melts off, rust could set in fairly quick. Especially if these would be H chondrites. Also, if there are strong rains in the spring that help melt off the snow, it could submerge some of these guys in water for some time. I know it only took one rainfall at Park Forest and rust was already appearing on some of the specimens almost immediately. Does anyone know how many feet of snow they get up there each winter? Do they get much rain in the spring? You know, one downfall is that if it takes waiting until May for the snow to all melt, then there would be the 6 month wait on those finds before they could get export permits, it could this time next year before any of these hit the market. The good thing, is that in a full year's time, we should have a much better idea on what a fair market value would be. So people don't have to worry too much about risking paying too much when they hit the market. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
--- On Sat, 12/6/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. Michael Farmer And yet, here we find ourselves discussing the availability of this new material. Several times I've joked about our pirate status and my fears of being hunted down by Boba Fett. If we are really expecting this stuff to appear illegally, and people to buy it, maybe I was wrong to joke. I worry that the tone of this discussion does not do our interests any favours. I'm going to shut up now. I accuse no-one and anything else I say may be classifed as pontification. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I didn't realise how much a fall can vary until Amgala (Oum Dreyga). I purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and Moss. So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what the other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all you like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a fall. And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They are two totally different falls with two totally different stories. The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
$50.00 gram? Wow Bargain time. This is a huge fall. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:03 AM Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hello Mike, Mike and List, Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian List members that only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to purchase a meteorite, then the land owner has the right to sell the meteorite(s). I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
No, they have that right before issuing the permit, not to buy everything. so, should they still want the meteorite, they can make an offer before issuing the permit. Mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:14 AM Hello Mike, Mike and List, Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian List members that only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to purchase a meteorite, then the land owner has the right to sell the meteorite(s). I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can be done to the Canadian scientists. Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I drove to Canada. I gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I returned to the states to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold the ownership of the rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the rock always remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary chondrite, there will be little research money given to study it. So the scientists probably will not be interested in buying much of it, since there will be little to no return on their investment. If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably will not want to pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money they will earn would be less than $1,000,000. The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one guy $650,000 for his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much MORE profit off the grant money to study that one. So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are submitted for an export permit, all the institutions in Canada will get to stall for 6 months to eventually end up saying that they don't want to buy any of them, providing that in the next 6 months they get more than enough donated to them for free, or if someone else wants to sell them some at below market values. I think the real question to be asked is HOW do they determine what the fair market value of the meteorites are? If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 a gram, does that then force the government to now pay $50/g IF any others are found and the finders choose to request the export permit, and a Canadian institution would to buy them first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all of their finds at their asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one of their finds up on Ebay, with the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped out of Canada, then Canadian bidders could help establish the retail value. Of course, a foreign buyer could bid and own it, even though they would not take actual physical possession of it. As I said before, IF the Canadian government is more than willing to pay a true fair market value on all found meteorites, then this is wonderful. It will encourage many people to go out and find meteorites in Canada knowing there is a reward waiting for their finds Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Mike, Mike and List, Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian List members that only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to purchase a meteorite, then the land owner has the right to sell the meteorite(s). I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. Best regards, Greg **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for springtime when the thaw comes. I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being found. Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem for a common chondrite, since the government will have plenty of material. Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set be a single sale. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can be done to the Canadian scientists. Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I drove to Canada. I gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I returned to the states to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold the ownership of the rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the rock always remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary chondrite, there will be little research money given to study it. So the scientists probably will not be interested in buying much of it, since there will be little to no return on their investment. If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably will not want to pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money they will earn would be less than $1,000,000. The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one guy $650,000 for his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much MORE profit off the grant money to study that one. So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are submitted for an export permit, all the institutions in Canada will get to stall for 6 months to eventually end up saying that they don't want to buy any of them, providing that in the next 6 months they get more than enough donated to them for free, or if someone else wants to sell them some at below market values. I think the real question to be asked is HOW do they determine what the fair market value of the meteorites are? If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 a gram, does that then force the government to now pay $50/g IF any others are found and the finders choose to request the export permit, and a Canadian institution would to buy them first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all of their finds at their asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one of their finds up on Ebay, with the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped out of Canada, then Canadian bidders could help establish the retail value. Of course, a foreign buyer could bid and own it, even though they would not take actual physical possession of it. As I said before, IF the Canadian government is more than willing to pay a true fair market value on all found meteorites, then this is wonderful. It will encourage many people to go out and find meteorites in Canada knowing there is a reward waiting for their finds Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Mike, Mike and List, Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian List members that only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to purchase a meteorite, then the land owner has the right to sell the meteorite(s). I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. Best regards, Greg **Make your life easier with all your friends, email
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for springtime when the thaw comes. I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being found. Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem for a common chondrite, since the government will have plenty of material. Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set be a single sale. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can be done to the Canadian scientists. Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I drove to Canada. I gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I returned to the states to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold the ownership of the rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the rock always remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary chondrite, there will be little research money given to study it. So the scientists probably will not be interested in buying much of it, since there will be little to no return on their investment. If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably will not want to pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money they will earn would be less than $1,000,000. The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one guy $650,000 for his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much MORE profit off the grant money to study that one. So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are submitted for an export permit, all the institutions in Canada will get to stall for 6 months to eventually end up saying that they don't want to buy any of them, providing that in the next 6 months they get more than enough donated to them for free, or if someone else wants to sell them some at below market values. I think the real question to be asked is HOW do they determine what the fair market value of the meteorites are? If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 a gram, does that then force the government to now pay $50/g IF any others are found and the finders choose to request the export permit, and a Canadian institution would to buy them first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all of their finds at their asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one of their finds up on Ebay, with the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped out of Canada, then Canadian bidders could help establish the retail value. Of course, a foreign buyer could bid and own it, even though they would not take actual physical possession of it. As I said before, IF the Canadian government is more than willing to pay a true fair market value on all found meteorites, then this is wonderful. It will encourage many people to go out and find meteorites in Canada knowing there is a reward waiting for their finds Steve Arnold #1
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
$50/gr. for a big fall? Time some months and the price go under...I waiting matteo - Original Message - Da : Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] A : Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Data : Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:03:30 -0700 Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an extraordinary event. Very little material found, half of what was found was dust. $100 gram was a fair price, as I sold out at that price in hours. The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as nearly all of the Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap now because people in Peru and Bolivia held too long, waiting for more money, while I and others filled up all buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because everyone already has it. Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their brother up there has found stones, so they will start trickling out. The videos make this fall a must have. I am not trying to set a price, just mulling over the last decade of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian government will not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish was a different creature, rarest meteorite almost that ever fell. We will see, it will take months to get export permits, time for TKW etc to firm up and tell us more. mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for springtime when the thaw comes. I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being found. Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem for a common chondrite, since the government will have plenty of material. Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set be a single sale. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can be done to the Canadian scientists. Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I drove to Canada. I gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I returned to the states to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold the ownership of the rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the rock always remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary chondrite, there will be little research money given to study it. So the scientists probably will not be interested in buying much of it, since there will be little to no return on their investment. If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably will not want to pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money they will earn would be less than $1,000,000. The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one guy $650,000 for his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much MORE profit off the grant money to study that one. So if any finds from
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Sounds sensible to me. - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an extraordinary event. Very little material found, half of what was found was dust. $100 gram was a fair price, as I sold out at that price in hours. The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as nearly all of the Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap now because people in Peru and Bolivia held too long, waiting for more money, while I and others filled up all buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because everyone already has it. Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their brother up there has found stones, so they will start trickling out. The videos make this fall a must have. I am not trying to set a price, just mulling over the last decade of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian government will not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish was a different creature, rarest meteorite almost that ever fell. We will see, it will take months to get export permits, time for TKW etc to firm up and tell us more. mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for springtime when the thaw comes. I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being found. Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem for a common chondrite, since the government will have plenty of material. Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set be a single sale. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can be done to the Canadian scientists. Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I drove to Canada. I gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I returned to the states to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold the ownership of the rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the rock always remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary chondrite, there will be little research money given to study it. So the scientists probably will not be interested in buying much of it, since there will be little to no return on their investment. If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably will not want to pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money they will earn would be less than $1,000,000. The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one guy $650,000 for his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much MORE profit off
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I see this as being true about the total weight available and thats why I think that the $50 per gram is way too much to pay for this fall. In a few months it will be able to be purchased for a much lower cost. Yes, I do think that the amount of video will add to the price some, but not much more then the typical new falls bring in. I think the price range given for this fall of between $1 - $10 per gram will be correct as more material becomes available. Its not like there is not alot available as Mike said about the Carancas fall... That said, I am looking for a sample of this, but wont pay $50 per gram for it. I for one am looking forward to the hunters trips and will wait until then to make my purchase unless someone offers me a sample at a more reasonable price. --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:22 PM This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an extraordinary event. Very little material found, half of what was found was dust. $100 gram was a fair price, as I sold out at that price in hours. The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as nearly all of the Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap now because people in Peru and Bolivia held too long, waiting for more money, while I and others filled up all buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because everyone already has it. Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their brother up there has found stones, so they will start trickling out. The videos make this fall a must have. I am not trying to set a price, just mulling over the last decade of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian government will not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish was a different creature, rarest meteorite almost that ever fell. We will see, it will take months to get export permits, time for TKW etc to firm up and tell us more. mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Greg Catterton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for springtime when the thaw comes. I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being found. Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem for a common chondrite, since the government will have plenty of material. Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set be a single sale. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Good Guys, Great hunting skills, but no Canadian should pay that price! Cheers, Roman Jirasek - Original Message - From: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Humm, Villalbeto, Moss, La Mancha/La Pice, Carancas, Cali, Zunhua, Hosur. to me there seems to be an evident trend, that new falls get much higher paid, than all the years before. 4 of the world-record prices for new falls happened the recent few years. Exceptions are the nevertheless marvellous falls from North-Africa. So 50$ appears not so unusual to me. Who offers first, makes the pace. Whether this price is more justified or less justified won't depend on the tkw which will be recovered, it will depend on how much material will be allowed to be exported. Two main price factors exist for a meteorite. Type of course, but the same important: availability. Pattern for new falls: 1) First expensive - few offerers, collectors worried to miss out... 2) Falling prices, more providers, more material 3) Raising prices, often up to a level higher to the first offers, cause the stuff has gone. Speed, with which that happens, depends on how much material is set free and on how many sellers get involved. In worst case, step 2 won't take place. But that's nothing new, all know that. So you can hope with the new fall, that large quantities will be exported or/and that HeenceKoons get some in, so that it ends offered by many collectors and on ebay too, and if you're lucky, you will catch it at 5$ or 10$. But you can be not so lucky, in waiting, waitingand only smaller quantities will hit the market, and after a while you will have to pay more than 50$, cause most could have been gone. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Roman Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Dezember 2008 01:22 An: Mike Jensen Cc: metlist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Good Guys, Great hunting skills, but no Canadian should pay that price! Cheers, Roman Jirasek - Original Message - From: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Martin, there are huge differences with these high-priced falls. No one could question Puerto Lapice, it sold out in minutes even at astronomical prices. less than 600 grams recovered, deserves every penny of the high price. Cali, 10 stones, 7 smashed houses, Colombia's first recovered fall, less than 500 grams TKW, H/L4, again, the market ate that one up, there is not a speck for sale as far as I know. Deserved the high price. Carancas, world-news making meteorite, little survived, Peru's first recovered fall, crater maker, what is not to like? Market absorbed it all, some straggler pieces dropped the price, but more due to market tapped out and world economic collapse than being overpriced. Moss, What more is there to say? The first CO3 fall in 60 years, NORWAY fall, all of 3.5 kilos recovered, 40% of which is in OSLO museum. That one deserved every penny it got, and how much Moss do you see out there these days? Zunhua, China house smasher, one stone, and when I started selling, there was just crumbs available. Later some large pieces were taken out of hiding, so price I think has come down a bit on that one. But not due to massive weight or anything. Hosur, I dint think it should be more than a few gram, large fall, massive pieces, and from India, already making it problematic. I do not own any. Canada, this is different, we already know that hundreds of stones have been recovered, with a TKW likely already over 50 kilograms. The fireball videos suggest hundreds of kilos will be found, it is also a H type, so not rare. This will not sustain $50.00 gram, and should not. This one will stabilize at a low-mid price. I can't wait to get/find one, but I will wait for the winter freeze to end before I go up there! Martin, you see, I can easily make an argument for all of the recent falls and their high prices. This can not be made of the new Canadian fall, at least not at this time. Should something happen and not much more found or allowed out of Canada, well, then the sky is the limit. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 6:14 PM Humm, Villalbeto, Moss, La Mancha/La Pice, Carancas, Cali, Zunhua, Hosur. to me there seems to be an evident trend, that new falls get much higher paid, than all the years before. 4 of the world-record prices for new falls happened the recent few years. Exceptions are the nevertheless marvellous falls from North-Africa. So 50$ appears not so unusual to me. Who offers first, makes the pace. Whether this price is more justified or less justified won't depend on the tkw which will be recovered, it will depend on how much material will be allowed to be exported. Two main price factors exist for a meteorite. Type of course, but the same important: availability. Pattern for new falls: 1) First expensive - few offerers, collectors worried to miss out... 2) Falling prices, more providers, more material 3) Raising prices, often up to a level higher to the first offers, cause the stuff has gone. Speed, with which that happens, depends on how much material is set free and on how many sellers get involved. In worst case, step 2 won't take place. But that's nothing new, all know that. So you can hope with the new fall, that large quantities will be exported or/and that HeenceKoons get some in, so that it ends offered by many collectors and on ebay too, and if you're lucky, you will catch it at 5$ or 10$. But you can be not so lucky, in waiting, waitingand only smaller quantities will hit the market, and after a while you will have to pay more than 50$, cause most could have been gone. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Roman Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Dezember 2008 01:22 An: Mike Jensen Cc: metlist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Good Guys, Great hunting skills, but no Canadian should pay that price! Cheers, Roman Jirasek - Original Message - From: Mike Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
All, I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the future...well at least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to come down later because a lot of it to comes on the market. But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't know how much TKW Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it is entirely possible that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe they are thinking Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let them go. If no one wants them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the ownership for the long haul. If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they will drop their asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they will raise their prices. Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't really mean that is what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that is just what it is worth to them? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I am not sure the discussion really centers on their asking price of $50.00 gram. It sort of morphed from Canadian Government buying price to retail price, to initial price etc. Someone suggested a piece be sold on eBay to set the price. Well, that was done with Cali and Puerto Lapice, and the price was very high. But eBay will never set a price. Show me 50 Sikhote-Alin auctions and I will show you 50 different gram prices for Sikhote-Alin. My part in this is simply to sort of separate why some recent falls set record prices, and others seem to be down to earth, and where the Canada fall will likely end up. I sure do hope there is a lot, I want to find some and sell some and buy some, and the more material, the better for all. Canada can be happy, there will be room for both scientists and collectors to get their fill. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:32 PM All, I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the future...well at least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to come down later because a lot of it to comes on the market. But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't know how much TKW Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it is entirely possible that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe they are thinking Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let them go. If no one wants them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the ownership for the long haul. If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they will drop their asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they will raise their prices. Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't really mean that is what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that is just what it is worth to them? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I wanted to add my 2 cents to this..well actually my $50.00 to this post for the new Canadian Meteorite for Sale. One of the must categories I like to a collect in my collection are Recent or New Witnessed Falls, even if their not Hammers. A Meteorite being New /Recent/Witnessed and sharing the World Major News Stories carries a more desire for me to want a part of that history!! So with that said if anyone comes across a 1 gm or 2 gm piece or can relay this email to a reputable source willing to sell this meteorite to me for $50 a gm for 1 to 2 grams, have them please contact me ASAP. I will make an official request for this meteorite here and now. My feeling is that this offer will not be accepted anytime soon. Why? Because when something new comes along it seems the price is usually put higher then it should be at first regardless of it's composition. Yes you will get buyers willing at any cost to have a piece and there's nothing wrong with sellers/dealers making a few bucks for the work/efforts involved, I understand and accept this. But... to control the price the true power is in the Buyers. If the Buyers don't buy at that set price then eventually it is lowered until Buyers will buy. There really is truth in the power of numbers, meaning if all us collectors stick together and do not buy, the price will eventually come down. A dealer can say well heck with it I'll keep it in my collection but...sooner then later that dealer will have a big collection and no revenue which will eventually lead to a real IMPACT financially that the dealer wants no part of, especially in his/her collection! So I'm not gonna save face here.. lol I am a collector with a love for this hobby and weakness for this hobby. I figure if I can get this meteorite for $50 a gm now, I would be saving money instead of my passion for meteorites corrupting my common sense to hold off until prices drop. I always seem to allow my self to get lured in like a B-ass because I'm weak, I need it, I want it, I can't wait lol! I know many of you out there feel my PAIN!! So.I have $100 set aside for a 2 gm. piece for the first legit seller to contact me for the exchange! I will keep all of you posted on this offer and how long it takes! By the way I meant no offence in this email to ANY Collector, Seller or Dealer in any way shape or form, I can only say just get that 2 gm. piece to me NOW!! lol Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale I am not sure the discussion really centers on their asking price of $50.00 gram. It sort of morphed from Canadian Government buying price to retail price, to initial price etc. Someone suggested a piece be sold on eBay to set the price. Well, that was done with Cali and Puerto Lapice, and the price was very high. But eBay will never set a price. Show me 50 Sikhote-Alin auctions and I will show you 50 different gram prices for Sikhote-Alin. My part in this is simply to sort of separate why some recent falls set record prices, and others seem to be down to earth, and where the Canada fall will likely end up. I sure do hope there is a lot, I want to find some and sell some and buy some, and the more material, the better for all. Canada can be happy, there will be room for both scientists and collectors to get their fill. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:32 PM All, I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the future...well at least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to come down later because a lot of it to comes on the market. But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't know how much TKW Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it is entirely possible that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe they are thinking Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let them go. If no one wants them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the ownership for the long haul. If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they will drop their asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they will raise their prices. Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't really mean that is what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that is just what it is worth to them? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0010
