Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[lists]

Sun, 25 Feb 2018 18:33:07 -0700 "Constantine A. Murenin"

> On 25 February 2018 at 12:48, Ingo Schwarze  wrote:
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > Martin Schroeder wrote on Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 08:00:34PM +0100:  
> >> 2018-02-25 18:29 GMT+01:00 Ingo Schwarze :  
> >  
> >>> And no, i'm not going to create an account on some
> >>> random site just for such a petty thing.  
> >  
> >> Stackoverflow is "some random website". :-)  
> >
> > You can say that again, I'm dead serious.
> >
> > I have literally spent years working on documentation, and i shall
> > be giving my seventh presentation on that topic during an international
> > BSD conference at BSDCan in Ottawa, June 8 or 9 this year, so i
> > kind of know what i'm talking about.
> >
> > Stackoverflow is definitely not among the things you should consider
> > or look at when you want to understand how stuff works, when you
> > are trying to solve a problem, or when you want to help people to
> > use software more efficiently.  
> 
> Unfortunately, StackOverflow is a very difficult-to-avoid site
> nowadays, unless you can easily live without using Google for your
> tech-related questions, either.

Hi there,

I disagree completely!!!  Easily and best avoided all areas.  Period.
We have all resources in the OpenBSD system included.  End of promos.

> However, I completely agree with the sentiment that the site is quite
> toxic, and I have 10k+ on StackOverflow and 30k+ on the whole
> StackExchange network, so I know a thing or two about it.

Why should we all read the promos over and over?  They're irrelevant.
I just deleted more marketing material from your reply, I dislike it.

[..snipped some irrelevant material..]

> So, I completely agree with Ingo that noone should be promoting
> StackOverflow and StackExchange et al, especially in the open-source
> communities,

And you still did it.  Now, convince us again we really should care..
We could all be wasting our time reading ads on some random web site.

[..snipped more unrequested adverts..]
> 
> Cheers,
> Constantine.
> http://cm.su/

Don't tell us we should use search engines to visit third party sites
instead of the actual original sources in software and documentation.

I will NEVER visit promoted web sites instead of the OpenBSD website.
This is working AGAINST the promoted material, it is getting nowhere.

I'll quote myself again, there are two types of marketeers:  ones who
sell their own work, and then these who do other peoples shitty work.

All the hours career advancing promotional work could have been work.

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Philipp Buehler]

Am 26.02.2018 02:33 schrieb Constantine A. Murenin:

I recently got 10k on StackOverflow, which is the minimum reputation
required to see not just any deleted stuff, but even your own deleted
questions and answers; and the sheer volume of my own questions and
answers that got deleted (some of which was done automatically based
on rather arbitrary "metrics" without any human intervention) is
simply mind boggling — `deleted:1` returns 36 results (questions
and/or answers), which at 259 A + 105 Q in my profile, represents
nearly 10% of my Qs and As!  I've used the site for years, and knew
some of my stuff was gone, but I was nonetheless totally surprised and
shocked to see just how much of it was deleted and hidden from me
until 10k!


Wow, just wow. Thanks for that insight.
Not that I was very fond of it previously (more like Ingo says..), but 
this

is stunning.

The in-band documentation must be helpful in itself. A reachout to a
community should be for rather complicated stuff or concepts.

Doing sysadmin longer than google exists: I know the value of good
docs :-)

ciao
--
pb

Re: vmctl

[Mike Larkin]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 09:12:24PM -0300, Friedrich Locke wrote:
> Is openbsd vm a container ?
> 
> Thanks for explanation.
> 
> 
> Livre
> de vírus. www.avast.com
> .
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

no

Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Constantine A. Murenin]

On 25 February 2018 at 12:48, Ingo Schwarze  wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> Martin Schroeder wrote on Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 08:00:34PM +0100:
>> 2018-02-25 18:29 GMT+01:00 Ingo Schwarze :
>
>>> And no, i'm not going to create an account on some
>>> random site just for such a petty thing.
>
>> Stackoverflow is "some random website". :-)
>
> You can say that again, I'm dead serious.
>
> I have literally spent years working on documentation, and i shall
> be giving my seventh presentation on that topic during an international
> BSD conference at BSDCan in Ottawa, June 8 or 9 this year, so i
> kind of know what i'm talking about.
>
> Stackoverflow is definitely not among the things you should consider
> or look at when you want to understand how stuff works, when you
> are trying to solve a problem, or when you want to help people to
> use software more efficiently.

Unfortunately, StackOverflow is a very difficult-to-avoid site
nowadays, unless you can easily live without using Google for your
tech-related questions, either.

However, I completely agree with the sentiment that the site is quite
toxic, and I have 10k+ on StackOverflow and 30k+ on the whole
StackExchange network, so I know a thing or two about it.

The StackOverflow company routinely deletes your comments, questions
and answers, often for very superficial reasons (including
automatically based on metrics) and without any regard to the
individual quality thereof, and effectively without you having any
control over the explicitly human-generated textual data that you
entrust them with.  (Most folks don't even know this, until they're
already hooked and their questions/comments/answers are gone and
unfetchable.)

Who likes their own well-articulated notes randomly deleted for
superficial reasons behind their backs?  Why not let you see what got
deleted, so you can decide whether it's worth reposting in another
venue?

I recently got 10k on StackOverflow, which is the minimum reputation
required to see not just any deleted stuff, but even your own deleted
questions and answers; and the sheer volume of my own questions and
answers that got deleted (some of which was done automatically based
on rather arbitrary "metrics" without any human intervention) is
simply mind boggling — `deleted:1` returns 36 results (questions
and/or answers), which at 259 A + 105 Q in my profile, represents
nearly 10% of my Qs and As!  I've used the site for years, and knew
some of my stuff was gone, but I was nonetheless totally surprised and
shocked to see just how much of it was deleted and hidden from me
until 10k!

Effectively, every 10th answer or question just gets wiped out without
a trace (until/unless you're a mod or have 10k+ rep), does that sound
OK to you?!  And since they keep the scoring and feature activation
separate for each of their sites, some of my own Qs and As on the
other StackExchange sites in the network are still unavailable to me
even at this stage.  (Meanwhile, various throwaway, bogus, incomplete
and duplicate questions and spam answers from years ago still remain
on their sites; and flagging any of these is basically a gamble and
often results in absolutely no action.)

So, I completely agree with Ingo that noone should be promoting
StackOverflow and StackExchange et al, especially in the open-source
communities, at least until the above model where withholding your own
contributions from your own self is the modus operandi at
StackExchange/StackOverflow company.  Personally, even though I still
participate in SO/SE, I 100% boycotted their new "documentation"
effort, not contributing a single article to it, IIRC (LOL, I just
checked, and they did shut it down — apparently, I must have been not
the only one who didn't like the idea).

Cheers,
Constantine.
http://cm.su/

>
> Yours,
>   Ingo
>
>> Thanks. YMMD.

vmctl

[Friedrich Locke]

Is openbsd vm a container ?

Thanks for explanation.


Livre
de vírus. www.avast.com
.
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi Martin,

Martin Schroeder wrote on Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 08:00:34PM +0100:
> 2018-02-25 18:29 GMT+01:00 Ingo Schwarze :

>> And no, i'm not going to create an account on some
>> random site just for such a petty thing.

> Stackoverflow is "some random website". :-)

You can say that again, I'm dead serious.

I have literally spent years working on documentation, and i shall
be giving my seventh presentation on that topic during an international
BSD conference at BSDCan in Ottawa, June 8 or 9 this year, so i
kind of know what i'm talking about.

Stackoverflow is definitely not among the things you should consider
or look at when you want to understand how stuff works, when you
are trying to solve a problem, or when you want to help people to
use software more efficiently.

Yours,
  Ingo

> Thanks. YMMD.

Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Martin Schröder]

2018-02-25 18:29 GMT+01:00 Ingo Schwarze :
>  And no, i'm not going to create an account on some
> random site just for such a petty thing.

Stackoverflow is "some random website". :-)

Thanks. YMMD.

Best
Martin

Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Ingo Schwarze]

Oh, and by the way, please stop promoting Stackexchange.
That is doing OpenBSD users a disservice.

Trying to find help regarding OpenBSD on Stackexchange
is an utterly stupid idea.

Re: UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi,

Hess THR wrote on Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 06:01:11PM +0100:

> already got 2 upvotes, 4 more needed to be on the main page: 
> https://unix.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4801/277781
> If anyone wants to upvote it :)

As discussed previously on this list, I tried to give it a downvote,
but couldn't because that site appears to require login before you
can use it.  And no, i'm not going to create an account on some
random site just for such a petty thing.

Yours,
  Ingo

-- 
Ingo Schwarze 
http://www.openbsd.org/   
http://mdocml.bsd.lv/ 

UNIX Stackexchange - Community Promotion Ads - 2018

[Hess THR]

Hello, 

already got 2 upvotes, 4 more needed to be on the main page: 

https://unix.meta.stackexchange.com/a/4801/277781

If anyone wants to upvote it :)

Re: LTE with PPP: timeout sending Config-Requests

[Lars Herbach]

2018-02-25 10:00 GMT+01:00 Stuart Henderson :
>> Feb 24 22:50:09 zipper pppd[83506]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/cuaU0
>
> Do you have other serial devices from this, or just cuaU0? Try others if you
> have them.

I do have cuaU0 - 3 but trying the other ones gives me:
Failed to open /dev/cuaU2: Device not configured

>> Sadly pppd debug and chat -v are not as verbose as I'd like them to be
>> but I already removed GRE device support from the kernel and that did
>> not help. Same results also with firmware upgrades, USB2/3 ports and
>> pretty much everything else I could think of.
>
> I don't see what this would have to do with gre.

I've read in another post that in OpenBSD the protocol number of PPP is
also used for GRE which might cause trouble.

>> crtscts
>
> I'd also try nocrtscts.

That did not change anything.

Re: LTE with PPP: timeout sending Config-Requests

[Stuart Henderson]

On 2018-02-24, Lars Herbach  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm currently trying to set up a router machine using a LTE connection
> with a Huawei E3372 LTE stick. I recently upgraded my machine to
> -current and the stick is reconized as an umsm device.
>
> But pppd does have issues connecting:
> Feb 24 22:50:01 zipper pppd[83506]: pppd 2.3.5 started by lars, uid 0
> Feb 24 22:50:09 zipper pppd[83506]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/cuaU0

Do you have other serial devices from this, or just cuaU0? Try others if you
have them.

> Sadly pppd debug and chat -v are not as verbose as I'd like them to be
> but I already removed GRE device support from the kernel and that did
> not help. Same results also with firmware upgrades, USB2/3 ports and
> pretty much everything else I could think of.

I don't see what this would have to do with gre.

> If there are any pointers you could give, I'd appreciate it.
>
>==> /etc/ppp/peers/telekom
> cuaU0
> crtscts

I'd also try nocrtscts.