Re: hibernate function

2011-02-19 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:53:42 +0100
Benny Lofgren wrote:

> > I don't really see how hibernate could be done safely without all
> > systems having a TPM. Maybe a storage file in /var that only root can
> > access, but that's still a compromise.  
> 
> I'm sure it's just my too-narrow mind, but I fail to see any particular
> security implications that are not also implied by having actual
> physical access to the machine. Could you elaborate?

If you switch the main power off before leaving your machine then that
isn't true. Also I'm fairly sure it's easier to get access to data on a
disk, especially if deleted than all data in memory.



Re: hibernate function

2011-02-18 Thread Joe Snikeris
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Orestes Leal R.
 wrote:
> does it exists?

It'll work if it's implemented in hardware like on a Thinkpad X40.



Re: hibernate function

2011-02-18 Thread Benny Lofgren
On 2011-02-18 18.17, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:17:25 +0100
> Joachim Schipper wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:51:27AM -0600, Orestes Leal R. wrote:
>>> does it exists?
>> Not yet.

> Hibernate offers more integrity of user data but it's a lot less
> secure, discounting the boot virus's like the one mentioned on P.
> Hansteen's site that may? be hindered by power removal. (Anyone heard
> more about those or how that one worked.)
> "http://bsdly.blogspot.com/2010/10/if-it-runs-openbsd-it-has-to-be.html";
> I don't really see how hibernate could be done safely without all
> systems having a TPM. Maybe a storage file in /var that only root can
> access, but that's still a compromise.

I'm sure it's just my too-narrow mind, but I fail to see any particular
security implications that are not also implied by having actual
physical access to the machine. Could you elaborate?

The one problem I see is the risk of being able to read system memory
from the hibernation storage if someone unauthorized gains access to the
system and boots it into single-user mode or removes the disk and reads
it in another computer.

But the way I imagine hibernation to be implemented would be to simply
swap out all memory to the (by default) encrypted swap space, and then
somehow flag the upcoming next boot that the swap contains live
hibernation data, and provide the encryption key (which of course
becomes the weak point).

Then for the really paranoid, the location of that flag and key could
perhaps be configurable, and be set to a USB stick or memory card that
can be removed and for example travel separately from the laptop itself.
Not perfect of course, but then again, if access to the physical
hardware is gained all bets are more or less off anyway.


Regards,

/Benny


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Re: hibernate function

2011-02-18 Thread Marco Peereboom
there are some patches floating around.

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:51:27AM -0600, Orestes Leal R. wrote:
> does it exists?



Re: hibernate function

2011-02-18 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:17:25 +0100
Joachim Schipper wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:51:27AM -0600, Orestes Leal R. wrote:
> > does it exists?
> 
> Not yet.
> 
>   Joachim

Hibernate offers more integrity of user data but it's a lot less
secure, discounting the boot virus's like the one mentioned on P.
Hansteen's site that may? be hindered by power removal. (Anyone heard
more about those or how that one worked.)

"http://bsdly.blogspot.com/2010/10/if-it-runs-openbsd-it-has-to-be.html";


I don't really see how hibernate could be done safely without all
systems having a TPM. Maybe a storage file in /var that only root can
access, but that's still a compromise.



Re: hibernate function

2011-02-18 Thread Joachim Schipper
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:51:27AM -0600, Orestes Leal R. wrote:
> does it exists?

Not yet.

Joachim

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