Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
Kelson Vibber said: > At 01:28 PM 3/22/2004, Justin wrote: >>RPM is really quite lame. If you ever want to really annoy RPM uninstall >>the very dated version of Perl and all it's various modules that come >> with >>RH and compile and install the latest greatest from source. RPM will >>never forgive you that one. :) > > Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried this on Debian? How well does > apt-get/dpkg handle that one? Well assuming i just do an upgrade from perl 5.6.1 to perl 5.8.3 using apt-get, it worked perfectly. The problem is I've only used apt-get on debian systems. I never install anything on a compile, as I never install compiler tools on those server's. My guess is it will puke. I've use cpan2rpm to create deb and rpm files from CPAN, that works well. -- Luke Computer Science System Administrator Security Administrator,College of Engineering Montana State University-Bozeman,Montana ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
> In the course of the conversation I asked if I was allowed to install the OS on > more than one server or if the update rpms were available for download to a > subscriber. The answer to both questions was NO. Further to that, I did the very rare step of actually reading the subscription legal agreement. http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_us_3.html The part where they can come into your site for a physical audit or the part where the subscription is automatically renewed unless you give them 60 days notice is especially scary. I guess this is why my Redhat shares are doing so well... Fedora, here we come (sigh...).-- Alan Madill - Aspen House Systems 250 567-4200 ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
> David F. Skoll said: > > Fedora Core 1's actually not too bad. I have Gentoo on a laptop, > > but compiling *everything* from source pretty soon gets tiresome. > Their are some rhel enterprise clones: Taolinux http://taolinux.org/ > Lineox http://www.lineox.com/ Caos linux http://www.caosity.org/ > Whitebox Linux http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ Timely topic. I am setting up a new server for a customer. We have always used RedHat distros and I'm comfortable with them. I was going to purchase Enterprise Server ES basic edition today. At a cost of $350 US it isn't out of line for a years worth of updates and bug fixes. I phoned their presales support line just to see if their support was as good as it was the last time I called (maybe two years ago). In the course of the conversation I asked if I was allowed to install the OS on more than one server or if the update rpms were available for download to a subscriber. The answer to both questions was NO. Now I have a bit of a quandry. The server I'm building is a medium office general purpose system. There is a good chance it will be running Oracle which is only supported on a couple of distros. But I want to stick to the same platform across most of the sites I support and the Redhat ES is going to be a bit rich for most of them. -- Alan Madill - Aspen House Systems 250 567-4200 ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Kelson Vibber wrote: > I don't think it's a failing of RPM so much as it's a failing of package > managers in general - namely, if you install anything that the PM doesn't > know about, it acts as if it isn't there. The only way you can get around > that is if you can override the PM and tell it, "Look, Perl's really > installed. I know I can't tell you in detail where all the files are, or > what libraries and utilities it depends on, but it's installed, honest!" See I was thinking Portage could do just this. Note however that I haven't yet gotten a chance to try it, but I'm getting closer. Perhaps it would be better to build a system that maintains a detail file on what the package manage expects to find (or has to find) to be able to say that yes, Package A is actually installed so I can add it to my internal DB. That way even if you download and compile by hand you could tell your package manager that Package A is really installed and the package manager could use the detail file to confirm that. It's a possibility. This way the detail file is distributed in portage and portage has a chance to confirm that the package is installed rather than taking our word for it. Hmm... interesting... Justin ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
At 03:48 PM 3/22/2004, Les Mikesell wrote: There are two approaches that work. One is to keep locally compiled things under /usr/local which is often their default, and adjust your PATH to use them instead of the system version when desired. I used to do this. Actually, I still do this on servers with sendmail, apache, and php. Stow helps a little, but it's still pain to deal with, especially when you've replaced a system package or you need to uninstall or upgrade something. The other is write a spec file (you can usually adapt the old one from RH) to build your own RPM. The latter way keeps the RPM database up to date, makes it easy to install on other machines, and makes it possible to uninstall everything. This is now my preferred way to handle it, both at home and at work. It's just cleaner, and it's usually not much more difficult than building the source manually (and sometimes easier!). Often all you have to do is update the version number and grab the new source (which you would have done anyway). And it's becoming more common for projects (like MD) to include their own .spec files, so all you have to do is run "rpmbuild -ta whatever.tar.gz" Although with my desktop machines running Fedora, I've found that using apt-get and synaptic with FreshRPMs, DAG and ATRPMs is very nice. Often if I don't need something right away, I'll wait a day or two, see if it shows up, and only then build my own package. Kelson Viber SpeedGate Communications ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
On Mon, 2004-03-22 at 17:13, Kelson Vibber wrote: > >RPM is really quite lame. > I don't think it's a failing of RPM so much as it's a failing of package > managers in general - namely, if you install anything that the PM doesn't > know about, it acts as if it isn't there. The only way you can get around > that is if you can override the PM and tell it, "Look, Perl's really > installed. I know I can't tell you in detail where all the files are, or > what libraries and utilities it depends on, but it's installed, honest!" There are two approaches that work. One is to keep locally compiled things under /usr/local which is often their default, and adjust your PATH to use them instead of the system version when desired. The other is write a spec file (you can usually adapt the old one from RH) to build your own RPM. The latter way keeps the RPM database up to date, makes it easy to install on other machines, and makes it possible to uninstall everything. Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
At 01:28 PM 3/22/2004, Justin wrote: RPM is really quite lame. If you ever want to really annoy RPM uninstall the very dated version of Perl and all it's various modules that come with RH and compile and install the latest greatest from source. RPM will never forgive you that one. :) Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried this on Debian? How well does apt-get/dpkg handle that one? And as I understand it, even in Gentoo you'd still have to use portage to get the benefits of its package management. Sure, it'll be newer than the version in Red Hat or Debian Stable, but if you installed from source instead of using emerge, you'd still run into problems. I don't think it's a failing of RPM so much as it's a failing of package managers in general - namely, if you install anything that the PM doesn't know about, it acts as if it isn't there. The only way you can get around that is if you can override the PM and tell it, "Look, Perl's really installed. I know I can't tell you in detail where all the files are, or what libraries and utilities it depends on, but it's installed, honest!" Kelson Vibber SpeedGate Communications ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, David F. Skoll wrote: > In that case, use the latest PostgreSQL 7.4.x. It's much better than > the 7.3.x series (faster, and better at reclaiming space during a VACUUM.) It sounds like it's worth it. I'll see what I can do about compiling that shortly. I'll see if I can jumpstart the demo process soon too. > Fedora Core 1's actually not too bad. I have Gentoo on a laptop, but > compiling *everything* from source pretty soon gets tiresome. I've heard some good things about Fedora. I've also heard it's basically RH9 with improvememnts (not a bad thing). It was proposed that we switch to RH Enterprise. The question I posed back to the person that suggested that was when was the last time we actually called RH for tech support. Well, after some pondering I finally just told them: we've never called them for tech support cause we've never needed it (or could afford to do it "their" way so they'd support our efforts). Really a good admin should be able to support him or herself with the available online resources and groups. That was the end of the RH Enterprise notion. I'm really looking forward to trying Gentoo on one of my boxes. All my boxes are SMP boxes and reasonably fast at that so compile times shouldn't be too bad. I'm really looking forward to what could quite possibly be a much better package manager. RPM is really quite lame. If you ever want to really annoy RPM uninstall the very dated version of Perl and all it's various modules that come with RH and compile and install the latest greatest from source. RPM will never forgive you that one. :) I'm looking forward to trying Gentoo and trying Can-It Pro. I can't hardly wait until we're ready. Justin ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
Re: OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
David F. Skoll said: > Fedora Core 1's actually not too bad. I have Gentoo on a laptop, but > compiling *everything* from source pretty soon gets tiresome. Their are some rhel enterprise clones: Taolinux http://taolinux.org/ Lineox http://www.lineox.com/ Caos linux http://www.caosity.org/ Whitebox Linux http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ We are thinking of going with the RedHat enterprise clone Lineox. It has a yearly cost of $2 per machine, or an unlimited site license cost of $2000 per year. This is for RedHat Enterprise AS clone, has ALL the packages. Should be trivial to upgrade my RedHat 9 boxes to lineox. It looks and feels the same as RedHat. It uses apt, and I can use a local mirror. Erratta come out 12 hours after RedHat releases errata. It has a 5 year errata support cycle. It is compatible with fedora/freshrpms/dag apt rhel repositories. So mimedefang 2.40 is available from the dag repository... -- Luke Computer Science System Administrator Security Administrator,College of Engineering Montana State University-Bozeman,Montana ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
OT: Gentoo, Red Hat, etc. (was Re: [Mimedefang] Latest MIME-Tools)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Justin wrote: > I almost never use any outward facing daemons that aren't compiled from > source. I compile just about everything from source if given the > opportunity. In that case, use the latest PostgreSQL 7.4.x. It's much better than the 7.3.x series (faster, and better at reclaiming space during a VACUUM.) > Well, anything is better than RH9. This is the 4th RH9 box I've set up in > as many months and I'm left wondering if the RH engineers actually woke up > in the morning and thought to themselves "Where can we randomly put > libraries today and how many oddball things can we statically link to > them?" Fedora Core 1's actually not too bad. I have Gentoo on a laptop, but compiling *everything* from source pretty soon gets tiresome. Regards, David. ___ Visit http://www.mimedefang.org and http://www.canit.ca MIMEDefang mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
