Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
Darren Tucker [dtuc...@zip.com.au] wrote: On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net wrote: Why not just get a Soekris 5501 or a similar PC Engines ALIX, +1 for the ALIX (I've got two alix2d3 and have been very happy with them) they can do 100Mbps with the improved vr ethernet driver these days. Have you been able to get more than 85Mbit/s out of a single interface on an ALIX? 85 was the best I could get when playing the tx interrupt mitigation stuff[1] but it had plenty of spare CPU. My guess was it was maxing out the NIC hardware, and that turning off checksum offloading would make it go faster at the cost of more CPU usage although I never tested that. [1] http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20130201054156 Your're right, I didn't reach a full 100Mbps, although I recall getting 90+ on file transfers to local MFS, with cksum enabled. I won't swear to that ;)
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On 15 November 2013 16:03, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS Soekris has been used with OpenBSD for a very long time throughout many releases, so, if you like what you see, that's exactly what you're going to get. Their brand is actually very well known. However, their hardware is not particularly competitive in the price department, and, incidentally, is also quite known for being an excellent tool to fine-tune overall OpenBSD performance under very stressful network scenarios, which don't take much effort to generate (especially on their pre-GigE hardware, but a 600MHz Atom is probably not that much different). If you only need two NICs, there are many alternatives that are priced considerably lower than Soekris, and provide a better value; some are still fanless and already have two GigE NICs on board. The net6501-30-board-case above, w/ 600 MHz Intel Atom and soldered 0.5GB of DDR2 RAM, is 310 USD, plus psu-12v-3-0a-world is 20 USD extra, for a total of 330 USD + tax/shipping/handling. Plus you'll need some storage device. A quick search today reveals Shuttle DS47 -- fanless, dual GigE, two COM ports, lots of USB 3.0, accepts up to 16GB of DDR3, probably supported by the latest OpenBSD release, especially if you only need it for a router (might have to use 5.4-current due to http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/dev/ic/re.c#rev1.145). 220 USD, with a choice of multiple retailers to buy from, plus a little extra for a lot more DDR3 than the soldered 0.5GB of the Soekris. http://global.shuttle.com/main/productsDetail?productId=1718 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101145 http://www.amazon.com/SHUTTLE-DS47-Celeron-1-1GHz-Barebone/dp/B00DK06L6O?keywords=%222x+RJ45%22+barebone Foxconn also makes nice barebones -- they're even cheaper than Shuttle. However, if you don't require solid GigE performance, and are looking for just 100Mbps routing throughput for a home-router project, my advice is to buy a netbook -- they go for 200 to 250 USD nowadays, plus an external USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter is 10 to 20 USD. Most cheap USB Ethernet adapters are supported nowadays, especially on OpenBSD. With a netbook-based OpenBSD router, you'll have a complementary UPS, plus a diagnostic display w/ keyboard (alas with no serial), plus a fast SSD or HDD that's also included. And the price is the same as, or even lower than, any of the alternatives that would not have any such features. You really can't beat the value by going with a netbook, unless you do require 4x 1Gbps, x2, which you aren't going to get with a 600MHz Atom-based Soekris, either. C.
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
for sure it’s a good device with openbsd, only price is sometimes an issue. I have been using it for more then 8 years now and works great, never had an hardware failure. Even the oldest devices are still up and running but are getting to slow.. On 16 Nov 2013, at 01:03, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On 16 November 2013 10:05, Constantine A. Murenin muren...@gmail.com wrote: ...if you don't require solid GigE performance, and are looking for just 100Mbps routing throughput for a home-router project, my advice is to buy a netbook -- they go for 200 to 250 USD nowadays, plus an external USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter is 10 to 20 USD. Most cheap USB Ethernet adapters are supported nowadays, especially on OpenBSD. With a netbook-based OpenBSD router, you'll have a complementary UPS, plus a diagnostic display w/ keyboard (alas with no serial), plus a fast SSD or HDD that's also included. And the price is the same as, or even lower than, any of the alternatives that would not have any such features. You really can't beat the value by going with a netbook, unless you do require 4x 1Gbps, x2, which you aren't going to get with a 600MHz Atom-based Soekris, either. Do all netbooks nowadays allow clamshell operation though (i.e. running the thing at full throttle with the lid closed)? Because a long time ago, I used to own an Apple laptop (not a netbook, admittedly) that did NOT allow clamshell operation; it would unconditionally go to sleep when you closed the lid – and even though there were some published hacks to overrule Apple's choice and make it run with the lid closed and only the display off, this was deemed risky, because it wasn't clear if in that case heat-buildup under the display would become a (screen-melting) issue. I'm not claiming that that's a risk you'll run with netbooks these days; I genuinely don't know and I'm genuinely asking. --ropers
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
Constantine A. Murenin [muren...@gmail.com] wrote: However, if you don't require solid GigE performance, and are looking for just 100Mbps routing throughput for a home-router project, my advice is to buy a netbook -- they go for 200 to 250 USD nowadays, plus an external USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter is 10 to 20 USD. Most cheap USB Ethernet adapters are supported nowadays, especially on OpenBSD. A netbook? USB nic? No, that's junk. Sounds like an unreliable recipe for disaster. Why not just get a Soekris 5501 or a similar PC Engines ALIX, they can do 100Mbps with the improved vr ethernet driver these days. The PC Engines is $100 USD and has 3 ethernet ports. PC Engines is coming out with a new model pcengines.ch/apu.htm that will cost roughly $130-150USD if you can wait another 3 or 4 months. If you don't mind netbooting, you can use a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite for $99. The USB isn't supported yet under OpenBSD. There are probably some viable armv7 options these days too that might be less than $100.
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 08:27, Chris Cappuccio wrote: If you don't mind netbooting, you can use a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite for $99. that's a pretty serious chicken and egg for me. my router is the machine that everything else netboots from... Anyway, another idea is this thing from newegg. I have one. It's not quite so industrial hardened as soekris, but also cheaper and more real PC like. If you happen to have all the needed barebones parts (who doesn't? :)), it's pretty cheap. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 08:27:28AM -0800, Chris Cappuccio wrote: Constantine A. Murenin [muren...@gmail.com] wrote: However, if you don't require solid GigE performance, and are looking for just 100Mbps routing throughput for a home-router project, my advice is to buy a netbook -- they go for 200 to 250 USD nowadays, plus an external USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter is 10 to 20 USD. Most cheap USB Ethernet adapters are supported nowadays, especially on OpenBSD. A netbook? USB nic? No, that's junk. Sounds like an unreliable recipe for disaster. Why not just get a Soekris 5501 or a similar PC Engines ALIX, they can do 100Mbps with the improved vr ethernet driver these days. The PC Engines is $100 USD and has 3 ethernet ports. PC Engines is coming out with a new model pcengines.ch/apu.htm that will cost roughly $130-150USD if you can wait another 3 or 4 months. If you don't mind netbooting, you can use a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite for $99. The USB isn't supported yet under OpenBSD. There are probably some viable armv7 options these days too that might be less than $100. I don't recommend armv7 for production. Despite of the big efforts of some devs, the platform needs a lot of work and testing. -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 01:30:28PM +0100, ropers wrote: On 16 November 2013 10:05, Constantine A. Murenin muren...@gmail.com wrote: ...if you don't require solid GigE performance, and are looking for just 100Mbps routing throughput for a home-router project, my advice is to buy a netbook -- they go for 200 to 250 USD nowadays, plus an external USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter is 10 to 20 USD. Most cheap USB Ethernet adapters are supported nowadays, especially on OpenBSD. With a netbook-based OpenBSD router, you'll have a complementary UPS, plus a diagnostic display w/ keyboard (alas with no serial), plus a fast SSD or HDD that's also included. And the price is the same as, or even lower than, any of the alternatives that would not have any such features. You really can't beat the value by going with a netbook, unless you do require 4x 1Gbps, x2, which you aren't going to get with a 600MHz Atom-based Soekris, either. Do all netbooks nowadays allow clamshell operation though (i.e. running the thing at full throttle with the lid closed)? On OpenBSD, yes. Because a long time ago, I used to own an Apple laptop (not a netbook, admittedly) that did NOT allow clamshell operation; it would unconditionally go to sleep when you closed the lid – and even though there were some published hacks to overrule Apple's choice and make it run with the lid closed and only the display off, this was deemed risky, because it wasn't clear if in that case heat-buildup under the display would become a (screen-melting) issue. I'm not claiming that that's a risk you'll run with netbooks these days; I genuinely don't know and I'm genuinely asking. --ropers -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net wrote: Why not just get a Soekris 5501 or a similar PC Engines ALIX, +1 for the ALIX (I've got two alix2d3 and have been very happy with them) they can do 100Mbps with the improved vr ethernet driver these days. Have you been able to get more than 85Mbit/s out of a single interface on an ALIX? 85 was the best I could get when playing the tx interrupt mitigation stuff[1] but it had plenty of spare CPU. My guess was it was maxing out the NIC hardware, and that turning off checksum offloading would make it go faster at the cost of more CPU usage although I never tested that. [1] http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20130201054156 -- Darren Tucker (dtucker at zip.com.au) GPG key 8FF4FA69 / D9A3 86E9 7EEE AF4B B2D4 37C9 C982 80C7 8FF4 FA69 Good judgement comes with experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgement.
Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
OpenBSD is listed under Software on the page you linked. As I understand it the people who developed CARP did it on Soekris hardware, and this demo was done using soekris 4801's. (but don't quote me on that, my memory is hazy). https://web.archive.org/web/20060323025207/http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/01/02/1643229.shtml?tid=8tid=18 On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On 11/16/13 13:03, SmithS wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS I've got a rack-mounted net6501-50 working well at the moment, but I've only been using it for a few weeks so far. Not sure all the components work, but it was easy to install OpenBSD 5.3 to a USB stick, boot off that, then install to an SSD. You have to connect with a serial cable, I've found a cheap USB-serial adapter connected to a null modem cable to work well. Any issues I've had - Google has given the answers. 8-) Also got a 5501 in use and that's been working well, too. dmesg from the 6501: $ dmesg OpenBSD 5.3 (GENERIC) #0: Wed Aug 28 19:46:41 NZST 2013 r...@abc.def.co.nz:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC cpu0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU @ 1.00GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 1.01 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,MOVBE,LAHF,PERF real mem = 1073131520 (1023MB) avail mem = 1044611072 (996MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 20/21/15, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfac40 mpbios0 at bios0: Intel MP Specification 1.4 cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 100MHz cpu at mainbus0: not configured mpbios0: bus 0 is type PCI mpbios0: bus 64 is type ISA ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 0 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.0 @ 0xf/0x1 pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xf3880/96 (4 entries) pcibios0: no compatible PCI ICU found: ICU vendor 0x8086 product 0x8186 pcibios0: Warning, unable to fix up PCI interrupt routing pcibios0: PCI bus #13 is the last bus bios0: ROM list: 0xc8000/0x2400 0xca800/0x4c00 0xcf800/0xee00 cpu0: unknown Enhanced SpeedStep CPU, msr 0x06090a0a06000a0d cpu0: using only highest, current and lowest power states cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1001 MHz: speeds: 1000, 1000, 600 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel E600 Host rev 0x05 pchb1 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel E600 Config rev 0x00 ppb0 at pci0 dev 23 function 0 Intel E600 PCIE rev 0x00 pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 ppb1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel EG20T PCIE rev 0x01 pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 Intel EG20T Packet Hub rev 0x01 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 not configured Intel EG20T Ethernet rev 0x02 at pci2 dev 0 function 1 not configured Intel EG20T GPIO rev 0x01 at pci2 dev 0 function 2 not configured ohci0 at pci2 dev 2 function 0 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 19, version 1.0 ohci1 at pci2 dev 2 function 1 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 19, version 1.0 ohci2 at pci2 dev 2 function 2 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 19, version 1.0 ehci0 at pci2 dev 2 function 3 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 19 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 Intel EG20T USB Client rev 0x02 at pci2 dev 2 function 4 not configured sdhc0 at pci2 dev 4 function 0 Intel EG20T SDIO rev 0x01: apic 0 int 18 sdmmc0 at sdhc0 sdhc1 at pci2 dev 4 function 1 Intel EG20T SDIO rev 0x01: apic 0 int 18 sdmmc1 at sdhc1 ahci0 at pci2 dev 6 function 0 Intel EG20T AHCI rev 0x02: msi, AHCI 1.1 scsibus0 at ahci0: 32 targets sd0 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: ATA, INTEL SSDMAEXC02, 9CV1 SCSI3 0/direct fixed naa.5001517803d66c24 sd0: 19087MB, 512 bytes/sector, 39091248 sectors, thin ohci3 at pci2 dev 8 function 0 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 16, version 1.0 ohci4 at pci2 dev 8 function 1 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 16, version 1.0 ohci5 at pci2 dev 8 function 2 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 16, version 1.0 ehci1 at pci2 dev 8 function 3 Intel EG20T USB rev 0x02: apic 0 int 16 usb1 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 Intel EG20T DMA rev 0x00 at pci2 dev 10 function 0 not configured puc0 at pci2 dev 10 function 1 Intel EG20T Serial rev 0x01: ports: 1 com com3 at puc0 port 0 apic 0 int 19: ti16750, 64 byte fifo puc1 at pci2 dev 10 function 2 Intel EG20T Serial rev 0x00: ports: 1 com com4 at puc1 port 0 apic 0 int 19: ti16750, 64 byte fifo puc2 at pci2 dev 10 function 3 Intel EG20T Serial rev 0x00: ports: 1 com com5 at puc2 port 0 apic 0 int 19: ti16750, 64 byte fifo puc3 at pci2 dev 10 function 4 Intel EG20T Serial rev 0x00: ports: 1 com com6 at puc3 port 0 apic 0 int 19: ti16750, 64 byte fifo Intel EG20T DMA rev 0x00 at pci2 dev 12 function 0 not configured Intel EG20T SPI rev 0x00 at pci2 dev 12 function 1 not configured Intel EG20T I2C rev 0x00 at
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
I have an old net4511 running 5.4. It’s too old/slow to route but it’s too fun to not have running because how many other OS’es can run on a 486 100MHz with 32MB RAM? On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:03 PM, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
Learning to search the archives is a very useful skill: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscw=2r=1s=soekrisq=b On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:03 PM, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
I'm not sure what you mean by too slow to route. I've a net4501 with 64mb of RAM that's handling all of my IP traffic at home. Biggest problem is swapping taking out available interrupts. Modern networks are actually just too fast for the hardware these days. It works fine for home stuff. On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:39 PM, jordon open...@sirjorj.com wrote: I have an old net4511 running 5.4. It’s too old/slow to route but it’s too fun to not have running because how many other OS’es can run on a 486 100MHz with 32MB RAM? On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:03 PM, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
A few years back I put m0n0wall (FreeBSD-based) on it, hooked it up to 2 machines (1 WAN, 1 LAN) and pushed a file through it. Its max bandwidth was well under my Internet connection speed. It was replaced with a net5501. On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Johan Beisser j...@caustic.org wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by too slow to route. I've a net4501 with 64mb of RAM that's handling all of my IP traffic at home. Biggest problem is swapping taking out available interrupts. Modern networks are actually just too fast for the hardware these days. It works fine for home stuff. On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:39 PM, jordon open...@sirjorj.com wrote: I have an old net4511 running 5.4. It’s too old/slow to route but it’s too fun to not have running because how many other OS’es can run on a 486 100MHz with 32MB RAM? On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:03 PM, SmithS smit...@hush.ai wrote: Greetings misc@. After coming across a link[1] to make an OpenBSD router using a Soekris device, I think I will make one. Does anyone else have this hardware and can verify all the components work? I think Intel NICs are good, but everything else? I have never heard of this brand before so I want to be safe before buying. The model number[2] is 6501-30 [1] http://www.bsdnow.tv/tutorials/openbsd-router [2] https://soekris.com/products/net6501/net6501-30-board-case.html greetz, SmithS
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Johan Beisser wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by too slow to route. I've a net4501 with 64mb of RAM that's handling all of my IP traffic at home. Biggest problem is swapping taking out available interrupts. Back in the day I used full-size PCs with processor and memory specs similar to a net4501 with no issues. Some of them even had enough disk space left over to run Squid. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com
Re: Is Soekris OpenBSD friendly?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:00 PM, jordon open...@sirjorj.com wrote: A few years back I put m0n0wall (FreeBSD-based) on it, hooked it up to 2 machines (1 WAN, 1 LAN) and pushed a file through it. Its max bandwidth was well under my Internet connection speed. It was replaced with a net5501. It's not below mine. I can saturate it, but my inbound is still well below what the hardware can handle. I'll upgrade eventually.
