Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[andrew fabbro]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:36 AM Frank Beuth  wrote:

> “It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer
> developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch
> to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail
> client which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other
> things to it, so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to
> entry that’s pretty high for somebody who may want to be a first-time
> contributor.”"
>

If someone struggles to send a plain-text email, what are the odds their
OpenBSD patch is going to be accepted...

-- 
andrew fabbro
and...@fabbro.org

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Constantine A. Murenin]

On 2020-W35-3 08:28 +, Frank Beuth wrote:

"Linux kernel development  which is driven by plain-text email
discussion  needs better or alternative collaborative tooling "to
bring in new contributors and maintain and sustain Linux in the
future," says Sarah Novotny, Microsoft's representative on the Linux
Foundation board.

Said tooling could be "a text-based, email-based patch system that
can then also be represented in a way that developers who have grown
up in the last five or ten years are more familiar with," she added.

...

Should it migrate toward something more like, say, issues and pull
requests on the Microsoft-owned GitHub? ???I???m not saying that
there will be a move in any time that I can see  my crystal ball???s
broken  but I do think there needs to be expansions in the way
people can enter that workflow,??? said Novotny.

???It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some
newer developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted
a patch to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely
new mail client which didn???t mangle his email message to HTML-ise
or do other things to it, so he could even make that one patch.
That???s a barrier to entry that???s pretty high for somebody who
may want to be a first-time contributor.???"

https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/


OMG, LOL!

Why OpenBSD is to blame when Gmail -- after so many years -- still 
doesn't have proper support for sending text-based attachments 
the right way?


Or the ability to include patches in message body, 
without tabs being mangled into spaces?


Or maybe we now have to switch from tabs to spaces in style(9) 
and all our code, because buggy software written in the last 
Z years cannot support tabs properly?


My prof at the uni used to say:  Chemistry Saves Lives.  The joke 
goes is that it's a mandatory requirement for the nursing major, so, 
seeding out those incapable of comprehension is not a bad thing. (TM)


Hey, guess what?!  I, too, had to learn how to send mail in a way 
to not have the patches mangled.  It's not rocket science.  
It's kind of the basic knowledge when kernel hacking is at stake.


Maybe if there were minimum qualifications to be a software 
developer nowadays, we wouldn't have dataloss incidents like 
the Adobe Lightroom iOS App Update deleting all the photos 
from your phone, without you the end user having any recourse.


C.

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Umgeher Torgersen]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 04:17:48PM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
> On 8/26/20 3:08 PM, Chris Bennett wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 12:28:00PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >> Text-only was great in 1985. 
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > And it's still pretty badass in 2020.
> > I really love the way company networks are brought down by a little
> > helpful Javascript in an HTML email.
> 
> I truly HATE HTML emails.
> 
> Anyone that needs HTML emails really have nothing interesting to say as
> it add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation and is useless.
> 
> I would gladly live in 1985 for ever if that mean I don't have to deal
> with the bulky crap of HTML emails.

\ o /

> 
> Amen!
> 
> Daniel
> 

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Aaron Mason]

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 7:27 AM Chris Bennett
 wrote:
>
> I was recently told by a youngster that I was a total idiot for working
> my way through the new CSS to understand it well. I needed to go
> straight over to some Framework that assumes I am stupid, which I
> would be if I didn't take the time to understand what I'm really
> accomplishing.
>

This.  So many projects I've picked up from others use jQuery like
it's somehow a requirement to do anything, when really it just makes
bashing out crappy code faster (something something premature
optimisation) - I refuse to use it partly for that reason, mostly
because I fail to see the benefit in lugging around a sizeable
framework when I intend to use a tiny part of it (never chop down a
tree when just the branch will do - old Aussie proverb) that can
easily be done in vanilla JS.

Someone posted on Quora about a nasty trick they cooked up for a
painful tester to essentially gaslight him (it would randomly resize
elements on the web page, and this guy would claim that everything was
fine on his end and then turn it off before he went over to look at
it) and it was jQuery all the way - with minimal effort I ported it to
vanilla JS.  It's not that hard.

Also, I use gmail with an old account that got overtaken by spam that
I use for mailing lists as well, and it handles patches just fine.
Never been an issue.

-- 
Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict
I've taken my software vows - for beta or for worse

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Luke A. Call]

On 08-26 21:47, Pierre-Philipp Braun wrote:
> > Can't get your email to go plain text, attachments work.
> > If they don't, why not change providers?
> > It's a bit of work, but almost anyone can setup their own email server
> > for next to nearly free.
> 
> That is not as easy as it was, mainly because of IP reputation.  If you have
> your own MX and outbound MTA/MSA you will have to go through painful
> processes of getting out of blacklists, and even then your outgoing messages
> might end-up in users' spambox.  The game has changed, and it's for us
> old-timers that life is rough, already.
 
Maybe I am missing the point, but one can change providers without
having to manage a mail server, for example just having their own domain
(or not) at a provider that manages the email servers, such as with pair.com 
(just
a content user, many conveniences and flexibility, and I feel ~"enough"
control over my email, but they run the servers, I can set various kinds
of rules or DKIM things etc if memory serves, but don't have to), and
maybe pobox.com (but it has been a long time since I used pobox), and I
imagine others.

Luke Call

Re: routing ipv6 over wireguard

[Alarig Le Lay]

Hi,

On Tue 25 Aug 2020 15:27:27 GMT, Aisha Tammy wrote:
> (peer A)$ tcpdump -inet6 -i vio0 icmp6
> 15:23:04.918459 fe80::fc00:2ff:feee:5248 > ff02::1:ff42:6: icmp6:
> neighbor sol: who has 2001:19f0:5:5cd5::6942:6
> 
> (a lot of such lines)

It seems that you have been provided a *connected* /64, so the router
tried to do NDP for your peer, which isn’t possible because the peer
isn’t on the same L2.

You have ask your provider to *route* you a range. Then, it will be your
VM that will manage it.

-- 
Alarig

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Sean Kamath]

> On Aug 26, 2020, at 12:08, Chris Bennett  
> wrote:
> 
> Can't get your email to go plain text, attachments work.
> If they don't, why not change providers?
> It's a bit of work, but almost anyone can setup their own email server
> for next to nearly free.

I encourage everyone to do this, but they should have their eyes open that 
there *is* a cost in time (maintenance, updates, etc).  Plus dealing with 
random places blocking you for no reason (I literally had one place tell me 
“everyone uses google, why don’t you?”).

Also, the sending of the mail, as far as I understand, is basically identical 
for all the providers — it’s the mail client that formats the messages (though 
sometimes I craft messages and deliver them to OpenSMTPD directly without a 
“client” per se).

And THAT is one of the biggest problems.

I use Apple Mail (don’t hate on me, it’s what I use).  One change they recently 
made was to remove the option of showing the paintext version of an email 
instead of the HTML version.  Now I have no choice, and if I *really* want to 
see the plaintext message, I have to view source.  This is not a rant against 
Apple (and for the love of god, don’t turn it into one), but rather a rant 
against all the “providers” who are trying to get everyone to use their 
“product” and damn the consequences of someone attaching 50MB of files/images 
in their messages, that’s not *their* problem (and fsck the infrastructure!).

It’s screaming into the wind to complain.  I used to rail against the bloat of 
browsers, and now you can run entire emulators in them.  They’re HUGE.  They do 
everything.

Still.  Run your own email server.  You’ll learn a LOT!

Sean

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen]

> 
> “It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer 
> developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch to 
> OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail client 
> which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other things to it, 
> so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to entry that’s pretty 
> high for somebody who may want to be a first-time contributor.”"
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/
> 

Wouldn’t even the Outlooks, gmails and fruity things and their ilk keep the 
patch in a pristine state if it was added to the message as an attachment?

I know Apple mail at least does weird stuff including its own version of 
autocarrot behind your back, but surely attachments would be kept intact?

Sort of related, I dust off an exchange/outlook rant of mine from a little 
while back (most of it still applies, unfortunately): 
https://bsdly.blogspot.com/2011/02/problem-isnt-email-its-microsoft.html 


All the best,

—
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.






signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Chris Bennett]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 09:47:24PM +0200, Pierre-Philipp Braun wrote:
> > Can't get your email to go plain text, attachments work.
> > If they don't, why not change providers?
> > It's a bit of work, but almost anyone can setup their own email server
> > for next to nearly free.
> 
> That is not as easy as it was, mainly because of IP reputation.  If you have
> your own MX and outbound MTA/MSA you will have to go through painful
> processes of getting out of blacklists, and even then your outgoing messages
> might end-up in users' spambox.  The game has changed, and it's for us
> old-timers that life is rough, already.

Bare metal servers often have cheap lower end servers. Yes, if it's not
in the cloud, some people think they aren't in the latest fad.

I've yet to end up on any blacklist except SpamRats which dropping a
message on their form page instantly clears up the problem. That is
usually because of some little thing that hasn't propagated yet thorugh
DNS.

Spam boxes are no longer very useful. Censorship is in full swing.
If I were to mention the last name of the founder of Windows, this email
would immediately go into the spam box of places like gmail.
If I were to send you an HTML email with that word in the text, same
thing.

Right now, us oldtimers are the only ones with much fundamental
knowledge and experience.

I was recently told by a youngster that I was a total idiot for working
my way through the new CSS to understand it well. I needed to go
straight over to some Framework that assumes I am stupid, which I
would be if I didn't take the time to understand what I'm really
accomplishing.

Setting up an email server for strictly personal use is not that big a
deal. For many users in a commercial setting, much harder.

All IPs can get blacklisted. Bad IPs, change ISP's. One month to set
things up and transfer over to a new server. Once everything is working,
drop the crappy corporate email service. No big rush.

My thoughts, for whatever they are worth.

Chris Bennett

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Pierre-Philipp Braun]

Can't get your email to go plain text, attachments work.
If they don't, why not change providers?
It's a bit of work, but almost anyone can setup their own email server
for next to nearly free.


That is not as easy as it was, mainly because of IP reputation.  If you 
have your own MX and outbound MTA/MSA you will have to go through 
painful processes of getting out of blacklists, and even then your 
outgoing messages might end-up in users' spambox.  The game has changed, 
and it's for us old-timers that life is rough, already.

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Daniel Ouellet]

On 8/26/20 3:08 PM, Chris Bennett wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 12:28:00PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Text-only was great in 1985. 
>>
>>
> 
> And it's still pretty badass in 2020.
> I really love the way company networks are brought down by a little
> helpful Javascript in an HTML email.

I truly HATE HTML emails.

Anyone that needs HTML emails really have nothing interesting to say as
it add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation and is useless.

I would gladly live in 1985 for ever if that mean I don't have to deal
with the bulky crap of HTML emails.

Amen!

Daniel

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Chris Bennett]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 12:28:00PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Text-only was great in 1985. 
> 
> 

And it's still pretty badass in 2020.
I really love the way company networks are brought down by a little
helpful Javascript in an HTML email.

Can't get your email to go plain text, attachments work.
If they don't, why not change providers?
It's a bit of work, but almost anyone can setup their own email server
for next to nearly free.

Chris Bennett

> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "Frank Beuth"  
> To: misc@openbsd.org 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 3:28:50 AM 
> Subject: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source 
> 
> "Linux kernel development which is driven by plain-text email 
> discussion needs better or alternative collaborative tooling "to bring 
> in new contributors and maintain and sustain Linux in the future," says 
> Sarah Novotny, Microsoft's representative on the Linux Foundation board. 
> 
> Said tooling could be "a text-based, email-based patch system that can 
> then also be represented in a way that developers who have grown up in 
> the last five or ten years are more familiar with," she added. 
> 
> ... 
> 
> Should it migrate toward something more like, say, issues and pull 
> requests on the Microsoft-owned GitHub? “I’m not saying that there will 
> be a move in any time that I can see my crystal ball’s broken but I do 
> think there needs to be expansions in the way people can enter that 
> workflow,” said Novotny. 
> 
> “It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer 
> developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch 
> to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail 
> client which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other 
> things to it, so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to 
> entry that’s pretty high for somebody who may want to be a first-time 
> contributor.”" 
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/ 
> 
> 

Re: Installing sets from install67.fs on USB stick

[Maurice McCarthy]

I'm talking shite. Ignore all.

Re: Installing sets from install67.fs on USB stick

[Maurice McCarthy]

The installation ramdisk is deliberately small therefore not all
devices are pre-created.

You probably need to drop to a shell and

# cd /dev
# /dev/MAKEDEV sd2

Hopefully your 2nd usb device will be sd2. Check dmesg to be sure.

Good luck

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Mike Hammett]

Text-only was great in 1985. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Frank Beuth"  
To: misc@openbsd.org 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 3:28:50 AM 
Subject: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source 

"Linux kernel development which is driven by plain-text email 
discussion needs better or alternative collaborative tooling "to bring 
in new contributors and maintain and sustain Linux in the future," says 
Sarah Novotny, Microsoft's representative on the Linux Foundation board. 

Said tooling could be "a text-based, email-based patch system that can 
then also be represented in a way that developers who have grown up in 
the last five or ten years are more familiar with," she added. 

... 

Should it migrate toward something more like, say, issues and pull 
requests on the Microsoft-owned GitHub? “I’m not saying that there will 
be a move in any time that I can see my crystal ball’s broken but I do 
think there needs to be expansions in the way people can enter that 
workflow,” said Novotny. 

“It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer 
developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch 
to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail 
client which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other 
things to it, so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to 
entry that’s pretty high for somebody who may want to be a first-time 
contributor.”" 

https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/ 

Installing sets from install67.fs on USB stick

[Julian Smith]

I've just run into a slightly confusing situation during an install
using install67.fs on a USB stick, and wondered whether it might be
worth adding something to http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html
"Installation Guide " to clarify what to do.

I was installing onto a second 32 GB USB stick on a Lenovo x220.

At the "Let's install the sets!" stage, the installer asks:

Location of sets? (disk http nfs or 'done') [http]

At this stage networking was not working due to missing firmware, so i
entered "disk" to use the sets from install67.fs on the install USB
stick.

Then it asks:

Is the disk partition already mounted? [yes]

I wasn't sure about the correct answer here. It turns out that you need
to say "no".

But it then lists the disk on which it is installing OpenBSD
(containing the partitions that were created by the installer earlier):

Available disks are: sd0.

I eventually got things to work by unplugging and re-plugging the USB
install stick before answering "no" to "Is the disk partition already
mounted? [yes]". This feels slightly unsafe of course, but presumably
the installer has copied everything into the ramdisk kernel in memory by
this point?

Thereafter, things worked fine:

Available disks are: sd0 sd1.
Which disk contains the install media? (or 'done') [sd1]
a: 928768 [...]
i: 960 [...]
Available sd1 partitions are: a i
Which sd1 partition has the install sets? (or 'done') [a]
Pathname to the sets? (or 'done') [6.7/amd64]

And the sets were found and installed with no further problems.


Would it be worth me coming up with some text to add to
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html explaining this? Or maybe my
installing onto a second USB stick is unusual and might have caused the
issue?


Thanks,

- Jules

-- 
http://op59.net

Re: fido library

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi Mihai,

besides, while it is often useful to bear with newbies,
a user who is no longer a bloody beginner at using computers can
be expected to type simple commands without asking for help, e.g.

   $ cd /usr/src/
   $ find . -name 'Makefile*' -exec grep lfido {} \; -print
  LDADD+= -lfido2 -lcbor -lusbhid
  ./regress/usr.bin/ssh/misc/kexfuzz/Makefile
  LDADD+= -lfido2 -lcbor -lusbhid
  ./regress/usr.bin/ssh/unittests/Makefile.inc
  LDADD+= -lfido2 -lcbor -lusbhid
  ./usr.bin/ssh/ssh-sk-helper/Makefile

   $ man -k fido -a \( sec=1 sec=8 \)   
  ssh-sk-helper(8) - OpenSSH helper for FIDO authenticator support

   $ man ssh-sk-helper | sed '/^D/q'
  SSH-SK-HELPER(8) System Manager's ManualSSH-SK-HELPER(8)

  NAME
 ssh-sk-helper  OpenSSH helper for FIDO authenticator support

  SYNOPSIS
 ssh-sk-helper [-v]

  DESCRIPTION

Yours,
  Ingo

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Ian Darwin]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 02:37:24AM -0700, Greg Thomas wrote:
> "... he had to set up an entirely new mail client which didn’t mangle his
> email message to HTML-ise... That’s a barrier to entry that’s pretty
> high..."
> 
> Wow.  Life's rough.

Surely easier than RTFMing to find out how to send plain-text email
in the existing client.
 
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:31 AM Frank Beuth  wrote:
> 
> > "Linux kernel development  which is driven by plain-text email
> > discussion  needs better or alternative collaborative tooling "to bring
> > in new contributors and maintain and sustain Linux in the future," says
> > Sarah Novotny, Microsoft's representative on the Linux Foundation board.
> >
> > Said tooling could be "a text-based, email-based patch system that can
> > then also be represented in a way that developers who have grown up in
> > the last five or ten years are more familiar with," she added.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Should it migrate toward something more like, say, issues and pull
> > requests on the Microsoft-owned GitHub? “I’m not saying that there will
> > be a move in any time that I can see  my crystal ball’s broken  but I do
> > think there needs to be expansions in the way people can enter that
> > workflow,” said Novotny.
> >
> > “It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer
> > developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch
> > to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail
> > client which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other
> > things to it, so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to
> > entry that’s pretty high for somebody who may want to be a first-time
> > contributor.”"
> >
> > https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/
> >
> >

Re: fido library

[Theo de Raadt]

I am not in a bad mood.

I am calling out abuse of this mailing list.

So OpenBSD change ABI often during the development process.  This is
documented all over the place, it is one of the major things this
project is known for.

If each time an ABI change happens, it results in a bunch of people
needing to mail about their anguish, then we have a problem.

So I am telling you very clearly in very small words, and also others
who might be compelled to do the same thing:

GROW UP, or entirely cease using our ABI-changing-often development
snapshots.

then you won't need to send mails which demonstrate you don't get it.


Mihai Popescu  wrote:

> Obviously I am not complaining. Just asked.
> Obviously I found you in the bad mood.
> I'm in bad mood too, but not because bad sync of snapshots. Again, just 
> asking.
> 
> Thank you 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 19:33 Theo de Raadt  wrote:
> 
>  You are obviously complaining about ABI mismatch between base and ports,
>  when using in -current snapshots.
> 
>  Let me be honest.  Complaining about that is immature.  It is 100% FAQ
>  and expected behaviour for following snapshots.  People who use snapshots
>  are expected to accept the behaviour, and wait.
> 
>  This is not new.
> 
>  So please switch to a RELEASE, or use another operating system, or
>  figure your shit out.
> 
>  Mihai Popescu  wrote:
> 
>  > Hello,
>  > 
>  > Out of curiosity, what is fido library used for since it changes _a lot_
>  > breaking sync between base and ports in snapshots?
>  > 
>  > Thanks
> 

Re: fido library

[Mihai Popescu]

Obviously I am not complaining. Just asked.
Obviously I found you in the bad mood.
I'm in bad mood too, but not because bad sync of snapshots. Again, just
asking.

Thank you

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 19:33 Theo de Raadt  wrote:

> You are obviously complaining about ABI mismatch between base and ports,
> when using in -current snapshots.
>
> Let me be honest.  Complaining about that is immature.  It is 100% FAQ
> and expected behaviour for following snapshots.  People who use snapshots
> are expected to accept the behaviour, and wait.
>
> This is not new.
>
> So please switch to a RELEASE, or use another operating system, or
> figure your shit out.
>
>
> Mihai Popescu  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Out of curiosity, what is fido library used for since it changes _a lot_
> > breaking sync between base and ports in snapshots?
> >
> > Thanks
>

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[James Huddle]

She never really says how old her "partner" is.
Perhaps he is a developer who has literally "...grown up in the
last five or ten years..."

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 9:50 AM Rafael Possamai  wrote:

> >- Original message -
> >From: Greg Thomas 
> >
> >"... he had to set up an entirely new mail client which didn’t mangle his
> >email message to HTML-ise... That’s a barrier to entry that’s pretty
> >high..."
> >
> >Wow.  Life's rough.
>
> Most desktop/web email clients I've ever used have plain-text mode for
> composing.
>
>

Re: fido library

[Theo de Raadt]

You are obviously complaining about ABI mismatch between base and ports,
when using in -current snapshots.

Let me be honest.  Complaining about that is immature.  It is 100% FAQ
and expected behaviour for following snapshots.  People who use snapshots
are expected to accept the behaviour, and wait.

This is not new.

So please switch to a RELEASE, or use another operating system, or
figure your shit out.


Mihai Popescu  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is fido library used for since it changes _a lot_
> breaking sync between base and ports in snapshots?
> 
> Thanks

fido library

[Mihai Popescu]

Hello,

Out of curiosity, what is fido library used for since it changes _a lot_
breaking sync between base and ports in snapshots?

Thanks

Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Rafael Possamai]

>- Original message -
>From: Greg Thomas 
>
>"... he had to set up an entirely new mail client which didn’t mangle his
>email message to HTML-ise... That’s a barrier to entry that’s pretty
>high..."
>
>Wow.  Life's rough.

Most desktop/web email clients I've ever used have plain-text mode for 
composing. 

Re: email attachments in firefox

[Oriol Demaria]

Well I think if this would be the case maybe chromium should be in the 
core OS image not in ports or Firefox removed from ports, right? But I 
don't think is the case. Chromium might have better architecture 
regarding security, but for many privacy is as important as security or 
maybe even more if what we are defending from are very hard to exploit 
vulnerabilities, that would need to target an OS OpenBSD which is not 
that widespread.


Chromium as far as I know in the past from people that analysed it's 
traffic was making async calls to google DNS. Not sure if is longer the 
case, but if it wasn't maybe a project like Iridium wouldn't exist.


https://github.com/iridium-browser/tracker/wiki/Differences-between-Iridium-and-Chromium

Regards,

---
Oriol Demaria
Systems Administrator
2FFED630C16E4FF8

On 24/08/2020 13:50, Mihai Popescu wrote:
But sometimes, the file selection will offer the content of /tmp and 
you

have no way of making it something else.

Many times when Firefox jumped in discussions, it was said a clear
statement: use Chromium. You are safer and supported. You choose 
something

else, you are on your own <- multiple times said, again and again.


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Re: Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Greg Thomas]

"... he had to set up an entirely new mail client which didn’t mangle his
email message to HTML-ise... That’s a barrier to entry that’s pretty
high..."

Wow.  Life's rough.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:31 AM Frank Beuth  wrote:

> "Linux kernel development  which is driven by plain-text email
> discussion  needs better or alternative collaborative tooling "to bring
> in new contributors and maintain and sustain Linux in the future," says
> Sarah Novotny, Microsoft's representative on the Linux Foundation board.
>
> Said tooling could be "a text-based, email-based patch system that can
> then also be represented in a way that developers who have grown up in
> the last five or ten years are more familiar with," she added.
>
> ...
>
> Should it migrate toward something more like, say, issues and pull
> requests on the Microsoft-owned GitHub? “I’m not saying that there will
> be a move in any time that I can see  my crystal ball’s broken  but I do
> think there needs to be expansions in the way people can enter that
> workflow,” said Novotny.
>
> “It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer
> developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch
> to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail
> client which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other
> things to it, so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to
> entry that’s pretty high for somebody who may want to be a first-time
> contributor.”"
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/
>
>

Microsoft's war on plain text email in open source

[Frank Beuth]

"Linux kernel development  which is driven by plain-text email 
discussion  needs better or alternative collaborative tooling "to bring 
in new contributors and maintain and sustain Linux in the future," says 
Sarah Novotny, Microsoft's representative on the Linux Foundation board.


Said tooling could be "a text-based, email-based patch system that can 
then also be represented in a way that developers who have grown up in 
the last five or ten years are more familiar with," she added.


...

Should it migrate toward something more like, say, issues and pull 
requests on the Microsoft-owned GitHub? “I’m not saying that there will 
be a move in any time that I can see  my crystal ball’s broken  but I do 
think there needs to be expansions in the way people can enter that 
workflow,” said Novotny.


“It is a fairly specific workflow that is a challenge for some newer 
developers to engage with. As an example, my partner submitted a patch 
to OpenBSD a few weeks ago, and he had to set up an entirely new mail 
client which didn’t mangle his email message to HTML-ise or do other 
things to it, so he could even make that one patch. That’s a barrier to 
entry that’s pretty high for somebody who may want to be a first-time 
contributor.”"


https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/25/linux_kernel_email/