www unreachable
Hello, http://www.openbsd.org is unreachable. I wanted to know what's new in the current snapshots ? -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
/bin/sh echo \n
Hello, I was testing some scripting using /bin/sh and I could not find this behaviour in the documentation : > $ /bin/sh > $ echo -n '\n' > > $ It seems that ksh even in sh (posix ?) mode does expansion of \n to an actual newline. First is there a way to turn off the \n expansion in simple quotes in /bin/sh ? Second I don't see this feature described neither in man sh nor man ksh so is it a known behaviour of ksh ? Thanks a ton, -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Re: rc daemon_timeout
Le jeu. 23 avr. 2020 à 16:41, Antoine Jacoutot a
écrit :
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 02:34:20PM +0200, Thomas de Grivel wrote:
> > I tried changing the following line in /etc/rc.d/rc.subr but the
> > actual timeout remains 30 sec (from 'time').
> > > [ -z "${daemon_timeout}" ] && daemon_timeout=600
>
> rm /var/run/rc.d/my_daemon
>
Thanks Antoine I'll try that.
Meanwhile I realized my script does not daemonize so it worked to just set
rc_bg=YES
Re: rc daemon_timeout
I tried changing the following line in /etc/rc.d/rc.subr but the
actual timeout remains 30 sec (from 'time').
> [ -z "${daemon_timeout}" ] && daemon_timeout=600
Le jeu. 23 avr. 2020 à 14:28, Thomas de Grivel a écrit :
>
> Le jeu. 23 avr. 2020 à 13:57, Antoine Jacoutot a
> écrit :
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:18:40PM +0100, Raf Czlonka wrote:
> > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:00:59PM BST, Thomas de Grivel wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I have some trouble starting up a daemon on OpenBSD 6.6 stable using rc
> > > > :
> > > >
> > > > in /etc/rc.d/my_daemon :
> > > >
> > > > > #!/bin/ksh
> > > > >
> > > > > daemon="/home/my-user/start"
> > > > > daemon_user=my-user
> > > > > daemon_timeout=600
> > > > >
> > > > > . /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
> > > > >
> > > > > echo "daemon_timeout ${daemon_timeout}"
> > > > > rc_cmd $1
> > > >
> > > > Then I run the following command :
> > > >
> > > > > # time /etc/rc.d/my_daemon
> > > > > daemon_timeout 600
> > > > > seuldanslenoir_staging(timeout)
> > > > > 0m30.54s real 0m00.04s user 0m00.05s system
> > > >
> > > > So the actual timeout is still 30 seconds which is the default in
> > > > /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
> > > >
> > > > What did I do wrong ?
> > >
> > > Order - move the source ('.) line to the top.
> >
> > Hmm no, don't do that.
> >
> > What is the output of 'rcctl get my_daemon timeout'
>
> I did not change anything.
>
> 'rcctl get my_daemon timout' returns 600 as expected.
>
>
> --
> Thomas de Grivel
> kmx.io
--
Thomas de Grivel
kmx.io
Re: rc daemon_timeout
Le jeu. 23 avr. 2020 à 13:57, Antoine Jacoutot a écrit :
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:18:40PM +0100, Raf Czlonka wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:00:59PM BST, Thomas de Grivel wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I have some trouble starting up a daemon on OpenBSD 6.6 stable using rc :
> > >
> > > in /etc/rc.d/my_daemon :
> > >
> > > > #!/bin/ksh
> > > >
> > > > daemon="/home/my-user/start"
> > > > daemon_user=my-user
> > > > daemon_timeout=600
> > > >
> > > > . /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
> > > >
> > > > echo "daemon_timeout ${daemon_timeout}"
> > > > rc_cmd $1
> > >
> > > Then I run the following command :
> > >
> > > > # time /etc/rc.d/my_daemon
> > > > daemon_timeout 600
> > > > seuldanslenoir_staging(timeout)
> > > > 0m30.54s real 0m00.04s user 0m00.05s system
> > >
> > > So the actual timeout is still 30 seconds which is the default in
> > > /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
> > >
> > > What did I do wrong ?
> >
> > Order - move the source ('.) line to the top.
>
> Hmm no, don't do that.
>
> What is the output of 'rcctl get my_daemon timeout'
I did not change anything.
'rcctl get my_daemon timout' returns 600 as expected.
--
Thomas de Grivel
kmx.io
rc daemon_timeout
Hello,
I have some trouble starting up a daemon on OpenBSD 6.6 stable using rc :
in /etc/rc.d/my_daemon :
> #!/bin/ksh
>
> daemon="/home/my-user/start"
> daemon_user=my-user
> daemon_timeout=600
>
> . /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
>
> echo "daemon_timeout ${daemon_timeout}"
> rc_cmd $1
Then I run the following command :
> # time /etc/rc.d/my_daemon
> daemon_timeout 600
> seuldanslenoir_staging(timeout)
> 0m30.54s real 0m00.04s user 0m00.05s system
So the actual timeout is still 30 seconds which is the default in
/etc/rc.d/rc.subr
What did I do wrong ? Is this a known issue ? I could not find an
evident answer to this problem looking at /etc/rc.d/rc.subr
--
Thomas de Grivel
kmx.io
Re: Double fault trap in rtable_l2
Thanks Otto, Now I still don't know what could cause the double fault, I see no interrupt related code in rtable_l2. What am I missing ? I would like to investigate more but I'm not really a kernel developer. The wikipedia page says it has to be a kernel bug, as in not from userland. It also says it would probably not happen on SPARC64. X86 has some flawed designs at its core I have a small diff for >2GB ext2fs partitions though I don't see how it could be related ? Le dim. 19 avr. 2020 à 17:30, Otto Moerbeek a écrit : > > On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:26:20AM +0200, Thomas de Grivel wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I got this error last night on an OpenBSD 6.6-stable amd64 on which I > > recently enabled IKEv2 : > > > > > kernel: double fault trap, code=0 > > > Stopped atrtable_l2+0x27: callq srp_enter+0x4 > > > > I'm a bit puzzled by the "double fault trap" part of the message, what > > does it mean ? > > > > The relevant sources seem to be /sys/net/rtable.c and > > /sys/kern/kern_srp.c though I don't really grok what I'm looking at > > there either. > > > > -- > > Thomas de Grivel > > kmx.io > > > > Googling is not that hard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_fault > > -Otto -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Double fault trap in rtable_l2
Hello, I got this error last night on an OpenBSD 6.6-stable amd64 on which I recently enabled IKEv2 : > kernel: double fault trap, code=0 > Stopped atrtable_l2+0x27: callq srp_enter+0x4 I'm a bit puzzled by the "double fault trap" part of the message, what does it mean ? The relevant sources seem to be /sys/net/rtable.c and /sys/kern/kern_srp.c though I don't really grok what I'm looking at there either. -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Re: Compiler warning in ctype.h
Hello, I was using base gcc but switching to base clang fixes the warnings on -current at least. Is base gcc not supported anymore ? Sorry for the noise. Cheers, Le jeu. 5 mars 2020 à 16:59, Theo de Raadt a écrit : > > Todd C. Miller wrote: > > > On Thu, 05 Mar 2020 16:07:48 +0100, Thomas de Grivel wrote: > > > > > Actually I see the same problem on 6.6-stable : > > > including readline/readline.h produces warnings. > > > > > > Any -Werror hope some day ? > > > > You still haven't bothered to include: > > > > 1) the compiler you are using > > 2) the compiler flags to reproduce the problem > > 3) a sample program to reproduce the problem > > > > The _l parameter in those inline functions already has the __unused__ > > attribute set which is supposed to suppress those warnings. > > > > I can't reproduce this using clang (base or ports) or gcc (base or > > ports) using -Wall, -Wextra and -Wunused-parameter. But since you > > haven't provided any details, we just have to guess at what you are > > doing. > > Or not guess, but simply delete the mail -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Re: Compiler warning in ctype.h
Actually I see the same problem on 6.6-stable : including readline/readline.h produces warnings. Any -Werror hope some day ? cheers Le mer. 4 mars 2020 à 13:41, Thomas de Grivel a écrit : > > With latest OpenBSD snapshot on amd64 > > In file included from /usr/include/readline/chardefs.h:26, > from /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:36, > from /usr/include/readline/readline.h:38, > from cli.c:21: > /usr/include/ctype.h:216: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:222: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:228: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:234: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:240: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:246: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:252: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:258: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:264: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:270: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:276: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:282: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:288: warning: unused parameter '_l' > /usr/include/ctype.h:294: warning: unused parameter '_l' > > -- > Thomas de Grivel > kmx.io -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Compiler warning in ctype.h
With latest OpenBSD snapshot on amd64 In file included from /usr/include/readline/chardefs.h:26, from /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:36, from /usr/include/readline/readline.h:38, from cli.c:21: /usr/include/ctype.h:216: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:222: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:228: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:234: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:240: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:246: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:252: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:258: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:264: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:270: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:276: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:282: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:288: warning: unused parameter '_l' /usr/include/ctype.h:294: warning: unused parameter '_l' -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
rtbuf 0.2.2
rtbuf is a minimalistic real time modular synthesis framework in pure C99. it supports OpenBSD sndio and now Linux too through Portaudio. to run ./rtbuf test_synth please contact me if you are interested in developing high quality real time applications under a BSD license. https://github.com/kmx-io/rtbuf -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
USB M-Audio as default audio output
Hello misc, I have a USB M-Audio card which is very well supported by OpenBSD 6.6 amd64 My question is : how do I setup an USB audio card as the default audio device whenever it is plugged in ? Also I did not manage to get audio output with environment variables only, I had to swap /dev/audio0 and /dev/audio1 and then it worked. Could it have something to do with sndiod not running for /dev/audio1 ? In all cases I really like sndio, it is really easy to work with. Cheers, -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
OpenBSD and ext2fs (ext3)
Hello, I have a few ext3 drives from an old gentoo which mount fine but do not fsck (something about the first alternate superblock not matching values) they mount and fsck fine under linux. The only exception being a 4Tb drive which panics when mounting the ext3 partition. Is this expected or should I investigate further ? -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Re: OpenBSD -current on T495
With latest snapshot the iwm driver attaches the wireless card which
works. Awesome !
Le sam. 9 nov. 2019 à 22:02, Patrick Wildt a écrit :
>
> On Sat, Nov 09, 2019 at 12:08:35PM +0100, Thomas de Grivel wrote:
> > Everything works except wifi, suspend/resume and screen backlight, and
> > mute speakers button.
>
> Hi,
>
> I have an X395 which is basically the same machine.
>
> For Wifi I have temporarily replaced the Intel WiFi with a bwfm(4), the
> Dell Wireless DW1820a (note the a), which has two antenna connectors.
> There's the DW1830 which has three. My X395 has two connectors, so I
> just put in the DW1820a. Both can be purchased cheaply on eBay.
>
> The mute speaker button works for me, but the light doesn't show up.
>
> I will try to have a look at suspend/resume at one of the next OpenBSD
> hackathons.
>
> For the screen backlight I have come up with a diff, but it's not yet
> ready to be committed, as it should be done in a different fashion.
> Still, I have attached the diff if you want to give it a go.
>
> Patrick
>
> diff --git a/sys/dev/acpi/acpivideo.c b/sys/dev/acpi/acpivideo.c
> index 9498465a418..a46a99a67f7 100644
> --- a/sys/dev/acpi/acpivideo.c
> +++ b/sys/dev/acpi/acpivideo.c
> @@ -149,7 +149,7 @@ acpi_foundvout(struct aml_node *node, void *arg)
> if (node->parent != sc->sc_devnode)
> return (0);
>
> - if (aml_searchname(node, "_BCM") && aml_searchname(node, "_BQC")) {
> + if (aml_searchname(node, "_BCM")) {
> memset(, 0, sizeof(aaa));
> aaa.aaa_iot = sc->sc_acpi->sc_iot;
> aaa.aaa_memt = sc->sc_acpi->sc_memt;
> diff --git a/sys/dev/acpi/acpivout.c b/sys/dev/acpi/acpivout.c
> index 5fb6973f595..b1957b0c652 100644
> --- a/sys/dev/acpi/acpivout.c
> +++ b/sys/dev/acpi/acpivout.c
> @@ -60,6 +60,7 @@ struct acpivout_softc {
>
> int *sc_bcl;
> size_t sc_bcl_len;
> + int sc_bcl_cur;
> };
>
> void acpivout_brightness_cycle(struct acpivout_softc *);
> @@ -113,10 +114,16 @@ acpivout_attach(struct device *parent, struct device
> *self, void *aux)
> aml_register_notify(sc->sc_devnode, aaa->aaa_dev,
> acpivout_notify, sc, ACPIDEV_NOPOLL);
>
> + acpivout_get_bcl(sc);
> + if (!sc->sc_bcl_len)
> + return;
> +
> + sc->sc_bcl_cur = sc->sc_bcl[sc->sc_bcl_len - 1];
> + sc->sc_bcl_cur = acpivout_get_brightness(sc);
> + acpivout_set_brightness(sc, sc->sc_bcl_cur);
> +
> ws_get_param = acpivout_get_param;
> ws_set_param = acpivout_set_param;
> -
> - acpivout_get_bcl(sc);
> }
>
> int
> @@ -130,12 +137,15 @@ acpivout_notify(struct aml_node *node, int notify, void
> *arg)
> break;
> case NOTIFY_BRIGHTNESS_UP:
> acpivout_brightness_step(sc, 1);
> + wsdisplay_change_brightness(1);
> break;
> case NOTIFY_BRIGHTNESS_DOWN:
> acpivout_brightness_step(sc, -1);
> + wsdisplay_change_brightness(-1);
> break;
> case NOTIFY_BRIGHTNESS_ZERO:
> acpivout_brightness_zero(sc);
> + wsdisplay_change_brightness(0);
> break;
> case NOTIFY_DISPLAY_OFF:
> /* TODO: D3 state change */
> @@ -200,7 +210,9 @@ acpivout_get_brightness(struct acpivout_softc *sc)
> struct aml_value res;
> int level;
>
> - aml_evalname(sc->sc_acpi, sc->sc_devnode, "_BQC", 0, NULL, );
> + if (aml_evalname(sc->sc_acpi, sc->sc_devnode, "_BQC", 0, NULL, ))
> + return sc->sc_bcl_cur;
> +
> level = aml_val2int();
> aml_freevalue();
> DPRINTF(("%s: BQC = %d\n", DEVNAME(sc), level));
> @@ -242,6 +254,7 @@ acpivout_set_brightness(struct acpivout_softc *sc, int
> level)
> aml_evalname(sc->sc_acpi, sc->sc_devnode, "_BCM", 1, , );
>
> aml_freevalue();
> + sc->sc_bcl_cur = level;
> }
>
> void
> diff --git a/sys/dev/pci/drm/amd/amdgpu/amdgpu_kms.c
> b/sys/dev/pci/drm/amd/amdgpu/amdgpu_kms.c
> index 02a90069f8d..4bad51b7d5f 100644
> --- a/sys/dev/pci/drm/amd/amdgpu/amdgpu_kms.c
> +++ b/sys/dev/pci/drm/amd/amdgpu/amdgpu_kms.c
> @@ -1656,7 +1656,7 @@ amdgpu_wsioctl(void *v, u_long cmd, caddr_t data, int
> flag, struct proc *p)
> case WSDISPLAYIO_PARAM_BRIGHTNESS:
> dp->min = 0;
> dp->max = bd->props.
Re: OpenBSD -current on T495
plex" rev 0x00 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh IOMMU" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 0 function 2 not configured pchb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "AMD AMD64 17h PCIE" rev 0x00 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 2 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh PCIE" rev 0x00: msi pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 "Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 9260" rev 0x29 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 not configured ppb1 at pci0 dev 1 function 3 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh PCIE" rev 0x00: msi pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 nvme0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "SanDisk WD Black NVMe" rev 0x00: msix, NVMe 1.3 nvme0: WDC PC SN720 SDAQNTW-1T00-1001, firmware 10160101, serial 192901802227 scsibus1 at nvme0: 2 targets, initiator 0 sd0 at scsibus1 targ 1 lun 0: sd0: 976762MB, 512 bytes/sector, 2000409264 sectors ppb2 at pci0 dev 1 function 4 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh PCIE" rev 0x00: msi pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 re0 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 "Realtek 8168" rev 0x0e: RTL8168EP/8111EP (0x5000), msi, address 98:fa:9b:fb:36:0c rgephy0 at re0 phy 7: RTL8251 PHY, rev. 0 vendor "Realtek", unknown product 0x816a (class communications subclass serial, rev 0x0e) at pci3 dev 0 function 1 not configured vendor "Realtek", unknown product 0x816b (class communications subclass serial, rev 0x0e) at pci3 dev 0 function 2 not configured vendor "Realtek", unknown product 0x816c (class serial bus subclass IPMI, rev 0x0e) at pci3 dev 0 function 3 not configured ehci0 at pci3 dev 0 function 4 vendor "Realtek", unknown product 0x816d rev 0x0e: apic 33 int 15 ehci0: pre-2.0 USB rev ppb3 at pci0 dev 1 function 6 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh PCIE" rev 0x00: msi pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 re1 at pci4 dev 0 function 0 "Realtek 8168" rev 0x10: RTL8168GU/8111GU (0x5080), msi, address 98:fa:9b:fb:36:0b rgephy1 at re1 phy 7: RTL8251 PHY, rev. 0 ppb4 at pci0 dev 1 function 7 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh PCIE" rev 0x00: msi pci5 at ppb4 bus 5 rtsx0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 "Realtek RTS522A Card Reader" rev 0x01: msi sdmmc0 at rtsx0: 4-bit, dma pchb1 at pci0 dev 8 function 0 "AMD AMD64 17h PCIE" rev 0x00 ppb5 at pci0 dev 8 function 1 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh PCIE" rev 0x00 pci6 at ppb5 bus 6 amdgpu0 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 "ATI Picasso" rev 0xd1 drm0 at amdgpu0 amdgpu0: msi azalia0 at pci6 dev 0 function 1 "ATI Radeon Vega HD Audio" rev 0x00: msi azalia0: no supported codecs ccp0 at pci6 dev 0 function 2 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Crypto" rev 0x00 xhci0 at pci6 dev 0 function 3 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh xHCI" rev 0x00: msi, xHCI 1.10 usb0 at xhci0: USB revision 3.0 uhub0 at usb0 configuration 1 interface 0 "AMD xHCI root hub" rev 3.00/1.00 addr 1 xhci1 at pci6 dev 0 function 4 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh xHCI" rev 0x00: msi, xHCI 1.10 usb1 at xhci1: USB revision 3.0 uhub1 at usb1 configuration 1 interface 0 "AMD xHCI root hub" rev 3.00/1.00 addr 1 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh I2S Audio" rev 0x00 at pci6 dev 0 function 5 not configured azalia1 at pci6 dev 0 function 6 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh HD Audio" rev 0x00: apic 33 int 30 azalia1: codecs: Realtek/0x0257 audio0 at azalia1 "AMD FCH SMBus" rev 0x61 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 not configured pcib0 at pci0 dev 20 function 3 "AMD FCH LPC" rev 0x51 pchb2 at pci0 dev 24 function 0 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb3 at pci0 dev 24 function 1 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb4 at pci0 dev 24 function 2 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb5 at pci0 dev 24 function 3 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb6 at pci0 dev 24 function 4 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb7 at pci0 dev 24 function 5 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb8 at pci0 dev 24 function 6 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 pchb9 at pci0 dev 24 function 7 "AMD AMD64 17h/1xh Data Fabric" rev 0x00 isa0 at pcib0 isadma0 at isa0 pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 irq 1 irq 12 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard pms0 at pckbc0 (aux slot) wsmouse0 at pms0 mux 0 wsmouse1 at pms0 mux 0 pms0: Synaptics clickpad, firmware 10.32, 0x1e2a1 0x940300 pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61 spkr0 at pcppi0 vmm0 at mainbus0: SVM/RVI efifb at mainbus0 not configured ugen0 at uhub1 port 1 "Intel product 0x0025" rev 2.00/0.02 addr 2 uhub2 at uhub1 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 "Genesys Logic USB2.0 Hub" rev 2.00/60.52 addr 3 uvideo0 at uhub2 port 1 configuration 1 interface 0 "Chicony Electronics Co.,Ltd. Integrated Camera" rev 2.01/67.23 addr 4 video0 at uvideo0 uvideo1 at uhub2 port 1 configuration 1 interface 2 "Chicony Electronics Co.,Ltd. Integrated Camera" rev 2.01/67.23 addr 4 video1 at uvideo1 vscsi0 at root scsibus2 at vscsi0: 256 targets softraid0 at root scsibus3 at softraid0: 256 targets root on sd0a (b800c95e55295e8f.a) swap on sd0b dump on sd0b WARNING: / was not pr
OpenBSD -current on T495
Everything works except wifi, suspend/resume and screen backlight, and mute speakers button. -- Thomas de Grivel kmx.io
Re: Add $daemon_nice to rc.subr
and it's like 6 new lines in rc.subr no big deal Le mar. 4 sept. 2018 à 10:53, Thomas de Grivel a écrit : > > why ? well all interactive process get a quarter range nice priority > advance compared to all daemon tasks, at least for a laptop > environment it really makes sense. sndiod and ntpd are unaffected by > this change. > > you're right to criticize in that I did not document my code, the > point of this new variable is that an amendment to daemon priority is > no more than putting one line in /etc/rc.conf.local eg. > sshd_nice=1 > > or in the rc.d/ file > daemon_nice=whatever > > why, because it is a whole lot more readable and usable than > inheriting a whole new login class just to change one parameter, but > if you don't like it nobody foces you huh ? > > Le mar. 4 sept. 2018 à 07:57, Alexandre Ratchov a écrit : > > > > On Tue, Sep 04, 2018 at 04:58:53AM +0200, Thomas de Grivel wrote: > > > > > > And I still feel the default nice priority of 10 is rather a good > > > idea. > > > > why? > > > > -- > Thomas de Grivel > http://b.lowh.net/billitch/ -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch/
Re: Add $daemon_nice to rc.subr
why ? well all interactive process get a quarter range nice priority advance compared to all daemon tasks, at least for a laptop environment it really makes sense. sndiod and ntpd are unaffected by this change. you're right to criticize in that I did not document my code, the point of this new variable is that an amendment to daemon priority is no more than putting one line in /etc/rc.conf.local eg. sshd_nice=1 or in the rc.d/ file daemon_nice=whatever why, because it is a whole lot more readable and usable than inheriting a whole new login class just to change one parameter, but if you don't like it nobody foces you huh ? Le mar. 4 sept. 2018 à 07:57, Alexandre Ratchov a écrit : > > On Tue, Sep 04, 2018 at 04:58:53AM +0200, Thomas de Grivel wrote: > > > > And I still feel the default nice priority of 10 is rather a good > > idea. > > why? -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch/
DRM without X
Hello misc, Is there any way to use the DRM drivers without X11 ? -- Thomas de Grivel
Re: Why does OpenBSD use CVS?
Le 04/29/13 06:03, Hugo Osvaldo Barrera a écrit : On 2013-04-20 12:15, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2013-04-20, Alokat MacMoneysack mail...@alokat.org wrote: Hi, first, I don't want to start a flame war about why is CVS better or not better than X - it's just a question. If you say, we use it because it just works - it's okay. :) So why does OpenBSD still uses CVS and don't migrate to SVN or something like git as other OSS projekts do? Regards, fritjof my 2p: like all version control software CVS has bugs, but between us, developers have a reasonable idea of how to avoid them in CVS, there's less knowledge about other version control systems. Also having the repository stored in human-readable (ish) files is an advantage if there was ever any repo corruption. Some other CVS keeps checksums of every commit, and every commit contains the checksum of the last commit + this commits diff. This helps *prevent* corruption (or at least prevents it from spreading). I think that beats human-readable files to manually find corruptions (that may well spread). I ran into a hash collision once, using git rebase. You might also ask why some other OS use source control software which they don't even include in the base OS ;-) -- Hugo Osvaldo Barrera [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] -- Thomas de Grivel I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
pkg_delete problem
8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x211caf000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x211caf000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2118ab000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2118ab000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2114a8000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2114a8000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2110a3000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2110a3000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x210c9b000,0x2000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x210c9b000,0x2000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x210882000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x210882000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20a21b000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20a21b000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20282d000,0x4000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20282d000,0x4000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2020e5000,0x1000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x2020e5000,0x1000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20c4ac000,0x2000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20c4ac000,0x2000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,~0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20cd5,0x3000,0x3PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL mprotect(0x20cd5,0x3000,0x1PROT_READ) 8016 perl RET mprotect 0 8016 perl CALL sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0) 8016 perl RET sigprocmask ~0x10100SIGKILL|SIGSTOP 8016 perl CALL exit(0xff) -- Thomas de Grivel I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
keyboard repeat on install
Hi, I'm having a hard time installing OpenBSD from bsd.rd across a lagging vnc connection. Every few seconds, the key i'm pressing gets repeated for about a second. I can press backspace, but when the key being repeated is enter, i have to start install all over again. I'm wondering : what is autorepeat good for in bsd.rd ? I found out how to disable autorepeat with X and wsconsctl, but they are not relevant to bsd.rd. Am I missing something ? Cheers, -- Thomas de Grivel
Re: keyboard repeat on install
On 12/22/11 17:43, Theo de Raadt wrote: I'm having a hard time installing OpenBSD from bsd.rd across a lagging vnc connection. Every few seconds, the key i'm pressing gets repeated for about a second. I can press backspace, but when the key being repeated is enter, i have to start install all over again. I'm wondering : what is autorepeat good for in bsd.rd ? I found out how to disable autorepeat with X and wsconsctl, but they are not relevant to bsd.rd. Am I missing something ? Not relevant to bsd.rd? Sorry, but we disagree. bsd.rd is not different from bsd, except in a few details where can save size to make it fit onto media. Indeed, wsconsctl works perfectly. I was confused.. Thanks ! -- Thomas de Grivel
Re: Dennis Ritchie
2011/11/25 Marc Espie es...@nerim.net On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 03:54:19AM +0100, Thomas de Grivel wrote: On 10/14/11 03:22, Tito Mari Francis Escaqo wrote: Dennis Ritchie should be the patron saint of software development and engineering. :) No matter how disgusting the notion of patron is to me, I feel Ada Lovelace would have to be considered too. She's not as freshly dead but is Den's father too. This is to put an end to the Jobs / Ritchie mise en abime. Generally spelled mise en abyme in that expression. Isn't language quirky ? I guess we make the language as much as the inverse. Casual trolling is such a nice way to learn these things =) -- Thomas de Grivel
Re: Dennis Ritchie
On 10/14/11 03:22, Tito Mari Francis Escaqo wrote:
Dennis Ritchie should be the patron saint of software development and
engineering. :)
No matter how disgusting the notion of patron is to me, I feel Ada
Lovelace would have to be considered too. She's not as freshly dead but
is Den's father too. This is to put an end to the Jobs / Ritchie mise en
abime.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:57 AM, OpenBSD Europe
m...@openbsdeurope.comwrote:
On 13/10/11 11:32, Donald Reichert wrote:
Original-Nachricht
Datum: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:14:20 +0200
Von: David Coppadco...@gmail.com
An: misc@openbsd.org
Betreff: Dennis Ritchie
Today is a sad sad day :(
Rest in Peace.
Without you, we would never be here.
Cheers,
David
He died last weekend. RIP.
#includestdio.h
int main()
{
printf(goodbye, dad\n);
return 0;
}
I vote for the next release artwork tributing his work some way :-)
makewhatis on /usr
Hi, From weekly output : Rebuilding whatis databases: /usr/libexec/makewhatis: Can't create /usr/share/man/whatis.db: Read-only file system Should not whatis.db be in /var/... ? From hier(7) : /usr/ Contains the majority of user utilities and applications. share/Architecture independent data files. man/ Manual pages. Is it really a manual page ?
Re: makewhatis on /usr
On 11/19/11 15:40, Carson Chittom wrote: Thomas de Griveltho...@lowh.net writes: Hi, From weekly output : Rebuilding whatis databases: /usr/libexec/makewhatis: Can't create /usr/share/man/whatis.db: Read-only file system Should not whatis.db be in /var/... ? From hier(7) : /usr/ Contains the majority of user utilities and applications. share/Architecture independent data files. man/ Manual pages. Is it really a manual page ? Shouldn't the index of manual pages be with the manual pages? Yeah and let's put the reader there too ?
Re: OpenBSD 5.0 Shipping
Le 10/27/11 14:48, OpenBSD Europe a icrit : On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:44 PM, OpenBSD Europem...@openbsdeurope.com wrote: We have started shipping OpenBSD 5.0 :-) All orders have been shipped (only a couple remaining which will be shipped tomorrow). Received today, thanks !!! -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
Re: OpenBSD 5.0 Shipping
Le 10/29/11 17:50, Thomas de Grivel a icrit : Le 10/27/11 14:48, OpenBSD Europe a icrit : On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:44 PM, OpenBSD Europem...@openbsdeurope.com wrote: We have started shipping OpenBSD 5.0 :-) All orders have been shipped (only a couple remaining which will be shipped tomorrow). Received today, thanks !!! That was from Blowfish Unlimited actually ! -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
Re: PHP 5.3 on 4.9 (stable)
No, IIRC the mismatch is due to php website returning html page, fix is to add the actual path (something with attic or museum in it) to php/Makefile.inc, I can provide a patch soon if needed. You should probably CC maintainer too, and direct such problems at ports@ instead of misc@ On 25 juil. 2011 22:30, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: mistakes happen. fix is to do make makesum? gentle reminder: ports questions should go to ports@, not misc@ On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Devin Ceartas nacred...@gmail.com wrote: I'm getting this error, which I would have thought would have been cleaned up in the stable ports but doesn't seem to be. Has anyone else seen this or know if this a simple error of not updating a check file somwhere: Size does not match for /usr/ports/distfiles/php-5.3.5.tar.gz -- Devin M. Ceartas, owner NacreData L.L.C.
Re: OT: Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
I believe SICP has much culture but not always so great style. I'm not learning lisp. Who are you to know of all lisp learners ? Why are you associating lisp with functional programming ? CL in itself is not really functional, but being a metalanguage you can make it so. You could also make it sort perforated cards. Is it a perforated cards programming language ? Lisp is not important, the way we can program it is important, and it just comes from its syntax. Lisp machines are long dead, there are excellent compilers available for more current archs. Looks to me like you are still learning lisp. -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch/
Re: OT: Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
I'm not really selling anything. I'm seeing a deeply rooted bug in our way of thinking programming languages. Struggling is not necessary unless you want to punish yourself. My experience, and I feel I have enough in C to speak untroubled, is that not all languages are like C when it comes to laying out your thoughts. I used to think so, all my mind was trapped in this. The language is very well defined, but cannot understand itself. Cannot be worked itself like we work other data, except with a gigantic piece of software. If the code does not reflect the layers of thoughts, of course it cannot scale, or very slowly. You need good abstractions to solve complex problems. And good data structure, C has that better than any other language. In CL I can speak my mind in terms of layers and these layers fit nice, or are easy to fix because there is no duplicate code. This also means very short code. This is not because of the semantics of the language, C is much better defined at precise memory handling, but precisely because part of the art of programming in s-exp is partly in generating the uninteresting part of the code, or reading it with a function, checking for some bug patterns. I could try to explain it another way : we are compilers. We have ideas we need to translate into C, knowing that in turn C will be compiled into some behaviour of the system. That pipeline is broken when your layers do not fit well into the language. To fix this we'd need macros to generate code, but C macros generate not code but text ! How's that in any way useful ? Other hint debunks : - CL is much much older than C. Again not talking about the semantics, but at the time it was out, C compiler technology was really not state of the art. Though it had much more focused semantics, which made it win most system code. - CL is not functional, it is procedural like C and can generate native code. - You can encode any language in s-exp. Actually this is done at AST level though we cannot access it with these bulky C compilers. The good features of lisp are just from symbolic expressions. What Theo said remains true to all programming. How the language is processed is what I'm talking about. Any hacker not knowing a couple of Lisp macros is a waste of mind. -- Thomas de Grivel I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
Re: OT: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
Le 06/08/11 14:00, Ariane van der Steldt a icrit : On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 02:24:14AM +0200, Thomas de Grivel wrote: This really has nothing to do on this list, but here I go... Pfft, this mail sucks. If you had actually responded properly, instead of reiterating your arguments, I would have enjoyed it. You're just baiting. Oh well, I'll take the bait. I'll just pretend you actually replied to my e-mail (and for the love of clean, threaded mailinglists, please make proper use of mail threading; no fun to have to look all over the place to find your mail). Sorry for that. Frankly you were much more interesting about vmmap and avl trees. I did not mean to disturb you. I'll answer anyway because you flame me just for the sake of flaming. Languages are like gods : there can be only one, and its perfect, and everywhere, and we show our faith. Sure.. who wants to believe that crap ? Well... you do. Obviously no. You completely misconceived my intentions. That was a gross caricature, but also what I felt of previous comments by programmers. Languages have flaws, they are (slightly) bugged to the core and we're so much into their usage^Wabuse that we dont see walls anymore. Hey my windows works fine at home when installing every year !! This paragraph added nothing to the discussion. Yes, a lot of programmers are lost in trust to their language being the one true way to think programming. It was linked to the previous paragraph. You dismiss assisted code proof because proving code is not verified itself. I did say that. I said code proof (assisted or manual) is a lot of work. What if it could be ? Actually it has been done with a compiler of a subset of C and a few ML like languages. Compiled assembly code of compiler was proven correct by humans. Writing an assisted proof compiler for C is just as trivial as writing one for lisp. I'm not talking about assisted proof, but proving the compiler correct. This way, when you can prove the code by hand or assisted, then you can be sure the binary is correct. This was indeed a lot of work, like you said. The ML like languages, along with type theory, are now used to study math theorems by writing them in types and proving the theorem by writing a program of that type. IIRC this is Curry-Howard correspondence. Turing machines are used in proofs. I think we should ditch the current architectures and switch to really-long-tape! You think that because a language is suitable for one thing, it is suitable for everything. A common fallacy. I am precisely advocating the discovery of other languages, not one true language. When you start looking around you see the flaws in each of them. Most often it is syntax, since if the language is useful the semantics are quite right. I'm wondering, what other languages do you know along with C ? In languages like ocaml every expression has a static type, possibly removing all need for runtime type info. I also think the ocaml grammar and static typing sucks, but programs that compile *always* work and are fast. C has static typing! int a; really describes an int, not a float... Programs don't *always* work. Malloc may return NULL, mmap may fail, for many reasons. And that's just memory. I don't think you understand what it takes to run a program. Anyway, C programs work for the same value of *always* and the same value of fast. Why are you talking about C here ? It was about ocaml. You don't seem to know how it works and its type system. In 1996, a researcher named J.L Krivine took the theorem of the completeness of classical logic (we all use in science, math, programming), expressed it in type theory, and actually proved it by writing a step by step userland disassembler. Pure wtf, but true. Mind blower to me. Good for him. What has that to do with C or lisp or other programming languages? You'll have to dig up youself. That writing a disassembler is equivalent to proving a fundamental theorem of mathematics is awesome enough to me. Just like C, OCaml has skills in its semantics, but they both suck at grammar : parsing ml requires a full lex/yacc above and below gcc. Not really checked code but if the bug hasnt shown it must not exist. Or in the next release. Ah, OCaml is cool because you have not seen a bug in a compiler... Parsing lisp, i can explain to a 2 year old. Bold statement. You know 2 year olds aren't known for their ability at abstract thinking? Yeah I've always thought too much wonders about kids. Maybe 5 years old. Do it in *any* language. In less than 1kb. On the syntax, Lisp is the red pill. Bla bla bla, no arguments supplied. Arguments ? Do I need to explain a 50 years old widely taught academic root of computing here to be heard ? If you care why don't you try it ? I bet that with your skills (i read very interesting things from you on tech@) writing a s-exp parser would be a less than 2 hours task. If C was so easy to parse
OT: Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
Before even thinking of fixing it i'm trying to see if i'm alone in my quest. I like code correctness and feel what's done in OpenBSD is epic given the shitty language all the devs are dealing with. I love this much epic. Now if you want to know what code I'm writing, first I'm writing english because as you can see when a bring s-exp i'm answered asm and brainfuck. Seriously did you even google the thing ? And i never criticized the semantics of the code. Just that it's a 1 month project to build a fudgy C lexer, when parsing s-exp is more powerful and takes 2 days while watching pr0n, and 2 hours without. This is clearly off topic, and don't mean to rewrite an OS but there clearly is a need for cleaner programming languages in this world. I used to love C and i'm still quite proficient at it but when i had a glimpse of Lisp i realized how narrow was my vision of programming. And how much i trusted the languages i used to mean something.
Re: OT: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
This really has nothing to do on this list, but here I go... Languages are like gods : there can be only one, and its perfect, and everywhere, and we show our faith. Sure.. who wants to believe that crap ? Languages have flaws, they are (slightly) bugged to the core and we're so much into their usage^Wabuse that we dont see walls anymore. Hey my windows works fine at home when installing every year !! You dismiss assisted code proof because proving code is not verified itself. What if it could be ? Actually it has been done with a compiler of a subset of C and a few ML like languages. Compiled assembly code of compiler was proven correct by humans. The ML like languages, along with type theory, are now used to study math theorems by writing them in types and proving the theorem by writing a program of that type. IIRC this is Curry-Howard correspondence. In languages like ocaml every expression has a static type, possibly removing all need for runtime type info. I also think the ocaml grammar and static typing sucks, but programs that compile *always* work and are fast. In 1996, a researcher named J.L Krivine took the theorem of the completeness of classical logic (we all use in science, math, programming), expressed it in type theory, and actually proved it by writing a step by step userland disassembler. Pure wtf, but true. Mind blower to me. Just like C, OCaml has skills in its semantics, but they both suck at grammar : parsing ml requires a full lex/yacc above and below gcc. Not really checked code but if the bug hasnt shown it must not exist. Or in the next release. Parsing lisp, i can explain to a 2 year old. Do it in *any* language. In less than 1kb. On the syntax, Lisp is the red pill. Languages like C let the humans do all the deducive work, though this is something machines do better. Are you reviewing the bits on your disk by hand after hard reboot ? No you write a program for that. Do you have to check every piece of assembled functionality in your OS by hand ? Yes because the code cannot understand the code. Checking for errors is good, machines are better than humans at repetitive tasks. I'm not saying it has to be automatized, just we could have had more powerful tools at hand if C was not an outdated tech the day it was made.. I'm not fixing this but we have to wake up. And fix the problems at their root. Not so OT actually ? That some system programmers still ignore much of the details of what was achieved in programming languages is no surprise, our community is broken by our beliefs that they are fighting on the same plane. To express all programs. Language esthetes fail to like C semantics, all lost in high-levelness or using C when too close to the metal. C programmers often not aware that non-fortran-like languages actually do wonders. Once again, I can only praise the C semantics for what is achieved by hand in this project. But i cannot shut up about its grammar. It is the worst wormed gift ever made to the programming world. Along with INTERCAL. Actually it was not really a gift, more of a prank. I'm not advising anyone let off C and those waiting for me to tell them some truth about programming languages are fucking zombies. But you cannot blind yourself into C like the world wants you to. There are way more beautiful things to see in this world, dont you know ? Grammar is the tool at the base of your trust : you assume you can express what your twisted and experienced mind wants to see in forming a sequence of tokens. In the grammar of C you assemble characters to form a tree of tokens. You cannot see them, just trust they are actually there. Or not : optimizations, defines, bad macros, missing ;, broken lexer, broken compiler,.. hairy errors. In symbolic computing to can actually avoid all duplication of code, review or even step-step through compilation, define new compilation macros, extending compiler e.g checking for some type of errors without duplicating code - true macros. - avoid needing so much complexity just for parsing/compiling = more trust, less to check by hand This is not because of the language itself, which is actually not better defined than C, but because of its parsability. Code is actually not text : it is a tree of tokens. I think I made my point, maybe now I'll try to shut up. And Christiano, you know, technically its only a rape if i do not consent. And `sed` threats dont really work on me. All in all, i trust all the distrust in OpenBSD to build an awesome product. I thought I'd share some distrust regarding some of our most important tools. Maybe not paranoia. Be safe =)
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
I don't want to engage in language wars, as i wrote before there is a gap in programming culture and reinforcing trust in my favorite lang or OS won't help. We trust our languages to mean something but writing correct programs strangely is still a struggle even to skilled programmers, and takes much testing. Again, i don't mean to hurt but C is really not KISS, at all. Its paradigm is appropriate for system but its grammar is a huge mess. And we're all happy to struggle with it ? Is it out of pride ? There is no easy fix but i recognize this is the core source of many ugly bugs. They're just symptoms of this. And noone cares at all.
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
On 06/06/11 11:36, Eric Furman wrote: I'm super duper excited! :-0 do you need a towel ? -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
Actually you're right : the C paradigm is straightforward and perfect to handle system code. What I meant to criticize is its grammar : it sucks that we cannot parse C with a simple program. It's not KISS at all and we all pay the price when checking for errors and everytime we wish to process these weird formatted text files. On the other hand, languages based on s-expressions have this unique feature of being very easy to parse and can be processed as regular data, every aspect of the syntax being clean and regular. The problem is that these languages were historically used by pretentious folks on rare supercomputers and thus were not developed to fit the low level paradigm very well. This does not have to be. We should bridge this gap that was forced by ice age investors. Of course i really don't know how nor how it relates to OpenBSD, apart from this common goal of achieving correctness. -- Thomas de Grivel Lisp is the red pill
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
I was actually referring to the people seeking correctness in software development. Feel free to say you are not interested. And threats about killer monkey squads do not apply here, get lost. On 5 juin 2011 20:38, gilbert.fernan...@orange.fr wrote: On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 03:10:42PM +0200, Thomas de Grivel wrote: [..] We should [..] Those two words are the exact spot where the problem really is. That we. OpenBSD is worked upon by developers. They do it, the hard work so people like me, users, can benefit from good code, solid software, trusty operating system. They do it : they write the code. Debug it. Maintain it. Fix it. So, if any change of tools is done, it will be done by them, and them alone. Not me, nor anyone else. Thus, there is no we. There is the developers on one side, and the users on the other. If developers do want the C langage to be replaced by something else, they will do it. Because they will get a benefit from it, and OpenBSD too. Until this happens, C will remain the langage used. If your idea can be, you will have to implement it. You (or someone that shares that same idea) will have to design a compiler that compiles a kernel and gives you a shell like OpenBSD does. It has to work as well as OpenBSD does, be able to do all the things it does, and show by the proof that the langage then used really makes working on it better. Make it work. Like scientists make experiments that are reproductible before saying to the other bald guys in white blouses : guys, it works. You can even try it and check the fact for yourselves, here's the recipe how to do it. We should not tell people that do the work how they should do it. Because they are the ones doing it, since years, and obviously, they're doing a pretty damn good job. If Theo ever hears you say we should in order to tell them how they should code _their_ operating system, I am afraid he will send his special monkey killing-squad and you will vanish from the face of this island. Beware of the monkeys. Especially those that not only eat the banana, but also its skin. -- Guybrush
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
What point are you making ? Some scheme code generated uselless C ? Too bad.. i don't care. It is actually possible to express the C paradigm in a simple grammar. Would be quite simple to translate back and forth too. But maybe it's not enough to prove correctness. On 5 juin 2011 21:01, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote: Actually you're right : the C paradigm is straightforward and perfect to handle system code. there you go. as unfortunate as that is, it is still true. Sometimes, I am very surprised C is still around for so long, and essentially unchanged. But its limitations are well known. What I meant to criticize is its grammar : it sucks that we cannot parse C with a simple program. It's not KISS at all and we all pay the price when checking for errors and everytime we wish to process these weird formatted text files. On the other hand, languages based on s-expressions have this unique feature of being very easy to parse and can be processed as regular data, every aspect of the syntax being clean and regular. The problem is that these languages were historically used by pretentious folks on rare supercomputers and thus were not developed to fit the low level paradigm very well. Allegro just recently got SMT/SMP, all others are probably (no research, just throwing it out there) still stuck in single land. While the folks on the supercomputers today are running SMT/SMP in their zillions. That's the cool thing for them and your s-expressions won't help them today. This does not have to be. We should bridge this gap that was forced by ice age investors. Of course i really don't know how nor how it relates to OpenBSD, apart from this common goal of achieving correctness. Just yesterday, I tried chicken scheme and compiled it to C code. The C was unintelligible, why? Because it is setting up the JVM like environment. This goes back to the vmmap thread. Many people try to play OS designers, when very few of them are capable of it. Just leave the OS stuff to the OS people, they will get it right eventually.
Re: Seems OpenBSD isn't absolutely alone in it's quest, atleast on embedded systems.
Uh isn't the biggest problem that all the system code was written in an almost unparsable grammar and practically impossible to audit automatically ? If the language was considered formalized data as well as the data it operates on, such formalized checking features would be easy to grab. Ever heard of s-expressions ? On 31 mai 2011 18:58, Amit Kulkarni amitk...@gmail.com wrote:
Re: For me, OpenBSD is the operating system that just works.
2011/4/29 Kraktus krak...@googlemail.com On 28/04/2011, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:56:57 -0400 Kraktus wrote: So, I think OpenBSD tops the list of operating systems that just work. The only thing I really wish for is more encryption options for softraid. And more people using OpenBSD, so the data I send to them is more secure. :-) And so I don't have to spend so much time repairing other people's computers, or having to feel so insecure when borrowing others' computers. Imagine walking into a library, signing up to use a computer, and being greeted by a friendly OpenBSD login screen. Or even a FreeBSD one. Or even a Linux one. Or just something that isn't Windows. But of course, that's just a dream. Which is why it would really be nice to have cross-platform block-level software encryption. Sometimes it is necessary to use a computer you don't have control over, and be able to access at least some of your data from that computer. Multi-booting is also sometimes unavoidable, e.g. if your employer requires you to use Photoshop, you really want to learn a foreign language with commercial software, or whatever the situation is. I've been looking into hardware solutions recently. A few examples: http://www.addonics.com/products/diamond_cipher/ http://www.addonics.com/products/cipher/CCEXA256.asp Hitachi's full disk encryption for laptop drives (really hard to find; manufacturers advertise the encrypted drive, but when it arrives in the mail, it turns out to be the unencrypted, freely-exportable version) The first would help for moving encrypted data between different computers running different operating systems; the second and third would help for encrypting a multi-boot computer but still allowing the different OSes to read each others' file systems. Unfortunately, there's some obvious weaknesses. In many ways, the Addonics key, being on a physical medium, has many of the same vulnerabilities as your house key. Unless you can shell out a grand to be able to generate and replicate your own keys, or reverse engineer the formatting so you can do it from OpenBSD, you're stuck letting them generate the key and make the copies. Unlike a password stored in your memory, it can be lost/stolen. (Of course, your memory might have limits on how strong a password you can remember, so the ideal would be to require both a strong key stored on a physical medium, *and* a user-remembered password, which could be accomplished either by encrypting the key with the password, or else by layering a physical-key based encryption and a password-based encryption.) It's probably either ECB or CBC, neither of which is particularly impressive. As for the Hitachi encryption, the length of the password is severely limited by your BIOS. In fact, your BIOS might not even let you enter a password. Also, every hardware-based encryption system I've seen is either AES or something even older and weaker, so if you want Twofish or Threefish, you can only get that from software, so far as I know. I don't understand what makes you feel more secure giving access to your private data to an untrusted OS ? Once you hand the key it's just like an unencrypted block device, right ? Or do you have some magic userland preventing kernel from seeing your decrypted data because your heap is encrypted too ? lol Come on, encrypting disks comes only a long time after securing the system itself, trusting your private data wont help you trust the OS. Now quit bragging around with technical words and go read some actual books. Not tech specs. -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch/
Re: Remotely installing OpenBSD on dedicated server
On 04/28/11 10:05, Nigel Horne wrote:
Hello again.
Thank so much for all your different contributions.
Yaifo seems promising since it can apparently address all the situations in
which you have access to a preinstalled dedicated server that you want to
convert to OpenBSD.
Have any of you encountered situations in which the Yaifo approach didn't
work out of the box?
Are there particular points (outsite of the support documentation) to be
careful about when trying this?
Would you have some practical recommendations as to how to use Yaifo on a
real life server to minimize failure probability (if any.?)
Actually Yaifo did build an image out of the box but it did not boot on
my server, with 4.8 on i386. I had to patch installboot.c in order to
build an image with a valid MBR.
Being able to installboot on a VND disk (not floppy) image seems to be a
valid usage but is broken at least on 4.8 i386 amd64 because it won't
search for MBR on a VND.
The patch is attached. I guess it prevents installboot from working on
VND floppy images as no MBR will be found on these.
The proper hack would be to add an option to force looking for MBR even
on VNDs, document it, and patch Yaifo to use this option.
--
Thomas de Grivel
http://b.lowh.net/billitch
I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
Copyright (c) 2011 Thomas de Grivel billi...@gmail.com
Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any
purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above
copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies.
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED AS IS AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES
WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR
ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES
WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN
ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF
OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE.
Index: installboot.c
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/sys/arch/amd64/stand/installboot/installboot.c,v
retrieving revision 1.12
diff -u -p -r1.12 installboot.c
--- installboot.c 30 May 2009 23:13:14 - 1.12
+++ installboot.c 27 Apr 2011 22:54:08 -
@@ -197,8 +197,7 @@ main(int argc, char *argv[])
sync(); sleep(1);
}
- if (dl.d_type != 0 dl.d_type != DTYPE_FLOPPY
- dl.d_type != DTYPE_VND) {
+ if (dl.d_type != 0 dl.d_type != DTYPE_FLOPPY) {
/* Find OpenBSD partition. */
start = findopenbsd(devfd, dl, (off_t)DOSBBSECTOR, n);
if (start == -1)
Index: installboot.c
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/sys/arch/i386/stand/installboot/installboot.c,v
retrieving revision 1.55
diff -u -p -r1.55 installboot.c
--- installboot.c 30 May 2009 23:13:18 - 1.55
+++ installboot.c 27 Apr 2011 23:57:59 -
@@ -193,8 +193,7 @@ main(int argc, char *argv[])
sync(); sleep(1);
}
- if (dl.d_type != 0 dl.d_type != DTYPE_FLOPPY
- dl.d_type != DTYPE_VND) {
+ if (dl.d_type != 0 dl.d_type != DTYPE_FLOPPY) {
/* Find OpenBSD partition. */
start = findopenbsd(devfd, dl, (off_t)DOSBBSECTOR, n);
if (start == -1)
Re: Remotely installing OpenBSD on dedicated server
On 04/27/11 09:30, David Coppa wrote: On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Nigel Hornenigel.ho...@gmx.com wrote: If not, has any of you found a good way to install OpenBSD over a preinstalled OS remotely reliably (meaning that I don't have to get the server reinstalled 10 times before getting OpenBSD up and running)? http://merdely.wordpress.com/category/tech/yaifo/ +1 works even without KVM. It builds an install image like the one on the OpenBSD CD, except that it has an sshd and your public key. Then you just put it on the boot drive using `dd` from a rescue system. -- Thomas de Grivel http://b.lowh.net/billitch I must plunge into the water of doubt again and again.
Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)
On 04/21/11 04:12, Theo de Raadt wrote: Please don't take this offensively as it touches a sensitive area. Right. We should not be offended when you say You are not getting any sales because you don't do enough. Do more. Benny's proposal is good! License the CD's as 10, 50, 100 user license set, exactly like you do for the old CDs which are $500+. This way OpenBSD taps into the commercial market. Commercial users buy the commercial CDs. Don't be ridiculous. Commercial users don't do that because OpenBSD is already free. They are not fools. Perhaps there are a few who are asking for specific methods where they can help fund us, within their constraints, but that is not nearly the same as get rich quick. They are an outstanding few, and they are not real commercial users. Even with proper deductable donation structures in place (ie. the OpenBSD Foundation) large corporations that are using OpenSSH in their products have given less than pennies per product. The world is not a shiny throw money around place as you think. Last time around somebody asked for packages on DVD. OpenBSD gets pre-orders a month in advance and if so many people want i386/amd64/etc package DVDs, just give it to them! MacOS + Linux + OpenSolaris has done some work on fat binaries, and I am sure with the expertise around here it can be done within some reasonable time. What a kick-ass project that would be! I understand that this is another form of saying do not do enough. We should do more. We should make a DVD, spend money on manufacturing it and packaging it, have people like Bob who is working on the 'buffer flipping' code instead go add more entries to the web page, and then see it if works. See if more than 50 sell. And what if it is a loss. And hey, every 6 months we can do *more work* to build yet another product! Anyway, wouldn't it be cool to reduce the bandwidth and hard drive usage for mirrors and simplify life for everybody? It might be news to you that the mirrors do that for free. A survey is free from so many websites. We get spammed all the time, participate in this and that, why not host a survey right now someplace on openbsd.org or one of the devs websites and see how much interest is really there. Yes, we should build a survey. And a wiki. It would be awesome. We'd get rich. OpenBSD got to be able to have more income streams. Income? I see that you have made a list of things of more things we should do. I don't see gauranteed income in there, anywhere. I can't even get the guys who hack on the project coordinated to work on the 49.html page so that we can get a ANNOUNCEMENT file ready for the upcoming file, because it isn't code, and it isn't as much fun. So you come here telling us we should do more? Get real. I don't do business, but I have more business sense than you. This is a good security minded response : don't expect more, don't count on it. This is coming from a trusted source but not necessarily opposed to the actual proposition. Business sense is good but I get that business is not just about preventing failure but also exploiting the features of the outer world, and the wonderfully informative and intricate laws API. Maybe it could use some full disclosure as well. There has to be some kind of |ber geek enjoying that ; business models are something to hack and debug, on and on, up to the details of the products you release and sell. As long as it costs less than it brings in for funding what wrong could it do ? I'm not saying it can happen, there is no failure in not trying unless you had to try, right ? -- Thomas de Grivel
Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)
On 04/21/11 19:49, Theo de Raadt wrote: There has to be some kind of |ber geek enjoying that ; business models are something to hack and debug, on and on, up to the details of the products you release and sell. I'd love to go fix the sii3114 wdc(4) bug, and work with the other developers in the group to push ~10 important changes into the tree so that they make 5.0 but sorry... I should go 'hack some business models' instead? If there are hackers of that kind lurking somewhere, probably not on this list, some of them would eventually want to share the fun. As long as it costs less than it brings in for funding what wrong could it do ? It costs time. Go do an install of OpenBSD 3.0 to understand the point. It subtracts time but if it also multiplies by more than one, at some point that's worth it. I really do enjoy the time you make me gain and there is so much more after the installation too, that's why I really wish or accept to buy something. Maybe OpenBSD would also enjoy the time and funding gained from some other kind of hackers. People who reveal and exploit our willingness to buy things we like, and others who like to communicate an image in sync with the produced goods : a f*ing awesome piece of software, if you sirs allow me. That's what a newborn geek would almost hear from far away but most have no chance to realize why and how because they never hear something from OpenBSD itself (other than from www.openbsd.org) and some due RTFM from irc. I think people who like to learn tend to listen more than they speak, but you also need someone talking to you. I learned so much just reading on the @openbsd lists and I feel I should have heard of it much sooner. If I had discovered it a few years sooner maybe I would be a happy contributor by now. And the motto can be something as blunt as hack up or put up, if it's how it works that's how it should read, big. Maybe something that implies less giving away than _Free_, Functional Secure. Those who care about the price will know. Just saying it with no other background creates an identity you can share for the things you like and enjoy. I think that like when registering a domain name, you are registering an image in people's mind : stubborn and hackers who have no fear speaking up the wrongs and like to patch them. Maybe this is too heroic, people don't get why one would want to do this. And at some point make it clear that it is heavily underrated and needs funding. Actually this is already done we know it is underrated and there is plenty to read about OpenBSD but, only for those who already reached it. You have to reach the top to enjoy the view. Reaching it is really unlikely but really worth it. Also advocacy@ feels quite empty compared to misc@. Bootstrapping is the right term, more than meta cross compiling, but this is still all about partial evaluation and reversing/translating it. -- Thomas de Grivel
Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)
On 04/22/11 05:03, Nick Holland wrote: On 04/19/11 16:10, Miod Vallat wrote: So if you want to contribute but don't know what to get, get a CD set (or several!). Noone will mind if you frame them and hang them on your wall; it's the thought which counts. Miod I'm gonna hate myself for this, but if it sends money to the project, it's worth it... I hereby declare OpenBSD CD sets to be The Next Beanie Baby/Webkins/iProduct thing. It's new, its trendy, and in six months, you need a new one. (that's how this works, right? Someone, somewhere declares that some toy or thing is the Must Have for the season, and all the world lines up to buy it? Gotta be something like that, let's see if I can make it work...) Careful, you have to make it look like an accident ! -- Thomas de Grivel
