Re: [uf-discuss] Outlook

[Michael MD]

AFAIK this is now fixed in Outlook 2007, consider upgrading if your
preferred calendar application is Outlook.


haven't seen this yet .. around here everyone is still using Outlook 2003 or 
earlier


I'd love to know if Outlook 2007 can import/export a calendar (from/to iCal 
format) rather than just single events

(so far I haven't found a way to do this with Outlook)
or if there are any new features that might be useful for describing what 
city/country an event is in.
(perhaps a simple way to create vcard for the location of each event somehow 
combined with the event data?

- much like a hCard for a venue address is often embedded in hCal listings)

This is something seriously lacking in ALL desktop calendar apps I've seen 
so far.




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[uf-discuss] Avoiding duplicating org info in cards

[Stephanie Hobson]

Hi all,

I am hoping to convert a few of my clients contact pages into
microformats soon and I have been searching for a way to avoid
duplicating the organization's contact information (which is listed at
the top of the page) in the vcard (hcard?) of every person on the
page.

I remember hearing about a way using object tags on the list a few
weeks ago but my searches of the archives and the wiki have been
fruitless.  If someone could point me in the right direction, or
better yet provide an example (I find the wiki a little hard to read)
I would be grateful!

Also, since I'm asking n00b questions:  What is the difference between
vcard and hcard and what is the proper use of each?  Am I marking up
my websites with vcards or hcards?

Thanks!
-Stephanie.
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Re: [uf-discuss] Question about telephone numbers

[Paul Wilkins]

From: "Rickards, Julian (NDM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Microformats Discuss" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:10 AM
Subject: RE: [uf-discuss] Question about telephone numbers



Thanks Paul for your reply but I have two issues with your statements at
the bottom.


1. I proposed the title attribute to store the telephone type and you
replied that the "title attribute isn't workable with microformats ...
unless it is [in] the abbr tag". My issue with this is that the title
attribute is a Core attribute and may be used in any tag. Therefore, it
should be possible to store this type of information in the title
attribute without requiring the abbr element. The fact that the hCard
specification doesn't allow or support this is another issue but it
should be possible.


Because something is possible doesn't mean that it's a good idea. 
Microformats are designed to be applied on pre-existing information, and if 
any of that information has title attributes already applied to it, we don't 
want that information to mistakenly flow over into the microformat itself.




2. I have never seen reference to anything in the Microformats
specifications that suggest that styling microformats must be compatible
with all browsers which is the only reason why you might want to
consider attribute selectors. Therefore, I don't think that browser
compatibility for attribute selectors should be a valid reason not to
use the title attribute to store the phone type.



I'm thinking about styles that may want to be applied to the abbr tag. IE 
just won't allow this to occur.




However, as I was thinking about this during this morning, I realized
that microformats do offer an alternative, even if it isn't spelled out
as part of the hCard specification for the telephone component and that
is to use multiple classes. It is perfectly legal (and required in some
instances) to use class="fn n", this pattern could be extended to be
used as class="value work" and class="value home" etc.

For example:


   Toll-free Phone: 1-800-567-7890
   Toll-free Fax: 1-800-567-0987



This technique is in danger of overloading the already crowded class name 
space. The number of class names that are used should be kept to a minimum.




The current format forces us to include "voice" or "fax" in text rather
than in the attributes. In my original case, I didn't want to include
the word "voice" in the text because in the contacts page I was/am
creating, all of the numbers were voice numbers (all of the people in
the contacts page share a single fax number so I didn't need to specify
a fax number for each and use "fax" and "voice" to distinguish them for
each person).

The other problem I will encounter is the fact that because my efforts
are on our government web pages (in Ontario, Canada, all government
pages must be in both English and French), I must use the French
equivalent to "voice" and "fax" in the text which means that the
microformat will be broken. However, if "voice" and "fax" were accepted
as attribute values, then I don't need to worry about the text in the
page because the attribute value would be used instead of the text.


This was covered recently, and general consensus is that the abbr design 
pattern is the most appropriate choice on resolving such issues.


Téléc

--
Paul Wilkins 


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RE: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

Since the "suits" approve the spending, perhaps this wasn't as much of a
mistake as you might have thought.

-Original Message-
> My preference is not the issue (no, it is not Outlook). This was 
> Outlook 2003, the standard install in my old company and here.
> "Upgrade and it'll work" didn't work for browsers, and with Office 
> suits it even involves spending money.

suites of course :)

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Re: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

[James Craig]

Apologies for not responding sooner. I've been working on a test case  
script for all of the possibilities listed on the assistive- 
technology-abbr-results pages, but side work always falls behind work  
work. I'm getting close, I swear. Please add this format to the list  
if you'd like us to test it, though on first glance, I don't think it  
will be any better for the sake of AT. It might actually be worse,  
because the agents that speak the title attribute node out loud would  
also speak the following text node.


http://microformats.org/wiki/assistive-technology-abbr-results


Andy Mabbett wrote:


I've been working with Great Circle Mapper to add hCard and geo
microformats to their website. This has been done; for example on:

  

  (aka )

and they've come up with this way of working-around recent concerns
about mis-use of "abbr":

  
52^27'14"N
01^44'53"W
  

(degree symbols replaced with ASCII "^")

I admire the lateral thinking, but I wonder if this is any better,  
from
the PoV of people using assistive technology? If it is, it would  
seem to

provide a simple work-around to recent concerns.



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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Christian Heilmann]

> conversions of events to ics files with the technorati converter
> gave me files Outlook didn't understand.
>
> I know this is Outlook's fault, but to sell the idea of Microformats
> to people in charge of IT companies right now, we have to find a way
> to make this work in the current setups of those people which are
> Outlook and Windows.

Which version of Outlook and Windows were you using?

AFAIK this is now fixed in Outlook 2007, consider upgrading if your
preferred calendar application is Outlook.


My preference is not the issue (no, it is not Outlook). This was
Outlook 2003, the standard install in my old company and here.
"Upgrade and it'll work" didn't work for browsers, and with Office
suits it even involves spending money.

--
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Christian Heilmann]

> AFAIK this is now fixed in Outlook 2007, consider upgrading if your
> preferred calendar application is Outlook.

My preference is not the issue (no, it is not Outlook). This was
Outlook 2003, the standard install in my old company and here.
"Upgrade and it'll work" didn't work for browsers, and with Office
suits it even involves spending money.


suites of course :)
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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Tantek Çelik]

On 6/25/07 10:39 AM, "Christian Heilmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> conversions of events to ics files with the technorati converter
> gave me files Outlook didn't understand.
> 
> I know this is Outlook's fault, but to sell the idea of Microformats
> to people in charge of IT companies right now, we have to find a way
> to make this work in the current setups of those people which are
> Outlook and Windows.

Which version of Outlook and Windows were you using?

AFAIK this is now fixed in Outlook 2007, consider upgrading if your
preferred calendar application is Outlook.

Thanks,

Tantek

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RE: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

 That sounds great!

Contrary to a previous commenter, I wasn't looking for a solution where
JS could be used to detect whether or not there was a vcard-compatible
application (i.e., Outlook) installed. (Does anyone know if Thunderbird
is vcard compatible?)

Although the two Web-based solutions are great, for anyone behind a
firewall, it might not work so a local JS solution may be the way to go.

Jules

-Original Message-
> I'm actually in the planning process of making something just like
that. I'm not sure if its do-able but I am looking into it.
> If I ever figure it out I'll be sure to post.

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Re: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Andrew Jaswa]

On 6/25/07, Rickards, Julian (NDM) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi:

The Tails Export add-on for FF is great but if I am inserting hCard
"data" into my contact page, I would like to find a way to put a
JavaScript link in my page (unobtrusive JavaScript would be perfect)
whereby a user using any recent browser (and a vcard-compatible
application like Outlook) could click on the link to have the contact
information added to their contact list. Somewhat like Tails Export but
rather than an extension, the link would be right in the page and would
not depend on FF but work in IE too.

Does anyone know if something like this has been created (didn't find
any in my Google search)?

Jules



I'm actually in the planning process of making something just like
that. I'm not sure if its do-able but I am looking into it. If I ever
figure it out I'll be sure to post.

Andrew
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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Christian Heilmann]

> vcard or throw a message that there is not enough data to convert this
> into a meaningful vcard.

Why do you seem to imply that a name is not already "meaningful"? If I
vcard "Bill Clinton" or "The Pope" I'll know where to reach them when
I need them. :-)

In my view the need for a contact handle is not an absolute
constraint; if I collect members on a forum board, I'm glad to be able
to process a list of names of who participated, even if I'm not sure I
can reach any of them anywhere else than on that board. You even have
dead people in directories (think "your grand grand ma's buddies at
school").

I don't think the RFCs for vcard say that an address is a MUST.


Sure, but why do we do this: to help people re-use information or to
follow an RFC? The bigggest selling point for microformats to any
integrator right now is showing how you can use an hcard and add it as
a useful contact to your Outlook. Of course there are cases where the
name is enough, but these are rare and could be caught by clever
software, too. A converter can throw a warning that this hcard is only
a name and have a checkbox to tell it that this is enough for you.

Case in point: I made a screencast for the development team of a
toolbar that comes with the browser of an ISP. I wanted to show them
the usefulness of operator and how people can collect information with
the toolbar that can be re-used in their day to day office work. I had
to switch to a mac and only use pages I knew to have enough content as
the backnetwork of hackday for example gave me names but nothing else
and conversions of events to ics files with the technorati converter
gave me files Outlook didn't understand.

I know this is Outlook's fault, but to sell the idea of Microformats
to people in charge of IT companies right now, we have to find a way
to make this work in the current setups of those people which are
Outlook and Windows. Grassroots is awesome and we can spend a lot of
time telling each other how to do things, but I would for example like
to be able to have converted vcards of people in my council without
having to dig through 4 levels of navigation every time I need their
contact details.

--
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Thom Shannon]

I agree, a generic hCa* button would be far too complicated, just look 
at the hCard builder tool.


What I'm thinking is something where the web designer who's configuring 
the CMS and building CSS can decide what the content author sees and 
uses. For example my client adds lists of training events on her site 
under different pages and often in amongst copy, some times its a list 
of a few, sometimes just one. I want to define a template for a list and 
a template for a single item, choosing the small number of fields I know 
she'll need. Then when she edits in the training section she'll see 
these two clear buttons, with labels I've defined, that help her add an 
event. It looks all nice and consistent and gets a map link that I've 
added in the template, so there are clear benefits/motivation for her to 
do it.


It's to bridge the gap between usability and relevant data description.
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Re: [uf-discuss] Generating valid unique IDs for hAtom

[Ryan King]

On Jun 21, 2007, at 8:03 AM, Jon Gibbins (dotjay) wrote:

I've been looking into generating unique references for entries  
that can be used in the id attribute for an hAtom implementation.  
Does anyone actually have a solution for this?


I've been using something along the lines of:
tag:example.org:2007-06-21:title-of-the-entry

It's valid HTML, but not a proper tag URI as far as I can tell from  
RFC 4151. Would it be worth coming up with a microformat standard  
for people to follow that is valid HTML, using [A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9_: 
\.-]? Tag URIs don't work and neither do permalinks? Is there  
another standard we can use?


Incidentally, from the microformats wiki:

"the syntax of tag URIs and html id attributes are incompatible.  
HTML disallows forward-slash (/) in ids [1] (http://www.w3.org/TR/ 
html401/types.html#type-name), while tag URIs require them"


http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues#Entry_id_.28atom:id.29

I'm too afraid of getting shouted at to go and edit the wiki, but  
this doesn't sound right to me? Forward slashes aren't *required*  
by the tag URI specification as far as I can see, but commas *are*  
required and not permitted in HTML:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-name

It still renders tag URIs inappropriate, but I think the details  
are wrong and might want correcting.


I believe I wrote that section. If you think it's wrong, please add a  
correction after it.


Thanks,
ryan
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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Fil]

vcard or throw a message that there is not enough data to convert this
into a meaningful vcard.


Why do you seem to imply that a name is not already "meaningful"? If I
vcard "Bill Clinton" or "The Pope" I'll know where to reach them when
I need them. :-)

In my view the need for a contact handle is not an absolute
constraint; if I collect members on a forum board, I'm glad to be able
to process a list of names of who participated, even if I'm not sure I
can reach any of them anywhere else than on that board. You even have
dead people in directories (think "your grand grand ma's buddies at
school").

I don't think the RFCs for vcard say that an address is a MUST.

-- Fil
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RE: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

Using the PDF from suda.co.uk that identifies the components of
microformats, it suggests that the only two required classes of the
hCard are vcard and fn. If a validator is looking for more (assuming you
are using the hCard specification as the standard and not the standard
for the business that might also require email, phone and/or other
components to be valid within that business), then the specification (or
the PDF) should make that clear to us.

Jules

-Original Message-
Chris Heilmann wrote:

... This is the other side of development where we need to improve:
simply converting an hcard to vcard via XSLT is not enough, the
conversion script needs to be clever enough to validate if there is at
least a url, phone number or email before converting it to vcard or
throw a message that there is not enough data to convert this into a
meaningful vcard.

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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Christian Heilmann]

I also think that bad microformatting is worse than no microformatting at
all. Do we really need a lot of hcards with just a name and no other contact
info?  That's what you'd start getting if you add the functionality to a
basic editor.


Well, this is what we are getting now with a lot of automatically
generated hcards, too. This is the other side of development where we
need to improve: simply converting an hcard to vcard via XSLT is not
enough, the conversion script needs to be clever enough to validate if
there is at least a url, phone number or email before converting it to
vcard or throw a message that there is not enough data to convert this
into a meaningful vcard.

--
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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RE: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Ted Drake]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Christian Heilmann
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:29 AM
To: Microformats Discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

> Recently I've been thinking about how can I make it easier for my
> non-tech clients using our web based CMS to write POSH and Microformats.
> I've just written some thoughts on my blog:
> http://www.ts0.com/2007/06/posh-wysiwyg.asp
> but im wondering if anyone else has done this before? if anyone has any
> input?
>
> Adding microformat markup into db loops on big sites listing people and
> events is really useful and opens up masses of data, but if we can get
> ordinary people to start using them it'll open up a whole new world of
> really meaty data.

Full ACK, this is for me one of the biggest misconceptions about
microformats: that you can control the HTML. Most of the people I know
who write a lot of content for the web never touch HTML and have no
clue about it - and why should they? We invented CMS tools to stop
people from randomly adding their own FONT and CENTER tags.

WYSIWYG hcard editors for CMS would help allow these people to mark
things up as hcards without knowing it. I started writing a WordPress
plugin that adds something like the hcard generator below the main
entry box, but this is still too complex.

-- 
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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I agree with Christian. I am building a little form to add microformatted
details to a template. I think a wysywyg editor/microformatter is great for
specific uses, i.e. editing contact details, adding event details, adding
reviews. However, if you add this functionality to a normal inline editor,
the interface would be too complicated and filled with strange buttons for
the average user. 

I also think that bad microformatting is worse than no microformatting at
all. Do we really need a lot of hcards with just a name and no other contact
info?  That's what you'd start getting if you add the functionality to a
basic editor.

Ted Drake
www.last-child.com


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RE: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

Thanks everyone who responded.

Is this information on the hCard Wiki? I remember seeing reference to
X2V but I didn't realize that it could be used in this manner?

Jules 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Scott Reynen
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 12:11 PM
To: Microformats Discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

I don't think it's possible for JavaScript to determine if a vCard-
compatible application like Outlook is available.  But if you're willing
to leave that up to people to determine, for creating links to vCard
exports, you can link directly to one of the various hCard- to-vCard
proxy services, e.g.:

http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
http://technorati.com/contacts/

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Re: [uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Christian Heilmann]

Recently I've been thinking about how can I make it easier for my
non-tech clients using our web based CMS to write POSH and Microformats.
I've just written some thoughts on my blog:
http://www.ts0.com/2007/06/posh-wysiwyg.asp
but im wondering if anyone else has done this before? if anyone has any
input?

Adding microformat markup into db loops on big sites listing people and
events is really useful and opens up masses of data, but if we can get
ordinary people to start using them it'll open up a whole new world of
really meaty data.


Full ACK, this is for me one of the biggest misconceptions about
microformats: that you can control the HTML. Most of the people I know
who write a lot of content for the web never touch HTML and have no
clue about it - and why should they? We invented CMS tools to stop
people from randomly adding their own FONT and CENTER tags.

WYSIWYG hcard editors for CMS would help allow these people to mark
things up as hcards without knowing it. I started writing a WordPress
plugin that adds something like the hcard generator below the main
entry box, but this is still too complex.

--
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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[uf-discuss] wysiwyg editors and microformats

[Thom Shannon]

Recently I've been thinking about how can I make it easier for my 
non-tech clients using our web based CMS to write POSH and Microformats. 
I've just written some thoughts on my blog:

http://www.ts0.com/2007/06/posh-wysiwyg.asp
but im wondering if anyone else has done this before? if anyone has any 
input?


Adding microformat markup into db loops on big sites listing people and 
events is really useful and opens up masses of data, but if we can get 
ordinary people to start using them it'll open up a whole new world of 
really meaty data.


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Re: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Thom Shannon]

There's an example right on my blog http://www.ts0.com/
right hand side "Download a vCard (for Outlook)"

Rickards, Julian (NDM) wrote:

Hi:

The Tails Export add-on for FF is great but if I am inserting hCard
"data" into my contact page, I would like to find a way to put a
JavaScript link in my page (unobtrusive JavaScript would be perfect)
whereby a user using any recent browser (and a vcard-compatible
application like Outlook) could click on the link to have the contact
information added to their contact list. Somewhat like Tails Export but
rather than an extension, the link would be right in the page and would
not depend on FF but work in IE too.

Does anyone know if something like this has been created (didn't find
any in my Google search)?

Jules

--
Julian Rickards
Geoscience Data Conversion Technician
Provincial Recording Office, Level B3
Sudbury, ON  P3E 6B5
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: (705) 670-5861, Fax: (705) 670-5881

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Re: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Scott Reynen]

On Jun 25, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Rickards, Julian (NDM) wrote:


The Tails Export add-on for FF is great but if I am inserting hCard
"data" into my contact page, I would like to find a way to put a
JavaScript link in my page (unobtrusive JavaScript would be perfect)
whereby a user using any recent browser (and a vcard-compatible
application like Outlook) could click on the link to have the contact
information added to their contact list. Somewhat like Tails Export  
but
rather than an extension, the link would be right in the page and  
would

not depend on FF but work in IE too.

Does anyone know if something like this has been created (didn't find
any in my Google search)?


I don't think it's possible for JavaScript to determine if a vCard- 
compatible application like Outlook is available.  But if you're  
willing to leave that up to people to determine, for creating links  
to vCard exports, you can link directly to one of the various hCard- 
to-vCard proxy services, e.g.:


http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
http://technorati.com/contacts/

Peace,
Scott

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Re: [uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Christian Heilmann]

Hi:

The Tails Export add-on for FF is great but if I am inserting hCard
"data" into my contact page, I would like to find a way to put a
JavaScript link in my page (unobtrusive JavaScript would be perfect)
whereby a user using any recent browser (and a vcard-compatible
application like Outlook) could click on the link to have the contact
information added to their contact list. Somewhat like Tails Export but
rather than an extension, the link would be right in the page and would
not depend on FF but work in IE too.

Does anyone know if something like this has been created (didn't find
any in my Google search)?


No need for JS, just send it through the Technorati converter:

http://technorati.com/contacts/

For example: http://technorati.com/contacts/http://wait-till-i.com";>download
my vcard



--
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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[uf-discuss] hCard to vCard via JavaScript

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

Hi:

The Tails Export add-on for FF is great but if I am inserting hCard
"data" into my contact page, I would like to find a way to put a
JavaScript link in my page (unobtrusive JavaScript would be perfect)
whereby a user using any recent browser (and a vcard-compatible
application like Outlook) could click on the link to have the contact
information added to their contact list. Somewhat like Tails Export but
rather than an extension, the link would be right in the page and would
not depend on FF but work in IE too.

Does anyone know if something like this has been created (didn't find
any in my Google search)?

Jules

--
Julian Rickards
Geoscience Data Conversion Technician
Provincial Recording Office, Level B3
Sudbury, ON  P3E 6B5
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: (705) 670-5861, Fax: (705) 670-5881

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RE: [uf-discuss] "abbr" and accessibility - a work around.

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

Andy wrote: 

> ... and they've come up with this way of working-around recent concerns about 
> mis-use of "abbr":
>
>  
>52^27'14"N
>01^44'53"W
>  
>
> (degree symbols replaced with ASCII "^")
>
> I admire the lateral thinking, but I wonder if this is any better, from the 
> PoV of people using assistive technology? If it is, it
> would seem to provide a simple work-around to recent concerns.

I must say that I don't like this because this code isn't providing an 
abbreviation for anything. Secondly, it may be (I haven't tested this in JAWS) 
that if JAWS is configured to read title text, unlike standard abbreviations 
where the title text would be read instead of the abbreviation, in this case, 
both the title text and the full text would be read because the full text is 
outside of the abbr element.

Secondly, what is wrong with the degree symbol (º or º)? I think that 
screen reader users would recognize that character when it is used and sighted 
users would also (and in fact be confused by the ^).

Jules

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RE: [uf-discuss] Question about telephone numbers

[Rickards, Julian (NDM)]

Thanks Paul for your reply but I have two issues with your statements at
the bottom. 


1. I proposed the title attribute to store the telephone type and you
replied that the "title attribute isn't workable with microformats ...
unless it is [in] the abbr tag". My issue with this is that the title
attribute is a Core attribute and may be used in any tag. Therefore, it
should be possible to store this type of information in the title
attribute without requiring the abbr element. The fact that the hCard
specification doesn't allow or support this is another issue but it
should be possible.
 
2. I have never seen reference to anything in the Microformats
specifications that suggest that styling microformats must be compatible
with all browsers which is the only reason why you might want to
consider attribute selectors. Therefore, I don't think that browser
compatibility for attribute selectors should be a valid reason not to
use the title attribute to store the phone type.
 
 
However, as I was thinking about this during this morning, I realized
that microformats do offer an alternative, even if it isn't spelled out
as part of the hCard specification for the telephone component and that
is to use multiple classes. It is perfectly legal (and required in some
instances) to use class="fn n", this pattern could be extended to be
used as class="value work" and class="value home" etc.
 
For example:
 

Toll-free Phone: 1-800-567-7890
Toll-free Fax: 1-800-567-0987

 
The current format forces us to include "voice" or "fax" in text rather
than in the attributes. In my original case, I didn't want to include
the word "voice" in the text because in the contacts page I was/am
creating, all of the numbers were voice numbers (all of the people in
the contacts page share a single fax number so I didn't need to specify
a fax number for each and use "fax" and "voice" to distinguish them for
each person).
 
The other problem I will encounter is the fact that because my efforts
are on our government web pages (in Ontario, Canada, all government
pages must be in both English and French), I must use the French
equivalent to "voice" and "fax" in the text which means that the
microformat will be broken. However, if "voice" and "fax" were accepted
as attribute values, then I don't need to worry about the text in the
page because the attribute value would be used instead of the text.
 
Jules




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Paul
Wilkins
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Question about telephone numbers


From: "Rickards, Julian (NDM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  2.  What about using the title attribute to indicate phone type such
> as 1-234-567-8901?

That would normally be a great idea, but IE is too thick to understand
attribute selectors.
The title attribute isn't workable with microformats either, unless it
is as
the abbr tag, as that's the only element in which information is stored
from
the title attribute.

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Re: [uf-discuss] HResume question

[George Malamidis]

You're right and I totally agree with you about the value "skill"  
adds to
resume and CV data. I added an issue to the wiki suggesting that  
the hResume

"skill" might be easier to implement if the use of rel-tag was made
optional. Brian Suda has suggested that if we made it optional, and  
there is
a rel-tag, then take the tag space, if it is not present, take the  
node

value.

How important to you is rel-tag in your implementation?



rel-tag itself is not vital in the way we parse hResumes, but  
class="skill" is, as we treat individual skills as tags in the way we  
store them, analyze and display them. We have a 'popular skills' tag  
cloud and '/skill/microformats' type of URLs which link to skill  
stats and information resources.


Thanks,
George


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Re: [uf-discuss] T-shirt sales

[Thom Shannon]

Just take the logo to http://www.tshirtstudio.com/, and get yourself 
some microformat boxer shorts!


I might do that

Serdar Kiliç wrote:

On 23/06/2007, at 4:38 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:


I see that we now have T-shirts for sale, with the microformat logo:




Unfortunately it's still an all American affair:
http://www.goodstorm.com/help/shipping_and_returns

Regards,
Serdar Kiliç
http://weblog.kilic.net/




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