Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
Some more information and a pic with better resoluttion on; http://spaceweather.com/ best, pekka s tracy latimer wrote: Those contrails are most peculiar! If anyone has ever skipped flat rocks on a lake, you know that sometimes on the last bounce, they go in at an angle. The flat rocks (or at least flat on a side) then fall through the water in a spiraling shimmy much like the trails these meteors left, wobbling from side to side. If the meteors are rather flat, that might also account for the airburst, as the stresses became too great on the large surface and forced the meteor to break up. Tracy Latimer From: Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:13:41 +0300 I really hope so too...;- Just got a note, we have now 2 pics with better quality and resolution on; http://www.ursa.fi/yhd/andromeda/meteori.html best, pekka s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc D. Fries writes: I m p r e s s i v e picture! When I saw that twisted trail, my first i m p r e s s i o n was: This looks a bit like the lingering dust trail of the Tagish Lake meteorite - in other words, maybe they find something friable, something carbonaceous ! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland / Correctionto directions...
Hello Marc, I don't think that your anticipation is correct. In fact Phil Bagnall from England, formerly, maybe still? on the list has a special page on his website about spiraling meteors. Personally during the surprise -pre 17 hours - of the Leonids in 1998, I saw one strong meteor, maybe -8 mag., that was split in two AND both of them giving of strong light and both most clearly corckscrewing just as the smoke was leaving the head and backwards! That was when my interest in spiraling meteors was born, by the way... :-) I posted this to this list and the meteor list, but nobody seems to have made a similar observation. Very few people saw that outburst I believe. But as Phil Bagnall writes on his page, observations of spiraling meteors pops up now and then. Of course such motion is hard to see in the more common, less bright meteors. Maybe the fast Leonids (71 km/s) are more prone to spiral, though I have seen a lot of Leonids, but just one (two :) ) that was indeed spiraling. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy Bjorn We do get to catch meteors in the act on a regular basis at night, and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever seen a nighttime meteor trace a corkscrewing path across the sky. Is this correct? Comments? Cheers, MDF By the way, a more updated thery of corckscrewing follows here: The supersonic speed of the meteor - several km/s upto ~72 km/s - will create a cavity - a near vacuum - in the wake of its flightpath, inside its shockfront. Very shortly (~momentarily), the air will rush in to fill the cavity from all sides, like what is happening in a tornado e.g., or in a kitchen sink as the water flows out. This will create a spiraling motion of the fluid, water or air in these example cases. (Is the turning direction determined by the particular location in one the two hemispheres of the Earth in the meteor case, by the way??) The smoke coming out of the melting meteor is subsequently seized by the spiraling motion of the inward rushing air, thus voila - a corckscrewing meteor is created. Is this accepted or not by current knowledge? Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Please, ignore my former e-mail, made some mistakes with directions...:-( These should be more correct. Hello, Bjorn and the list, the direction was (or at the moment we suppose, it was) about from west / north-west to east / east-south, against Vaasa, Finland. The angle seems to was quite low, about 30 degrees, and the crossing- point with the ground is somewhere between Vaasa and Valassaaret on the finnish coast. So it may be possible, something has reached the shore of Finland between Vaasa and Valassaaret. We don´t have a map yet, but you can at least locate Vaasa from; http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/lgcolor/ficolor.htm best, pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Hello, Actually my impression is that the corkscrewing is caused by the *very* high speed of a meteor, not the rotation of the meteorite, if there is rotation at all. Think about the corckscrewing you see at the wingtips of a jetplane - airliner. The higher the speed the more corckscrewing effects. Anyway, which direction did this object travel? If it was seen from both Sweden and Finland it might have reached the shore in either countries.. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s Ron Baalke wrote: http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/334473.htm Fins mistake meteor shower for SOS AFP July 13, 2004 A burst of meteors over Finnish coastal waters early Tuesday prompted hundreds of Finns to mistakenly report the natural phenomenon as emergency flares from distressed vessels, officials said. The shower might have lasted just a few seconds, but so far we got over 70 calls. The first hour was very busy here, said Matti Salokorpi, senior lieutenant with the maritime rescue center in Vaasa, some 420 kilometres northwest of Helsinki. On a normal night the rescue centre might get around 10 calls, he told AFP, adding that Vaasa's ambulance and fire services had received as many calls due to the natural phenomenon created when space debris hits the earth's atmosphere at high speed. Several other rescue centres along the Finnish west coast reported numerous similar calls, according to media here. One of the callers, cruising in his pleasure boat off the coast, described the phenomenon as a red fireball moving swiftly through the night sky, spewing sparks and leaving a trail of vapor before turning white as it entered the atmosphere, Finnish news agency FNB reported. A glowing meteor could easily be mistaken for an emergency flare, which is an international alarm signal for sailors in need of assistance, Salokorpi said. According to Finnish and international maritime regulations, any person who sees an emergency flare is bound by law to report it, he said. It is up to the rescue center to decide whether such an observation is a distress call or not, and not the observer. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s Ron Baalke wrote: http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/334473.htm Fins mistake meteor shower for SOS AFP July 13, 2004 A burst of meteors over Finnish coastal waters early Tuesday prompted hundreds of Finns to mistakenly report the natural phenomenon as emergency flares from distressed vessels, officials said. The shower might have lasted just a few seconds, but so far we got over 70 calls. The first hour was very busy here, said Matti Salokorpi, senior lieutenant with the maritime rescue center in Vaasa, some 420 kilometres northwest of Helsinki. On a normal night the rescue centre might get around 10 calls, he told AFP, adding that Vaasa's ambulance and fire services had received as many calls due to the natural phenomenon created when space debris hits the earth's atmosphere at high speed. Several other rescue centres along the Finnish west coast reported numerous similar calls, according to media here. One of the callers, cruising in his pleasure boat off the coast, described the phenomenon as a red fireball moving swiftly through the night sky, spewing sparks and leaving a trail of vapor before turning white as it entered the atmosphere, Finnish news agency FNB reported. A glowing meteor could easily be mistaken for an emergency flare, which is an international alarm signal for sailors in need of assistance, Salokorpi said. According to Finnish and international maritime regulations, any person who sees an emergency flare is bound by law to report it, he said. It is up to the rescue center to decide whether such an observation is a distress call or not, and not the observer. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s Ron Baalke wrote: http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/334473.htm Fins mistake meteor shower for SOS AFP July 13, 2004 A burst of meteors over Finnish coastal waters early Tuesday prompted hundreds of Finns to mistakenly report the natural phenomenon as emergency flares from distressed vessels, officials said. The shower might have lasted just a few seconds, but so far we got over 70 calls. The first hour was very busy here, said Matti Salokorpi, senior lieutenant with the maritime rescue center in Vaasa, some 420 kilometres northwest of Helsinki. On a normal night the rescue centre might get around 10 calls, he told AFP, adding that Vaasa's ambulance and fire services had received as many calls due to the natural phenomenon created when space debris hits the earth's atmosphere at high speed. Several other rescue centres along the Finnish west coast reported numerous similar calls, according to media here. One of the callers, cruising in his pleasure boat off the coast, described the phenomenon as a red fireball moving swiftly through the night sky, spewing sparks and leaving a trail of vapor before turning white as it entered the atmosphere, Finnish news agency FNB reported. A glowing meteor could easily be mistaken for an emergency flare, which is an international alarm signal for sailors in need of assistance, Salokorpi said. According to Finnish and international maritime regulations, any person who sees an emergency flare is bound by law to report it, he said. It is up to the rescue center to decide whether such an observation is a distress call or not, and not the observer. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
I really hope so too...;- Just got a note, we have now 2 pics with better quality and resolution on; http://www.ursa.fi/yhd/andromeda/meteori.html best, pekka s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc D. Fries writes: I m p r e s s i v e picture! When I saw that twisted trail, my first i m p r e s s i o n was: This looks a bit like the lingering dust trail of the Tagish Lake meteorite - in other words, maybe they find something friable, something carbonaceous ! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
Hello, Actually my impression is that the corkscrewing is caused by the *very* high speed of a meteor, not the rotation of the meteorite, if there is rotation at all. Think about the corckscrewing you see at the wingtips of a jetplane - airliner. The higher the speed the more corckscrewing effects. Anyway, which direction did this object travel? If it was seen from both Sweden and Finland it might have reached the shore in either countries.. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
Hello, Bjorn and the list, the direction was (or at the moment we suppose, it was) about from south / south-west to east / east-south, against Vaasa, Finland. The angle seems to was quite low, about 30 degrees, and the crossing- point with the ground is somewhere between Vaasa and Valassaaret on the finnish coast. So it may be possible, something has reached the shore of Finland between Vaasa and Valassaaret. We don´t have a map yet, but you can at least locate Vaasa from; http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/lgcolor/ficolor.htm best, pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Hello, Actually my impression is that the corkscrewing is caused by the *very* high speed of a meteor, not the rotation of the meteorite, if there is rotation at all. Think about the corckscrewing you see at the wingtips of a jetplane - airliner. The higher the speed the more corckscrewing effects. Anyway, which direction did this object travel? If it was seen from both Sweden and Finland it might have reached the shore in either countries.. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland / Correction to directions...
Please, ignore my former e-mail, made some mistakes with directions...:-( These should be more correct. Hello, Bjorn and the list, the direction was (or at the moment we suppose, it was) about from west / north-west to east / east-south, against Vaasa, Finland. The angle seems to was quite low, about 30 degrees, and the crossing- point with the ground is somewhere between Vaasa and Valassaaret on the finnish coast. So it may be possible, something has reached the shore of Finland between Vaasa and Valassaaret. We don´t have a map yet, but you can at least locate Vaasa from; http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/lgcolor/ficolor.htm best, pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Hello, Actually my impression is that the corkscrewing is caused by the *very* high speed of a meteor, not the rotation of the meteorite, if there is rotation at all. Think about the corckscrewing you see at the wingtips of a jetplane - airliner. The higher the speed the more corckscrewing effects. Anyway, which direction did this object travel? If it was seen from both Sweden and Finland it might have reached the shore in either countries.. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland / Correction to directions...
Hello Pekka, Thanks for the info. I found a nice link to Valassaaret here: http://www8.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=63.4333long=21.0667name=Valassaaretcty=Finlandalt=3 (Paste the two parts into one with no space between) Umeå in Sweden is the big yellow spot on the left side, while Vaasa is the biggest yellow spot on the right shore, by the small bay. By the way, a more updated thery of corckscrewing follows here: The supersonic speed of the meteor - several km/s upto ~72 km/s - will create a cavity - a near vacuum - in the wake of its flightpath, inside its shockfront. Very shortly (~momentarily), the air will rush in to fill the cavity from all sides, like what is happening in a tornado e.g., or in a kitchen sink as the water flows out. This will create a spiraling motion of the fluid, water or air in these example cases. (Is the turning direction determined by the particular location in one the two hemispheres of the Earth in the meteor case, by the way??) The smoke coming out of the melting meteor is subsequently seized by the spiraling motion of the inward rushing air, thus voila - a corckscrewing meteor is created. Is this accepted or not by current knowledge? Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Please, ignore my former e-mail, made some mistakes with directions...:-( These should be more correct. Hello, Bjorn and the list, the direction was (or at the moment we suppose, it was) about from west / north-west to east / east-south, against Vaasa, Finland. The angle seems to was quite low, about 30 degrees, and the crossing- point with the ground is somewhere between Vaasa and Valassaaret on the finnish coast. So it may be possible, something has reached the shore of Finland between Vaasa and Valassaaret. We don´t have a map yet, but you can at least locate Vaasa from; http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/lgcolor/ficolor.htm best, pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Hello, Actually my impression is that the corkscrewing is caused by the *very* high speed of a meteor, not the rotation of the meteorite, if there is rotation at all. Think about the corckscrewing you see at the wingtips of a jetplane - airliner. The higher the speed the more corckscrewing effects. Anyway, which direction did this object travel? If it was seen from both Sweden and Finland it might have reached the shore in either countries.. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland
Those contrails are most peculiar! If anyone has ever skipped flat rocks on a lake, you know that sometimes on the last bounce, they go in at an angle. The flat rocks (or at least flat on a side) then fall through the water in a spiraling shimmy much like the trails these meteors left, wobbling from side to side. If the meteors are rather flat, that might also account for the airburst, as the stresses became too great on the large surface and forced the meteor to break up. Tracy Latimer From: Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:13:41 +0300 I really hope so too...;- Just got a note, we have now 2 pics with better quality and resolution on; http://www.ursa.fi/yhd/andromeda/meteori.html best, pekka s [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc D. Fries writes: I m p r e s s i v e picture! When I saw that twisted trail, my first i m p r e s s i o n was: This looks a bit like the lingering dust trail of the Tagish Lake meteorite - in other words, maybe they find something friable, something carbonaceous ! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Burst of Meteors Seen Near Finland / Correctionto directions...
Howdy Bjorn I can buy that explanation. I've been thinking about this, and it seems that the only way to be sure of whether its the meteor or its trail thats doing the spiraling is to catch it in action. We do get to catch meteors in the act on a regular basis at night, and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever seen a nighttime meteor trace a corkscrewing path across the sky. Is this correct? Comments? Cheers, MDF By the way, a more updated thery of corckscrewing follows here: The supersonic speed of the meteor - several km/s upto ~72 km/s - will create a cavity - a near vacuum - in the wake of its flightpath, inside its shockfront. Very shortly (~momentarily), the air will rush in to fill the cavity from all sides, like what is happening in a tornado e.g., or in a kitchen sink as the water flows out. This will create a spiraling motion of the fluid, water or air in these example cases. (Is the turning direction determined by the particular location in one the two hemispheres of the Earth in the meteor case, by the way??) The smoke coming out of the melting meteor is subsequently seized by the spiraling motion of the inward rushing air, thus voila - a corckscrewing meteor is created. Is this accepted or not by current knowledge? Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Please, ignore my former e-mail, made some mistakes with directions...:-( These should be more correct. Hello, Bjorn and the list, the direction was (or at the moment we suppose, it was) about from west / north-west to east / east-south, against Vaasa, Finland. The angle seems to was quite low, about 30 degrees, and the crossing- point with the ground is somewhere between Vaasa and Valassaaret on the finnish coast. So it may be possible, something has reached the shore of Finland between Vaasa and Valassaaret. We don´t have a map yet, but you can at least locate Vaasa from; http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/lgcolor/ficolor.htm best, pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Hello, Actually my impression is that the corkscrewing is caused by the *very* high speed of a meteor, not the rotation of the meteorite, if there is rotation at all. Think about the corckscrewing you see at the wingtips of a jetplane - airliner. The higher the speed the more corckscrewing effects. Anyway, which direction did this object travel? If it was seen from both Sweden and Finland it might have reached the shore in either countries.. Bjørn Sørheim = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Howdy, list Impressive picture! The trail is twisted in a repeating fashion that can't just be due to winds - I'd say the meteor corkscrewed its way through the atmosphere. I'm curious - the maximum survivable entry velocity for meteorites was calculated a while back (forgive the lack of reference here). Would a twisting, spiraling entry have an impact on the survivability of meteorites? I'm inclined to believe that if the total air resistance vector was divided into an opposing vector and a sideways vector... would that mean the meteorite could be smaller and survive, or would it have to be larger?? On one hand, the vector magnitude parallel/opposite to the flight path would be smaller, but on the other hand you'd have a sideways vector that would put a shear force on the meteorite. The shear strength of materials tends to be a fraction of that of the bulk material strength, so would the meteorite be MORE likely to break up in a corkscrewing flight path? Thoughts? Comments? Does anyone know if anyone has calculated this sort of thing before? Cheers, MDF You can find the pic from; http://www.vasabladet.fi/nyheter.asp?katID=1 text only in swedish...;- best, pekka s -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory
