Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
Hi , i enabled the driver in the RAMDISK_CD and GENERIC, then made a release, but it still doesn't recognize this hardware as configured. Just for checking, i booted with this release cd and in the UKC prompt y tried a 'find aac' and it shows as enabled. Maybe this particular controller is not supported at all in the aac driver? Regards, Marcos Laufer Jonathan Gray wrote: On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 06:26:23PM -0200, Marcos Laufer wrote: Hello, this is an IBM x3650, i booted with a 4.3 cd and this is the dmesg (SAS hard disks are not recognized) Adaptec ASR-2120S rev 0x02 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 not configured The driver for Adaptec RAID (aac) is disabled by default. See http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20050318231311 for the backstory. Adaptec won't provide documentation required to maintain the driver.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
On Monday 13 October 2008, Artur Grabowski wrote: gm_sjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. Works better than anything else. //art Yep. If you need an example, search the archives for HiFn and the following story will unfold... HiFn makes crypto accelerators. Some folks working on OpenBSD wanted to support these chips, but the could not get documentation from the company. The company said they'd release documentation a few times to a few different people, but nothing happened. Theo called them liars (or similarly direct names) and there were a few big threads about about the missing HiFn docs here on misc, twice they were slashdotted. Since HiFn is basically in my back yard, I walked into their office one day, talked to a few people, and set up a meeting with their CEO and CTO. Both of them were good guys, and willing to help. The said they would get the problem of the missing docs cleared up. I stayed in contact with them for a few months but nothing happened, and the docs were *STILL* missing... Eight months (or more) later, my phone rings, and on the other end of the line was the VP of Sales and Marketing from HiFn. You see, it was the Sales and Marketing department of HiFn that had forbid the release of needed documentation. Since sales and marketing are the bread and butter of every company, they obviously have a ton of power to make sure things done their way. The reason why they internally stopped all efforts to release documentation is because they used the gathered registration info for sales leads and marketing input. So why the heck did the VP call me? --The answer is *VERY* *SIMPLE* Theo and plenty of others around here created yet another long and brutally direct thread about the missing HiFn documentation. The thread once again made it onto slashdot and elsewhere, and someone informed the HiFn Sales/Marketing folks about the on-going Public Relations disaster for the company created by all the good from OpenBSD land. The VP asked me to inform the OpenBSD camp that a FTP server with all needed docs would be opened in a matter of hours, and this time they actually kept their promise and release their docs. Me being nice, taking the time to physically meet with the top guys at HiFn and very politely discuss the missing documentation changed absolutely nothing. The thing that *REALLY* caused the release of the docs was Theo and others around here being brutally direct, extremely honest, and not pulling any punches. The less than funny part is, Theo told me at the start that I would be wasting my time trying to meet and talk with them. Being overly optimistic, I gave it a try anyhow, only to prove Theo was right all along. Theo: 1 JCR: 0 Being nice just means it's easier for them to ignore you. If you want docs, be loud, be honest, be direct, be persistent, become a huge Public Relations nightmare, and never pull any punches. -- JCR
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
gm_sjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. Works better than anything else. //art
vendor list (was: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3 )
to create a web section listing the reasonable and bastard vendors? I think it would be useful in two points: * helps to OpenBSD community to choose the right hardware * make good or bad publicity depending on real vendor's position Anyway it's only an idea. +1 I very like the idea.
Re: vendor list (was: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3 )
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:28:37AM -0700, Charles Smith wrote: to create a web section listing the reasonable and bastard vendors? I think it would be useful in two points: * helps to OpenBSD community to choose the right hardware * make good or bad publicity depending on real vendor's position Anyway it's only an idea. +1 I very like the idea. Check the archives, it has been tried in the past. http://vendorwatch.org/ According to the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, they have been reviving it since somewhere between February and June 2007. Apparently too many people are like me and think that it is a good idea, but don't have to time to maintain it. (definitely read the archives before even imagining that you would consider suggesting that it be maintained by developers) l8rZ, -- andrew - ICQ# 253198 - Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BOFH excuse of the day: Sysadmin accidentally destroyed pager with a large hammer.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
Jonathan, thanks, i see. I Tried enabling de aac driver in the GENERIC and RAMDISK_CD , and made a release. It's still not showing it as enabled when booting with this new cd. Could it be possible that the driver is another one? I am writing an email to Adaptec right now asking for the documentation you need. Regards, Marcos Laufer Jonathan Gray wrote: On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 06:26:23PM -0200, Marcos Laufer wrote: Hello, this is an IBM x3650, i booted with a 4.3 cd and this is the dmesg (SAS hard disks are not recognized) Adaptec ASR-2120S rev 0x02 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 not configured The driver for Adaptec RAID (aac) is disabled by default. See http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20050318231311 for the backstory. Adaptec won't provide documentation required to maintain the driver.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
I am writing an email to Adaptec right now asking for the documentation you need. Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
I'm pretty sure that my email won't change a thing about Adaptec's way of thinking. But it is the right thing to do, i must send them that email with my point of view and needs as a user of Adaptec's products. I will also let IBM know about this. Theo de Raadt wrote: I am writing an email to Adaptec right now asking for the documentation you need. Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. 3ware and Adaptec are bastards because they lied to us and our user community time after time. It will take a lot for them to make it up to our user base. Help our cause? They attempted to destroy our cause, and they will get called what they really are. They, and their defenders.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 1:53 PM, gm_sjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. It can't help less than saying please did.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. And what would you call them? Hopefully they ARE reading this so they can get a picture of just how close minded they are being in regards to enabling their products to work on whatever OS people want.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. I'm sure your mail on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause, too.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
On 2008-10-10, Marcos Laufer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm pretty sure that my email won't change a thing about Adaptec's way of thinking. But it is the right thing to do, i must send them that email with my point of view and needs as a user of Adaptec's products. I will also let IBM know about this. Most other big server vendors either stopped using, or never used, Adaptec's RAID controllers (e.g. Dell, HP, Fujitsu-Siemens, Sun ...)
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
gm_sjo wrote: 2008/10/10 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wow. Good luck. Can't you see we've been down that road before with those bastards? But really. Good luck. You really are too optimistic, but sure, learn the reality for yourself. I'm sure calling vendors 'bastards' on a public mailing list is really going to help the cause. When you have proven yourself even 10% as helpful to the cause of OpenBSD as Theo is, then maybe, just maybe, you are justified in criticizing his tactics. I look forward to that point in time, but until then I really have no reason to side with you, nor should anyone else who is informed on this matter. Theo has proven very well that the most effective method of dealing with these 'bastard' vendors (that ignore or undermine OpenBSD) is to use negative reinforcement. Corporations only understand and react appropriately to bad publicity that threatens their profits. Anything else merely encourages them to continue to ignore OpenBSD, because they perceive that it costs less to ignore OpenBSD than it does to help. Breeno
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
2008/10/10 Breen Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When you have proven yourself even 10% as helpful to the cause of OpenBSD as Theo is, then maybe, just maybe, you are justified in criticizing his tactics. I look forward to that point in time, but until then I really have no reason to side with you, nor should anyone else who is informed on this matter. Dear lord, it's brainwashed minions such as yourself that make me wonder why I continously donate money to the 'cause'. But of course, that's irrelevant, right?
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
Theo: In this useful paper http://cvs.openbsd.org/papers/brhard2007/ you explain very good the situation. Great. Maybe is totally off-topic, but ?would it helps in some way to create a web section listing the reasonable and bastard vendors? I think it would be useful in two points: * helps to OpenBSD community to choose the right hardware * make good or bad publicity depending on real vendor's position Anyway it's only an idea. -- Thanks, Jordi Espasa Clofent
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
Are we really arguing whether or not its ever appropriate to call someone a bastard on public mailing list? Who cares? Suigesting that Theo becom less inflamatory didn't go so well for NetBSD, neither did pandering to hardware vendors so that their OS could run anywhere. Doesn't it seem reasonable that someone take a hard line with these folks, and isn't it established that this is the place. Theo has accomplished some important things, and did so using his tactics, aren't the nice folks who'll sign any NDA no matter how braindead, and who will jump through whatever other ridiculous hoops a hardware vendor creates following that thread to its logical conclusion. Around here its going to be' safe simple and secure, and hardware vendors whom fail to live up to their promises, whom bait and switch documentation, whom engage free operating system developers only on some misguided MBA's terms are going to be called (shudder) bastards. Even if we were convinced that the carrot was 9x as effective as the stick, we still need the stick for the other 10%. On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 3:55 PM, gm_sjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/10 Breen Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When you have proven yourself even 10% as helpful to the cause of OpenBSD as Theo is, then maybe, just maybe, you are justified in criticizing his tactics. I look forward to that point in time, but until then I really have no reason to side with you, nor should anyone else who is informed on this matter. Dear lord, it's brainwashed minions such as yourself that make me wonder why I continously donate money to the 'cause'. But of course, that's irrelevant, right? -- Some software money can't buy. For everything else there's Micros~1.
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
gm_sjo ha scritto: 2008/10/10 Breen Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When you have proven yourself even 10% as helpful to the cause of OpenBSD as Theo is, then maybe, just maybe, you are justified in criticizing his tactics. I look forward to that point in time, but until then I really have no reason to side with you, nor should anyone else who is informed on this matter. Dear lord, it's brainwashed minions such as yourself that make me wonder why I continously donate money to the 'cause'. But of course, that's irrelevant, right? No, it's not. If you think to pay to have developers with mouth shout you're really wrong. The 'cause' is to make Openbsd to be Openbsd, if Theo express an opinion about vendors they dont do nothing wrong just because he express the reality of situation. You have an unix-like o.s. secure by default (i dont pay royalties for that :) ) with some hardware supported just because some drunk vendors give documentations to openbsd developers or maybe because some addicted developer (developers) make a reverse engeenering of that driver. That the cause. You pay to have a good and stable operating system, and make openbsd to work good enough just with documentation and drivers blob free. You think Openbsd staff spend your money to buy documentations and to keep his mouth shut with others ? Francesco P.S.: Sorry for my bad english :) P.S.2: Theo and developers, stop to use his money to buy trojan condoms :)
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
gm_sjo wrote: 2008/10/10 Breen Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When you have proven yourself even 10% as helpful to the cause of OpenBSD as Theo is, then maybe, just maybe, you are justified in criticizing his tactics. I look forward to that point in time, but until then I really have no reason to side with you, nor should anyone else who is informed on this matter. Dear lord, it's brainwashed minions such as yourself that make me wonder why I continously donate money to the 'cause'. But of course, that's irrelevant, right? Your personal attack does not improve your standing in this matter. You are trying to deflect the issue: that you don't agree with Theo's tactics. Yet, you have failed to provide a single good reason for why people should believe you. Theo's trash talking about trashy vendors has a history of effectiveness, while the wishy washy avoidance that you advocate has never proven effective. Show us one vendor that has released documentation because OpenBSD developers and users sat back and waited quietly for it. And again, what exactly was it that have you done for OpenBSD that makes your opinion worth listening to, let alone superior to Theo's? Breeno
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
gm_sjo wrote: 2008/10/10 Breen Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When you have proven yourself even 10% as helpful to the cause of OpenBSD as Theo is, then maybe, just maybe, you are justified in criticizing his tactics. I look forward to that point in time, but until then I really have no reason to side with you, nor should anyone else who is informed on this matter. Dear lord, it's brainwashed minions such as yourself that make me wonder why I continously donate money to the 'cause'. But of course, that's irrelevant, right? breen and many others are not brainwashed, they are fed up with whining naysayers who want to dictate manners via the internet. fucking do something useful instead of complaining about how someone else does it and maybe you'll *earn* some respect.
dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
Hello, this is an IBM x3650, i booted with a 4.3 cd and this is the dmesg (SAS hard disks are not recognized) OpenBSD 4.3 (RAMDISK_CD) #645: Wed Mar 12 11:31:03 MDT 2008 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/RAMDISK_CD cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MV CPU 3.20GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 3.20 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,CNXT-ID,CX16,xTPR real mem = 1073074176 (1023MB) avail mem = 1031426048 (983MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 10/27/06, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd831, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0x3ffcea40 (116 entries) bios0: vendor IBM version -[GGE123AUS-1.03]- date 10/27/2006 bios0: IBM IBM System x3650 -[7979H5U]- acpi0 at bios0: rev 2, can't enable ACPI bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xb000 0xcb000/0x1800 0xcc800/0x1800 0xce000/0x5000! cpu0 at mainbus0 pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios) pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel 5000P Host rev 0x92 ppb0 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel 5000 PCIE rev 0x92 pci1 at ppb0 bus 26 ppb1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel 6321ESB PCIE rev 0x01 pci2 at ppb1 bus 27 ppb2 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 Intel 6321ESB PCIE rev 0x01 pci3 at ppb2 bus 28 ppb3 at pci2 dev 1 function 0 Intel 6321ESB PCIE rev 0x01 pci4 at ppb3 bus 36 ppb4 at pci1 dev 0 function 3 Intel 6321ESB PCIE-PCIX rev 0x01 pci5 at ppb4 bus 37 ppb5 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 Intel 5000 PCIE rev 0x92 pci6 at ppb5 bus 4 Adaptec ASR-2120S rev 0x02 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 not configured ppb6 at pci0 dev 4 function 0 Intel 5000 PCIE x8 rev 0x92 pci7 at ppb6 bus 16 ppb7 at pci0 dev 5 function 0 Intel 5000 PCIE rev 0x92 pci8 at ppb7 bus 69 ppb8 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 Intel 5000 PCIE x8 rev 0x92 pci9 at ppb8 bus 7 ppb9 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 Intel 5000 PCIE rev 0x92 pci10 at ppb9 bus 68 Intel 5000 DMA rev 0x92 at pci0 dev 8 function 0 not configured pchb1 at pci0 dev 16 function 0 Intel 5000 Error Reporting rev 0x92 pchb2 at pci0 dev 16 function 1 Intel 5000 Error Reporting rev 0x92 pchb3 at pci0 dev 16 function 2 Intel 5000 Error Reporting rev 0x92 pchb4 at pci0 dev 17 function 0 Intel 5000 Reserved rev 0x92 pchb5 at pci0 dev 19 function 0 Intel 5000 Reserved rev 0x92 pchb6 at pci0 dev 21 function 0 Intel 5000 FBD rev 0x92 pchb7 at pci0 dev 22 function 0 Intel 5000 FBD rev 0x92 ppb10 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 6321ESB PCIE rev 0x09 pci11 at ppb10 bus 2 ppb11 at pci11 dev 0 function 0 ServerWorks PCIE-PCIX rev 0xc2 pci12 at ppb11 bus 3 bnx0 at pci12 dev 0 function 0 Broadcom BCM5708 rev 0x11: irq 3 ppb12 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 6321ESB PCIE rev 0x09 pci13 at ppb12 bus 5 ppb13 at pci13 dev 0 function 0 ServerWorks PCIE-PCIX rev 0xc2 pci14 at ppb13 bus 6 bnx1 at pci14 dev 0 function 0 Broadcom BCM5708 rev 0x11: irq 10 uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 6321ESB USB rev 0x09: irq 5 uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 Intel 6321ESB USB rev 0x09: irq 11 uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 Intel 6321ESB USB rev 0x09: irq 5 uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 Intel 6321ESB USB rev 0x09: irq 11 ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 6321ESB USB rev 0x09: irq 5 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ppb14 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 Intel 82801BA Hub-to-PCI rev 0xd9 pci15 at ppb14 bus 1 vga1 at pci15 dev 6 function 0 ATI ES1000 rev 0x02 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) ichpcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel 6321ESB LPC rev 0x09: PM disabled pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 Intel 6321ESB SATA rev 0x09: DMA, channel 0 wired to compatibility, channel 1 wired to compatibility atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 1 drive 0 scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: HL-DT-ST, RW/DVD GCC-4244N, 1.02 SCSI0 5/cdrom removable cd0(pciide0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2 Intel 6321ESB SMBus rev 0x09 at pci0 dev 31 function 3 not configured usb1 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub1 at usb1 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb2 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb3 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb4 at uhci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub4 at usb4 Intel UHCI root hub rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 isa0 at ichpcib0 isadma0 at isa0 pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0 npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: reported by CPUID; using exception 16 pccom0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo biomask fbe5 netmask ffed ttymask ffef rd0: fixed, 3800 blocks umass0 at uhub0 port 7 configuration 1 interface 0 Kingston DataTraveler U3 rev 2.00/2.00 addr 2 umass0: using SCSI over Bulk-Only scsibus1 at umass0: 2 targets sd0 at scsibus1 targ 1 lun 0: Kingston, DataTraveler U3, 6.16 SCSI0 0/direct removable sd0: 994MB, 126 cyl, 255 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sec, 2037759 sec total cd1 at scsibus1 targ 1 lun 1:
Re: dmesg IBM x3650 OpenBSD 4.3
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 06:26:23PM -0200, Marcos Laufer wrote: Hello, this is an IBM x3650, i booted with a 4.3 cd and this is the dmesg (SAS hard disks are not recognized) Adaptec ASR-2120S rev 0x02 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 not configured The driver for Adaptec RAID (aac) is disabled by default. See http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20050318231311 for the backstory. Adaptec won't provide documentation required to maintain the driver.
