Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-26 Thread Brian Cox
Golly, Gee Whiz that rusty rock on ebay sold for $500.. 
Jeepers..


Gary, Richard, et al, all you folks asked excellent questions and did give 
him a fair chance and were helpful.


The mysterious crater looks like a pile of brush and tree limbs.look at 
the dozens of pine cones all around it and across the top.


Granny, Jethro, Ellie May, Duke, load up the truck, we're a movin' to the 
hills of Northern Nevada to look for dem dar meteorites.


I feel kind of sorry for flying monkeys, he's either really stumped or 
really puttin' on a good act, since his spellin' is about as good as mine.


Do I dare look at his feedback in about 10 days to see if we know the 
mystery winner who paid $500??


I hope it's real, but it does look like  iron ore hematite.   It's very 
similar to what   Moqui Balls  or Shaman stones as they are also called, 
that are found in the weathered areas of Utah around Escalante National 
Monument and in that area of Southern Utah and Northern Arizona.


I wish all of you to find a new meteorite and have much happiness, peace, 
fame and fortune.


All the best,

Brian Cox 


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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-26 Thread Jason Utas
Hello All,
The crater is typical in appearance of many mining prospects in gold
rush country, and the stone itself appears to be hematite - there
looks to be a nice seam of quartz running through it in some of the
photos.  If it is, it would actually make sense - the prospector who
dug the hole might have thought that there could be other
metal-bearing ores nearby.
Sometimes you can find great stuff on ebay...sometimes not.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Murray Paulson
murray.paul...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi:

 Did any of you notice that the crater looks kind of fresh, but the
 meteorite looks far from fresh, more likely hundreds of years old?
 This one smells! P.T. Barnum said something about the likes of the
 bidders!

 Murray Paulson

 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:46 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum
 joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 Possibilities, but probably not.  The crater looks like what's left after a
 tree falls over and is removed.  This find (or not) is courtesy of the
 Meteorite Men.  Whaddya think?:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851


 What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that looks just like
 a Newfoundland dog?  I also liked the Vincent rock:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246




 Phil Whitmer
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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-26 Thread Brian Cox

Gosh darn,

Just to point something out with my detective skills ;-)  ...flying 
monkeys feedback and feedback he has given show that he buys...   Tactical 
Boots, since 10.5, desert boots size 10,,, knives and biker patches 
You can put the pieces together with what he has said on the auction and to 
the private emails he has sent.


As I mentioned earlier it looks like iron ore hematite and Jason Utas 
mentioned he thought it was hematite too. Flying is in the Reno area so it 
would be nice if it were a meteorite, but I guess until someone gets their 
hands on a sample we can be safe in saying that it probably isn't, but that 
isn't my call.



On the bids, you can see that a person with 15 feedbacks bid about every 
other second or so near the end and won it at $500.


It only shows the amount of the highest bid though to us outsiders of the 
auction. When you see bids like that it meant he was bidding it above $500, 
for example $510, then 2 seconds later $520, $550, $600 etc. You can't see 
how high he went up to since only the highest winning bid amount shows, but 
whomever he/she was they really wanted it since you are not able to bid 12 
additional bids at the same amount so that is why he bid it up in higher 
increments of probably $5-10 dollars when it gets above $500.


Anyhow it's too late or too early.

I wish you all well.

Take care,

Brian 


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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-26 Thread Ken Newton
Hi Paul and all,
Oddly enough I do keep copies of many of the U.S. wrong auctions going
back about
7 or 8 years. Notable sellers of current suspect meteorites are listed here:
http://meteorite-identification.com/updates.html

Although many claim to have found their wrong in a 'crater', this is
the largest and best photo of an eBay craterwrong.

BTW, I would like to talk to the buyer If anyone knows who won this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=310205380871

Best wishes,
ken

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote:
 In http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-March/062531.html ,
 Murray Paulson wrote:

 “Did any of you notice that the crater looks kind of fresh, but the
 meteorite looks far from fresh, more likely hundreds of years old?”

 The picture is at:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSizeitem=180483766353

 The “rim” of this hole is too high and complete to be a tree throw.
 Given that this hole is found in Nevada, I would hypothesize that it
 is a historic or modern prospect pit dug by someone looking for
 minable mineral deposits. These pits can be found all over Nevada,
 California, the western United States.

 The rock looks like a chunk of hematite that has replaced some
 sort of deeply weathered rock.

 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSizeitem=180483766353

 Someone should archive this bEay page and figures and add them
 their collection of meteorwrongs and craterwrongs. The eBay page is:

 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851

 Yours,

 Paul
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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread cdtucson
Phil, 
Some poor sod has it bid up to $325. Ouch! Looking at the size of the other 
trees, If this is from a fallen tree it would be huge. Could there have been a 
tree that much larger than the others there? Maybe But, 
The guy refused to file an end to show the interior. This in spite of the fact 
that I assured him he would get a lot more money if he showed us the interior. 
I am certain by now he knows it is not a meteorite. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


 JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: 
 Possibilities, but probably not.  The crater looks like what's left after a 
 tree falls over and is removed.  This find (or not) is courtesy of the 
 Meteorite Men.  Whaddya think?: 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851
 
 
 What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that looks just like 
 a Newfoundland dog?  I also liked the Vincent rock: 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246
 
 
 
 
 Phil Whitmer 
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Richard Kowalski
Hey Phil.

I posted this same link to the list 5 days ago and got no reaction on list and 
only one private message about it.

I find it interesting that almost every bid is by two people and both of them 
have very low bidding histories.

Curiouser and curiouser...


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 3/25/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 9:46 AM
 Possibilities, but probably
 not.  The crater looks like what's left after a tree
 falls over and is removed.  This find (or not) is
 courtesy of the Meteorite Men.  Whaddya think?: 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851
 
 
 What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that
 looks just like a Newfoundland dog?  I also liked the
 Vincent rock: 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246
 
 
 
 
 Phil Whitmer 
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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Gary Fujihara
RIchard, Phil, listees,

I did inquire to the seller about the stone and the alleged crater from which 
it was recovered, and here is his reply, Hey this is way out in left field but 
if you get your college to fly me there Id be willing to bring samples and give 
your University first chance at this discovery.

gary

On Mar 25, 2010, at 7:45 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote:

 Hey Phil.
 
 I posted this same link to the list 5 days ago and got no reaction on list 
 and only one private message about it.
 
 I find it interesting that almost every bid is by two people and both of them 
 have very low bidding histories.
 
 Curiouser and curiouser...
 
 
 --
 Richard Kowalski
 Full Moon Photography
 IMCA #1081
 
 
 --- On Thu, 3/25/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 
 From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 9:46 AM
 Possibilities, but probably
 not.  The crater looks like what's left after a tree
 falls over and is removed.  This find (or not) is
 courtesy of the Meteorite Men.  Whaddya think?: 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851
 
 
 What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that
 looks just like a Newfoundland dog?  I also liked the
 Vincent rock: 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246
 
 
 
 
 Phil Whitmer 
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Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161

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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread GeoZay
Possibilities, but probably not.   The crater looks like what's left 
after a 
tree falls over and is  removed.  This find (or not) is courtesy of the 
Meteorite Men.   Whaddya think?: 

The berm seems to be too high for an impact. I'd  expect the material to 
have been thrown further from the pit and not built up  that much immediately 
around the hole. The carancas crater didn't have as high  of a berm 
surrounding the hole that I recall? The berm also reminds me of holes  I've 
made 
while working a dry wash machine looking for gold in Big Bear, CA.  
GeoZay  

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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Linton Rohr

Yeah, I just saw that Carl.
Looks like two buyers bidding it up feverishly.
I'm afraid I'll have to pass. ;^)
Linton

- Original Message - 
From: cdtuc...@cox.net
To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteoritelist 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater



Phil,
Some poor sod has it bid up to $325. Ouch! Looking at the size of the 
other trees, If this is from a fallen tree it would be huge. Could there 
have been a tree that much larger than the others there? Maybe But,
The guy refused to file an end to show the interior. This in spite of the 
fact that I assured him he would get a lot more money if he showed us the 
interior. I am certain by now he knows it is not a meteorite. Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


 JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote:
Possibilities, but probably not.  The crater looks like what's left after 
a

tree falls over and is removed.  This find (or not) is courtesy of the
Meteorite Men.  Whaddya think?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851


What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that looks just 
like

a Newfoundland dog?  I also liked the Vincent rock:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246




Phil Whitmer

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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Murray Paulson
Hi:

Did any of you notice that the crater looks kind of fresh, but the
meteorite looks far from fresh, more likely hundreds of years old?
This one smells! P.T. Barnum said something about the likes of the
bidders!

Murray Paulson

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:46 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum
joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 Possibilities, but probably not.  The crater looks like what's left after a
 tree falls over and is removed.  This find (or not) is courtesy of the
 Meteorite Men.  Whaddya think?:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851


 What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that looks just like
 a Newfoundland dog?  I also liked the Vincent rock:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246




 Phil Whitmer
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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Greg Stanley

List:

All I can say is ... WOW!

he says I will say I am an ametuer and do not claim to know of these things

and he get 35 bids

Man... I have to start selling on ebay.

Greg S.


 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0700
 From: photoph...@yahoo.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

 Hello Listers,

 I had contacted the ebayer and asked.

 Dear flying---monkey,

 Hi you had said a college had contacted you, did they contact you from seeing 
 the meteorite on eBay or through emails that you had sent out to them? Also, 
 which colleges did you send out samples to and have they gotten back to about 
 if the rock you have is a meteorite or a meteorite wrong?

 And the eBayer replied...

 Dear photophlow,

 All I can tell you is I'm processing.


 - flying---monkey


 Processing? Does anyone know that processing means? One its a meteorite and 
 hes not that great with emailing and 6 months we will see this on Meteorite 
 Men II, or two, its a meteorite wrong and hes still not good with emails. At 
 any rate I would to see how high this bid goes.

 Shawn Alan

 [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 Murray Paulson murray.paulson at gmail.com
 Thu Mar 25 14:54:01 EDT 2010

 Previous message: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 Next message: [meteorite-list] AD eBay Meteorites Ending Soon
 Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

 
 Hi:

 Did any of you notice that the crater looks kind of fresh, but the
 meteorite looks far from fresh, more likely hundreds of years old?
 This one smells! P.T. Barnum said something about the likes of the
 bidders!

 Murray Paulson

 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:46 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum
  wrote:

 Possibilities, but probably not. The crater looks like what's left after a

 tree falls over and is removed. This find (or not) is courtesy of the

 Meteorite Men. Whaddya think?:

 http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851





 What are the chances of finding a rock in Newfoundland that looks just like

 a Newfoundland dog? I also liked the Vincent rock:

 http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246









 Phil Whitmer

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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Richard Kowalski
That's kinda why I pointed out the two bidders have low feedback numbers.
I wonder if he's bidding against himself under two accounts to run up the price 
and add legitimacy

This lot screams fraud, IMHO.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 3/25/10, Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com wrote:

 From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 To: photoph...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 2:41 PM
 
 List:
 
 All I can say is ... WOW!
 
 he says I will say I am an ametuer and do not claim to
 know of these things
 
 and he get 35 bids
 
 Man... I have to start selling on ebay.
 
 Greg S.
 
 
  Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0700
  From: photoph...@yahoo.com
  To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 
  Hello Listers,
 
  I had contacted the ebayer and asked.
 
  Dear flying---monkey,
 
  Hi you had said a college had contacted you, did they
 contact you from seeing the meteorite on eBay or through
 emails that you had sent out to them? Also, which colleges
 did you send out samples to and have they gotten back to
 about if the rock you have is a meteorite or a meteorite
 wrong?
 
  And the eBayer replied...
 
  Dear photophlow,
 
  All I can tell you is I'm processing.
 
 
  - flying---monkey
 
 
  Processing? Does anyone know that processing means?
 One its a meteorite and hes not that great with emailing and
 6 months we will see this on Meteorite Men II, or two, its a
 meteorite wrong and hes still not good with emails. At any
 rate I would to see how high this bid goes.
 
  Shawn Alan
 
  [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
  Murray Paulson murray.paulson at gmail.com
  Thu Mar 25 14:54:01 EDT 2010
 
  Previous message: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and
 crater
  Next message: [meteorite-list] AD eBay Meteorites
 Ending Soon
  Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
 author ]
 
 
 
  Hi:
 
  Did any of you notice that the crater looks kind of
 fresh, but the
  meteorite looks far from fresh, more likely hundreds
 of years old?
  This one smells! P.T. Barnum said something about the
 likes of the
  bidders!
 
  Murray Paulson
 
  On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:46 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum
   wrote:
 
  Possibilities, but probably not. The crater looks
 like what's left after a
 
  tree falls over and is removed. This find (or not)
 is courtesy of the
 
  Meteorite Men. Whaddya think?:
 
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851
 
 
 
 
 
  What are the chances of finding a rock in
 Newfoundland that looks just like
 
  a Newfoundland dog? I also liked the Vincent
 rock:
 
  http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Phil Whitmer
 
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  http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
 
  Meteorite-list mailing list
 
  Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
 
  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Previous message: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and
 crater
  Next message: [meteorite-list] AD eBay Meteorites
 Ending Soon
  Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
 author ]
 
 
 
  More information about the Meteorite-list mailing
 list
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

2010-03-25 Thread Linton Rohr

Definitely, Richard.
It finished at $500, with 53 bids.
The winner put in 15 additional  maximum bids higher than $500.
Smells fishy.
Linton

- Original Message - 
From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com
To: photoph...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Greg 
Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater


That's kinda why I pointed out the two bidders have low feedback numbers.
I wonder if he's bidding against himself under two accounts to run up the 
price and add legitimacy


This lot screams fraud, IMHO.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 3/25/10, Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com wrote:


From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
To: photoph...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 2:41 PM

List:

All I can say is ... WOW!

he says I will say I am an ametuer and do not claim to
know of these things

and he get 35 bids

Man... I have to start selling on ebay.

Greg S.


 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0700
 From: photoph...@yahoo.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater

 Hello Listers,

 I had contacted the ebayer and asked.

 Dear flying---monkey,

 Hi you had said a college had contacted you, did they
contact you from seeing the meteorite on eBay or through
emails that you had sent out to them? Also, which colleges
did you send out samples to and have they gotten back to
about if the rock you have is a meteorite or a meteorite
wrong?

 And the eBayer replied...

 Dear photophlow,

 All I can tell you is I'm processing.


 - flying---monkey


 Processing? Does anyone know that processing means?
One its a meteorite and hes not that great with emailing and
6 months we will see this on Meteorite Men II, or two, its a
meteorite wrong and hes still not good with emails. At any
rate I would to see how high this bid goes.

 Shawn Alan

 [meteorite-list] eBay meteorite and crater
 Murray Paulson murray.paulson at gmail.com
 Thu Mar 25 14:54:01 EDT 2010

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 Hi:

 Did any of you notice that the crater looks kind of
fresh, but the
 meteorite looks far from fresh, more likely hundreds
of years old?
 This one smells! P.T. Barnum said something about the
likes of the
 bidders!

 Murray Paulson

 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:46 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum
 wrote:

 Possibilities, but probably not. The crater looks
like what's left after a

 tree falls over and is removed. This find (or not)
is courtesy of the

 Meteorite Men. Whaddya think?:

 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Meteorite-Rare-Find_W0QQitemZ180483766353QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a05abb851





 What are the chances of finding a rock in
Newfoundland that looks just like

 a Newfoundland dog? I also liked the Vincent
rock:

 
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-UNIQUE-ROCK-FORMATIONS-NFLD-DOG-SKULL-METEORITE_W0QQitemZ270551650886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item3efe229246









 Phil Whitmer

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