[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

changes I'm making to settings.py:

TIME_ZONE = 'America/Winnipeg'
"ENGINE": "django.db.backends.sqlite3",  (this should be a better db, but 
one thing at a time...)

Uncommenting lines 319-333, which consist of the following (different from 
your tutorial):

319 FABRIC = {
320 "SSH_USER": "", # SSH username for host deploying to
321 "HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first 
host)
322 "DOMAINS": ALLOWED_HOSTS, # Domains for public site
323 "REPO_URL": "ssh://h...@bitbucket.org/user/project", # Project's repo 
URL
324 "VIRTUALENV_HOME":  "", # Absolute remote path for virtualenvs
325 "PROJECT_NAME": "", # Unique identifier for project
326 "REQUIREMENTS_PATH": "requirements.txt", # Project's pip 
requirements
327 "GUNICORN_PORT": 8000, # Port gunicorn will listen on
328 "LOCALE": "en_US.UTF-8", # Should end with ".UTF-8"
329 "DB_PASS": "", # Live database password
330 "ADMIN_PASS": "", # Live admin user password
331 "SECRET_KEY": SECRET_KEY,
332 "NEVERCACHE_KEY": NEVERCACHE_KEY,
333 }

I am not modifying these yet, but when I do fab all later, it will say that 
the keys have not been defined.

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Here are my changes so far to local_settings.py. The keys are defined right 
above this in this file, but the other file still needs the keys.

FABRIC = {
 26 "SSH_USER": "vagrant", # SSH username for host deploying to
 27 "HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first 
host)
 28 "DOMAINS": ALLOWED_HOSTS, # Domains for public site
 29 "REPO_URL": "https://github.com/jimmyyeo/tenprint";, # Project's 
repo URL
 30 "VIRTUALENV_HOME":  "", # Absolute remote path for virtualenvs
 31 "PROJECT_NAME": "", # Unique identifier for project
 32 "REQUIREMENTS_PATH": "requirements.txt", # Project's pip 
requirements
 33 "GUNICORN_PORT": 8000, # Port gunicorn will listen on
 34 "LOCALE": "en_US.UTF-8", # Should end with ".UTF-8"
 35 "DB_PASS": "", # Live database password
 36 "ADMIN_PASS": "", # Live admin user password
 37 "SECRET_KEY": SECRET_KEY,
 38 "NEVERCACHE_KEY": NEVERCACHE_KEY,
 39 }

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Ok, first official snag. The response to fab all is:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File 
"/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
line 658, in main
docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
  File 
"/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
line 165, in load_fabfile
imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
  File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
  File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 331, in 
"SECRET_KEY": SECRET_KEY,
NameError: name 'SECRET_KEY' is not defined

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

(I actually asked about this in the other thread as well)

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:10:02 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>
>
> Ok, first official snag. The response to fab all is:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File 
> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
> line 658, in main
> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>   File 
> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
> line 165, in load_fabfile
> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
> conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 331, in 
> "SECRET_KEY": SECRET_KEY,
> NameError: name 'SECRET_KEY' is not defined
>
>

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Keys defined in settings.py. new error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File 
"/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
line 658, in main
docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
  File 
"/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
line 165, in load_fabfile
imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
  File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
  File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 347, in 
from local_settings import *
  File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/local_settings.py", line 27, in 

"HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first 
host)
NameError: name 'ALLOWED_HOSTS' is not defined

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Just realized I needed to define it in local_settings.py. I added

ALLOWED_HOSTS = []

?

/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/mezzanine/utils/conf.py:52:
 
UserWarning: You haven't defined the ALLOWED_HOSTS settings, which Django 
1.5 requires. Will fall back to the domains configured as sites.
  warn("You haven't defined the ALLOWED_HOSTS settings, which "
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File 
"/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
line 658, in main
docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
  File 
"/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
line 165, in load_fabfile
imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
  File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 28, in 
conf["HOSTS"][0]
IndexError: list index out of range

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

I added my actual hostname to the ALLOWED_HOSTS, now it's trying to fab 
all, but asking for a login password for 'vagrant' - I added the SSH_PASS 
to the FABRIC dictionary, but it's still asking for the pass.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:36:44 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>
> Just realized I needed to define it in local_settings.py. I added
>
> ALLOWED_HOSTS = []
>
> ?
>
> /home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/mezzanine/utils/conf.py:52:
>  
> UserWarning: You haven't defined the ALLOWED_HOSTS settings, which Django 
> 1.5 requires. Will fall back to the domains configured as sites.
>   warn("You haven't defined the ALLOWED_HOSTS settings, which "
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File 
> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
> line 658, in main
> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>   File 
> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
> line 165, in load_fabfile
> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 28, in 
> conf["HOSTS"][0]
> IndexError: list index out of range
>
>

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

(To clarify, when I said "this community," I meant the FOSS community, not 
the Mezzanine community.)

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm pretty good at expressing myself with 
words (no braggin', as Will Sonnett used to say at 3am, just facts), but 
sometimes that expressive ability makes me come off like an arsehole. Most 
cause I'm kind of an arsehole. But my intentions are very good, for 
whatever that's worth. I read the fab docs yesterday. Anyways, I see the 
value of all these things. Just continuing to hold my face squarely in 
front of this here firehose. 

The way I'm looking at the best practices thing is that there are best 
practices for working professionals, and there are best practices for 
students. I know that there are many more days ahead of me, reading docs, 
but at this point I'm flailing just to find the right docs to read (if you 
have any "everyone should read this" links or books, or hell, if someone's 
laid out a curriculum that you think I should follow, I'm all ears...). 
This whole experience has been very instructive, needless to say, and 
that's all I'm after for the moment - grand failures that reveal inner 
workings. In order to fail in a properly grand fashion, I need to have the 
ability to throw a wrench into the gears of the factory, which fortunately 
for us, is perfectly fine to do in circumstances where the entire factory 
can be restored by a keystroke. But the entire system is, of course, 
designed to stop people from doing such foolish things in daily life. Every 
tutorial contains at least a nod, and usually a speech that borders on 
sanctimony, about best security practices. Not that this is not valuable 
knowledge, of course, but security is not your priority if you're trying to 
learn how to code a given functionality.

Anyways, my site is currently laid out with "pure" css, right now I'm 
occupying myself by trying to recreate the same layout leaving bootstrap 
intact. Being that I've done a couple of respectable responsive designs on 
my own, I'm not a big fan of Bootstrap's complexity, but then, I want a 
job. Also, I'm told it's very good at automating form validation, which I'm 
all for avoiding if I can...:>

Anyways, again, I appreciate your help AND doubly appreciate your 
encouragement. Schools and teachers have never worked for me, so learning 
things is always a struggle, and finding people with the right sort of 
patience is a struggle of its own. 

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

(To clarify, though, I'm not proposing to make direct modifications to 
Mezzanine as a working thing. I just want to open it up and see what it 
looks like in there, maybe poke at its brain and make it smell burnt toast, 
you know?)

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[mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Speaking of jquery, do you have an opinion on the best way to customize 
design and presentation? this time around, I created an app and copied the 
base and index html files and bootstrap-theme.css, to which I'm adding 
custom styles at the bottom. I see a lot of talk about Bootswatch and about 
compiling your own Bootstrap, but I'm reluctant to start downloading and 
making my own, cause I'm sure there's a lot of integration behind the 
scenes with Mezz. Whatever the case, I'm trying to work with Bootstrap 
cause I know I pretty much have to if I expect to work, and there's all 
kinds of advice - that other fellow from the Mezz main page, I loved his 
Getting Started tutorial, we have similar philosophical views, for 
instance, but he actually recommends several approaches, and doesn't really 
offer a "this is the best" answer. What I'm doing works well enough, but it 
could actually be awful in ways I cannot perceive. Messing with Bootstrap 
at all is a nightmare, given the responsive aspects. Much easier to just 
write my own, from a strict design point of view...

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 7:14:20 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>
> I've spent the last week attempting a manual deployment on an Ubuntu 
> server, and at this point, I'm seriously considering going back to 
> Wordpress. 
>
> Is it feasible to create a One-click Django server, ssh into the server, 
> install Mezzanine in the backend, and then add the various Mezzanine apps 
> to the already-working settings.py, and then modify the site from there?
>
> I've had my site finished and ready to go in the dev server for a week 
> now. Deployment should be easier than this.
>

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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[Ken Bolton]

You need a SECRET_KEY and NEVERCACHE_KEY defined in your settings. There
are SECRET_KEY generators out there. Search the Django docs to come to
grips with these two settings.

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:

> (I actually asked about this in the other thread as well)
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:10:02 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ok, first official snag. The response to fab all is:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File 
>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py",
>> line 658, in main
>> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>>   File 
>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py",
>> line 165, in load_fabfile
>> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
>> conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 331, in 
>> "SECRET_KEY": SECRET_KEY,
>> NameError: name 'SECRET_KEY' is not defined
>>
>>  --
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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Ok, and I should add lines defining these to settings.py? Note that 
local_settings.py already has them defined.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:28:04 AM UTC-6, Kenneth Bolton wrote:
>
> You need a SECRET_KEY and NEVERCACHE_KEY defined in your settings. There 
> are SECRET_KEY generators out there. Search the Django docs to come to 
> grips with these two settings.
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:16 AM, J. Paskaruk  > wrote:
>
>> (I actually asked about this in the other thread as well)
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:10:02 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, first official snag. The response to fab all is:
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File 
>>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
>>> line 658, in main
>>> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>>>   File 
>>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
>>> line 165, in load_fabfile
>>> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
>>> conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
>>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 331, in 
>>> 
>>> "SECRET_KEY": SECRET_KEY,
>>> NameError: name 'SECRET_KEY' is not defined
>>>
>>>  -- 
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>>
>
>

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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[Ken Bolton]

ALLOWED_HOSTS is another one you should rely on the Django documentation
for. In fact, that should always be your first path.

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:

> Keys defined in settings.py. new error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py",
> line 658, in main
> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>   File
> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py",
> line 165, in load_fabfile
> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
> conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 347, in 
> from local_settings import *
>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/local_settings.py", line 27, in
> 
> "HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first
> host)
> NameError: name 'ALLOWED_HOSTS' is not defined
>
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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

I don't understand what you mean by my first path. Do you mean the first 
thing I do, or the variable should consist of my first path? Which path is 
my fist path?

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:37:21 AM UTC-6, Kenneth Bolton wrote:
>
> ALLOWED_HOSTS is another one you should rely on the Django documentation 
> for. In fact, that should always be your first path.
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM, J. Paskaruk  > wrote:
>
>> Keys defined in settings.py. new error:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File 
>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
>> line 658, in main
>> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>>   File 
>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
>> line 165, in load_fabfile
>> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
>> conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 347, in 
>> from local_settings import *
>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/local_settings.py", line 27, in 
>> 
>> "HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first 
>> host)
>> NameError: name 'ALLOWED_HOSTS' is not defined
>>
>>  -- 
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>>
>
>

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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

If setting this is a required step to making the tutorial work, you should 
probably make note of that somewhere in the tutorial.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:41:18 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>
> I don't understand what you mean by my first path. Do you mean the first 
> thing I do, or the variable should consist of my first path? Which path is 
> my fist path?
>
> On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:37:21 AM UTC-6, Kenneth Bolton wrote:
>>
>> ALLOWED_HOSTS is another one you should rely on the Django documentation 
>> for. In fact, that should always be your first path.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:
>>
>>> Keys defined in settings.py. new error:
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File 
>>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
>>> line 658, in main
>>> docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
>>>   File 
>>> "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
>>> line 165, in load_fabfile
>>> imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
>>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
>>> conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
>>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 347, in 
>>> from local_settings import *
>>>   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/local_settings.py", line 27, in 
>>> 
>>> "HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first 
>>> host)
>>> NameError: name 'ALLOWED_HOSTS' is not defined
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

Anyways, as I said, I added my actual domain to the variable, but it's 
still asking for a password. I tried just hitting enter, and I tried 
'vagrant' after adding the SSH_PASS variable, but no dice. I have no 
recollection of setting this password anywhere.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:42:00 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>
> If setting this is a required step to making the tutorial work, you should 
> probably make note of that somewhere in the tutorial.
>
> On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:41:18 AM UTC-6, J. Paskaruk wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand what you mean by my first path. Do you mean the first 
>> thing I do, or the variable should consist of my first path? Which path is 
>> my fist path?
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:37:21 AM UTC-6, Kenneth Bolton wrote:
>>>
>>> ALLOWED_HOSTS is another one you should rely on the Django documentation 
>>> for. In fact, that should always be your first path.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:
>>>
 Keys defined in settings.py. new error:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File 
 "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
 line 658, in main
 docstring, callables, default = load_fabfile(fabfile)
   File 
 "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/fabric/main.py", 
 line 165, in load_fabfile
 imported = importer(os.path.splitext(fabfile)[0])
   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/fabfile.py", line 26, in 
 conf = __import__("settings", globals(), locals(), [], 0).FABRIC
   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/settings.py", line 347, in 
 
 from local_settings import *
   File "/home/jimmy/envs/TPH/tenprint/local_settings.py", line 27, in 
 
 "HOSTS": ALLOWED_HOSTS[:1], # List of hosts to deploy to (eg, first 
 host)
 NameError: name 'ALLOWED_HOSTS' is not defined

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 Groups "Mezzanine Users" group.
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>>>
>>>

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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

It's good that you brought this up, because this is actually a problem I've 
had, as someone just starting out with web dev, and with coding, with how 
the CMS is distributed.

Django is the Framework, on top of which Mezzanine, the CMS, runs.

Why, then, is Mezzanine distributed with Django subsumed into its 
installer? This creates a falsely monolithic aspect to Mezzanine. I 
understand the convenience, but it muddies the view.

You quizzed me on irc as to whether I had done the Django tutorial. I told 
you that I had, and indeed, I did it multiple times, and supplemented that 
with other well-known tutorials, both Django and Rails, to solidify the MVC 
concept (it is my policy, whenever possible, to have every thing I learn, 
be it a practical system or an abstract concept, explained to me by three 
different people/documents/videos/tutorials/whatever). The source of my 
glaringly stupid errors is not that I haven't done my homework, however 
that may look.

This is the problem I have with how Mezzanine is distributed - the Django 
tutorial teaches you to think of things as having a certain type of file 
structure, with a models.py and a views.py, for instance, in your project's 
home dir. If you install Mezzanine, these files are not there. They 
obviously are *somewhere*, but they are most distinctly *not* where the 
Django tutorial told me to expect to find them. I did not, and I still do 
not, know exactly how to do deal with that, because it doesn't fit into the 
schema that I learned in the Django tutorial. My intention, when I learned 
about Mezzanine and decided to try it out, was to install it and examine 
the code, *specifically* in the context of having *just* done the Django 
tutorial. But because the files were not where I expected them to be, and 
because I was too new and too ignorant of about a thousand other things (at 
every level - Python, Django, Linux, Abstract Programming Concepts - every 
level), I was stymied. I'm working alone, with no peers, so whatever 
resources are on the net are all I've got. My goal is to be able to work 
straight from Django and develop complex apps of my own (and ultimately, 
recreate my rather simple Blog from my own models and views - not because 
it's better to do it that way, but because it's more instructive and 
useful, on a personal development level, to do it that way).

Mezzanine doesn't just run on top of Django, it *hides* Django, and itself 
for that matter, from the new user, and thus far, I haven't found a 
document on the web that explains why the views.py and models.py got 
hidden, and where I can find them and look them over and mess around with 
them - indeed, *all* of Mezzanine's infrastructure is hidden. If this is a 
structure that has been built on top of a Django framework, why can't I, 
having done the Django tutorial, easily examine that infrastructure, to see 
how it works? Why is the directory structure changed, and where is the 
Mezzanine tutorial that explains this to newbies who have *only* done the 
Django tutorial?

I realize that I can, that I only need to hunt down those views and models, 
which I know are in there somewhere, but the creators of Mezzanine have 
taken steps to make them hard to find for newbies. I'm sure that it makes 
things a million times easier for professionals, of course, in ways that I 
do not understand yet, but of which I acknowlege, and plead, my own 
ignorance.

So, when you admonish me to check the Django docs in cases where the 
problem is a Django problem rather than a Mezzanine problem, I would like 
*nothing* more than to do just that, I assure you, but I'm at the "drinking 
from the firehose" phase of my personal development into a developer, and I 
have a hard enough time sorting out which parts are Django and which parts 
are Mezzanine, *without* the fact that Mezzanine is not distributed 
separately from Django in spite of the fact that it *is* separate from 
Django, and indeed, is setup in such a way as to make the lines between the 
two *extremely* blurry for a beginner like me.

I noticed, as a suggestion, that there's an IDE, Aptana I think? That's 
distributed both as a monolithic app, and as a plugin to Eclipse - maybe 
Mezzanine could release an "explicit" version that "plugs into" a raw 
Django server, so that competent-but-ignorant folks like myself, fresh out 
of Django tutorial school, could more easily recognize that line between 
Django and Mezz? I've actually been trying to figure out how to find the 
actual Mezzanine code for a while now, cause the way I really learn is by 
messing around with stuff at that level, changing words or colour settings, 
so I can just see what affects what, and after a while (after breaking and 
restoring it a billion times) I get so I really know the thing. But 
reaching that point is touch and go, and unfortunately, the working dev's 
emphasis on "getting things done" stands in the way of actual learning, 
much of the time. While I recogniz

Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[Ken Bolton]

I hear your frustration and I know it well. When I started with this whole
web thing, the browsers provided no way to view the source code. MacWeb was
a revelation and taught me more in minutes than I had been able to learn in
weeks.

Continue reading my commentary inline below.

On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 10:35 AM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:

> It's good that you brought this up, because this is actually a problem
> I've had, as someone just starting out with web dev, and with coding, with
> how the CMS is distributed.
>

 Consider yourself fortunate to be coming at this in a time when packaging
is much better than any previous point in Python's history to date. There
is room for improvement, certainly, but Mezzanine (and Django) adhere to
the current best practices for Python packaging.

Django is the Framework, on top of which Mezzanine, the CMS, runs.
>

And Django itself is just an application written in Python.


> Why, then, is Mezzanine distributed with Django subsumed into its
> installer? This creates a falsely monolithic aspect to Mezzanine. I
> understand the convenience, but it muddies the view.
>

Let's start by looking at the setup.py

file, the link to which should highlight the `install_requires` argument to
the `setup` method of the setuptools module. If you clone the repository
and run `python setup.py install` at the root of the clone, the files
listed in `install_requires` will be installed. The recommended `pip
install mezzanine` runs `python setup.py install` behind the scenes (though
it may be more complicated, I have not dug deep.) The installation process
copies the files to a location on your Python path, usually into the
`site-packages` directory associated with the python being called. If you
use virtualenv (recommended), you create a python environment isolated from
the rest of the system. I keep my virtualenvs in a hidden directory in my
user directory. A new Mezzanine project might live at
~/.virtualenvs/mezzanine-project/. Within mezzanine-project, I will have
access to `./lib/python2.7/site-packages/`. Note the variable version
number of Python in that path! Once Mezzanine is installed, Django, Pillow,
and the other `install_requires` modules will be viewable in
`site-packages`. A strong word of caution: modifying files in
`site-packages` will lead to pain and befuddlement! The only reason to make
changes to the Mezzanine code is if you want to add features to Mezzanine
to share with the rest of the world, in which case the installation method
is very different!

When I want to review Mezzanine code, I do it in BitBucket or GitHub. The
search interfaces are good and I can easily view the history of the files.

You quizzed me on irc as to whether I had done the Django tutorial. I told
> you that I had, and indeed, I did it multiple times, and supplemented that
> with other well-known tutorials, both Django and Rails, to solidify the MVC
> concept (it is my policy, whenever possible, to have every thing I learn,
> be it a practical system or an abstract concept, explained to me by three
> different people/documents/videos/tutorials/whatever). The source of my
> glaringly stupid errors is not that I haven't done my homework, however
> that may look.
>

I ask everybody asking for help those same questions. On the internet,
nobody knows I am a dog. And this dog has no idea what my interlocutors
know. So I ask those questions in an attempt to provide answers that will
make the most sense based on the level of knowledge and experience. You are
doing great, and I relish the opportunity to give back to the community
which continues to give so much in the hopes that you will someday be in a
position to give back similarly.


> This is the problem I have with how Mezzanine is distributed - the Django
> tutorial teaches you to think of things as having a certain type of file
> structure, with a models.py and a views.py, for instance, in your project's
> home dir. If you install Mezzanine, these files are not there. They
> obviously are *somewhere*, but they are most distinctly *not* where the
> Django tutorial told me to expect to find them. I did not, and I still do
> not, know exactly how to do deal with that, because it doesn't fit into the
> schema that I learned in the Django tutorial. My intention, when I learned
> about Mezzanine and decided to try it out, was to install it and examine
> the code, *specifically* in the context of having *just* done the Django
> tutorial. But because the files were not where I expected them to be, and
> because I was too new and too ignorant of about a thousand other things (at
> every level - Python, Django, Linux, Abstract Programming Concepts - every
> level), I was stymied. I'm working alone, with no peers, so whatever
> resources are on the net are all I've got. My goal is to be able to work
> straight from Django and develop complex apps of my own (and ultimately,
> recreate my ra

Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[Ken Bolton]

http://effectivedjango.com/  <== Very helpful!

Just keep at it. For whatever it is worth, I am largely self taught. When I
started, documentation and "use the source, luke" was most of the help
available. It took me years to start diving into that good stuff. I can
tell you the reason I went with Django over RoR or a PHP framework was the
quality of the documentation and the readability of the Python code.

The place to start, I think, in reading the Mezzanine code is in the base
urls.py
.
Work your way down the file and understand each line. Follow the patterns
into the apps that make up Mezzanine – e.g. core, generic, blog, and pages
– and read their respective urls.py.

If it helps, think of Mezzanine as a Django app that has already been built
to eliminate the tedium of building yet another hierarchical page, gallery,
and blogging engine. The deeper your understanding of and comfort with
Django, the better the whole thing will click. An instructive analogy, for
me, is to reading and writing prose. The more prose you read, the better
you get at reading it. Once you have read enough prose, the quality of your
own prose will begin to improve (hopefully) and before long reading and
writing prose becomes second nature. Code – whether Python, Ruby, Java –
needs to be practiced, and reading code is the first step.

Ultimately, just keep at it. If it interests you and you put in enough
time, things will click. Some people get that click quickly. It took me a
long time – almost 14 years – to transition from beginner reader of code
convinced I had no aptitude for it to the first steps down with writing
code on my own. The best part is that once the dots start to connect, the
world really opens up. Also, the learning NEVER ends!

best,
ken


On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 8:09 PM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:

> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm pretty good at expressing myself with
> words (no braggin', as Will Sonnett used to say at 3am, just facts), but
> sometimes that expressive ability makes me come off like an arsehole. Most
> cause I'm kind of an arsehole. But my intentions are very good, for
> whatever that's worth. I read the fab docs yesterday. Anyways, I see the
> value of all these things. Just continuing to hold my face squarely in
> front of this here firehose.
>
> The way I'm looking at the best practices thing is that there are best
> practices for working professionals, and there are best practices for
> students. I know that there are many more days ahead of me, reading docs,
> but at this point I'm flailing just to find the right docs to read (if you
> have any "everyone should read this" links or books, or hell, if someone's
> laid out a curriculum that you think I should follow, I'm all ears...).
> This whole experience has been very instructive, needless to say, and
> that's all I'm after for the moment - grand failures that reveal inner
> workings. In order to fail in a properly grand fashion, I need to have the
> ability to throw a wrench into the gears of the factory, which fortunately
> for us, is perfectly fine to do in circumstances where the entire factory
> can be restored by a keystroke. But the entire system is, of course,
> designed to stop people from doing such foolish things in daily life. Every
> tutorial contains at least a nod, and usually a speech that borders on
> sanctimony, about best security practices. Not that this is not valuable
> knowledge, of course, but security is not your priority if you're trying to
> learn how to code a given functionality.
>
> Anyways, my site is currently laid out with "pure" css, right now I'm
> occupying myself by trying to recreate the same layout leaving bootstrap
> intact. Being that I've done a couple of respectable responsive designs on
> my own, I'm not a big fan of Bootstrap's complexity, but then, I want a
> job. Also, I'm told it's very good at automating form validation, which I'm
> all for avoiding if I can...:>
>
> Anyways, again, I appreciate your help AND doubly appreciate your
> encouragement. Schools and teachers have never worked for me, so learning
> things is always a struggle, and finding people with the right sort of
> patience is a struggle of its own.
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Mezzanine Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to mezzanine-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[J. Paskaruk]

I'm divin', man, I'm divin'. Honestly, I'm actually very comfortable with 
what Django is and does, in the abstract, and I have a couple of things I 
plan to develop literally as soon as I have a live site deployed. 

First is, I'm planning to move in the next couple months, and among the 
things to do is sell off my book collection, so I'm gonna write a little 
app to list my books, with prices, genre, etc - I seem to vaguely recall 
that there is actually a Python library that enables you to scan barcodes 
and get book info, which (if that actually exists) will be a useful 
exercise in importing libraries, doing stuff in views, etc. I have a few 
other, weirder ideas too, and home automation was one of the main things 
that brought me here. Start off with little things like this, but I need to 
be able to share the durn thing with my friends, and I also need a working 
web page. I hate PHP. I put it up with Wordpress because Wordpress has a 
huge community, basically, and I figured (rightly) that I would have the 
easiest time with it, and my goal at the time was more to get my CSS-fu, 
which I largely have now done. I'm just about ready to start integrating 
jquery into my designs (as mentioned, I actually did my first little jq 
piece the other day, but now I need to add an on resize thing... lotsa 
fun.).

The actual programming is basically just some time I need to spend building 
increasingly complex things, but I didn't want to waste any time developing 
on Wordpress, hence my desire to just get *something* deployed, and start 
building from there. 

I'll peruse the repo for sure, and I will orient around the urls. That 
(indicating where I should start looking, in the abstract) is a very useful 
piece of advice for the way my brain works. :>

On Friday, December 26, 2014 9:02:46 PM UTC-6, Kenneth Bolton wrote:
>
> http://effectivedjango.com/  <== Very helpful!
>
> Just keep at it. For whatever it is worth, I am largely self taught. When 
> I started, documentation and "use the source, luke" was most of the help 
> available. It took me years to start diving into that good stuff. I can 
> tell you the reason I went with Django over RoR or a PHP framework was the 
> quality of the documentation and the readability of the Python code. 
>
> The place to start, I think, in reading the Mezzanine code is in the base 
> urls.py 
> . 
> Work your way down the file and understand each line. Follow the patterns 
> into the apps that make up Mezzanine – e.g. core, generic, blog, and pages 
> – and read their respective urls.py.
>
> If it helps, think of Mezzanine as a Django app that has already been 
> built to eliminate the tedium of building yet another hierarchical page, 
> gallery, and blogging engine. The deeper your understanding of and comfort 
> with Django, the better the whole thing will click. An instructive analogy, 
> for me, is to reading and writing prose. The more prose you read, the 
> better you get at reading it. Once you have read enough prose, the quality 
> of your own prose will begin to improve (hopefully) and before long reading 
> and writing prose becomes second nature. Code – whether Python, Ruby, Java 
> – needs to be practiced, and reading code is the first step.
>
> Ultimately, just keep at it. If it interests you and you put in enough 
> time, things will click. Some people get that click quickly. It took me a 
> long time – almost 14 years – to transition from beginner reader of code 
> convinced I had no aptitude for it to the first steps down with writing 
> code on my own. The best part is that once the dots start to connect, the 
> world really opens up. Also, the learning NEVER ends!
>
> best,
> ken
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 8:09 PM, J. Paskaruk  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm pretty good at expressing myself with 
>> words (no braggin', as Will Sonnett used to say at 3am, just facts), but 
>> sometimes that expressive ability makes me come off like an arsehole. Most 
>> cause I'm kind of an arsehole. But my intentions are very good, for 
>> whatever that's worth. I read the fab docs yesterday. Anyways, I see the 
>> value of all these things. Just continuing to hold my face squarely in 
>> front of this here firehose. 
>>
>> The way I'm looking at the best practices thing is that there are best 
>> practices for working professionals, and there are best practices for 
>> students. I know that there are many more days ahead of me, reading docs, 
>> but at this point I'm flailing just to find the right docs to read (if you 
>> have any "everyone should read this" links or books, or hell, if someone's 
>> laid out a curriculum that you think I should follow, I'm all ears...). 
>> This whole experience has been very instructive, needless to say, and 
>> that's all I'm after for the moment - grand failures that reveal inner 
>> workings. In order to fail in a properly grand fashion, I

Re: [mezzanine-users] Re: Is there a way to add Mezzanine to the One-Click Django server on DigitalOcean?

[Ken Bolton]

It sounds like your project might be hindered by Mezzanine, at least
initially. I would approach it first as a standalone Django app, make sure
it does what you expect it to do, iron out the issues and refine the
complexities. That will give you the experience to begin to grok what
Mezzanine is doing "under the hood". Once you have your proof of concept,
adding existing Django code to a vanilla Mezzanine project is a great
exercise for developing an appreciation of the relationship between the two
projects.

I have no opinions on front-end technologies. I leave that work to others.

- ken

On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 11:02 PM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:

> I'm divin', man, I'm divin'. Honestly, I'm actually very comfortable with
> what Django is and does, in the abstract, and I have a couple of things I
> plan to develop literally as soon as I have a live site deployed.
>
> First is, I'm planning to move in the next couple months, and among the
> things to do is sell off my book collection, so I'm gonna write a little
> app to list my books, with prices, genre, etc - I seem to vaguely recall
> that there is actually a Python library that enables you to scan barcodes
> and get book info, which (if that actually exists) will be a useful
> exercise in importing libraries, doing stuff in views, etc. I have a few
> other, weirder ideas too, and home automation was one of the main things
> that brought me here. Start off with little things like this, but I need to
> be able to share the durn thing with my friends, and I also need a working
> web page. I hate PHP. I put it up with Wordpress because Wordpress has a
> huge community, basically, and I figured (rightly) that I would have the
> easiest time with it, and my goal at the time was more to get my CSS-fu,
> which I largely have now done. I'm just about ready to start integrating
> jquery into my designs (as mentioned, I actually did my first little jq
> piece the other day, but now I need to add an on resize thing... lotsa
> fun.).
>
> The actual programming is basically just some time I need to spend
> building increasingly complex things, but I didn't want to waste any time
> developing on Wordpress, hence my desire to just get *something* deployed,
> and start building from there.
>
> I'll peruse the repo for sure, and I will orient around the urls. That
> (indicating where I should start looking, in the abstract) is a very useful
> piece of advice for the way my brain works. :>
>
> On Friday, December 26, 2014 9:02:46 PM UTC-6, Kenneth Bolton wrote:
>>
>> http://effectivedjango.com/  <== Very helpful!
>>
>> Just keep at it. For whatever it is worth, I am largely self taught. When
>> I started, documentation and "use the source, luke" was most of the help
>> available. It took me years to start diving into that good stuff. I can
>> tell you the reason I went with Django over RoR or a PHP framework was the
>> quality of the documentation and the readability of the Python code.
>>
>> The place to start, I think, in reading the Mezzanine code is in the base
>> urls.py
>> .
>> Work your way down the file and understand each line. Follow the patterns
>> into the apps that make up Mezzanine – e.g. core, generic, blog, and pages
>> – and read their respective urls.py.
>>
>> If it helps, think of Mezzanine as a Django app that has already been
>> built to eliminate the tedium of building yet another hierarchical page,
>> gallery, and blogging engine. The deeper your understanding of and comfort
>> with Django, the better the whole thing will click. An instructive analogy,
>> for me, is to reading and writing prose. The more prose you read, the
>> better you get at reading it. Once you have read enough prose, the quality
>> of your own prose will begin to improve (hopefully) and before long reading
>> and writing prose becomes second nature. Code – whether Python, Ruby, Java
>> – needs to be practiced, and reading code is the first step.
>>
>> Ultimately, just keep at it. If it interests you and you put in enough
>> time, things will click. Some people get that click quickly. It took me a
>> long time – almost 14 years – to transition from beginner reader of code
>> convinced I had no aptitude for it to the first steps down with writing
>> code on my own. The best part is that once the dots start to connect, the
>> world really opens up. Also, the learning NEVER ends!
>>
>> best,
>> ken
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 8:09 PM, J. Paskaruk  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm pretty good at expressing myself with
>>> words (no braggin', as Will Sonnett used to say at 3am, just facts), but
>>> sometimes that expressive ability makes me come off like an arsehole. Most
>>> cause I'm kind of an arsehole. But my intentions are very good, for
>>> whatever that's worth. I read the fab docs yesterday. Anyways, I see the
>>> value of all these things. Just continuing to hold my face squarely in
>>> fr