Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
Wolfgang v. Hansen escribió: On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Carlos Dávila wrote: Marco Certelli escribió: I think I can confirm what said here. My nuvi 255 seems to learn the speed I drive on each road (with impact on routing decision next time I drive the same area). I think nuvi 300 doesn't have this behaviour. I have driven many times my road to work and it continues calculating about twice the time it really takes me from home to work (about 50 km trip). Using city navigator for the same route, time calculation is correct. That is really strange. What's your firmware version? What I have in SystemAbout is: nüvi 300 Software Version 5.30 GPS SW Version: 2.90 ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
I Think I have garmin nuvi 255, SW version 5.00 --- Ven 5/6/09, Carlos Dávila cdavi...@jemila.jazztel.es ha scritto: Da: Carlos Dávila cdavi...@jemila.jazztel.es Oggetto: Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values A: Development list for mkgmap mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Data: Venerdì 5 giugno 2009, 16:23 Wolfgang v. Hansen escribió: On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Carlos Dávila wrote: Marco Certelli escribió: I think I can confirm what said here. My nuvi 255 seems to learn the speed I drive on each road (with impact on routing decision next time I drive the same area). I think nuvi 300 doesn't have this behaviour. I have driven many times my road to work and it continues calculating about twice the time it really takes me from home to work (about 50 km trip). Using city navigator for the same route, time calculation is correct. That is really strange. What's your firmware version? What I have in SystemAbout is: nüvi 300 Software Version 5.30 GPS SW Version: 2.90 ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
I think I can confirm what said here. My nuvi 255 seems to learn the speed I drive on each road (with impact on routing decision next time I drive the same area). Also I confirm that many roads has a max speed info that is shown on the screen while I drive the road. --- Gio 4/6/09, Wolfgang v. Hansen wvhan...@fom.fgan.de ha scritto: Da: Wolfgang v. Hansen wvhan...@fom.fgan.de Oggetto: Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values A: Development list for mkgmap mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Data: Giovedì 4 giugno 2009, 16:24 On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, Thilo Hannemann wrote: Somebody mentioned also that the GPS units will learn the speed you are actually driving and use that for their calculation. If this is speculation or based on facts I don't know. At least with my Oregon 300 I doubt it: As I use it all the time with my maps I'm cycling always in the car mode. So far the ETAs are still very wrong. If the GPS would learn the speed they should become more realistic over time. At least the car navs (StreetPilot, nüvi) do learn your speed profile -- don't know about the outdoor navs though. These are probably the same set of speeds that you can set in MapSource. In addition, there should also be a slot for the max. speed for each road in the maps. Newer devices (I don't have one of them though) along with current maps tell you when you are driving too fast. This is a feature that had been introduced by Garmin/Navteq quite recently. -Wolfgang ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Carlos Dávila wrote: Marco Certelli escribió: I think I can confirm what said here. My nuvi 255 seems to learn the speed I drive on each road (with impact on routing decision next time I drive the same area). I think nuvi 300 doesn't have this behaviour. I have driven many times my road to work and it continues calculating about twice the time it really takes me from home to work (about 50 km trip). Using city navigator for the same route, time calculation is correct. That is really strange. What's your firmware version? -Wolfgang ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
R: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
Hi, As far as I know the map only stores the road_speed and road_class (not the speed in km/h: association road_speed vs. speed is demanded to Garmin devices or mapsource). The turn time penalties I tested was depending on the road_speed (but I presume the penalty is proportional to the speed). Anyway it was not related to the road_class. Do you have other results about those turn time penalties? for bikers, just put only road_speed=0 or 1 to all roads (maybe road_speed 2 for downward roads...) Ciao, Marco. --- Mer 3/6/09, Felix Hartmann extremecar...@googlemail.com ha scritto: Da: Felix Hartmann extremecar...@googlemail.com Oggetto: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values A: Development list for mkgmap mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Data: Mercoledì 3 giugno 2009, 12:06 Is it possible to encode arbitrary maxspeed values or can we only set in steps of 10km/h? For example having road road_speed=7 associated with 35km/h, road road_speed=6 with 27, road_speed=5 with 23, road_speed=4 with 20, road_speed=3 with 17, road_speed=2 with 10 and road_speed=1 with 5km/h. The difference this should make would be enough to only set road_class=2, 1 and 0 and avoid the big time penalties for sharp turns that happen in road_class 4 and 3. This would be great for bicycle maps. In Mapsource one can change the speed oneself, I noticed that dividing default speeds by a factor of 3.5 produces pretty good estimation of arrival times for bicylces (when using the car/motorcycle setting, as bicycle produces rubbish routes) but on the GPS this is not possible. @Thilo, do you understand the code good enough to write a patch for this if possible.? I have problems understanding in which files the maxspeed is handled. Cheers, Felix ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
Hi Felix, Am 03.06.2009 um 12:06 schrieb Felix Hartmann: Is it possible to encode arbitrary maxspeed values or can we only set in steps of 10km/h? For example having road road_speed=7 associated with 35km/h, road road_speed=6 with 27, road_speed=5 with 23, road_speed=4 with 20, road_speed=3 with 17, road_speed=2 with 10 and road_speed=1 with 5km/ h. The difference this should make would be enough to only set road_class=2, 1 and 0 and avoid the big time penalties for sharp turns that happen in road_class 4 and 3. This would be great for bicycle maps. That would be great indeed. In Mapsource one can change the speed oneself, I noticed that dividing default speeds by a factor of 3.5 produces pretty good estimation of arrival times for bicylces (when using the car/ motorcycle setting, as bicycle produces rubbish routes) but on the GPS this is not possible. @Thilo, do you understand the code good enough to write a patch for this if possible.? I have problems understanding in which files the maxspeed is handled. I have not really looked into the Garmin encoding part of the code, but I could invest some time if it helps. From what I know there are only those few road_speeds available in the format. *But* maybe there is some part in the header where one can set what actual speed each road_speed corresponds to (this is pure speculation). Somebody mentioned also that the GPS units will learn the speed you are actually driving and use that for their calculation. If this is speculation or based on facts I don't know. At least with my Oregon 300 I doubt it: As I use it all the time with my maps I'm cycling always in the car mode. So far the ETAs are still very wrong. If the GPS would learn the speed they should become more realistic over time. Perhaps we can build a Wiki page somewhere where we can collect all hard evidence about the routing? How about setting up an artificial map that we can use to test the routing, ETAs and so on? Especially keeping in mind that there might be a difference between different GPS units, firmware revision and so on. If there are routing parameters that the GPS units learn about their users that would really f*ck up our tests. @Marco Certelli: You've already started some tests. If you could write down what you did on some Wiki page so that others can repeat your tests that would be really helpful. Regards Thilo ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Re: [mkgmap-dev] max-speed and arbitrary values
I tested a lot with maps today. Setting maximum of *speed_class=2* works quite nice. However Routing over longer distances gets broken, not too bad but significantly. The lower you set the speeds, the straigther the route. Lowering speed_class thereby achieves similar routing like you can achieve by using shorter distance on a map that you build using all speed classes. I currently think that a good compromise would be going up to 3 or 4. Even when going for speed=2 as maximum, car/motorcycle produces slightly better results. Bicycle may be useful however to go a bit shorter distance (i.e. going down on a bike set GPS to bicycle, going up to motorcycle/car). Results are pretty similar however then to motorcar and shorter distance. Optimally we would need at least one more key like avoid toll however, which would be great for further refining your maps. Cgpsmapper now supports setting unpaved roads and carppol lanes - if we could set them too it would be great. On cyclemaps this would enable you to route all over Germany, if you avoid all non bicycle routes by enabling that key (as long as the route is not broken, sadly many are missing pieces in their relation). I did some tests and was able to route the Donauradwanderweg through it's complete Austrian territory by adding to all non route=bicycle the toll key. That would be nice, so if you simply wan't your GPS to follow the cycleroute, you enable the key and don't have to worry about the GPS deciding on other ways. As for* road_class*... I don't actually know wheter how 3 and 2 work differently. 0,1, and 4 have significant impact. Oh and not to forget. If someone could figure out how to set the *extended types* (also wrongly called 3byte tpyes), it would be great. Lines can currently be used up to 0x3f, 0x40 will show in Mapsource as 0x00, I think some GPS can differentiate upto 0x8f however. Extended types are NOT related to NT map format. There are many non NT maps with extended types. I'm now running out of all points, polygons and lines (many points are not usable, i.e. all marine points don't show up on my Vista HCx, others are not really stylable via typfile. Thilo Hannemann wrote: Hi Felix, Am 03.06.2009 um 12:06 schrieb Felix Hartmann: Is it possible to encode arbitrary maxspeed values or can we only set in steps of 10km/h? For example having road road_speed=7 associated with 35km/h, road road_speed=6 with 27, road_speed=5 with 23, road_speed=4 with 20, road_speed=3 with 17, road_speed=2 with 10 and road_speed=1 with 5km/h. The difference this should make would be enough to only set road_class=2, 1 and 0 and avoid the big time penalties for sharp turns that happen in road_class 4 and 3. This would be great for bicycle maps. That would be great indeed. In Mapsource one can change the speed oneself, I noticed that dividing default speeds by a factor of 3.5 produces pretty good estimation of arrival times for bicylces (when using the car/motorcycle setting, as bicycle produces rubbish routes) but on the GPS this is not possible. @Thilo, do you understand the code good enough to write a patch for this if possible.? I have problems understanding in which files the maxspeed is handled. I have not really looked into the Garmin encoding part of the code, but I could invest some time if it helps. From what I know there are only those few road_speeds available in the format. *But* maybe there is some part in the header where one can set what actual speed each road_speed corresponds to (this is pure speculation). Somebody mentioned also that the GPS units will learn the speed you are actually driving and use that for their calculation. If this is speculation or based on facts I don't know. At least with my Oregon 300 I doubt it: As I use it all the time with my maps I'm cycling always in the car mode. So far the ETAs are still very wrong. If the GPS would learn the speed they should become more realistic over time. Perhaps we can build a Wiki page somewhere where we can collect all hard evidence about the routing? How about setting up an artificial map that we can use to test the routing, ETAs and so on? Especially keeping in mind that there might be a difference between different GPS units, firmware revision and so on. If there are routing parameters that the GPS units learn about their users that would really f*ck up our tests. @Marco Certelli: You've already started some tests. If you could write down what you did on some Wiki page so that others can repeat your tests that would be really helpful. Regards Thilo ___ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
