Re: [meteorite-list] No nickel-free iron meteorites
Thanks Paul, Man those are some technical files. Beyond the understanding of mere mortals such as myself. I would recommend a book by James Kaler, Stars, in which nucleosynthsis is touched upon, along with stellar evolution in general. A readable book for the non-technical person (me). Kaler has written a number of good books on well, stars. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: "Paul H." To: Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] No nickel-free iron meteorites Walter wrote: “Hi Rob, .nucleosynthesis... Ah, one of my favorite words. I try to use it at least once a week :-) -Walter (give-me-some-hydrogen-atoms-and-I-can-create-any-heavier- element-up-to-iron) Branch” In that case, some interesting PDF files about nucleosynthesis are: Origin of the Elements 1. Nuclear Science—A Guide to the Nuclear Science Wall Chart, Contemporary Physics Education Project (CPEP) http://www.lbl.gov/abc/wallchart/teachersguide/pdf/Chap10.pdf 2. Origin of the Elements, Physics and Chemistry of the Earth and Terrestrial Planets, MIT OpenCourseWare, 2008 http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Earth--Atmospheric--and-Planetary-Sciences/12-002Fall-2008/7B3B76D2-4AE3-40B8-BE1E-E4C0EFD88EA3/0/MIT12_002f08_lec3_4.pdf or http://tiny.cc/ironfree1 3. I. The Origin of the Elements, Galaxies, Solar System, and Earth Past and Present Climate, MIT OpenCourseWare, 2008 http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Earth--Atmospheric--and-Planetary-Sciences/12-842Fall-2008/F4A17D2E-C8DA-4AE5-8EE0-1186B5063DF1/0/part1_lec1.pdf or http://tiny.cc/ironfree2 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] No nickel-free iron meteorites
Paul, Great links here. Do they come in an English version??? Quark and anti-quark. Haha. Thanks. Very interesting. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax "Paul H." wrote: > Walter wrote: “Hi Rob, .nucleosynthesis... Ah, one of my favorite words. I try to use it at least once a week :-) -Walter (give-me-some-hydrogen-atoms-and-I-can-create-any-heavier- element-up-to-iron) Branch” In that case, some interesting PDF files about nucleosynthesis are: Origin of the Elements 1. Nuclear Science—A Guide to the Nuclear Science Wall Chart, Contemporary Physics Education Project (CPEP) http://www.lbl.gov/abc/wallchart/teachersguide/pdf/Chap10.pdf 2. Origin of the Elements, Physics and Chemistry of the Earth and Terrestrial Planets, MIT OpenCourseWare, 2008 http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Earth--Atmospheric--and-Planetary-Sciences/12-002Fall-2008/7B3B76D2-4AE3-40B8-BE1E-E4C0EFD88EA3/0/MIT12_002f08_lec3_4.pdf or http://tiny.cc/ironfree1 3. I. The Origin of the Elements, Galaxies, Solar System, and Earth Past and Present Climate, MIT OpenCourseWare, 2008 http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Earth--Atmospheric--and-Planetary-Sciences/12-842Fall-2008/F4A17D2E-C8DA-4AE5-8EE0-1186B5063DF1/0/part1_lec1.pdf or http://tiny.cc/ironfree2 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] No nickel-free iron meteorites
Hi Rob, ...nucleosynthesis... Ah, one of my favorite words. I try to use it at least once a week :-) -Walter (give-me-some-hydrogen-atoms-and-I-can-create-any-heavier-element-up-to-iron) Branch - Original Message - From: "Matson, Robert D." To: "meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] No nickel-free iron meteorites Hi Carl, Alan wrote: "Please note that volumetrically, the amount of low-Ni metallic Fe is trivial, far less than 0.1% of a typical chondrite." You replied: ".1% is a relative term. Earth may be only a fraction of the size of Artares [Antares] but, it is still a pretty big rock." I don't think you're quite absorbing what Dr. Rubin is saying. There is no natural solar system mechanism that can separate iron from nickel in macroscopic quantities. So if you find a lump of iron on earth that doesn't have nickel in it, it originated here. It is not a question of there being room for reasonable doubt. It simply cannot happen. The physics of nucleosynthesis, cosmochemistry, and entropy do not allow it. Best, Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] No nickel-free iron meteorites
Rob, Sorry, What I was trying to say is that .1% of something is more that 0%. 0% would be zero. .1% would be something. So, to an atom size person the size of these nickel free iron inclusions found in Chondrules would seem rather large. Remember, They do exist they are just small in chondrules. Image if you were the size of an atom and came up against a piece of iron that had been somehow removed from it's host rock (perhaps it crashed onto a hard surface here on Earth) . It would appear to be very large relatively speaking. remember, you are the size of an Atom. That is what the Earth comparison was about. No one is saying nickel-free iron does not exist so, I am saying that it could be bigger than that found in a small chondrule. Nobody knows how big they are. Until the day comes that we find a big one. that is all I meant. They exist on a small scale so it stands to reason that they would exist on a smaller and a larger scale as well. I don't think we know everything about the size of everything yet. Which leaves room for reasonable doubt. Name one real thing that only comes in one size? That is how I would argue it if I were a juror based on the information at hand. Assuming no DNA evidence exists to the contrary. I hope that makes more sense. I understand there is no NATURAL way of separating these nickel free iron inclusions from their host rock but, meteorites do it all the time by collisions with other meteorites. So far we have only seen relatively small ones in part because we don't always look. Once they fail the quick nickel test they are dead to the world. True story. If you tell an investigator you did a nickel test and it was negative you can talk until blue in the face. Nobody is still listening. that was my original point. We might be missing real meteorites. Maybe Dr. Rubin would not but, screening by others happens way before he ever sees them. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax "Matson wrote: > Hi Carl, > > Alan wrote: > > > "Please note that volumetrically, the amount of low-Ni metallic Fe is > > trivial, far less than 0.1% of a typical chondrite." > > You replied: > > > ".1% is a relative term. Earth may be only a fraction of the size of > > Artares [Antares] but, it is still a pretty big rock." > > I don't think you're quite absorbing what Dr. Rubin is saying. There is > no > natural solar system mechanism that can separate iron from nickel in > macroscopic quantities. So if you find a lump of iron on earth that > doesn't > have nickel in it, it originated here. It is not a question of there > being > room for reasonable doubt. It simply cannot happen. The physics of > nucleosynthesis, cosmochemistry, and entropy do not allow it. > > Best, > Rob > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
