Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Gerd Petermann]

Hi Dave,

I agree that these options are difficult to understand.
The options -- polygon-size-limits and -- min-size-polygon
use the size of the bounding box of an object. 
The size is measured in Garmin units.

With the style rules you specify the resolutions at which an object should 
be drawn. For each resolution besides 24 several filters are used to 
do the rounding of coordinates and smothing of lines for the lower resolution
for each object.

One of the filters is the SizeFilter which is configured with the above options.
If the larger value of width and height is smaller than the given value in NUM 
scaled by the resolution,
the element is dropped before more complex filters are used.
So, if you change the value to e.g. 50 you may not find as many small parks or
forest polygons at resolution 22 as with the default.
The --polygon-size-limits option works similar, but allows to specify different 
NUM values
for the different levels.

Gerd


From: daveswarth...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 19:11:36 +0700
Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted
To: gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com

Well, it's probably mostly because I'm  not at all familiar with the operations 
required to produce these maps. AFAIK, the options file is the only place some 
of these parameters are described. For example, 
--min-size-polygon=NUMRemoves all polygons smaller than NUM from the map. 
This reduces map size andspeeds up redrawing of maps. Recommended value is 
8 to 15, default is 8. Seealso polygon-size-limits.
What does this mean? "removes all polygons smaller than NUM". Is NUM a length, 
the number of sides, or what? What effect does it have on the outputted map 
with a setting of 8 as opposed to 15? 
I was really hoping there was a manual of some sort that described the 
processing, the options, etc., with some nice examples and explanatory text. If 
there is not, I'll just have to learn a little bit every day until I'm up to 
speed 
If I ever reach a point where I'm knowledgeable enough to help with the 
documentation, I would certainly be willing to do that.
Thanks,
Dave
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Gerd Petermann 
 wrote:



Hi Dave,

not sure how to help you. You say that you have a lot of open questions.
after reading the docu. Please post them if they are still open
or help to improve the documentation.

Gerd



From: daveswarth...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 13:04:45 +0700
To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

I'm still reading this thread but haven't tried the new mkgmap.jar yet. I was 
hoping for a way to smooth polygons and Gerd's reply to Enrico indicates that 
the patch and new binary only help smoothing lines, so I stopped paying 
attention. But I'm interested in learning more about mkgmap and the map making 
process in general. 

I saw another post a while back where Gerd says something along the lines of 
"people still don't know how to use a patch".
The documentation for mkgmap itself is pretty thin. There's the style manual, 
and the little blurb about TYP files but nothing to tie it all together. And 
I've not found anything about how to use mkgmap other then the options text 
file. The explanatory statements in there are helpful but leave a lot unsaid. A 
careful reading of the "Optimization Options", for example, left me with more 
questions than answers.
You are the developers of the program, so many of these things must seem 
glaringly obvious. But they are not. How is one supposed to know how to utilize 
a patch? Is there a users manual somewhere? 
Thanks,
Dave
On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Gerd Petermann 
 wrote:



Hi Enrico,

I fear I can't change mkgmap to fix this problem.
The problem is more or less bad luck.
In some cases, you have placed the points of the ways
more or less exactly between the points of the Garmin
grid, others are very near to the grid points.
If I got it right, we can only produce a straight line
in the garmin format when we allow to move certain 
points by more than
2 metres, and in that case the WrongAngleFixer  
will prefer the correct position to the bad angle.

I''ve attached the grid as a gpx file, if you load that
into JOSM you probably see what I mean.

If you prefer "nicer" rendering on the Garmin map
you may move some points closer to the grid to solve
the problem. 

Gerd

> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:40:37 -0700
> From: e.rossin...@alice.it
> To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW:  Lines distorted
> 
> yes you'are right, I'm interested to straight out the line "Via Ronchi Di San
> Francesco Di Paola".
> would be great if you'll find something to do this.
> THANKS.
> --enrico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Distort

Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Carlos Dávila]

El 01/02/15 a las 07:04, Dave Swarthout escribió:
How is one supposed to know how to utilize a patch? Is there a users 
manual somewhere? 
Dealing with patches has nothing to do with mkgmap but with develop in 
general. In a Linux system typing "man patch" in a console is the way to 
get the manual.

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Dave Swarthout]

I'm still reading this thread but haven't tried the new mkgmap.jar yet. I
was hoping for a way to smooth polygons and Gerd's reply to Enrico
indicates that the patch and new binary only help smoothing lines, so I
stopped paying attention. But I'm interested in learning more about mkgmap
and the map making process in general.

I saw another post a while back where Gerd says something along the lines
of "people still don't know how to use a patch".

The documentation for mkgmap itself is pretty thin. There's the style
manual, and the little blurb about TYP files but nothing to tie it all
together. And I've not found anything about how to use mkgmap other then
the options text file. The explanatory statements in there are helpful but
leave a lot unsaid. A careful reading of the "Optimization Options", for
example, left me with more questions than answers.

You are the developers of the program, so many of these things must seem
glaringly obvious. But they are not. How is one supposed to know how to
utilize a patch? Is there a users manual somewhere?

Thanks,

Dave

On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Gerd Petermann <
gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Enrico,
>
> I fear I can't change mkgmap to fix this problem.
> The problem is more or less bad luck.
> In some cases, you have placed the points of the ways
> more or less exactly between the points of the Garmin
> grid, others are very near to the grid points.
> If I got it right, we can only produce a straight line
> in the garmin format when we allow to move certain
> points by more than
> 2 metres, and in that case the WrongAngleFixer
> will prefer the correct position to the bad angle.
>
> I''ve attached the grid as a gpx file, if you load that
> into JOSM you probably see what I mean.
>
> If you prefer "nicer" rendering on the Garmin map
> you may move some points closer to the grid to solve
> the problem.
>
> Gerd
>
> > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:40:37 -0700
> > From: e.rossin...@alice.it
> > To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted
> >
> > yes you'are right, I'm interested to straight out the line "Via Ronchi
> Di San
> > Francesco Di Paola".
> > would be great if you'll find something to do this.
> > THANKS.
> > --enrico
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Distorted-lines-tp5831842p5831971.html
> > Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > ___
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>
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>



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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

yes you'are right, I'm interested to straight out the line "Via Ronchi Di San
Francesco Di Paola".
would be great if you'll find something to do this.
THANKS.
--enrico




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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[GerdP]

Hi Enrico,

okay, don't know what's wrong, the binary works for me.
In the mean time I was able to find out what data your screen shot shows.
If I got it right, you are interested in "Via Ronchi Di San Francesco Di
Paola"
which consists of many very small parts with alternating types.
Maybe this is a special case, the options don't help to straight
out these lines. 
'll have a look at this during the next days.

Gerd


demon.box wrote
> ah ok, I understand but I'm sure that I'm using your mkgmap.jar (I
> rename the normal version)





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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

ah ok, I understand but I'm sure that I'm using your mkgmap.jar (I rename
the normal version)



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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[GerdP]

Hi Enrico,

please double check. Every mkgmap version will accept these options because
they start with
"x-" 

Gerd


demon.box wrote
> yes I use your patched binary because it accept the new options but I see
> the same img file size... and the same rendered result.
 




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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

yes I use your patched binary because it accept the new options but I see the
same img file size... and the same rendered result.

 




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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[GerdP]

Hi Enrico,

I just tried the binary. I see different img file size with parameter
--x-waf-max-error-percentage=200,
so I think it works as expected. Are you sure that you use the patched
binary?

Gerd


demon.box wrote
> ok I found the problem with my style... sorry again.
> then I make some test but unfortunately I can't find any difference with
> many values of the new options...
> thanks
> --enrico





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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

ok I found the problem with my style... sorry again.
then I make some test but unfortunately I can't find any difference with
many values of the new options...
thanks
--enrico




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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[GerdP]

Hi Enrico,

I have no idea. The patch is not likely to cause that, so probably your 
test environment is the problem. You can try any combination of the three
options, but not all of them will produce good results.

Gerd


demon.box wrote
> sorry, thanks very much for your patience, now I understand, it's just
> because the new 3 options are usable alternatively, right?
> 
> I make some test but the new mkgmap ignore my style for lines, why?
 




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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

sorry, thanks very much for your patience, now I understand, it's just
because the new 3 options are usable alternatively, right?

I make some test but the new mkgmap ignore my style for lines, why?

 





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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[GerdP]

Hi Enrico,

please read the complete post, it contains a link to the binary as well.

Gerd


demon.box wrote
> sorry, how can I apply your patch?
> I found the command:
> 
> patch < patch-name
> 
> but I don't understand very much how I have to apply it...
> thanks very much.
> --enrico





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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

sorry, how can I apply your patch?
thanks very much.
--enrico




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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Gerd Petermann]

Hi Enrico,

I forgot to mention that the options are not used for shapes, only for lines.

Gerd


From: gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com
To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:47:07 +0100
Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW:  Lines distorted







Hi Enrico,

attached is a quick patch that implements three new experimental options:
--x-waf-max-bearing-error=15
--x-waf-max-angle=3
--x-waf-max-error-percentage=100

Meaning:
--x-waf-max-bearing-error=15
The algo calculates the delta of the displayed baring and the real
bearing in OSM. If the delta is larger than this, it tries to correct something.
Try values between 10 and 20.

--x-waf-max-angle=3
This is used to detect obsolete points.
If the 3 consecutive points (P1,P2,P3) in a line form an angle < 
x-waf-max-angle,
it is a candidate for removal. The point P2 is removed
if the distance to the straight line between P1 and P3 is small enough.
A higher value means that more points may be removed.
Reasonable values are probably between 1 and 5.

--x-waf-max-error-percentage=100
This value is used in the method that decides if the distance to the straight
line is small enough. A higher value means more points are removed.
Reasonable values are probably between 50 and 200.

The binary based on r3430 is here:
http://files.mkgmap.org.uk/download/243/mkgmap.jar


If you find better values than the defaults, please let us know. The defaults
are a compromize of calculation time and quality.

Gerd



> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 01:57:31 -0700
> From: e.rossin...@alice.it
> To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW:  Lines distorted
> 
> ehm, I don't know how to modify the java source and compile my own library...
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Distorted-lines-tp5831842p5831910.html
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Gerd Petermann]

Hi Enrico,

attached is a quick patch that implements three new experimental options:
--x-waf-max-bearing-error=15
--x-waf-max-angle=3
--x-waf-max-error-percentage=100

Meaning:
--x-waf-max-bearing-error=15
The algo calculates the delta of the displayed baring and the real
bearing in OSM. If the delta is larger than this, it tries to correct something.
Try values between 10 and 20.

--x-waf-max-angle=3
This is used to detect obsolete points.
If the 3 consecutive points (P1,P2,P3) in a line form an angle < 
x-waf-max-angle,
it is a candidate for removal. The point P2 is removed
if the distance to the straight line between P1 and P3 is small enough.
A higher value means that more points may be removed.
Reasonable values are probably between 1 and 5.

--x-waf-max-error-percentage=100
This value is used in the method that decides if the distance to the straight
line is small enough. A higher value means more points are removed.
Reasonable values are probably between 50 and 200.

The binary based on r3430 is here:
http://files.mkgmap.org.uk/download/243/mkgmap.jar


If you find better values than the defaults, please let us know. The defaults
are a compromize of calculation time and quality.

Gerd



> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 01:57:31 -0700
> From: e.rossin...@alice.it
> To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW:  Lines distorted
> 
> ehm, I don't know how to modify the java source and compile my own library...
> 
> 
> 
> --
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options-for-WrongAngleFixer-v1.patch
Description: Binary data
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

ehm, I don't know how to modify the java source and compile my own library...



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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Gerd Petermann]

Hi Enrico,

you have to modify the java sources and compile your own binary.
If you can't do that I can post a quick patch to implement
some options for that.

Gerd

> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 01:49:36 -0700
> From: e.rossin...@alice.it
> To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW:  Lines distorted
> 
> Hi GerdP, excuse me, how I can concretely apply the
> MAX_DIFF_ANGLE_STRAIGHT_LINE = 3 parameteres?
> Thanks.
> --enrico
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[demon.box]

Hi GerdP, excuse me, how I can concretely apply the
MAX_DIFF_ANGLE_STRAIGHT_LINE = 3 parameteres?
Thanks.
--enrico




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[mkgmap-dev] FW: Lines distorted

[Gerd Petermann]

From: gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com
To: daveswarth...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [mkgmap-dev] Lines distorted
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:02:45 +0100




Hi Dave,

up to now the reduce-point-xxx options are used for the DouglasPeuckerFilter
which smoothes lines at lower resolutions. They are ignored for resolution 24,
in which the WrongAngleFixer is used to guess how an object can be placed on
the Garmin raster so that it looks as much as possible like the OSM described by
the OSM data. If you want to play with that:
The WrongAngleFixer has a few constants,
e.g. you may increase the value 
MAX_DIFF_ANGLE_STRAIGHT_LINE = 3;
or change the method calcMaxErrorDistance()
to allow larger errors.

Gerd



From: daveswarth...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 07:14:07 +0700
To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] Lines distorted

I want to continue Enrico's questioning a bit. I have a similar issue with the 
way polygons display on my Garmin device. What appears as a smooth curve on the 
OSM slippy map are very blocky on the device. I have played with the 
reduce-point-density=4 and reduce-point-density-polygon=8 parameters in an 
attempt to smooth those curves but they seem to have no effect. I can live with 
the distortion but I wonder, what do these two parameters actually control?
Cheers,Dave
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Andrzej Popowski  wrote:
Hi Enrico,



Garmin maps have limited resolution, about 2.4m. One can't draw precisely a 
line, which length is near to this resolution.



You can try to assign the same Garmin object type to all these segments, then 
probably mkgmap will be able to merge them and smooth.



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