Re: 5.4 on a ThinkPad 760EL
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 08:39:45PM -0800, Constantine A. Murenin wrote: > On 22 December 2013 14:45, Chris Bee wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 06:40:28PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > >> > I'm trying to install 5.4 on an old ThinkPad 760EL and running into some > >> > trouble, probably due to how little RAM it has - 16 MB. > >> [...] > >> > I have read INSTALL.i386 and > >> > it says that I need at least 32 MB of RAM for 5.4. > >> [...] > >> > Apologies if there is something obvious I should be doing. > >> > >> The obvious thing you should do is to add more memory to this system. > >> The 5.4 i386 GENERIC kernel is huge and eats more than half the physical > >> memory, and then the data structures it creates aren't free. There is > >> basically no free memory for userland to run, and your system is > >> swap-bound, hence horribly slow, as you have noticed. > >> > >> Your available options are: > >> - run an old release, which fits in 16MB. I doubt anything >= 4.5 will > >> fit in 16MB, so you'd use a 5+ years old, unsupported, release. > >> - build a stripped-down kernel on another 5.4 system and run it on your > >> ThinkPad. This ought to work, but your kernel will not be supported, > >> so if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. > >> - add more memory to your system. Really. It will help. Can't you see > >> your laptop looking at you with puppy dog eyes? > >> - get a beefier laptop. Anything with more memory will do. > >> > >> Miod > > > > I have installed 4.0 and while it does work, even such an old release is > > barely usable. I'm not too keen on the idea of using such unsupported, > > possibly unstable software on my laptop, anyway. I suppose the only > > option is to buy a newer laptop, like you said. There are plenty of good > > suggestions floating around, most of which can be had for tens of > > dollars on eBay. OpenBSD is getting so bloated these days, it requires > > so much RAM :) > > There's an old tool called `dmassage` (in ports since 3.9) that may > offer some help in building a smaller kernel for your situation. > > http://ports.su/sysutils/dmassage > > Cheers, > Constantine. Very interesting, this will come in handy. I managed to find a 16 MB RAM module, bringing my RAM total to 32 MB. Installed 5.4 and boots fine, no problems. X doesn't work due to a lack of RAM causing swapping (which slows the laptop greatly), but maybe dmassage will help get rid of some device drivers and help the situation. Thanks for your help. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: 5.4 on a ThinkPad 760EL
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:51:53AM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Chris Bee wrote: > >On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 06:40:28PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > >> > >>The obvious thing you should do is to add more memory to this system. > >>The 5.4 i386 GENERIC kernel is huge and eats more than half the physical > >>memory, and then the data structures it creates aren't free. There is > >>basically no free memory for userland to run, and your system is > >>swap-bound, hence horribly slow, as you have noticed. > >> > >>Your available options are: > >>- run an old release, which fits in 16MB. I doubt anything >= 4.5 will > >> fit in 16MB, so you'd use a 5+ years old, unsupported, release. > >>- build a stripped-down kernel on another 5.4 system and run it on your > >> ThinkPad. This ought to work, but your kernel will not be supported, > >> so if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. > >>- add more memory to your system. Really. It will help. Can't you see > >> your laptop looking at you with puppy dog eyes? > >>- get a beefier laptop. Anything with more memory will do. > >> > >>Miod > >I have installed 4.0 and while it does work, even such an old release is > >barely usable. I'm not too keen on the idea of using such unsupported, > >possibly unstable software on my laptop, anyway. I suppose the only > >option is to buy a newer laptop, like you said. There are plenty of good > >suggestions floating around, most of which can be had for tens of > >dollars on eBay. OpenBSD is getting so bloated these days, it requires > >so much RAM :) > > > Right :) well, it is for fun of course. I too am playing with NetBSD > on a ThinkPad 600E and OpenBSD on an Omnibook 800. > > You have a fine machine, why let it get dust? those old boxen have > sometimes a charme newer don't have, a solid feel and for example > older ThinkPads a marvellous keyboard. I use mine to hack a bit and > to telnet/ssh around.. > >... > > My OmniBook has 32MB with OpenBSD 5.4 "generic" is usable > command-line, however while starting Xorg now works, it is unusable, > totally swap-bound. > >... > > Riccardo After some searching around on eBay, I'm surprised to find that there is lots of old RAM floating around. I have taken a look at my ThinkPad and I do have several RAM expansion slots, meaning I won't have to throw this laptop away, and could even upgrade the RAM to 64 MB, meaning I should be able to run OpenBSD 5.4, and probably NetBSD (but I like OpenBSD more on my laptops). Perhaps I was too quick to dismiss this laptop. I'll still need to get a new one, though, I don't think this one would be good for movies or web browsing, but it looks like I will be able to use it for work (programming in C, reading emails etc). I have actually gotten X to start on my laptop, and it isn't completely unusable if I just run a single xterm. This is all on 7 year old software (OpenBSD 4.0), but from what you have said, it seems possible on 5.4. Thanks for the advice, there seem to be few stories of 5.4 on old laptops, probably due to how recent 5.4 is. It's nice to know it's actually possible and has been done. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: 5.4 on a ThinkPad 760EL
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 06:40:28PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > > I'm trying to install 5.4 on an old ThinkPad 760EL and running into some > > trouble, probably due to how little RAM it has - 16 MB. > [...] > > I have read INSTALL.i386 and > > it says that I need at least 32 MB of RAM for 5.4. > [...] > > Apologies if there is something obvious I should be doing. > > The obvious thing you should do is to add more memory to this system. > The 5.4 i386 GENERIC kernel is huge and eats more than half the physical > memory, and then the data structures it creates aren't free. There is > basically no free memory for userland to run, and your system is > swap-bound, hence horribly slow, as you have noticed. > > Your available options are: > - run an old release, which fits in 16MB. I doubt anything >= 4.5 will > fit in 16MB, so you'd use a 5+ years old, unsupported, release. > - build a stripped-down kernel on another 5.4 system and run it on your > ThinkPad. This ought to work, but your kernel will not be supported, > so if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. > - add more memory to your system. Really. It will help. Can't you see > your laptop looking at you with puppy dog eyes? > - get a beefier laptop. Anything with more memory will do. > > Miod I have installed 4.0 and while it does work, even such an old release is barely usable. I'm not too keen on the idea of using such unsupported, possibly unstable software on my laptop, anyway. I suppose the only option is to buy a newer laptop, like you said. There are plenty of good suggestions floating around, most of which can be had for tens of dollars on eBay. OpenBSD is getting so bloated these days, it requires so much RAM :) [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
5.4 on a ThinkPad 760EL
I'm trying to install 5.4 on an old ThinkPad 760EL and running into some
trouble, probably due to how little RAM it has - 16 MB. The install from
the floppy54.fs image went well, no problems. When the machine boots up
for the first time, SSH key generation takes an hour (the laptop is very
slow) but then the laptop hangs after "Starting RPC Daemons:.". I left
the laptop on for 12 hours at this stage and it did not change. Is it
possible to get 5.4 to run on this machine? I have read INSTALL.i386 and
it says that I need at least 32 MB of RAM for 5.4. Should I install an
earlier release which requires less RAM? I want to use this laptop for
light text editing and checking emails, I realise that it may not be
possible to get X to work. Following is a dmesg from a floppy54.fs
diskette. Apologies if there is something obvious I should be doing.
OpenBSD 5.4 (RAMDISK) #35: Tue Jul 30 12:22:02 MDT 2013
dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/RAMDISK
cpu0: Intel Pentium (P54C) ("GenuineIntel" 586-class) 133 MHz
cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8
real mem = 16314368 (15MB)
avail mem = 11505664 (10MB)
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 11/01/96, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfda60
apm0 at bios0: Power Management spec V1.2
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfdaa0/0x800
pcibios0: pcibios_get_intr_routing - function not supported
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing information unavailable.
pcibios0: PCI bus #4 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x8000
cpu0 at mainbus0: (uniprocessor)
cpu0: F00F bug workaround installed
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82437MX" rev 0x02
pcib0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel 82371FB ISA" rev 0x02
pciide0 at pci0 dev 1 function 1 "Intel 82371FB IDE" rev 0x02: DMA, channel 0
wired to compatibility, channel 1 wired to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0:
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA, 2016MB, 4128768 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2
pciide0: channel 1 ignored (disabled)
"TI PCI1130 CardBus" rev 0x04 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 not configured
"TI PCI1130 CardBus" rev 0x04 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
vga1 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 "Trident TGUI 9660" rev 0xd3
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
isa0 at pcib0
isadma0 at isa0
com0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
com1 at isa0 port 0x2f8/8 irq 3: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: reported by CPUID; using exception 16
fdc0 at isa0 port 0x3f0/6 irq 6 drq 2
fd0 at fdc0 drive 0: 1.44MB 80 cyl, 2 head, 18 sec
pcic0 at isa0 port 0x3e0/2 iomem 0xd/16384
pcic0 controller 0: has sockets A and B
pcmcia0 at pcic0 controller 0 socket 0
pcmcia1 at pcic0 controller 0 socket 1
ep1 at pcmcia1 function 0 "3Com Corporation, 3C589D, TP/BNC LAN Card Ver. 2a"
port 0x340/16, irq 9: address 00:10:4b:f7:fa:f0, utp/aui/bnc (default utp)
pcic0: irq 5, polling enabled
root on rd0a swap on rd0b dump on rd0b
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