Re: [uf-discuss] Images not displaying during mailing list registration
On 25 February 2011 05:15, Michael Elliot wrote: > Hello, > > When registering with a mailing list, most of the images are forbidden > (e.g. http://microformats.org/images/mailman/PythonPowered.png) and > thus not displaying correctly. > Thanks Michael, I'll take a look when I get a mo'. :) - F ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Meetup to workshop/brainstorm input microformat ideas
On 22 February 2011 08:46, Glenn Jones wrote: > Hi All > > If there is a enough interested I would like to setup a UK meet-up to > workshop/brainstorm the input microformat ideas. The week of 10-17 April > looks good as Tantek is in the UK and most people are back from SXSWi. > Jeremy Keith said he would be interested. I could arrange a small event > in London or Brighton. I'd be up for that - possibly more-so if it was in London, but I'm flexible. Perhaps put together an event page for it on the wiki and get a consensus on preferences there? > What about everyone else? It's been a while since we had a UK > microformats meetup. It has been a while :D A bit of input work and a bit of a social would be nice. - F ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Microformats panel at SXSWi 2011
Our panel is in the picker: http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/5584 (I've already asked them to correct the spelling of their microformats tag :( ) Please do give it a thumbs up. Also, as I alluded to before, I really expect this to be a community panel representing us as a whole, and as such, I am more than welcome to receive your suggestions for things you want to see, don't want to see, people you've been inspired by recently, good site implementations, tricky problems etc etc. I'll do my best to co-ordinate this session as best covers what people want to see, and as always, will include Q&A time (assuming this gets into the final selection, of course, which is why your vote is important). I recommend popping ideas in as comments on the proposal so that non-mailing list readers can benefit. Thanks, Also came across this session which might be of interest to people here: http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/5613 On 21 June 2010 22:01, Frances Berriman wrote: > Hi people, > > SXSWi has horrendously early deadlines for panel proposals every year, > so despite the fact that we're only in June, I'm thinking ahead to > next March and am considering putting forward a microformat themed > panel for 2011. > > I wanted to send out an email to people to ask two things: > > 1. Does anyone have items they'd like to see in a panel discussion. > Topics of particular interest. Projects they themselves have worked > on and would consider coming to Texas to have a talk about. etc. > > As Tantek mentioned to me today, there's been loads of recent events - > such as the ever growing selection of google rich snippets appearing > in search terms - and various websites making the best use of these > (hRecipe springs to mind immediately). The topics around the future of > microformats in HTML5 and beyond and also he also mentioned RelMeAuth > (which I haven't yet investigated for myself, but am doing right now). > http://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth > > 2. Whether someone has already put forth a panel suggestion. If so > * Let me know about the topic, so I can suggest something radically different > * and/or we'll put the community behind making sure an already > submitted suggestion makes it through if featured in the panel picker > come August. > > No matter who is putting forth a proposal, I'd like to see a presence > from our community in some form next year. > > Happy to have a discussion about this here - or email me privately. > Either way - please let me know your thoughts before the 30th June, so > I have time to put together the proposal before the deadline of July > 9th. > > Thanks so much, > > Frances > > > > -- > Frances Berriman > http://fberriman.com > ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats panel at SXSWi 2011
On 22 June 2010 08:31, Mark Ng wrote: > On 21 June 2010 14:01, Frances Berriman wrote: >> 1. Does anyone have items they'd like to see in a panel discussion. >> Topics of particular interest. Projects they themselves have worked >> on and would consider coming to Texas to have a talk about. etc. > > If you end up doing something like a "microformats state of the union" > panel, as I've seen done elsewhere before, I'd be happy to be on it > and talk about hNews. > Hi Mark, Good to know. I had kind of hoped we could do something erring on the technical side, but I think it's definitely worth having an element of 'this is how it's going' about it. Frances ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Microformats panel at SXSWi 2011
Hi people, SXSWi has horrendously early deadlines for panel proposals every year, so despite the fact that we're only in June, I'm thinking ahead to next March and am considering putting forward a microformat themed panel for 2011. I wanted to send out an email to people to ask two things: 1. Does anyone have items they'd like to see in a panel discussion. Topics of particular interest. Projects they themselves have worked on and would consider coming to Texas to have a talk about. etc. As Tantek mentioned to me today, there's been loads of recent events - such as the ever growing selection of google rich snippets appearing in search terms - and various websites making the best use of these (hRecipe springs to mind immediately). The topics around the future of microformats in HTML5 and beyond and also he also mentioned RelMeAuth (which I haven't yet investigated for myself, but am doing right now). http://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth 2. Whether someone has already put forth a panel suggestion. If so * Let me know about the topic, so I can suggest something radically different * and/or we'll put the community behind making sure an already submitted suggestion makes it through if featured in the panel picker come August. No matter who is putting forth a proposal, I'd like to see a presence from our community in some form next year. Happy to have a discussion about this here - or email me privately. Either way - please let me know your thoughts before the 30th June, so I have time to put together the proposal before the deadline of July 9th. Thanks so much, Frances -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Species in BBC wildlife finder
Friend and colleague, Alistair Duggin, has just added some nice finishing touches to the BBC's Wildlife finder and added the species draft microformat to the mark-up. Would be great if those who are/have been involved with the format could take a critical look at it. He noted that he used wikipedia as a reference point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/species/Cougar -F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation
On 22 March 2010 21:35, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > I thought so, but what about: > - Rel tags - they could be used for something else - these is no way > to infer if the rel-tag is beign used in "semantic ways" or not. But in this case - rel is part of the HTML spec and should be used correctly. Can't assume any HTML is ever actually used semantically, beyond recommendation. > - Other formats that don't have namespaces, e.g. geo Generally these are the ones that pre-date the "microformats" movement. > - "Design for humans first, machines second" I'd say the name-space aids humans too. It's much easier for a developer to spot the usage in amongst their code if the names stand out amongst their other classes. > Sorry - I am just trying to get a jist of where the ideas are coming > from in these standards, not trying to\ undermine them... Of course - it's good to ask questions :) ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformat h-names contradict the process documentation
On 22 March 2010 20:38, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > I see the microformats in the upcoming drafts section all named: > hAtom, hAudio, hListing, hMedia, hNews, hProduct, hRecipe, hResume, hReview > > While in the actual documentation: > http://microformats.org/wiki/process > > one can find this philosophy: > "DO NOT start with even labeling your effort "hXYZ". This is a very > common mistake." > > What is the purpose of naming things with "h" prefixes and using all > kinds of abbreviations? (e.g. "adr" instead of "address"). > It's already on the web (hence html) - shouldn't it be clear that it's (h)tml? > > I was just wandering if anyone else ever thought about it, or am I > just being silly, or missing something? > Thanks, Good question. It's more for the benefit of parsers. It's a sort of simple name-spacing technique. Imagine trying to look for recipe microformats in HTML - the class name "recipe" may be used for all sorts of correct reasons, but a microformat parser is specifically interested in the instance where it's going to retrieve the right kind of data. Looking for "hRecipe" is much easier. Of course, you can infer whether the data is useful from it's child elements, but it's a quicker solution in many cases (and isn't the universal solution). I think the comment you quoted is a slightly different topic - It's just advice that step 1. of defining a new microformat is not naming it :) ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Medical domain microformats
On 22 March 2010 14:29, Andriy Drozdyuk wrote: > Have anyone heard anything about medical microformat standards? > In particular anything in anatomy or radiology fields? > No, not either that I've seen. The closest is the species work. Are either of those fields regularly published on the web in somewhat standardised ways? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] What does the 'h' in microformats mean?
2009/7/9 Thomas Loertsch : > > > > On 09.07.09 10:15, "Martin McEvoy" wrote: > >> Hello all >> >> I wander if anyone can tell me what the 'h' in microformats means? >> I have always thought 'h' was for 'hypertext' but could it mean >> 'hypermedia' or even 'html' >> >> perhaps it means nothing? > > > my guess: it stands for that certain greek letter that's hard to describe > because it's not on the average keyboard, pronounced "mü" or "miu", common > shortcut for "micro". that letter, vertically reflected, looks like an "h". > > > just a guess, but convincing enough that i stopped bothering :-) > thomas "h" stands for whatever you want it to be! *airy fairy disney movie*. It's html. Think, this is this thing, represented in html. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Google announces Microformats/RDFa support!
Ah, thanks Manu. Glad it's gone into their FAQ so quickly. Very exciting news. I concur with the congrats to all the people who have put in hard work. :) Worth mentioning that we may see a sudden influx of people to the site, IRC and wiki - so those of us that have been here for a while should be keen to lend a hand and point new comers in the right direction. -Frances 2009/5/12 Manu Sporny : > The subject line says it all - Google just announced support for various > Microformats and RDFa! > > Here's the Google FAQ page on structured data: > http://google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=99170 > > Here's the announcement on the RDFa mailing list: > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa/2009May/0011.html > > Congrats to everyone in the community and everyone that has helped > create a Microformat! > > -- manu > > -- > Manu Sporny > President/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. > blog: A Collaborative Distribution Model for Music > http://blog.digitalbazaar.com/2009/04/04/collaborative-music-model/ > > ___ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Wiki 2.0 is alive!
It looks great, Ben :) A vast improvement. Thanks for the hard work! F 2008/11/17 Ben Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi everyone, > > As promised, the wiki had some downtime this evening as I ran a fairly large > upgrade of MediaWiki and the design of the microformats wiki. > > It's been quite a long time coming, and a lot of work, but I hope people > appreciate the improvement. > > The new features of the wiki are documented on the wiki itself[1], along > with an issues page[2]. You can also get a drive-by idea of what kind of > improvements I've made by visiting the frontpage[3], the hCard page[4] and > the hAtom page[5]. > > Feedback is welcome as always, either here, on the aforementioned issues > page or on the associated blog entry[6]. > > 1. http://microformats.org/wiki/wiki-2 > 2. http://microformats.org/wiki/wiki-2-issues > 3. http://microformats.org/wiki/ > 4. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard > 5. http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom > 6. http://microformats.org/blog/2008/11/17/wiki/ > > Thanks for your patience with the upgrade. > > Ben > ___ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hcard: additional additional names
2008/8/21 Michael Smethurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:1895/people/16 > Michael actually means: http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:2840/ -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] HTML 5 data- attributes
On 16/07/2008, André Luís <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree this is a nice solution to solve, for example, the > accessibility problems with the datetime pattern. But not for the > entire set of properties.. it "darkens" the data, makes the author > repeat information, etc... > > For the abbr-based design patterns, I totally agree. For the rest, not so > much. > > A good compromise, IMHO, that has already been sugested here, would be > to port these attributes to classnames (data-*). > > Custom DTDs for HTML, adding new namespaces to XHTML... I believe this > is a whole new path for microformats that needs to be assessed whether > we actually _need_ to go. Well, as of *now* it's not about "need" so much as "want". Custom DTDs and new namespaces etc. just aren't in the realm of what microformats are doing, or should be doing, at the moment. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] The BBC case and HTML5
On 30/06/2008, Henri Sivonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 29, 2008, at 15:18, Frances Berriman wrote: > > > > The BBC can't use HTML5. It won't validate, > > Sorry - I should have qualified - I meant with their current doctype. > HTML5 validates (in the present tense) at http://html5.validator.nu/ > > Moreover, if validation causes you to emit user experience-degrading markup > in violation if the intended language semantics*, validation isn't helping > but hurting you. > > (* Let's be honest: abbr wasn't designed to expand "one hour ago" to an ISO > date with a crufty "T" separator and time zone designators and all.) > > > > it doesn't adhere to their standards and guidelines or > > > > If they are willing to consider amending their guidelines to allow RDFa, > which is also invalid HTML 4.01/XHTML 1.0/XHTML 1.1, surely they *could* > choose to amend their own guidelines to allow . > Consider.. but hasn't happened yet :) Yes, though, I agree in principle - It's never a never! > > > A core principle of microformats is that they should work with the > > technologies available and in use *now* (HTML5 isn't widely supported > > and isn't even a w3c recommendation yet). > > > > Wouldn't it make sense, though, to specify that be supported as an > alternative to in hCalendar datetimes, so that when the community > becomes comfortable with publishing HTML5 content, the installed base of > parsers would already be there Kind of. HTML5 will afford us lots of opportunities to improve and lighten up microformats (microformats lite?) but I think that comes under a different piece of work. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] The BBC case and HTML5
2008/6/29 Henri Sivonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I looked at > http://microformats.org/wiki/assistive-technology-abbr-results#Invalid_HTML4 , > and I found that HTML5 isn't listed even as having been considered > and rejected. > > HTML5 includes pretty much exactly to make it unnecessary to use the > abbr design pattern for datetimes. Are there any plans to upgrade the POSH > principle to treat valid HTML5 as an acceptable basis for microformats? > The BBC can't use HTML5. It won't validate, it doesn't adhere to their standards and guidelines or their browser support levels. It simply isn't an option for them (and many other companies). A core principle of microformats is that they should work with the technologies available and in use *now* (HTML5 isn't widely supported and isn't even a w3c recommendation yet). -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and RDFa not as far apart as previously thought
On 24/06/2008, Manu Sporny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey Manu, Thanks for the links. I'm trying to keep track of all the converastions popping up around this. > > Some are moving too quickly to dismiss both Microformats AND RDFa - the > two communities are cross-pollinating and there has been significant > lessons learned from both approaches. If you're going to blog about this > or discuss it - please don't fuel the Microformats vs. RDFa fire by > picking sides... it's detrimental to both communities. Agreed. I'm so tired of this verses debate. This isn't a war where anyone has to pick a side. They can work along side one another. > Like Edd stated in his post, we have a bug that we need to fix (abbr > design pattern causing screen reader usability issues) and that has been > hanging over our heads for some time now. BBC's decision is a lesson > learned but is in no way some sort of sign that Microformats is on it's > way out. I don't know if you saw, but the discussion is happening over on dev [1] (mostly to get parser writer's feedback in the first instance) on how to deal with the abbr. There's been work by Ben Ward on the machine-data[2] options for a while now. I agree, this is just *one* issue that we've failed to solve so far. [1] http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-dev/2008-June/000552.html [2] http://microformats.org/wiki/machine-data -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] http://microformats.org/get-started/
2008/6/21 Toby A Inkster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > It would be nice if http://microformats.org/get-started/ mentioned adding a > profile URI. > > See: > http://microformats.org/wiki/faqs-for-rdf#Isn.27t_this_just_scraping.3F > http://microformats.org/wiki/profile-uris > As an additional "things you might like to do next.." point? Can do.. My aim with this section was to try and keep it fairly light and simple in the first instance, rather tan overload it. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Request for help from screen reader users from the BBC
On 22/05/2008, Alasdair King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There has been some testing, that will hopefully be published soon, > > but it's not definitive (since there's not much data on how most SR > > users have their setups). That's all :) > > > Sorry, I meant of course "I infer that they've tested the default > settings of the screenreaders..." > > Ah - sorry. My mistake too :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Request for help from screen reader users from the BBC
On 22/05/2008, Alasdair King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I cant see why we cant accept the hAccessibility[2] solution and be done > >> with it and just use a , I believe most screen readers are not set > >> up to read out loud the @title on a span by default. > > > > Has anyone tested this in various screen readers? If not, on what basis > > would we accept it? > > > >From the BBC page linked: > "We've looked at quite a few screen readers out of the box and by > default they don't expand abbreviation elements so the user still > hears 19:30 not 2008-05-15T19:30:00+01:00." > > I infer that they've tested the screenreaders, they're just worried > there are lots of blind people who have turned on ABBR, and the BBC is > a big, sensitive target. I know blind people are more annoyed about > the lack of audio descriptions in iPlayer, but there'll be some > uber-geek screenreader user in a well-off advocacy group who'll > complain. There has been some testing, that will hopefully be published soon, but it's not definitive (since there's not much data on how most SR users have their setups). That's all :) > People who have problems will be the subset of users who (use a > screenreader) AND (have a screenreader that supports ABBR) AND (have > turned on abbreviation elements) AND (come across hCalendar ABBR > elements) AND (find this one thing the biggest headache in using the > site.) Why not just offer to buy both those people a beer to make up? Beer solves a lot, but unfortunately, it's not that viable this time. > I'll mail my screenreader-using friends and ask them to respond anyway. Fantastic :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Request for help from screen reader users from the BBC
On 21/05/2008, Martin McEvoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Have you tried something like this: > > > 19:30 > Hi Martin, It's not so much about "what to try" as the BBC using the hCalendar on a new, very large site and not wanting to use a format that is either likely to change (if the abbr pattern is changed/dropped) or causes accessibility issues. They just want to help push through the current discussion with some real data. Hopefully, this issue can be resolved *very soon* - I'd hate to see /programmes have to drop their microformat implementation because of one, relatively small, aspect of one format. Thanks, though! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Request for help from screen reader users from the BBC
Hi everyone, I realise I mentioned this URL in the last thread I was active on, but I wanted to bring this to the attention to anyone not following that thread. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/05/microformats_and_accessibility.shtml The BBC is trialling microformats in the new programme support pages and are in need of lots of test data and research in order to a) help us make a more informed decision about the use of abbr design pattern in hCalendar here in the community, and b) for them to decide whether to use hCalendar at all (eek!). Please take a read if you are a screen reader user, or know some one who is. Thanks very much, Frances -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: One more shot at accessible hCalendar
On 17/05/2008, Jim O'Donnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 17 May 2008, at 23:14, Adam Craven - Four Shapes wrote: > > > > I'm wondering, can you also configure screen readers to expand out titles > on any elements? > > > > > Not as far as I'm aware. Titles may be read out for links, images, form > elements and abbreviations and that's about it. I definitely remember Steve > Faulkner saying that he's not aware of any AT that will read title on a > span. > As an aside to this - the BBC have put out a call for testers/information and we also have some internal testing (and results) that we hope to publish soon from testing on the new /programmes pages (containing hCal). http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/05/microformats_and_accessibility.shtml -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] HTML 5, rev and votelinks
On 25/01/2008, Mark Ng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On spending some time looking at the absent attributes section in the > html 5 differences document ( > http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-html5-diff-20080122/#absent-attributes ), > I've noticed that rev is absent from the html 5 spec. How does this > affect usage of this attribute in vote-links ? Hi Mark I think various people have been aware of rev being non-existent in HTML5 for a while. It's not really cause for concern for a couple of reasons. Firstly, microformats in some cases will only be an interim solution until something better comes along that does some of the things that microformats do better (HTML5 may well be one of those things). We shouldn't therefore necessarily look at changing any formats *now* to suit a spec that doesn't actually exist yet and may not for quite some time. Microformats have to work for what we've actually got in the present. As for the actual VoteLinks - I wonder if when it comes down to it, it would be good and interesting to see how much usage they're actually getting. Rev is notoriously under-used and generally misunderstood (I for one constantly swap the definitions of rev and rel and have to double check each time). F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Initial hAtom support in Spinn3r 2.1
On 09/01/2008, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You might like to add spinn3r to the hAtom examples: > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Examples_in_the_wild > Apologies - I see you added it to the top of the list (for some reason I expected it at the bottom). Blind sometimes. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Initial hAtom support in Spinn3r 2.1
On 09/01/2008, Kevin Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey guys, > > Thought this would be of interest: > > http://blog.spinn3r.com/2008/01/announcing-spin.html > Hi Kevin - thanks for letting us know. That's good news. You might like to add spinn3r to the hAtom examples: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Examples_in_the_wild -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] XFN syntax question
On 14/12/2007, Ciaran McNulty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 14, 2007 10:14 AM, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've just installed a new blogging platform, the blogroll supports XFN > > out of the box which is nice. I just noticed in the source it's writing > > it like this rel="contact;friend ;met;co-worker" > > > > There's no mention of using ; as a seperator in the XFN specs. I just > > wanted to check I wasn't missing anything. > > XFN just mentions using multiple rel values for complex relationships, > and rel values are space-separated so I don't think that is valid XFN. The HTML spec also explicitly states that rel values should be space separated. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] CSS archive
On 14/12/2007, Joshua Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First time here. Hope this is on-topic! Sorry if it is not :-) > > ##Short version > > I was thinking that it would be nice to have a page on the Wiki that > collects CSS templates for creating and displaying microformats. Hi. Well, just to throw an alternative view on this - I might be concerned that supplying CSS templates for microformats might lead people to believe that microformats *must* be written in a very specific way/order. I think you could do this, but with the clear explanation that the mark-up that goes with the CSS (since you'd have to make certain assumptions*) is simply a suggested way of marking up that piece of information. Pitching it more in a way of "these are some ready to go snippets and styles to get you started". Does that make sense? (* ... to make anything particularly pretty for a more complex example like hReview - I guess stuff like making XFN links look a certain way would be easier) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] XFN syntax question
On 14/12/2007, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've just installed a new blogging platform, the blogroll supports XFN > out of the box which is nice. I just noticed in the source it's writing > it like this rel="contact;friend ;met;co-worker" > > There's no mention of using ; as a seperator in the XFN specs. I just > wanted to check I wasn't missing anything. You're right. It oughta be space seperated. Which blogging platform is doing it that way? -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] using namespace
On 23/11/2007, Tatsuya Noyori <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to suggest that microformats use namespace like the > following example. > > http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; > xmlns:mf="http://microformats.org/2007";> > http://microformats.org/2007/hcard.rng";> >home >+1.415.555.1212 > > > > This example is just using @mf:scheme and @mf:term instead of > @xhtml:class or @xhtml:rel. > > Therefore, this example is human readable and machine readable. And, by using > namespace and a link to schema(@mf:scheme), This example is able to be > valid by using validator and > schema(http://microformats.org/2007/hcard.rnc). > > I think microformats need namespace to ensure interoperability. > > How do you think about the suggestion? You might like to take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/namespaces for some of the reasons why we discourage their usage. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] split full names
On 04/10/2007, Nick Fitzsimons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4 Oct 2007, at 10:31, Thom Shannon wrote: > > > This isn't strictly microformats related but I thought a few people > > on here might have some advice. Is there an accepted reliable way > > of dividing a full name into given name and family name? > > > > Actually I'm sure the short answer is no, but is there a least evil > > way? > > Depends on which cultures you're expecting to encounter: > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name> > > FWIW the majority of people in the world are named with their family > name *before* their given name, assuming that their culture's naming > convention includes those components in the first place... > The biggest problem, IIRC, is non-hyphenated double first names, like Mary Jane Smith or something, where "Mary Jane" is the full first name. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Hatom question
On 10/09/2007, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/10/07, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Aye - it's that slip of the tongue which seems all too common when > > discussing posting dates that causes the confusion, in my opinion. > > Published and updated tend to be rather interchangeable terms for > > authors. > > > > As for the inconsistency - I'm not sure to be honest. I assume it's > > an over-sight on the contributors part. If no one has any clear > > reason why it should say one thing in one place, and another somewhere > > else, then I'd advise it to be clarified to match our conversation > > here. > > I'm not sure what you're saying about the honest part. > > Atom entries MUST have "updated" [1]. Many blogging tools (blogger, > for example) only provide "published" and most templates we have seen > only use "published". Thus this is the way we get the hAtom rules. > > If there's an inconsistency in the hAtom spec, please point it out and > I'll work on correcting it. > > Regards, etc... > > [1] http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/#requiredEntryElements > There is... reffering back to Michaels original post.. http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Schema says "updated. required using datetime-design-pattern." whereas http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Updated says "an Entry SHOULD have an Entry Updated element" The first suggests a must and the second a should. It's just a bit confusing, so any help to iron that out would be fabulous. :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Hatom question
On 10/09/2007, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/10/07, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > As Frances mentions, most people just use "updated", but if your > > underlying CMS knows the difference between the publish date and the > > updated date and you want to expose this information, you'd be best to > > use both. > > Whoops, Frances said "published". The main thing is _one_ of them is Aye - it's that slip of the tongue which seems all too common when discussing posting dates that causes the confusion, in my opinion. Published and updated tend to be rather interchangeable terms for authors. As for the inconsistency - I'm not sure to be honest. I assume it's an over-sight on the contributors part. If no one has any clear reason why it should say one thing in one place, and another somewhere else, then I'd advise it to be clarified to match our conversation here. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Hatom question
On 10/09/2007, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/09/2007, Michael Smethurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just a quick question to ask whether hatom requires an updated? > > > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Schema > > > > says it is > > > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Updated > > > > Says it's a should and parsers will fall back to published date > > > > Yeah, that's right. I've found that many people tend to just use > published though (myself included), and forego ever using updated. > > What're you having problems with? Apologies for the reply to myself, but I just spotted what you mean... the schema refers to published as a MUST and the specific information as a SHOULD, yeah? I'd treat updated as a SHOULD. It's the date in general (published or updated) that should be described as the MUST, as far as I'm aware. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Hatom question
On 10/09/2007, Michael Smethurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a quick question to ask whether hatom requires an updated? > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Schema > > says it is > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Updated > > Says it's a should and parsers will fall back to published date > Yeah, that's right. I've found that many people tend to just use published though (myself included), and forego ever using updated. What're you having problems with? -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] sites consuming microformats
On 29/08/2007, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there a list anywhere of sites that are making use of microformats in > interesting ways? > > Obviously lots of people are publishing them because its so easy to do, > but I've not come across many places really taking advantage of them. > > There's technorati and pingerati of course, and dopplr lets you add > friends by entering a url with XFN on it. > > Any more? Implementations [1] is always a good place to start. [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] XGN & Grou.ps
On 24/08/07, emre sokullu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm Emre Sokullu from Grou.ps (also Read/WriteWeb and hakia.com) > > First of all, I want to announce you the **early** adoption of XFN and > hCard standards on our site - check out > http://readwriteweb.grou.ps/people/ricmac as an example - We have more > than 60,000 members an 7,000 groups, so I hope this is gonna be a good > example case for XFN especially. We were already supporting OpenID and > are willing to embrace all standards and semantic properties. > > Anyway, my main point is the following: while playing with XFN, I've > seen that XFN is very individual centric, it defines relations of a > person with others. Why not making something similar for Groups and > evaluate relations from the group perspective - like rel="admin" > rel="new active" etc etc... I think the difficulty with attribute values like that is they're really context sensitive. So what's an "admin" on one site is something else on another - they're very tricky to define globally. I think there's a need for studying in general if the existing XFN attributes *are* enough (but perhaps aren't being utilised in the right way or to their full potential - finding out how it is that people are using them to date), and if not, what do sites in general require. There's been discussions in the past about some of the existing attributes not being especially well, or clearly, defined so that as an exercise alone may be beneficial as a first step. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] inappropriate behaviour (was: Discussion of public domain declaration template usage)
On 02/08/07, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This was just a politeness on my behalf, as I spoke not as an > individual but for those listed on the governance section[1] of the > wiki, who are refered to as the administration. I was under the > impression that that would be clear enough for you. My mistake. The word used is indeed "administrators", but it only needs a little bit of common sense applied. I'll be sure not to use "administration" in future. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] inappropriate behaviour (was: Discussion of public domain declaration template usage)
On 01/08/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>
> >>Frankly Andy, due to your use of the {{subst}} method, you have now added
> >>additional time cost to determining if any page *you* edit in particular is
> >>consistently in the public domain or not with respect to all other public
> >>domain contributors.
> >
> >Frankly, Tantek, that's bullshit.
>
> I have just received an e-mail, from Frances Berriman, subject "Warning
> of inappropriate behaviour on mf-discuss", citing the above exchange of
> 26 July, in:
>
>
> <http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-July/010261.html>
>
> and telling me that:
>
> Such an outburst (sic) requires (sic) a warning that if you
> cannot contribute with respect and in an appropriate tone on the
> mailing list, you will receive a cooling off ban.
>
> Perhaps Ms Berriman isn't familiar with British English vernacular
> (which would be odd, I understand she lives here), but "Rubbish,
> nonsense" is in the Oxford English Dictionary, and means "rubbish,
> nonsense". In any case, that was no "outburst"; but a considered and apt
> description of the comment to which I was responding; and I stand by it.
If you'd like to correct my typos, please do, but the discuss mailing
list isn't the venue to do so.
If you feel that your response wasn't out of order, okay - feel free
to say so or clarify your intent off list.
> Ironically, Ms Berriman also implies that I'm a - quote - "jerk". The
> OED tells me that that insult refers to "Someone of little or no
> account; a fool, a stupid person". Perhaps she ought to put her own
> house in order.
Out of context. I simple quoted the statement from the "be nice"
guidelines, as below:
"
Per the mailing-lists guideline "be nice":
http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#Be_nice
"The admins may take swift action to ban or moderate individuals who
essentially are "jerks" on the list."
"
> Also of interest is the fact that Ms Berriman signs her post "on behalf
> of the microformats administration". I can find no reference to such an
> organisation on the wiki or mailing list. Maybe I've missed something?
This was just a politeness on my behalf, as I spoke not as an
individual but for those listed on the governance section[1] of the
wiki, who are refered to as the administration. I was under the
impression that that would be clear enough for you.
I also specifically said that you may email me if you've got any
questions. I'm always more than happy to clarify things, or if you
genuinely felt that you weren't in the wrong, that is up for
discussion too. Holding such conversations on the discuss list isn't
appropriate or helpful though.
If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like to discuss this
further, please email me off list.
[1]http://microformats.org/wiki/governance
--
Frances Berriman
http://fberriman.com
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discuss@microformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] making img machine-readable
On 12/07/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, July 12, 2007 10:37, Frances Berriman wrote: > On 12/07/07, David Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Guillaume Lebleu wrote: >>> What would be the suggested best practice to make this human-readable >>> content machine-readable as well? >> >> Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the 'alt' attribute >> precisely what you're looking for? > > I'm inclined to agree with this for in page images. @alt should carry > all the descriptive information needed for the machine (or other > usergroups) needed. That rather depends on what you mean by "descriptive information". The alt attribute should carry the *text alternative* for the *meaning* of the image. So "available" might be correct, but "green ball" is not. Neither is keyword-stuffing. Sure - I agree. I was assuming what Guillaume was getting at was wanting to say that an image on a page that is there as a green light to say, for example, an order has been accepted, which should also have a machine readable alternative, so therefore it seems acceptable to me to use the @alt with the content of "Order accepted", perhaps. That would make sense read out still. A useful rule of thumb is to read the page out loud, as though you are doing so to someone, via a telephone. What would you say, when you came to such an image? Definitely. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] making img machine-readable
On 12/07/07, David Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Guillaume Lebleu wrote: > Let's say a web page uses an image such as a checkmark or green/red > light to represent a boolean, for instance the availability/status of a > product or a program. > > What would be the suggested best practice to make this human-readable > content machine-readable as well? Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the 'alt' attribute precisely what you're looking for? I'm inclined to agree with this for in page images. @alt should carry all the descriptive information needed for the machine (or other usergroups) needed. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] definitive hCard on a page
On 04/07/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On 04/07/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> What would be the way to markup a hCard as being the definitive hCard on >> a page. For example the page owner or author. My blog has hCards of >> friends and commenters, as well as my own. But I'd like a programmatic >> way to identify mine, mainly to access information about me at my openid. > >The element is for signifying the page author. This'd >probably suit what you're looking for ( etc.). That's fine when the primary subject of the page is it's author. Imagine, though, a biography of Paul McCartney. It might mention that he was in a popular music ensemble with John Lennon, Ringo Star and George Harrison, produced by George Martin, and was married to Linda McCartney and someone else, and had children called Stella, Mary and so on. The page's author might be, say, Hunter Davies. Each of these people might have an hCard - but how do we indicate that Paul McCartney's hCard is the primary one for the page? A primary hCard wouldn't be the same as the author of the page. That's a different problem. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] definitive hCard on a page
On 04/07/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What would be the way to markup a hCard as being the definitive hCard on a page. For example the page owner or author. My blog has hCards of friends and commenters, as well as my own. But I'd like a programmatic way to identify mine, mainly to access information about me at my openid. The element is for signifying the page author. This'd probably suit what you're looking for ( etc.). -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
On 28/06/07, Jon Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Frances Berriman wrote: > [...] As is the microformats > principle, perhaps we should see what turns up naturally in the wild > as the way people describe such pages and go with that as a guide. Maybe this is over simplistic but my mum understands "download". Agreed. My mother doesn't often use (or even understand) terms like semantic or meta-data or even extraction. Download she gets. She knows it means she's taking something from a webpage and putting it somewhere else. Simple. How that's done she couldn't give a monkies about and, frankly, should never HAVE to know. That seems to me to be the most natural and ubiquitous term understood in the wild by all people today. The option for a person to download and add a specific event, set of contact details etc. from a uF enabled page would seem to be an optimal outcome. Fundamentally, users are downloading that data first, then adding it to an application -- usually requiring an extra step to confirm that action in a dialogue box. Seeing the uF or downloads icon then a list of available uF "downloads" to cherry pick from would also be easily understood and used. Agreed. And no "re-branding" or user safe naming had to be done. Why invent problems that don't currently exist for users who want to consume microformatted data? Those who want to create pages with microformats and therefore your "smart pages" are more-or-less two kinds of people - simple publishers (like my dad and his blog, for example) or actual web developers like ourselves. The first kind of people don't want to (and shouldn't have to) touch the mark-up so their publishing tools should be doing it for them and the second kind ought to be able to cope with the term "microformats" to describe what they are doing. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
On 28/06/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Exactly! We need a brand and a website that introduces people to the concept, tells them where to get the plugins or the right browsers and possibly encourages them to put pressure on their web guys to implement them, "Want x's on your site? Then use Microformats" I think better encouragement would come from putting energy into creating tools, plug-ins, examples and tutorials for those people - rather than trying to re-brand something that's already something else re-branded. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
On 28/06/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alex Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >this description would finish the sentence "features of Firefox 3 >include support for offline Web applications, private browsing, >blocking malware, and __[user facing way of saying microformat >detection]__" > >...data detection? >...semantic browsing? >...data browsing? >...semantic data detection? >...semantic data browsing? >...semantic data navigating? "data extraction" Though it strikes me as odd that we expend efforts trying to raise "brand awareness" for microformats, then start top discuss renaming them... We should think long and hard about whether that's a good idea. Agreed. I'd prefer the approach of seeing what people who aren't us want to do with them and call them, first. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
On 28/06/07, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 6/28/07, Alex Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Right, we need a general user facing way of describing microformat > detection, in order to describe the various applications (like Web > browsers, feed readers and extensions like Operator) that let the > user take actions on microformatted content. For instance, this > description would finish the sentence "features of Firefox 3 include > support for offline Web applications, private browsing, blocking > malware, and __[user facing way of saying microformat detection]__" > > ...data detection? > ...semantic browsing? > ...data browsing? > ...semantic data detection? > ...semantic data browsing? > ...semantic data navigating? > > If Operator and Firefox 3 are in a category of uF enabled > applications, what should that category of applications be called? > Or another way of putting it: > > Feed Readers :: RSS > __ :: microformats > Live Data [1]? Already used... Wired Web Wire Page? Dynamic Pages? Dynamic Data? Smart Page (not bad, riffing off Smart Tags) Applications add "Reader" (like Feed Reader) or "Processor" (like Word Processor) or "Importer" (like address book, and actually describes what is happening) or "Appliance" Hmmm ... Smart Page Reader ... Personally, Smart Page and Reader bothers me the least. How did the term "Feed Reader" turn up? As is the microformats principle, perhaps we should see what turns up naturally in the wild as the way people describe such pages and go with that as a guide. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
On 28/06/07, Pelle W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 6/27/07, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering >> how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is. >> >> I've thought about this before...I can see the specific microformats, >> like hCard and hCal and hReview being public facing...and, in reality, >> these are pretty descriptive. Maybe they just need some sort of iconic >> marker (like RSS has)...which I think has been attempted before. I agree with Tara here. Microformats is interesting for developers because it tells us in what way the solution works but for my mum it would tell nothing. My mom knows however what an address is and what a calendar is and because of that it's the microformats in itself that should be given common names like "web feeds" for RSS. I don't know but have XML been given a humane name yet? Because XML is to RSS what Microformats is to hCard. I concur on this line of thinking. Microformats are the technological name - my mum should never have to come across the term any more than she should have to come across the term XML. I think Operator does a good job of hiding the term in that it simply shows what you can actually do with data in the page (add this to my google calendar etc.). Therefore, uFs don't need a user-facing name - their applications do. If Microformats should be given a more humane name then that would be something about semantics. Semanticdata perhaps - but it wouldn't make anyone happier I think because the only ones who would be interested would be those who already knows what Microformats is. >> As far as talking about Microformats under one banner, I don't know if >> the distinction really needs to be made. i think that may be what POSH >> was trying to say: use plain old semantic html...but even that is >> talking to developers and advanced content producers. I've said it before, but I don't think there's any need to reiterate what semantic HTML for is via *another* name, for developers. POSH is bad enough. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Wiki vandalism: species-brainstorming
On 27/06/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: <http://microformats.org/wiki/species-brainstorming> has been vandalised, such that it cannot be edited or read. I went back to the previous version and was able to edit this version, and therefore save it as current. Can you take a look and see if it's correct to you now? -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Regarding POSH and misuse of the microformats logo
On 07/05/07, Keith Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ideally perhaps, but as we all know (and this is the reason this discussion is taking place), most HTML on the web contains significant amounts of presentational markup. Presentational elements are still in the html 4 spec. Many tools produce presentational html. So if you just have tutorials on 'HTML' almost all your target audience will think "I already know html", and skip it. But if you talk about "Semantic HTML", novices may be curious, and the more expert will probably still be interested. Okay, yeah, that's fair. I think there should be an emphasis on teaching good semantic practices - which is ultimately what we all want - it's just how we go about that that differs in opinion. :) I'm of the opinion that "Semantic HTML" is a perfectly fine term for Semantic HTML, and I'm a little sceptical of the utility of a new acronym for it. If there's a problem with people still not understanding semantic html, either the arguments for it aren't being made clear enough and loud enough, or maybe the arguments simply don't chime with html authors ' perceptions of what they are doing. Agreed (but lets not call it SHTML or POSH, or anything other than "Semantic HTML" :) ). There's no harm in drumming in the semantic part as being of great importance by explicitely stating it in that way. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Regarding POSH and misuse of the microformats logo
On 07/05/07, Ara Pehlivanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 5/7/07, Charles Iliya Krempeaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > If you really have to make up a new name... then how about... SHTML. > (Short for "Semantic HTML".) > > (It's similar in vein to XHTML.) > > > SHTML is... Simple, to the point, and sexy :-) Not sexy. HTML should be semantic all the time. There shouldn't be another category of HTML that is, and one that isn't. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Regarding POSH and misuse of the microformats logo
On 07/05/07, Christian Heilmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you really have to make up a new name... then how about... SHTML. > (Short for "Semantic HTML".) .shtml files exist. We don't need a new name for semantically valuable HTML, we need good tutorials explaining them. The only good HTML resource I can name when people ask me is Patrick's HTML Dog. I completely concur. I do not understand why HTML needs rebranding at all! My stand-point is similar. HTML Dog is a brilliant resource, and I suspect we should be thinking about developing resources like this to prime for microformats. "POSH" isn't going to do that, in my mind. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Regarding POSH and misuse of the microformats logo
On 06/05/07, Patrick Griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Absolutely - I see a very important need for the microformats community to ensure basic semantic practices are understood. I'm just not This is kind of why I have a problem with the "POSH" thing. Yeah, it's meant to be a bit of a joke (and plenty of people are laughing) - but for those people that would actually benefit from improving their knowledge of HTML and semantics - seeing another acronym with unknown origins thrown around isn't necessarily going to make them learn any more! From experience, an unknown buzzwordy acronym tends to have more of the effect of scaring off people or confusing them, or worse that the concept it's describing is just another fad! I mean, "microformats" alone seems like a pretty scary term in the first place (which I think is one of the reasons a lot of newcomers think microformats must be a difficult and highly complex technology). C'mon - our founding principle is meant to be to use the lowest barrier to entry! Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying we should scrap the name "microformats" too, but I do think we should be making learning about them, and semantic practices, as simple and straight-forward as possible with minimal use of too many technical terms and random acronyms. *apologies if I'm starting to a little off-topic. :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Regarding POSH and misuse of the microformats logo
On 03/05/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If it is intended to be separate form microformats, then having so much about it on the microformat 'wiki' is somewhat misleading. I must admit that I have some qualms about having it on the microformats wiki also - if it's a term designed to disambiguate, it's highly confusing for it to stem from microformats (even if though they are "POSH") and probably a bit counter-intuitive! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Geo Elevation Data
On 20/03/07, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mar 20, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Alexander Graf wrote: > On 20.03.2007, at 14:25, Scott Reynen wrote: > >> Per the process, please document a wide variety of such examples >> in the wiki > > http://www.waypoint.org/gps2-list210.html > http://gpsnepal.com/waypoint.php?trek=everest (or any other treks) > http://www.way-points.nl/waypoints/rubriek.asp?cat=2&type=rubriek > http://members.aol.com/gpspage/waypoints.html > > just as an example... I'm sure I'll find more... Good. Now you (or anyone else interested in this) should put those in the wiki where they can be more easily found and analyzed by others. As a demonstration, I started a page for this, based on the examples template: http://microformats.org/wiki/geo-elevation-examples I have no personal experience working with elevation data, so if I've mis-stated the problem you're trying to solve, please correct on that page. Can I also mention that this thread would be best suited to the microformats-new mailing list? [1] The idea is to keep creation noise on this list to a minimum. Thank you, [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#microformats-new -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hrecipe prototype
On 05/03/07, Ted Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi All I created a mockup of a Yahoo! Food page with a prototype of an hrecipe format for last quarter's Yahoo Hack Day. Is there a group working on the hrecipe microformat? I'd like to pass the coding on to the group for consideration. Hey Ted, I assume you've seen the recipe work on the wiki[1]? The appropriate step to interact with interested parties would probably be to look over that, add your relevant information to the wiki pages (like your examples) and if you want to discuss it with people, send something up to the microformats-new mailing list[2], rather than this -discuss list. F [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe-examples [2]http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-list#microformats-new -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Definition of Microformats
On 28/02/07, Angus McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To expand briefly on (b) above, imagine a naive developer who has heard about the wonderful new microformat hThing. They find a Thing marked with the class="hThing", open it up in a text editor and say "Ah, so that's how it's done.". They then reproduce the structure in their documents. Unknown to them, the page was drawn up by an early adopter using their notion of what hThing might later turn out to be. When ThingBot, the Thing Crawler (tm) totally ignores Mr/Ms Naive Developer's page, s/he will be frustrated. "But I used hThing!" "They should have read the spec", you say. In an ideal world, they would, but in a less-than-ideal world, there's still an interest in trying to encourage as many examples of good practice as possible, for the benefit of those who don't read specs (and - by extension - for the benefit of everyone who stands to profit from use of microformats, which is all of us). Just as a slight aside - this tends to be what happens anyway. Even when learning and writing simple HTML, most people do that by looking at examples in the wild. There's only a small percentage of people using (X)HTML 1.0, for example, that ever read the spec cover to cover. Most later discover their problems with validation and use error messages to point them in the right direction. So I think my vague point is that people will learn from examples anyway - whether they be based on good examples, out-dated examples, or simply wrong/incorrectly implemented examples of current microformats specifications. There's a certain degree of education that'll have to happen with adoption. Having said that - yes, I do agree that we should encourage as many accurate implementations as possible, of course! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Introduction; music microformat
On 26/02/07, Marian Steinbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello everybody! Hi Marian! Welcome to the -discuss. I just joined the list because I am interested in the development of (a) "music" microformats. Can I take this opportunity, before this thread gets a bit meaty, to redirect this discussion to the microformats-new list, which is specifically for the exploration and discussion of new microformats: http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#microformats-new -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Multimedia captions microformat?
On 20/02/07, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm also to understand that the mailing list microformats-new is for discussing new microformats, though damned if I can remember ever getting any mail from there (?) That's correct [1]. The list is up and running (I'm receiving discussions from there). If you're having problems receiving emails - double check the address you're signed up with, perhaps[2]? But yes, this discussion should continue on that list. :) Thanks! [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#microformats-new [2]http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-new/ -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Book microformat examples - published books or "web-first" books?
On 10/02/07, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I added two examples to the book-examples page[1], then I wondered: Is the books microformat focused mainly on books that have been published in print first, then published on the web? Or is the books microformat open to including books published on the web first, then published in print? It ought to be either. Since you're in the stage of the process specifically dealing with collecting examples, you should be collecting both kinds that ultimately end up being published and consumed on the web. I don't think the original source of the book matters as long as it ultimately has been published, digitally and in full, on the web. So, I see no problems... unless I'm missing a trick. Also - can we move this discussion over to the -new mailing list [1][2] (rending this thread on -discuss closed). I've already included this reply onto it. Thanks! For -new - Original thread began here: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-February/008671.html [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#microformats-new [2]http://microformats.org/discuss/ -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Football
On 14/02/07, Danilo Medeiros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I´m still finding my way around, so any ideas on next steps would be appreciated. I think we should move this discussion over to the -new mailing list so we can explore all of this a bit more (therefore closing this thread on this list). If you're not already subscribed, you can find out more here: http://microformats.org/discuss/#new Thanks, -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Football
On 13/02/07, Danilo Medeiros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... interesting to use hcard for player information. I find the hcard microformat closely tied to the semantic concept of "contacts" rather than "persons", if you will. When I think about what information should be presented about a player it is clear to me that there is no need for the majority of the fields that are part of the specification ... Should or could I just extend the format by creating new fields and subtypes? I wonder what would the elegant solution be. Well, have a think about what those extra fields are first - they might be in hCard already, but under used. It's true that hCard is geared up to be a fully fledged contact card, but the minimal, only required field, is only ever "fn", so it's really quite light if you choose it to be. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Football
On 13/02/07, Rob Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 13/02/07, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just off the top of my head, you might think about combining hCard and > hReview to describe a player and their abilities (or maybe even > hResume for their sporting careers). Both could also apply to teams. Also hCalendar could describe trophies/honours won. The only thing really missing is a way of describing scores. A seperate score for each team, associated with the game itself (which is perhaps hCalendar). Could this be generic enough to support more than just football - eg. Cricket, scores by innings, results like "won by an innings and 53 runs" or Baseball where the box scores might be required. Or should it be a seperate 'score microformat' for each sport which can then be slotted into a consistent framework? H.. good question. I think score is certainly a beyond the scope of an existing format that I can think of. So, everything else relating to sports aside (I think existing formats cover most aspects), this would be the only part that might need rethinking. I must admit, I'm not a sports fan so my domain knowledge is slight, so I would benefit from seeing a nice range of examples of sporting scores and what the important values are in relation to each other first before ruling out all the existing formats though! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Football
On 13/02/07, Danilo Medeiros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear friends, This is my first post to the list, so please forgive me if this is inappropriate. Hi Danilo, welcome to the -discuss list. :) I´m trying to find information about microformats in sports, more specifically football (soccer for the americans). I´m involved in a project that will expose lots of data such as match results, scouts, player information and the like, and could not help but think about using microformats to expose this data. Any suggestions or ideas? Well - the first good step you can take is to gather some information - the kind of think you'd like to publish, then think about what existing microformats will fit with this data. Just off the top of my head, you might think about combining hCard and hReview to describe a player and their abilities (or maybe even hResume for their sporting careers). Then you've got hCalendar for marking up sporting events... So yeah - using microformats to expose this data is probably very suitable and there is likely to be a good foundation already in existance to build something more accurate on to start with. F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats and Football
On 13/02/07, Danilo Medeiros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear friends, This is my first post to the list, so please forgive me if this is inappropriate. Oh, and just as a little bit of house-keeping - be sure to trim your replies a little better - you'd obviously responded to the list by replying from another thread. It makes things a little tough to follow. Thanks! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] New new mailing list
On 07/02/07, Ryan King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ok, after much feedback, deliberation and procrastination, we've started a new mailing list, microformats-new[1] for developing new microformats. One of the goals is to keep this list (microformats-discuss) focused on practical matters for people working with microformats. Though who wish to research and discuss possible new microformats should take those discussions to microformats-new. Thanks, ryan Would it be worthwhile to draw attention to this list on the blog for those that only follow that, or get just the digests? F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] "Hello World" or "How do I get started with the process?"
On 27/01/07, Derrick Lyndon Pallas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: For anyone that hasn't met me: I'm a software engineer at a search company. (However, nothing I say on this list is on behalf of or reflects the views of my company.) For anyone that has met me: yes, I finally signed up. (I'll no longer need to read over Ben's shoulder.) Hi Derrik! Welcome to the discuss list. I've been consuming microformats and have some ideas for an additional format. I've done some research to that end but am not sure if just putting up a page on the wiki is the right first step. (Are there actual templates for the pages described in the process document? Or should I just mimic similarly named pages?) We have defined a process for suggesting, researching and defining microformats and we encourage those persons interested to read that and try and follow it [1]. A first good port of call though is to chuck a message up on the -discuss list and let the community know what you have in mind and what you want to achieve. You may find others are having the same problems, or alternatively that they've already come up with a way to do what they need to do with existing microformats. [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/process -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hMood/hPresence?
On 31/01/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >As for an activity (if this is what you may be suggesting by >presense), the same would apply (is currently href="http://www.wikipedia.com/skydiving"; rel="tag">sky diving and >http://www.wikipedia.com/happy"; rel="tag">happy about >it). How would you differentiate between something written *about* sky-diving, and one written *while*, er, sky-diving? Perhaps using another rel value, similar to #? I'm just not sure what the best descriptive keyword would be! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hMood/hPresence?
On 01/02/07, Goix Laurent Walter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Anyway, the suggestion of using tags for representing mood is the least that we can do, but it's very hard to hook up to semantics and know that "happy" actually means that the blogger felt "happy". Using the href as way of representing semantics is a very loose approach since it means that all should use the same link (that somehow represents a concept semantically), which is quite hard to achieve, On a philosophical note - that assumes your experience of happy is my experience of happy. :) And yeah, I agree, it is hard to achieve. But for the specific problem of "mood", an ultimately objective topic, I think the ambiguity of the actual meaning of a specific mood is acceptable. Although, I think I missed your point first time I read it, so going back to the topic at hand - would something like happy be better? -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hMood/hPresence?
On 26/01/07, Goix Laurent Walter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Is there any plan/interest to work on a hMood or hPresence microformat that could describe information related to the mood or the activity of a person/group? Bloggers typically express their feelings over the web, or what they have been doing during the day, so it would be interesting to better formalize this information... Hey, I might be wading in a bit late on this one, but I'll throw in one of my favourites for "hMood" : tags! Could a mood not be described accurately simply by using a @rel-tag? http://www.wikipedia.com/happy"; rel="tag">happy? Afterall, the mood and activity is simply added to give a blog post, for example, additional context and this is the purpose of tagging. As for an activity (if this is what you may be suggesting by presense), the same would apply (is currently http://www.wikipedia.com/skydiving"; rel="tag">sky diving and http://www.wikipedia.com/happy"; rel="tag">happy about it). Noticed someone's already mentioned GEO for actual location formatting, so I won't again. :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Vote on this: rel="me self" to indicate an authoritative hCard {was: Re: [uf-discuss] Authoritative hCards [was RE: Canonical hCards (was: Search on CSS element)]}
On 31/01/07, Ben Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris Messina: >> >> http://factoryjoe.com/blog/hcard/#hcard"; class="fn >> url" rel="me self">Chris Messina >> Citizen Agency >> ... >> >> John Allsopp: > The "definition" of the self attribute value in Atom is "self: the > feed itself". The term "the" seems to indicate "definitiveness". > So, I was initially going to argue that "self me" was tautological, > but in fact, in this sense it is not, and indeed, the addition of > bookmark is probably tautological. > > So, I'd probably +1 this suggestion, […] +1 from me as well. Can we gauge wider support for this addition? Any problems from anyone? +1 -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Annouce: New Microformats site
On 31/01/07, Absalom Media <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just to let people know, The Joomla! Melbourne User Group site is now live and fully microformatted at http://www.joomlamug.com and www.joomlamug.org All content is built around hAtom, all contact details are built around hCard. The events calendar is partially hAtomised, with some encapsulation of hEvent (still not perfect in terms of semantics, though, so any tips to fix the event code would help as I want to hook it into Technorati's event/RRS conversion). The web links are built around hListing, with the next revision to include full XPN relationships. The Live Users area is about to be implemented with a hCard solution similar to connections.webdirections.org (XFN) as part of providing tagging to Technorati (as spoken of previously on here). In the same way Wordpress has a few packages for microformatting, I've started delivering the same for Mambo & Joomla! (currently past Generation 2 - so all core content has been microformatted by this time). Reviews, comments and the like welcomed (oh, and I am experimenting with sIFR 3.0 so don't get scared if the headings randomly disappear at times). Thanks Lawrence -- Hi Lawrence, You might want to add appropriate links to the "Examples in the Wild" sections of the microformats you've used in your site. (e.g. [1]) Will take a look at your site as soon as I find a few minutes. :) [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Examples_in_the_wild -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Vote Links: rel="voted-for"
On 18/01/07, Ara Pehlivanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Frances, In the case of rev="vote-for" what would you put in the corresponding rel=""? The same. The distinction of meaning comes from the use of rel or rev (which clearly I keep mixing up, so I won't state it again). http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#adef-rel -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Vote Links: rel="voted-for"
On 18/01/07, Ben Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 18 Jan 2007, at 15:49, Frances Berriman wrote: > Could Sites of the Month not just use rev="vote-for"? As in - this > site voted for me. Wrong way around Frances, I think. • rev="vote-for" — 'this site is a vote for the href' • rel="vote-for" — 'href is a vote for this site' Your concept is correct, though. It definitely seems like a valid case for a rel-vote. So: http://back.to/site/a"; title="Voted 'site of the month' by Site A' rel="vote-for">Site of the Month! could be used to indicate your site had been 'voted for' by another. Doh! I think you're right. Anyway - the rev/rel relationsip basically means you (should) never have to extend your class names to do the other half of a partnership. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Vote Links: rel="voted-for"
On 18/01/07, Ara Pehlivanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The implementation would go something like this: # Site A lists a bunch of "sites of the month" (rev="vote-for") # Sites of the month display a "site of the month" icon that links back to the Site A listing for that month. Could Sites of the Month not just use rev="vote-for"? As in - this site voted for me. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Vote Links: rel="voted-for"
On 18/01/07, Ara Pehlivanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Pardon the new guy. This may have possibly been discussed before, I'd
be interested in expanding the Vote Links spec to include a
rel="voted-for" ("vote-abstained", "voted-against") linking back to
the originating document. What do you think? I have an implementation
idea and this would come in really handy.
Hi Ara! :)
What's your implementation idea? May be the case that extending
vote-links isn't necessary (and reuse is always the first port of
call).
F
--
Frances Berriman
http://fberriman.com
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Re: [uf-discuss] Inline style conflict?
On 11/01/07, Jonathan Williams I have gotten a bit frustrated with the microformats.org process throughout this as people flagging my format as problematic have neglected to provide a justification for disallowing field hiding or a reference to a previous discussion of this issue. I hope that in the future we will have better process on the wiki. That's perfectly fair enough. I think that those that move an item into the "examples with problems" area should do so and *must* include either an explanation of what the issue is (and ideally a resolution for the issue) and/or a link to the relevant discussion or explanation on the problem. (So, if anyone has moved things, would they be so kind as to maybe go back and jot down why they moved it, please?) It's difficult for someone else to come along later and figure out why it was moved, otherwise. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Inline style conflict?
On 10/01/07, EC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi there, I notice the site Theatre Studies: European Theatre (http://www.theatrestudies.llc.ed.ac.uk/) has been placed in the problem section of http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-examples-in-wild due to the use of inline style (style="display:none") used within an img tag. Here is the code in question: http://www.theatrestudies.llc.ed.ac.uk/images/staff/scolvin.jpg"; alt="Sarah Colvin" class="photo" /> Professor Sarah Colvin Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" class="email">[EMAIL PROTECTED] I am not sure why this has been done as: A) the img is part a hCard and not an hCalender, although both exist on the page B) using a correctly formatted css inline markup to hide the img from the browser renderers cannot, surely, conflict with microformat semantic markup. Having read the brainstorming hCard FAQ I initially used around the img tag - however I see no reason in this case to add the extra markup around the img tag. ( The is the future 'Proposed Additions'(http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#Use_of_CSS_compute d_styles_instead_of_HTML_default_styles) but this is for text formating, as far as I can see, so it wouldn't interfere with an img file getting parsed correctly.) Using the Tails (0.3.6) Firefox add-on correctly parses the microformat content on this page including the image. Can anyone explain why the inline css style (display:none) cannot co-exist (ignoring the benefits of using external style sheets rather than inline css) with the microformat semantic markup. I'm probably missing something obvious here, so thanks for any advice. Cheers Euan Hi Euan, I've looked at this twice now and I can't see an obvious reason for the hCard to be incorrect. There is on-going debate on whether hiding information is a good or bad idea, but the actual mark-up you've used is correct and I've no trouble at all parsing your card in Tails, Operator, etc. If you look at hcard-issues [1] you'll find discussions on negative impacts of hiding entire cards, but not specifically hiding a single part of it. Afterall, if the photo of your card was skipped, it would still be a valid hCard without it. You should carefully consider whether you want to hide the photo of your card, and whether you want to do this inline especially. Anyone else like to chime in? I'm not totally sure here. [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Receipt Microformat
On 05/01/07, Martin Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Oh sorry, I wasn't proposing anything per say. the research I've done includes search the mailing list, the wiki, google and several other ecommerce resources, didn't find anything. No sweat. I've mainly just jotted down some notes to get them out my head, did you want me to list urls or relevant information too? I must admit to not being very proficient at standards creation but I thought you'd like to talk about the 'idea' rather than just the notes and structures. That's fine, but obviously if it's not documented anywhere it's hard for anyone else to have any input and help/give feedback. Tell us about what you've found, though! This is for discussion, yes. So that's a good place to start. :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Receipt Microformat
On 05/01/07, Martin Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello all, Hi Martin! :) I propose the following microformat for describing an online purchase receipt, allowing collecting into accountancy software and general receipt collectors (depending on complexity and requirements): [hReceipt] Transaction ID Order Number Date TotalCost BillingAddress [hCard] Packages [hPackage] [hPackage] DeliveryAddress [hCard] DeliveryCost Purchases [hPurchase] [hPurchase] ProductSku ProductName Cost The kinds of complexities to appear are to do with taxes, special offers and discounts; but I'd rather make a start and expand with what is the best direction to take. Best Regards, Martin Owens Before starting to spec up a possible microformat you should follow the process. Basically, a series of research jobs and documentation of what's already out there needs to happen. That way, once you've gone through all of that, you know that a) the microformat is actually a valid one and will solve a problem and b) accurate! Take a look at this: http://microformats.org/wiki/process F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Splitting the FAQ?
On 03/01/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On 03/01/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> 2) The answer to your first two, tautological, questions (and by >> implication your last) is contained in my post, Please (re)read it. > >I read your email. I don't see your concerns outlined. Then I suggest that you did not read it well. Try reading the first sentence again. "getting too long"? -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel="tag"
On 03/01/07, Nick Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Seeing the tag implementation on Operator has made me question the existing tagging standard. With wordpress you may get something like "?cat=13" for a tag or something that may not even be the intended tag at all. After doing some research on the wiki I see that the rel="tag" microformat is based off of existing defacto standards (implemented by sites such as del.icio.us and flickr). I still don't see why the standard extracts the tag from the last part of the URL instead of the information inside the anchor tag. When I see a tag and click on it, I expect the visible content, not what's appended to the end of a URL. Anyone care to shed some light on this for me? -Nick I might be misunderstanding you, but I think you might be confusing categorisation with tagging (the latter being a method of adding additional context)? -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Splitting the FAQ?
On 03/01/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 2) The answer to your first two, tautological, questions (and by implication your last) is contained in my post, Please (re)read it. I read your email. I don't see your concerns outlined. I have no problems with how the FAQ currently is. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel="nsfw"
On 30/12/06, Colin Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is just silly. The microformat spec wouldn't specify what things are suitable for work. I could see Chinese-language or Arabic-language developing their own informal sense of what rel=nsfw means. It's a tool for content authors to use, nothing more. There's no codifying of anything. -Colin I think that's the key to this. "NSFW" just happens to be a really good marker. So what if some people don't know what it actually stands for? Does everyone who uses RSS or those who look out for the orange chicklet know what "RSS" stands for, or what the little lines in the icon are representing? No. Probably not. I know my mother doesn't. She just sees it and knows it means she can click it and it'll give her a way to get updates about that page. It's not important what the "marker" is so long as everyone gets what it does. "NSFW" appears to be turning out to be the marker for this particular need. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: Content rating examples deleted (was: [uf-discuss] rel="nsfw")
On 29/12/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Here's the previous research on this: > >http://microformats.org/wiki/content-rating-examples > >Apparently deleted after inactivity. Three & a half hours of inactivity... If you read my follow up response on that thread, the deletion is explained a little more. I don't think this new thread is especially warranted. It was literally a format that came and went in about 24 hours, iirc! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel="nsfw"
On 29/12/06, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Dec 29, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote: > What happened to the uF "requirement" for research into existing > practices? It's still there. Here's the previous research on this: http://microformats.org/wiki/content-rating-examples Apparently deleted after inactivity. I believe Drew deleted the content-rating pages that we started (assuming it was so there wouldn't be any confusion about a half-started uFs that would never go anywhere!). Just about everything gleamed from the brief exploration of interest is in the mailing list archives though. The content-rating got listed under rejected-formats instead [1]. [1]http://microformats.org/wiki/rejected-formats#Content_Rating -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Bug-fixing uF implementations was - [uf-discuss] Help w/hcard
On 29/12/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does it validate? [1] Just thinking off the top of my head - but do we have a document that outlines the best way to bug-fix a microformat implementation? I realise it's "common sense" to many, but it doesn't hurt to have a document that can easily be found and linked to etc. It may be valuable to have one that says exactly "check validation" as it's first step. I had a search on the wiki and did not come across one. If you must post code snippets instead of URLs, please format them to make them easy for humans to read. Thank you. The example code-snippet is not wrapped badly in the email I received - it goes a bit haywire when I use a little browser window though. It can be tricky to format such things - I'm sure it wasn't intentionally difficult to read! -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel="nsfw"
On 29/12/06, Frances Berriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The concept of being able to mark something as unsafe, mature, NSFW, etc. *does* keep cropping back up though - so this may point to either the need to explain and introduce/encourage people to use the resolution suggested previously (i.e. using rel), or thinking again about something a little more solid. Just to quickly point out to save anyone looking (rel solution): http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-July/004951.html -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel="nsfw"
On 29/12/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >many people are publishing "NSFW" warnings. So vague as it may be, >it's apparently communicating something useful on the live web today. That's "something useful in a large judeo-christian western democracy", then... What's "safe for work" in China, or Iran? Is a nude picture of a 17-year old safe for work in Holland? Or the UK? This is exactly the issue we came up with when we started discussing a content-rating format a few months back, and previous again to that [1]. It's very difficult to come up with a universal standard for describing content and it's "safety". However, "NSFW" is a term starting to be used as commonly as other "web speak" terms such as "LOL" or "RTFM" (poor examples, but the point is - not everyone who uses that necessarily knows what it means or where it originates). The concept of being able to mark something as unsafe, mature, NSFW, etc. *does* keep cropping back up though - so this may point to either the need to explain and introduce/encourage people to use the resolution suggested previously (i.e. using rel), or thinking again about something a little more solid. [1]http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-July/004942.html -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] A microformat for relationship availability and preference?
On 21/12/06, Ciaran McNulty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 12/20/06, Angus McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are all kinds of inferences that it's dangerous to draw from an > incomplete description. I concur, Microformats allow us to publish information, but the absence of them shouldn't be taken as conveying information. > Which raises the whole question for me with XFN, which is a practical > one, rather than a technical one: do we really want the world to know > all that stuff about us? Yes, quite. Inherent in the Microformats movement is the desire to make information easier to publish and aggregate, but people need to consider carefully what parts they want to make available about themselves and their relationships to others. Just to briefly step back to another "principle" - using microformats does not mean you should be publishing things you would not normally. For example, if you wouldn't normally publish your phone number - don't start now just because you want to use the tel part of hCard. Same goes for XFN. If you don't already say "I'm this person's wife/colleague.. etc" don't start doing it! A person probably shouldn't start publishing information themselves that they were not originally comfortable with broadcasting. It's personal choice, and all optional. ;) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: professional relations (was: XFN usage stats and Re: [uf-discuss] rel="muse" implies romantic relationship?)
On 12/12/06, Angus McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, December 12, 2006 5:05 pm, Andy Mabbett wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > >>OTOH, I could use any of the following if attached to "professional": >>Respect, admire, impressed by,awed, revere, worship, idolize, iconize. >>If would be nice if there was a way to extend professional respect and >>admiration. > > Not to mention: mentor, mentee, trainer, trainee, I wonder if idolizing someone is in some way analogous to a VoteLinks vote-for. If we start encoding not only hierarchical relations but expressions of approval/disapproval, you have the possibility to write some extremely career-limiting XFN expressions. ... and ... are two that might not do you any good in the workplace ... Angus I agree. It's an amusing situation, but possibly a bit personal! Adding additional attribute values seems a bit like splitting hairs to me. What exists at the moment is a generalised, but for the most part adequate list of types that describe in a loose terms (so as not to be restrictive) just about any relationship a person is likely to have. There are probably merits to adding a couple more, but I'm not sure adding every single explicit type of relationship has any extra value. Infact, adding too many additional terms starts to water down the effect and would no doubt make creating useful maps of information from these relationships difficult. F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Mars & Moon news stories
On 07/12/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Both Mars and the Moon have been in the news this week: * water on mars: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6214834.stm> <http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20061206b.html> * Mars landers photographed: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6211870.stm> <http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/newsroom/pressreleases/20061204a.html> <http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/PSP/PSP_001521_2025/> "The complete image is centered at 22.3 degrees latitude, 312.1 degrees East longitude." * Moon base proposed: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6210154.stm> <http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/dec/HQ_06361_ESMD_Lunar_Architecture.html> and in each case specific locations are referred to. Where are we, with the 'Mars': <http://microformats.org/wiki/mars> and 'Luna': <http://microformats.org/wiki/luna> proposals? The plans for the Lunar base are certainly exciting. Discussing specific areas of the moon will become much more common place over the next decade, I'm sure! How sci-fi. (I'm genuinely interested in this, btw, this isn't sarcasm on any level.) Re: status of proposals - back atch'ya! You appear to be the major contributor to both of these proposals, so where are you with them? What specific problems are causing hold-ups, if any? F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] RE: QnA microformat(s)
On 11/18/06, Korby Parnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi-- I can't seem to find any information about "question and answer" microformats on microformats.org. Insofar as I'm new to this list, has there been any backchannel discussion about distributed Q&A systems and a microformat or microformats to support them? Hi Korby, I've not come across a "Q&A" specific format being mentioned before - so this is probably something new :) You could start gathering a few examples of Q&A systems out there (to understand what's already being done) and then take a look at how one might go about marking these with existing formats (if at all - can't simple Question/Answers be marked with definition lists alone?). F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hRewiew and blockquote check
On 11/17/06, Ryan King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Nov 17, 2006, at 6:27 AM, Frances Berriman wrote: > Is this allowed (it is picked up by tails, but is it correct)? (using > cite inside a blockquote so that it can be associated as the source of > the quote and the reviewer of the hReview - or should I have the > class="hreview" on a div exterior to the blockquote and also the cite > after the ?): > > > > We have always found class="fn">TheCompany to be on the ball with regards to > the services given. We very much see TheCompany as our data partner. > We have been with them for over 5 years and see no reason why we would > change supplier. > > Joe Bloggs, class="role">Director of Stuff, Partner > Company Nov 16, > 2006 > > I see no problem with this. I think the only microformat that takes into account and is hAtom. Okay. Thank you, Ryan. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Exporting Hcard data
On 11/17/06, Michelle Tarby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OK, I'm making progress - I wasn't passing any kind of ID, so that's why X2V
would just spin away.
What I have noticed is that it looks like the vCard that's generated adds a
bunch of extra commas, so I'm guessing I don't have my page formatted correctly.
<%=rs("LastName") %>
<%=rs("FirstName") %>
<%= rs("FirstName") %> <%= rs("LastName") %>
<%= rs("Title") %>
<%= rs("Department") %>
<%= rs("Street1") %> <%= rs("Street2")
%>
<%= rs("Phone") %>
"><%= rs("SchoolEmail")
%>
I'm wondering if I'm confusing where to use div vs. span or if that makes a
difference. Any information would be appreciated!
It makes no real difference. Infact, in the examples in the spec,
divs and spans are simply used for demonstrational purposes.
Generally, you should be making every effort to mark up the
information as semantically as possible and this is often done without
using any divs or spans at all (and instead using lists, paragraphs,
etc. and putting the classes on these). So - yeah. That shouldn't be
your issue.
I can't spot anything out of the oridinary above. I'd have done the address as:
<%= rs("Street1") %> <%=
rs("Street2") %>
but that's about it. Sorry :(
What's does your result look like (with the extra commas)?
--
Frances Berriman
http://fberriman.com
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Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: wine
On 11/17/06, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What cross posting? Are you trying to say it's inappropropriate to bring up a prior discussion when it is relevant to the current discussion? I didn't really mean what you said. The prior part you quoted regarding splitting the mailing list down into proposals etc. Of course discussing other similar proposals is suitable :) -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hRewiew and blockquote check
Is this allowed (it is picked up by tails, but is it correct)? (using cite inside a blockquote so that it can be associated as the source of the quote and the reviewer of the hReview - or should I have the class="hreview" on a div exterior to the blockquote and also the cite after the ?): We have always found TheCompany to be on the ball with regards to the services given. We very much see TheCompany as our data partner. We have been with them for over 5 years and see no reason why we would change supplier. Joe Bloggs, Director of Stuff, Partner Company Nov 16, 2006 Thanks guys, F -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: wine
On 11/17/06, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Andy Mabbett wrote: >> c/f recent discussion about uF mailing lists, and my comment: >> For example, several academic and professional taxonomists have >> told me in e-mail that they would be interested in the species >> proposal, (and one astronomer, likewise, for mars/ luna), but do >> not have the time to follow a general mailing list; indeed, a >> couple asked me specifically if I would set up a separate >> mailing list for the subject. Funny how we get to have deja vi all over again, eh? ;-) Lets not (cross posting). Keep the discussion about mailing lists to the mailing list thread. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Proposal: wine
On 11/16/06, James Jory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think you misunderstood at least where I'm coming from. I jumped in on this thread since it was discussing wine but I was not intending to propose a wine microformat (as the original subject indicates). Anyway, what I was asking about was the best way to begin the discussion for how wine information can be represented using (existing) microformats. I didn't spot one in the previous discussion - but is there a link to a wine marked up in HTML somewhere on the web? I have a fair-guess idea of how to do one with existing formats (but I'd just be guessing on required data), but we can do a joint effort on here then log it as an example on the wiki if you've got a reasonable example (it'd be fun to do and serve as a good reference in future for other possible product-specific formats people might suggest - or we might get stuck, either way, I'd like to try and we'd know if existing formats WILL work!). :) But a more exact answer: Best way to get started is to find some existing examples in the wild - not microformatted. -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hCard and "ATTN" text?
I'd mark "MyCompany" as an organisation, and "Joe Bloe" as fn. You can still present it with org first. On 11/14/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, Right now I'm marking up a mailing address with an hCard, but I'm not completely sure how to mark up part of it. It goes something like this... and this isn't the real mailing address, but it should suffice... MyCompany Inc., ATTN: Joe Blow, 123 Somewhere Ave W Vancouver BC WWW111 Now, I'm not sure what to do with the "ATTN: Joe Blow". Should it be part of the "fn"? (Or should only "MyCompany Inc." be the "fn"?) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Frances Berriman http://fberriman.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
