Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009, Bob Beck wrote: Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. And then there's the other catagory... the breeders... No, you're forgetting the third category - the titanium clipped, whose ungrateful spawn are now 18 and will soon be old enough to be capable of leaving the house... Quick marco.. snip 'em before it gets worse! Yeah, them damn breeders, I've been saying that for years, but then people always blamed it on radical feminism. :-) diana
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
2009/4/4, Hannah Schroeter : > But IIRC it can be expensive between the UK and the Euro zone because > the UK doesn't have the Euro. I've understood the rules in the way that > the regulations apply only to transfers between countries that are both > in the EU *and* that have the Euro. I.e. not for the Vatican, or for the > UK. No, they apply to the EU. Transfers to the UK in should cost only the currency conversion; same for outgoing transfers in . See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro#Payments_clearing.2C_electronic_funds_trans fer http://www.euro.gov.uk/crossborder.asp Best Martin
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
Hi! On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 10:18:30AM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: >On 2009-04-03, Martin Schrvder wrote: >> 2009/4/3, Stuart Henderson : >>> cards, http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html, since UK to euro-zone >>> bank transfers are so expensive (cheapest is probably #8 for tipanet >>> transfers, other ways can be much more). >> The UK is in pe, so -transfers to and from the UK should cost (next >> to) nothing; all the usual rules for the zone apply. >the rule is not about the actual cost, it's that SEPA transfers >in euros should cost no more than domestic transfers in euros. >I haven't checked, but I suppose the banks handle this by making >a high charge for domestic transfers on their euro-denominated >accounts (which almost nobody has, anyway)... *nods* But IIRC it can be expensive between the UK and the Euro zone because the UK doesn't have the Euro. I've understood the rules in the way that the regulations apply only to transfers between countries that are both in the EU *and* that have the Euro. I.e. not for the Vatican, or for the UK. Kind regards, Hannah.
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On 2009-04-03, Martin Schrvder wrote: > 2009/4/3, Stuart Henderson : >> cards, http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html, since UK to euro-zone >> bank transfers are so expensive (cheapest is probably #8 for tipanet >> transfers, other ways can be much more). > > The UK is in pe, so -transfers to and from the UK should cost (next > to) nothing; all the usual rules for the zone apply. the rule is not about the actual cost, it's that SEPA transfers in euros should cost no more than domestic transfers in euros. I haven't checked, but I suppose the banks handle this by making a high charge for domestic transfers on their euro-denominated accounts (which almost nobody has, anyway)...
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
2009/4/3, Stuart Henderson : > cards, http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html, since UK to euro-zone > bank transfers are so expensive (cheapest is probably #8 for tipanet > transfers, other ways can be much more). The UK is in pe, so -transfers to and from the UK should cost (next to) nothing; all the usual rules for the zone apply. Best Martin
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On 2009-04-03, Lars Noodin wrote: > Theo de Raadt wrote: >> When you buy a CD from the Computer shop, 100% ends up in the Computer >> Shop accounts. > > Which is an option likely to make most everyone all around happy, but > maybe not so practical for outside of North America. > > Setting up a branch inside the Euro zone might be worth considering to > reduce the entropy for donations/CD sales to AT, BE, CY, FI, FR, DE, GR, > IE, IT, LU, MT, NL, PT, SK, SI, and ES. Euro zone donations are best sent to Theo's bank account in Germany, http://www.openbsd.org/bank-donation.html For UK donations it's usually more sensible to use PayPal or credit cards, http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html, since UK to euro-zone bank transfers are so expensive (cheapest is probably #8 for tipanet transfers, other ways can be much more). For CD orders there are plenty of euro-zone resellers listed on http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html, and though openbsdeurope.com is in the UK the prices are in euros. Just like the Nabootique. (and since it's EU you won't get randomly hit by charges for import duty).
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
Theo de Raadt wrote: > When you buy a CD from the Computer shop, 100% ends up in the Computer > Shop accounts. Which is an option likely to make most everyone all around happy, but maybe not so practical for outside of North America. Setting up a branch inside the Euro zone might be worth considering to reduce the entropy for donations/CD sales to AT, BE, CY, FI, FR, DE, GR, IE, IT, LU, MT, NL, PT, SK, SI, and ES. Even though the pound is weak, today 1 GBP = 1.09366 EUR, it does not officially accept Euro. Border areas in other countries often accept as well, though sometimes only unofficially. Regards, -Lars
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Theo de Raadt > wrote: > > I don't know how big people think the donations are, but sure, it is > > substantial. Yet it is not as much as these amounts above. The > > remaining is paid out of my salary, and yes, my salary is CD sales > > dependent. And yes, everyone including Nadine thinks that is a > > ridiculous situation, but so it is. > > OK, this gives me more impetus to buy CDs (I buy it off and on), but > quick question - when we buy CDs, and we donate - does that go > straight to you (ie, is part/whole of that your salary too, or is it > pigeon holed for something else?) When you buy a CD from a reseller like Wim, we apparently lose a lot because his previous debt is still unserviced. When you buy a CD from a reseller serviced by Wim, we also used to lose, but more recently we don't lose, and it comes out to around 60%. When you buy a CD from any other reseller who buys direct from the Computer Shop, 60% goes to the Computer Shop. When you buy a CD from the Computer shop, 100% ends up in the Computer Shop accounts. OK, so what happens after that. The Computer Shop deducts the costs of making the production, which includes the artwork, music, the actual disk prodution cost, and other parts of the building the package. Then they subtract a service fee, shall we say, for fullfillment of orders and all that kind of stuff. After that, they pay me a salary, and I suppose, save a bit more in some other way for the rainy days when CD sales are lower. Or as they had to do over the last few years -- they pay extra from a previous rainy day fund because a distributor has not paid his bills on time. > I work for a living, and would hate to see my income drop. I would > much prefer to be able to help send things along the right way. Yup. Definately.
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:21 PM, bofh wrote: > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Theo de Raadt > wrote: > > I don't know how big people think the donations are, but sure, it is > > substantial. Yet it is not as much as these amounts above. The > > remaining is paid out of my salary, and yes, my salary is CD sales > > dependent. And yes, everyone including Nadine thinks that is a > > ridiculous situation, but so it is. > > OK, this gives me more impetus to buy CDs (I buy it off and on), but > quick question - when we buy CDs, and we donate - does that go > straight to you (ie, is part/whole of that your salary too, or is it > pigeon holed for something else?) > > I work for a living, and would hate to see my income drop. I would > much prefer to be able to help send things along the right way. > > Thanks. I think if you look through the 140 or so posts of this thread (i.e., the "European orders" thread) you'll find your answer, rather than asking Theo to divulge even more private info. > > > > -- > http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk > "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." > -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. > "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or > internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks > factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford > learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related > > -- www.nealhogan.net www.lambdaserver.com
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > I don't know how big people think the donations are, but sure, it is > substantial. Yet it is not as much as these amounts above. The > remaining is paid out of my salary, and yes, my salary is CD sales > dependent. And yes, everyone including Nadine thinks that is a > ridiculous situation, but so it is. OK, this gives me more impetus to buy CDs (I buy it off and on), but quick question - when we buy CDs, and we donate - does that go straight to you (ie, is part/whole of that your salary too, or is it pigeon holed for something else?) I work for a living, and would hate to see my income drop. I would much prefer to be able to help send things along the right way. Thanks. -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
"Work hard, play harder. Oh what, just because you are you, you dont get to have a life? Fuck that. No need to justify anything in that regard." +1, as others have done already. I regret not having been able to donate the last 18 months or so, maybe longer. But it's only because of my personal financial issues. Hopefully I'll get back to buying multiple sets and donating cash. On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:32 PM, David Schulz wrote: > Work hard, play harder. Oh what, just because you are you, you dont get to > have a life? Fuck that. No need to justify anything in that regard. > > Hopefull even after all this you and other Devs still have all the motivation > it takes to keep making the OpenBSD Project better and better; > > Having some sort of Report once a year about Donation Money or even also the > CD and Shirt Sales money and where it goes would help to shut up even the > most ignorant. Reports possibly ala' FreeBSD Foundation; but if not, not; i > personally have no doubt that you are the last Guy how would enrich himself > on Money donated to OpenBSD, screw that. > > regards, > David > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 10:11:07PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: >> > So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? >> >> There are people being misled that I pay for this extravagant >> lifestyle out of donations. Hah. Shame on those people who spread >> that rumour, and also shame on those who are so easily deceived. >> >> I hike near conferences that I am invited to; flights paid for. I >> hike near hackathons that I must attend with developers -- hackathons >> tend to be near hiking areas but I am not alone in preferring this >> (our hackathon locations are otherwise chosen for "cheap accomodation >> with free internet2"... perhaps internet2 usage is correleted to good >> terrain..). Once a year I pay with my hard earned salary for a trip >> to hike somewhere. Then one further time a year I use the reward >> points -- from all my other flights and hackathon hotel bills and >> developer flights paid with donation money -- to get to another hiking >> destination. >> >> Yes... I have to take time off to do this, but as many of you know >> when I get back from a trip I go through all the thousands of mails I >> received and the project moves on. And between hikes in a foreign >> country I find insecure ways to partially get in touch a bit and some >> developers really hate that. I work hard. When I don't hike, and >> especially during pre-release times, I sometimes don't get outside for >> days at a time except on forced 10km runs. >> >> Extravagant? No. Just a life choice. >> >> I have had people accuse me privately of this. I hope others are not >> so easily deceived. >> >> Trust me, with the OpenBSD donations are a loss. Just look at this >> page, and estimate the hotel bills: >> >> http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html >> >> After you estimate those numbers, where would I find money to spend on >> even a slurpee? Gimme a fucking break... Donations help a lot, but >> they are not the whole picture. That is why we are so eager -- as a >> project -- get the money that Wim has taken from us, because it will >> help OpenBSD run more hackathons. The systems code you are running, >> almost half of it came from hackathons. >> >> > If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful >> > product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if >> > he doesn't play well with others at times). >> >> It's a deal. >> >> > It's too bad the project >> > doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of >> > the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live >> > a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. >> >> Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. > > -- 2nd Annual R2 Poker Ride http://lodesertprotosites.org/sites.html Dethink to survive - Mclusky
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
> Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. > > And then there's the other catagory... the breeders... > No, you're forgetting the third category - the titanium clipped, whose ungrateful spawn are now 18 and will soon be old enough to be capable of leaving the house... Quick marco.. snip 'em before it gets worse!
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
Does anybody here remember the sound and fury quite a few years back when Theo (or someone) posted a picture of his new bike shortly after a release -- I can't seem to find it in the archives. Anyhow, it's not all that important. The point is that suckers like me -- I've made a couple of paltry donations, but mostly I've just taken years of awesome code from Theo and the other developers -- really don't have any say in how the project operates. Giving money to OpenBSD doesn't put you on the board of directors -- hell, it doesn't even make you a share holder. You give your *donations* to Theo and expect -- in good faith -- that he'll spend them wisely to further OpenBSD development; this doesn't entitle you to demand reporting on exactly how they're spent. If you don't like it, then stop donating. When it comes to his *salary*, Theo is entitled to spend his money however he damned well pleases -- being an open source developer does not condemn one to a life of asceticism (not that hiking/backpacking/mountain biking is exactly an extravagant lifestyle anyhow). It's a shame that there's a rift between Wim and Theo -- I've never dealt with Wim on any level, but like pretty much everyone else here has had good impressions about him over the years. I could hope that this issue will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction, but I'm realistic about Theo's abrasive nature, so I'm not holding my breath ;) Regardless, the project will no doubt move forward, and beer-loving Europeans (and Americans)* will no doubt still be able to get the software one way or another and give their money to the project in some form or fashion. *Canadians apparently fall in this group too. On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: >> So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? > > There are people being misled that I pay for this extravagant > lifestyle out of donations. Hah. Shame on those people who spread > that rumour, and also shame on those who are so easily deceived. > > I hike near conferences that I am invited to; flights paid for. I > hike near hackathons that I must attend with developers -- hackathons > tend to be near hiking areas but I am not alone in preferring this > (our hackathon locations are otherwise chosen for "cheap accomodation > with free internet2"... perhaps internet2 usage is correleted to good > terrain..). Once a year I pay with my hard earned salary for a trip > to hike somewhere. Then one further time a year I use the reward > points -- from all my other flights and hackathon hotel bills and > developer flights paid with donation money -- to get to another hiking > destination. > > Yes... I have to take time off to do this, but as many of you know > when I get back from a trip I go through all the thousands of mails I > received and the project moves on. And between hikes in a foreign > country I find insecure ways to partially get in touch a bit and some > developers really hate that. I work hard. When I don't hike, and > especially during pre-release times, I sometimes don't get outside for > days at a time except on forced 10km runs. > > Extravagant? No. Just a life choice. > > I have had people accuse me privately of this. I hope others are not > so easily deceived. > > Trust me, with the OpenBSD donations are a loss. Just look at this > page, and estimate the hotel bills: > >http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html > > After you estimate those numbers, where would I find money to spend on > even a slurpee? Gimme a fucking break... Donations help a lot, but > they are not the whole picture. That is why we are so eager -- as a > project -- get the money that Wim has taken from us, because it will > help OpenBSD run more hackathons. The systems code you are running, > almost half of it came from hackathons. > >> If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful >> product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if >> he doesn't play well with others at times). > > It's a deal. > >> It's too bad the project >> doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of >> the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live >> a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. > > Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. > > And then there's the other catagory... the breeders... > > -- Systems Programmer, Principal Electrical & Computer Engineering The University of Arizona ma...@arizona.edu
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:16:31 -0700 "J.C. Roberts" wrote: > On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:11:07 -0600 Theo de Raadt > wrote: > > > I work hard. > > I know you do! -- I look at your work every day. I use said work every day. The results I see and the work being put into this project is more than enough for me to want to donate. I don't care what the project does with my money; it was a gift, a thank you for your hard work (and a hope that it will continue). However, when I buy a CD-set it is not for the product (that's available online anyway) but in the belief that OpenBSD will benefit from my purchase. When that seems to have not been the case with KD85, I really appreciate Theo taking the time to explain the situation. He does not have to, but doing so is, IMO, being respectful and patient towards the people donating. At any rate, this whole thing does not change anything for me. I just feel sad for the OpenBSD project that they did not get what they expected from CD sales in Europe.
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:11:07 -0600 Theo de Raadt wrote: > I work hard. I know you do! -- I look at your work every day. As promised, I won't comment publicly on the situation but I hope you won't be offended if a no-code nobody like me gives you a reminder; You have absolutely no reason to let either the ignorance or malice of others troll you into divulging or defending any details of your personal life. Your private life is your own choice, and no one deserves to be told anything about it. What you decide to share about your life, is also your choice, but I *hate* seeing you provoked into both revealing your life to correct misinformation and trying to defend your life choices. Liars will lie, and fools think they're smart; publicly correcting their technical mistakes is one thing, but publicly correcting their mistakes regarding your personal life is a completely different matter. You do not owe anything to anyone, particularly about your personal life, so please don't let the fools and liars goad you into giving more than you already give. Kind Regards, J.C. Roberts
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
> Having some sort of Report once a year about Donation Money or even also the > CD and Shirt Sales money and where it goes would help to shut up even the > most ignorant. Reports possibly ala' FreeBSD Foundation; but if not, not; i > personally have no doubt that you are the last Guy how would enrich himself > on Money donated to OpenBSD, screw that. Out of donations received by me, a rough accounting. I am estimating parts of it because I cannot make time to dig through the file. c2k8 [the foundation paid for the hackspace/sleepspace] ~7 developers had their travel paid, $11,000 p2k8 11 developers paid their own travel 2 had their travel paid from donations - $1800 hotel - a bit less than $5000, if I recall h2k8 11 developers paid their own travel 5 had their travel paid from donations - $4000 hotel - a bit less than $8000 n2k9 16 developers paid their own travel 3 had their travel paid from donations - $3000 hotel - a bit more than $8000, if I recall right c2k9 [the foundation will pay for the hackspace/sleepspace] 6 developers flights already paid - $10,000 Anyone upset about their donations being spent that way? If you want to know how we all benefited from the spending donnation money on the hackathons please look at http://www.openbsd.org/plus.html and follow the release links at the top to; bracket the hackathons before the release, and you can guess what happened at a particular hackathon. I don't know how big people think the donations are, but sure, it is substantial. Yet it is not as much as these amounts above. The remaining is paid out of my salary, and yes, my salary is CD sales dependent. And yes, everyone including Nadine thinks that is a ridiculous situation, but so it is. As can be seen above, other expenses are handled by the OpenBSD Foundation, which is financially entirely independent of me. I have no say over what they do. Like you all, I can simply thank them for accepting contributions in the way they are fiscally permitted to, and then helping to pay for the things which they deem worthy. For instance, the big hackathons are run by them. Hopefully some smaller ones eventually, too. When you see me in another thread mentioning that Wim only transferring 1000+2402 EUR donation money to the project for the last 5 years or so, you can get a clearer picture. Since all the other things he bought for OpenBSD over the the last 5+ years have now been charged back to the Computer Shop, it is just not plausible that this is the sum of donations from Europe. Is Europe that cheap, or is there another explanation? A note -- this money is received as gifts. Then it is spent against project things, and each expenditure of course it generates a receipt. But that receipt cannot be written off against anyone's taxes. And it isn't. Doing so would be fraud. It isn't an expense since there is no income. It is a zero sum game, except for the Aeroplan points :)
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
> Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. > > And then there's the other catagory... the breeders... I swear it was by accident!!
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
The product (OpenBSD) speeks for itself. +1 -- Thanks, Jordi Espasa Clofent
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
+ 1 here Not only the product speaks for itself, but the fact that you develop it so openly and allow free downloads. Thanks Alf, that is what I tried to say in my long-winded message a couple of days ago. - William J. Chivers Lecturer in Information Technology School of DCIT Faculty of Science and Information Technology University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 Australia CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J phone: +61 2 4349 4473 fax: +61 2 4349 4565 email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au - >>> Alf Schlichting 04/02/09 6:49 PM >>> Theo, as far as i am concerned (and most likely the majority of OpenBSD users) there is no need for you to justify yourself (or any other developer) in public. The product (OpenBSD) speeks for itself. Alf P.S.: To me the sentence about hiking on Wim's page looks like a silly rethoric trick that gives the rest of his text an objectionable taste. On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 10:11:07PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? > > There are people being misled that I pay for this extravagant > lifestyle out of donations. Hah. Shame on those people who spread > that rumour, and also shame on those who are so easily deceived. > > I hike near conferences that I am invited to; flights paid for. I > hike near hackathons that I must attend with developers -- hackathons > tend to be near hiking areas but I am not alone in preferring this > (our hackathon locations are otherwise chosen for "cheap accomodation > with free internet2"... perhaps internet2 usage is correleted to good > terrain..). Once a year I pay with my hard earned salary for a trip > to hike somewhere. Then one further time a year I use the reward > points -- from all my other flights and hackathon hotel bills and > developer flights paid with donation money -- to get to another hiking > destination. > > Yes... I have to take time off to do this, but as many of you know > when I get back from a trip I go through all the thousands of mails I > received and the project moves on. And between hikes in a foreign > country I find insecure ways to partially get in touch a bit and some > developers really hate that. I work hard. When I don't hike, and > especially during pre-release times, I sometimes don't get outside for > days at a time except on forced 10km runs. > > Extravagant? No. Just a life choice. > > I have had people accuse me privately of this. I hope others are not > so easily deceived. > > Trust me, with the OpenBSD donations are a loss. Just look at this > page, and estimate the hotel bills: > > http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html > > After you estimate those numbers, where would I find money to spend on > even a slurpee? Gimme a fucking break... Donations help a lot, but > they are not the whole picture. That is why we are so eager -- as a > project -- get the money that Wim has taken from us, because it will > help OpenBSD run more hackathons. The systems code you are running, > almost half of it came from hackathons. > > > If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful > > product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if > > he doesn't play well with others at times). > > It's a deal. > > > It's too bad the project > > doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of > > the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live > > a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. > > Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. > > And then there's the other catagory... the breeders...
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On 02.04-09:49, Alf Schlichting wrote: [ ... ] > as far as i am concerned (and most likely the majority of OpenBSD > users) there is no need for you to justify yourself (or any other > developer) in public. > The product (OpenBSD) speeks for itself. +1
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
Theo, as far as i am concerned (and most likely the majority of OpenBSD users) there is no need for you to justify yourself (or any other developer) in public. The product (OpenBSD) speeks for itself. Alf P.S.: To me the sentence about hiking on Wim's page looks like a silly rethoric trick that gives the rest of his text an objectionable taste. On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 10:11:07PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? > > There are people being misled that I pay for this extravagant > lifestyle out of donations. Hah. Shame on those people who spread > that rumour, and also shame on those who are so easily deceived. > > I hike near conferences that I am invited to; flights paid for. I > hike near hackathons that I must attend with developers -- hackathons > tend to be near hiking areas but I am not alone in preferring this > (our hackathon locations are otherwise chosen for "cheap accomodation > with free internet2"... perhaps internet2 usage is correleted to good > terrain..). Once a year I pay with my hard earned salary for a trip > to hike somewhere. Then one further time a year I use the reward > points -- from all my other flights and hackathon hotel bills and > developer flights paid with donation money -- to get to another hiking > destination. > > Yes... I have to take time off to do this, but as many of you know > when I get back from a trip I go through all the thousands of mails I > received and the project moves on. And between hikes in a foreign > country I find insecure ways to partially get in touch a bit and some > developers really hate that. I work hard. When I don't hike, and > especially during pre-release times, I sometimes don't get outside for > days at a time except on forced 10km runs. > > Extravagant? No. Just a life choice. > > I have had people accuse me privately of this. I hope others are not > so easily deceived. > > Trust me, with the OpenBSD donations are a loss. Just look at this > page, and estimate the hotel bills: > > http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html > > After you estimate those numbers, where would I find money to spend on > even a slurpee? Gimme a fucking break... Donations help a lot, but > they are not the whole picture. That is why we are so eager -- as a > project -- get the money that Wim has taken from us, because it will > help OpenBSD run more hackathons. The systems code you are running, > almost half of it came from hackathons. > > > If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful > > product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if > > he doesn't play well with others at times). > > It's a deal. > > > It's too bad the project > > doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of > > the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live > > a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. > > Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. > > And then there's the other catagory... the breeders...
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
Work hard, play harder. Oh what, just because you are you, you dont get to have a life? Fuck that. No need to justify anything in that regard. Hopefull even after all this you and other Devs still have all the motivation it takes to keep making the OpenBSD Project better and better; Having some sort of Report once a year about Donation Money or even also the CD and Shirt Sales money and where it goes would help to shut up even the most ignorant. Reports possibly ala' FreeBSD Foundation; but if not, not; i personally have no doubt that you are the last Guy how would enrich himself on Money donated to OpenBSD, screw that. regards, David On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 10:11:07PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? > > There are people being misled that I pay for this extravagant > lifestyle out of donations. Hah. Shame on those people who spread > that rumour, and also shame on those who are so easily deceived. > > I hike near conferences that I am invited to; flights paid for. I > hike near hackathons that I must attend with developers -- hackathons > tend to be near hiking areas but I am not alone in preferring this > (our hackathon locations are otherwise chosen for "cheap accomodation > with free internet2"... perhaps internet2 usage is correleted to good > terrain..). Once a year I pay with my hard earned salary for a trip > to hike somewhere. Then one further time a year I use the reward > points -- from all my other flights and hackathon hotel bills and > developer flights paid with donation money -- to get to another hiking > destination. > > Yes... I have to take time off to do this, but as many of you know > when I get back from a trip I go through all the thousands of mails I > received and the project moves on. And between hikes in a foreign > country I find insecure ways to partially get in touch a bit and some > developers really hate that. I work hard. When I don't hike, and > especially during pre-release times, I sometimes don't get outside for > days at a time except on forced 10km runs. > > Extravagant? No. Just a life choice. > > I have had people accuse me privately of this. I hope others are not > so easily deceived. > > Trust me, with the OpenBSD donations are a loss. Just look at this > page, and estimate the hotel bills: > > http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html > > After you estimate those numbers, where would I find money to spend on > even a slurpee? Gimme a fucking break... Donations help a lot, but > they are not the whole picture. That is why we are so eager -- as a > project -- get the money that Wim has taken from us, because it will > help OpenBSD run more hackathons. The systems code you are running, > almost half of it came from hackathons. > > > If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful > > product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if > > he doesn't play well with others at times). > > It's a deal. > > > It's too bad the project > > doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of > > the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live > > a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. > > Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it.
Re: Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
> So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? There are people being misled that I pay for this extravagant lifestyle out of donations. Hah. Shame on those people who spread that rumour, and also shame on those who are so easily deceived. I hike near conferences that I am invited to; flights paid for. I hike near hackathons that I must attend with developers -- hackathons tend to be near hiking areas but I am not alone in preferring this (our hackathon locations are otherwise chosen for "cheap accomodation with free internet2"... perhaps internet2 usage is correleted to good terrain..). Once a year I pay with my hard earned salary for a trip to hike somewhere. Then one further time a year I use the reward points -- from all my other flights and hackathon hotel bills and developer flights paid with donation money -- to get to another hiking destination. Yes... I have to take time off to do this, but as many of you know when I get back from a trip I go through all the thousands of mails I received and the project moves on. And between hikes in a foreign country I find insecure ways to partially get in touch a bit and some developers really hate that. I work hard. When I don't hike, and especially during pre-release times, I sometimes don't get outside for days at a time except on forced 10km runs. Extravagant? No. Just a life choice. I have had people accuse me privately of this. I hope others are not so easily deceived. Trust me, with the OpenBSD donations are a loss. Just look at this page, and estimate the hotel bills: http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html After you estimate those numbers, where would I find money to spend on even a slurpee? Gimme a fucking break... Donations help a lot, but they are not the whole picture. That is why we are so eager -- as a project -- get the money that Wim has taken from us, because it will help OpenBSD run more hackathons. The systems code you are running, almost half of it came from hackathons. > If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful > product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if > he doesn't play well with others at times). It's a deal. > It's too bad the project > doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of > the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live > a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. Others are trying to do it too, but they are just more quiet about it. And then there's the other catagory... the breeders...
Donations (was, sadly, European orders)
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:39 PM, new_guy wrote: > I'm in the US and I've bought > CDs, t-shirts and made a few donations. > OpenBSD is the *only* project I have ever given my hard-earned money to > although I use other operating systems... I have a similar story. The sheer simplicity and forethought that goes into this beautiful OS is what made me personally purchase shirts, CDs and give cash as well. I have also persuaded businesses to contribute/purchase media where the software has been deployed. So what if it's founder lives a mountain biking/hiking lifestyle? If I can give him that and he can continue to provide this wonderful product for "free," I'm happy to help him live his lifestyle (even if he doesn't play well with others at times). It's too bad the project doesn't have greater financial backing to allow more development of the OS goodness we enjoy--and also allow more "OpenBSD people" to live a Theo-like lifestyle, if they so choose. I do believe one day we will all rank a person's success not by their net worth, but by their impassioned contributions to humanity.
