Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Ryan King wrote: Unfortunately I don't think ISO8061 has a way of representing 'now' - the only thing I could suggest would be that you set it equal to the document's publication date, maybe using PHP as you suggest. Ugg, that's annoying. I think I actually missed this when writing hResume. I wrongly assumed that VEVENTS with no DTEND were ongoing. For the sake of publishers, it might be useful to find a way for people to say 'now' or 'present' in hCalendar. I think having an explicit dtend with an empty string as the value would be a good (and l10n-friendly) way to do it. This way you can write things like since as well as Present ~fantasai ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
On Oct 19, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Jeremy Boggs wrote: Agreed, for now, this is an excellent point to start: http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues Thanks for setting this up, Tantek. So, if we want to discuss further issues with this problem, should we post them there, on that wiki page, or continue making comments through email? A while ago I responded to Ciaran's last message in this thread, but if that response (or at least some form of it) should go on the wiki, I'll be glad to do that. In addition to the points Tantek made, I'd like to add one thing about *-issues pages in particular– they are like a todo page for the spec editors. It's a sort-of bug (and enhancement) tracker for the spec. -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Others have commented on the different scenarios for dtend, but i noticed that in your hCard you don't have an FN, which is required. This can be fixed with the Include pattern, but i was wondering if you had your resume online so we could test out different possibilities? and validate the microformats. Thanks Brian! This is very generous of you. I've put up an unstyled version of what I have completed so far : http://clioweb.org/cv.php And I did include FN in other sections of my resume, but not in the example I sent to the list. One thing I am uncertain about, is whether I should put FN in with the ORG, or if that should be separate, and for my name. My updated example would read: Web Developer, http://chnm.gmu.edu"; class="url org fn">Center for History and New Media December 2005-present As you can see, I've put URL, ORG, and FN in the same element. This actually doesn't seem logical, now that I think about it. Is this correct, or no? You'll also probably note that I'm using PHP to echo the current date for the DTEND for "present." This is what I initially started doing, before I sent my initial inquiry to the list. And there are a number of things that I haven't added yet, and things that are on here that I haven't marked up with microformats (specifically, my publications with citation microformat) Thanks for any help you or anyone else can offer. Best, Jeremy ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Jeremy Boggs wrote: > Hi List, > > Another newbie question: I'm marking up my CV using hResume, and I'm a > little uncertain about how best to combine hCard and hCalendar classes > to mark up experience.[1] Right now, I'm using the following markup: > > > Web > Developer, http://chnm.gmu.edu";>Center > for History and New Media > > title="20051215">December 2005-present > > Do you have a link for your hresume? Others have commented on the different scenarios for dtend, but i noticed that in your hCard you don't have an FN, which is required. This can be fixed with the Include pattern, but i was wondering if you had your resume online so we could test out different possibilities? and validate the microformats. -brian ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
IMO it implies that you were employed during those times, I'm not sure whether it implies you're *not* employed after the DTEND... This, IMO, seems problematic. From a human point of view, people would probably understand that class="dtend">present mean that I'm still employed at that position, and looking at the web page, would see "present" and know I'm still employed there. But, from a machine or parser point-of-view, it does provide a specific end date for the event/position in question. This would also raise a question of integrity about DTEND in general, if you can imply that the date value of a DTEND is not necessarily the end date of an event. Looking a little more closely at the example hResumes available*, I found seven different ways folks are marking up "present" or "current:" 1. Not using DTEND or an abbreviation for present at all: [1] 2001–present 2. Using DTEND, and using a specific end date that is not the current date, but is a date in the past: [2] March 2005 - class="dtend" title="2006-06-13">present 3. Using DTEND, and using a specific date that is the current date [3] Jun 2003 - class="dtend" title="2006-10-19">Present 4. Using DTEND, and using a specific end date that is not the current date, but is a date in the future: [4] present 5. Using "present" as the value for the title attribute (but no class="dtend"): [5] 2002 - title="Present">Present 6. Wrapping "present" in an , but not using a title attribute to give a date: [6] November 2004 to class="dtend">present 7. Using title="20061232" for the DTEND value: [7] 2003 - class="dtend" title="20061232"> Present And, I hope folks know that I'm merely citing these resumes to figure out what has already been tried, and certainly not to be critical of these specific folks :) But I hope it helps as a starting point to figure out what has been tried, what is problematic (or not) about what examples that exist, and how we should go from here. Thanks! Jeremy * http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume#Examples_in_the_wild [1] http://ben-ward.co.uk/cv [2] http://www.commoner.com/~lsimon/lindsey_simon_resume.html [3] http://portfolio.jonnay.net/cv/ [4] http://adrem.ua.ac.be/~wlepage/curriculum-vitae/ [5] http://www.kelleychambers.com/resume [6] http://www.3color.org/~kwilson/resume/kenneth-wilson.html [7] http://www.brandi.org/ralph/resume/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
On 10/19/06 3:27 PM, "Jeremy Boggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Agreed, for now, this is an excellent point to start: >> >> http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues > > Thanks for setting this up, Tantek. So, if we want to discuss further > issues with this problem, should we post them there, on that wiki > page, or continue making comments through email? A while ago I > responded to Ciaran's last message in this thread, but if that > response (or at least some form of it) should go on the wiki, I'll be > glad to do that. Excellent questions Jeremy. There is no simple hard and fast rule, but I have found that the following guidelines seem to help. 1. Discussions work better on the email list (or IRC channel - which is often faster than email). 2. Conclusions/opinions are better recorded on the wiki. In general, I tend to prefer the combination of IRC+wiki, but that is largely my personal preference - YMMV. Clearly email works better for discussing more in depth issues. I've simply found that I am often unable to keep up with all the different threads, and thus end up not replying to some for many days (weeks, months), and then important concluding points get lost because they are never persisted in any form in a place where people can easily find them. That is, the wiki is more "reader friendly" than email because you can go to the wiki and understand "the current state" of things, whereas email archives are both hard to search and you have to typically read through a whole thread to understand what points were resolved and how. Thus even for "issues" - if you believe you have a solid understanding of what an issue is, and that it is an issue, you could add it directly to the appropriate *-issues page. You could then use email as a notification mechanism that you have raised the issue and provide a URL to it on the wiki. OTOH if you're not certain about an issue, then posting to the list can help to clarify/refine it at which point it should probably be captured on the wiki - in the hopes that it will be resolved and respective changes incorporated, and serve as documentation for those who would raise the same issue in the future. Thanks, Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Agreed, for now, this is an excellent point to start: http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues Thanks for setting this up, Tantek. So, if we want to discuss further issues with this problem, should we post them there, on that wiki page, or continue making comments through email? A while ago I responded to Ciaran's last message in this thread, but if that response (or at least some form of it) should go on the wiki, I'll be glad to do that. thanks, Jeremy ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
On 10/19/06, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It seems, though, that setting the dtend date to the document's publication date would imply a specific end date for the job that isn't accurate. For instance, if I published my resume a month ago, but I'm still employed at the same position, I wouldn't want to use present. IMO it implies that you were employed during those times, I'm not sure whether it implies you're *not* employed after the DTEND... If it's any consolation, I've had a very similar problem in real life, when I put 2005-2006' on a job entry on my CV and was asked why I left the job... I hadn't! Brian Suda recommended using "duration" for dates when i asked about historical dates a while back.[1] Is there something similar in iCal or in RFC 2445 for "repetition"...that is, can you say that an event repeats perpetually?. I know in iCal itself, you can set certain events to repeat every day, or specific days/times. Is there something similar in RFC 2445 or ISO dates that covers this? I belive if you set a DURATION, the semantics aren't that different from setting a DTEND, it's just a different way of representing the same data (and DTEND type representations are far more common in hResume). You could set an ambitiously optimistic DURATION, or an extremely futuristic DTEND for now, that might capture what you're trying to say. It's certainly an area that needs attention (and seems to be getting it, from the last couple of messages in this thread). -Ciaran McNulty ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Unfortunately I don't think ISO8061 has a way of representing 'now' - the only thing I could suggest would be that you set it equal to the document's publication date, maybe using PHP as you suggest. Thanks Ciaran! It seems, though, that setting the dtend date to the document's publication date would imply a specific end date for the job that isn't accurate. For instance, if I published my resume a month ago, but I'm still employed at the same position, I wouldn't want to use present. Likewise, I see problems with using PHP (or something else) to generate the current date, because that also implies a specific ending date for the position. So, if I used, say, >, in the title attribute, that would create title="20061019">present. This is essentially saying that my tenure at the position ended on October 19, 2006, which is also inaccurate. Of course, I'm failing to offer a plausible solution to the issue; my apologies for that. :) Brian Suda recommended using "duration" for dates when i asked about historical dates a while back.[1] Is there something similar in iCal or in RFC 2445 for "repetition"...that is, can you say that an event repeats perpetually?. I know in iCal itself, you can set certain events to repeat every day, or specific days/times. Is there something similar in RFC 2445 or ISO dates that covers this? Best, Jeremy [1] http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006- June/004488.html ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
On 10/19/06 11:29 AM, "Ryan King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:29 AM, Ciaran McNulty wrote: >> In iCal (and therefore presumably hCal), the following rule applies >> for events that lack a DTEND or DURATION: >> >> "For >> cases where a "VEVENT" calendar component specifies a "DTSTART" >> property with a DATE data type but no "DTEND" property, the events >> non-inclusive end is the end of the calendar date specified by the >> "DTSTART" property. For cases where a "VEVENT" calendar component >> specifies a "DTSTART" property with a DATE-TIME data type but no >> "DTEND" property, the event ends on the same calendar date and time >> of day specified by the "DTSTART" property." >> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt >> >> Therefore your markup would therefore have an implicit DTEND at the >> end of 15th Dec 2005, by my reading of the spec. >> >> Unfortunately I don't think ISO8061 has a way of representing 'now' - >> the only thing I could suggest would be that you set it equal to the >> document's publication date, maybe using PHP as you suggest. > > > Ugg, that's annoying. I think I actually missed this when writing > hResume. I wrongly assumed that VEVENTS with no DTEND were ongoing. > > For the sake of publishers, it might be useful to find a way for > people to say 'now' or 'present' in hCalendar. Agreed, for now, this is an excellent point to start: http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues Thanks, Tantek ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:29 AM, Ciaran McNulty wrote: In iCal (and therefore presumably hCal), the following rule applies for events that lack a DTEND or DURATION: "For cases where a "VEVENT" calendar component specifies a "DTSTART" property with a DATE data type but no "DTEND" property, the events non-inclusive end is the end of the calendar date specified by the "DTSTART" property. For cases where a "VEVENT" calendar component specifies a "DTSTART" property with a DATE-TIME data type but no "DTEND" property, the event ends on the same calendar date and time of day specified by the "DTSTART" property." http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt Therefore your markup would therefore have an implicit DTEND at the end of 15th Dec 2005, by my reading of the spec. Unfortunately I don't think ISO8061 has a way of representing 'now' - the only thing I could suggest would be that you set it equal to the document's publication date, maybe using PHP as you suggest. Ugg, that's annoying. I think I actually missed this when writing hResume. I wrongly assumed that VEVENTS with no DTEND were ongoing. For the sake of publishers, it might be useful to find a way for people to say 'now' or 'present' in hCalendar. -ryan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Is this a correct way of marking this up? Are there better options? I want to make sure I have the uses of hCard and hCalendar correct, with regards to hResume. In iCal (and therefore presumably hCal), the following rule applies for events that lack a DTEND or DURATION: "For cases where a "VEVENT" calendar component specifies a "DTSTART" property with a DATE data type but no "DTEND" property, the events non-inclusive end is the end of the calendar date specified by the "DTSTART" property. For cases where a "VEVENT" calendar component specifies a "DTSTART" property with a DATE-TIME data type but no "DTEND" property, the event ends on the same calendar date and time of day specified by the "DTSTART" property." http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt Therefore your markup would therefore have an implicit DTEND at the end of 15th Dec 2005, by my reading of the spec. Unfortunately I don't think ISO8061 has a way of representing 'now' - the only thing I could suggest would be that you set it equal to the document's publication date, maybe using PHP as you suggest. -Ciaran McNulty ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hResume - Marking up experience and "present" date
Hi List,
Another newbie question: I'm marking up my CV using hResume, and I'm
a little uncertain about how best to combine hCard and hCalendar
classes to mark up experience.[1] Right now, I'm using the following
markup:
Web Developer,
http://chnm.gmu.edu";>Center for History and
New Media
December
2005-present
So, the starts the "experience" and "vevent." the is both
the "summary" of the vevent and the start of the hCard. Finally, the
is the "description" of the vevent, and includes the events
start and end times.
Is this a correct way of marking this up? Are there better options? I
want to make sure I have the uses of hCard and hCalendar correct,
with regards to hResume.
Also, you may notice I didn't mark up "present" as the dtend of the
event. Are there established ways of marking up "present," or the
present date, with hCalendar? Some of the resume examples[2] either
don't use dtend at all, or use it for "present", but give it title
values that aren't the *present* date. I imagine you could use date('Ymd'); ?> to spit out the current date, but that might be
problematic too, as it implies a specific end date. Alternatively,
Sajid Saiyed's resume uses Present.[3]
Thanks!
Jeremy
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume#Experience
[2] http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume#Examples_in_the_wild
[3] http://www.ssdesigninteractive.com/ssdesign/?page_id=95
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