Re: [WikimediaMobile] Increasing mobile beta audience
> CC'ing Greg to help us think how to approach percentage based releases > and what would be in our way to do them. Hi there! > On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Jon Katz wrote: > > Jon, > > Are there any technical reasons not to explore the % rollout model for > > collections instead of beta? I'd love to see what you come up with for this that takes into account all of the oddities of our deployment system as it is (ie: versions of mediawiki and extensions are different depending on which wiki you visit). Jon or whoever (Sam?) can you include me and my team in your explorations here? I want to figure out something that we can do, even if for only a limited sub-set of things, to make percentage based rollouts possible. The "real" answer is something along the lines of what Facebook does: * No artificial distinction in code version depending on site * All servers serving the same code for all users (except during deployments, which are also percentage based, but that's handled at the LVS laye) * Staff are transparently sent to the staging build * Features can be turned on by region/percentage/etc with the toggle of a button (enabled by Gatekeeper, which is basically fancy feature flag toggling. It gives a PM or whoever a UI to turn the dials on who sees what when. See: https://www.quora.com/How-does-Facebooks-Gatekeeper-service-work?share=1 We aren't there yet :) So anything you can think of that works reliably might be useful here. Can someone start a conversation with my team/ops as needed? Feel free to bring strawmen proposals! Thanks! -- | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D | ___ Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Re: [WikimediaMobile] Increasing mobile beta audience
CC'ing Greg to help us think how to approach percentage based releases and what would be in our way to do them. --tomasz On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Jon Katz wrote: > Jon, > Are there any technical reasons not to explore the % rollout model for > collections instead of beta? > -J > > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Maryana Pinchuk > wrote: >> >> Yeah, I think there are a lot of problems with the opt-in beta model. I >> much prefer releasing new features to a small % of users, logging >> events/usage, and if we suspect something has the potential to be >> disruptive/offputting, letting them know the feature they're seeing is beta >> and letting them turn it off. >> >> That said, beta is still useful for sandboxing new features and in-person >> user testing, so I don't think we should kill it altogether. I just think we >> need to supplement it with a graduated release model – which we're already >> doing with stuff like WikiGrok :) >> >> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Sam Smith >> wrote: Have we thought about automatically opting people into beta mode e.g. a sample of our users in a certain geographic region / certain zero enabled area/ all users in a certain bucket based on their user id ? >>> >>> >>> I like this idea. In fact, I'm for it, provided that we make it clear to >>> the user that they've been entered into an experiment and they're seeing >>> non-standard UI. >>> How many users could beta actually handle? >>> >>> >>> Not sure. But, interestingly, we can find out by bucketing users and >>> slowly assigning them the beta variant. >>> Is this technically possible? >>> >>> >>> Yes. If we're generating and storing tokens on the client, which we do >>> for anonymous users in other experiments, then we can enter anonymous users >>> into the experiment at the cost of a little control over how tokens are >>> stored. >>> If someone was bucketed into beta would they be able to opt out into stable again under any of the above situations? >>> >>> >>> See my first inline response. We must make it clear to the user that >>> they're seeing a variant of an experiment… and we must make it simple to opt >>> out of the experiment. >>> >>> Also, all instrumentation for beta features will need to be augmented >>> with a is_beta_opt_in flag. >>> >>> –Sam >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Jon Robson >>> wrote: One of the frustrations I have heard so far is that the audience there is too small to get meaningful data around various experiments. Currently people have to opt in by going to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileOptions which is hidden away in the mobile interface. They can do this whilst anonymous or logged in. Have we thought about automatically opting people into beta mode e.g. a sample of our users in a certain geographic region / certain zero enabled area/ all users in a certain bucket based on their user id ? How many users could beta actually handle? Is this technically possible? If someone was bucketed into beta would they be able to opt out into stable again under any of the above situations? Jon ___ Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Maryana Pinchuk >> Product Manager, Wikimedia Foundation >> wikimediafoundation.org >> >> ___ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> > > > ___ > Mobile-l mailing list > Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l > ___ Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Re: [WikimediaMobile] Luis van Ahn/crowdsourcing
Luis is also reaching out. Could you see where he's at? > On Feb 6, 2015, at 13:52, Tomasz Finc wrote: > > I spoke with them at Google I/O many months back and they would love > to talk more. Let me reach out again. > > --tomasz > >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Maryana Pinchuk >> wrote: >> We've been talking about this guy for ages (and I think roughly half the >> mobile team uses Duolingo at this point) – wasn't someone going to try to >> put us in touch? :) >> >>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Toby Negrin wrote: >>> >>> Some interesting links from one of the early crowdsourcing people: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_von_Ahn >>> >>> http://www.ted.com/talks/luis_von_ahn_massive_scale_online_collaboration?language=en >>> >>> His current gig: >>> >>> https://www.duolingo.com/ >>> >>> -Toby >>> >>> ___ >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> >> >> >> -- >> Maryana Pinchuk >> Product Manager, Wikimedia Foundation >> wikimediafoundation.org >> >> ___ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> ___ Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Re: [WikimediaMobile] Luis van Ahn/crowdsourcing
I spoke with them at Google I/O many months back and they would love to talk more. Let me reach out again. --tomasz On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Maryana Pinchuk wrote: > We've been talking about this guy for ages (and I think roughly half the > mobile team uses Duolingo at this point) – wasn't someone going to try to > put us in touch? :) > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Toby Negrin wrote: >> >> Some interesting links from one of the early crowdsourcing people: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_von_Ahn >> >> http://www.ted.com/talks/luis_von_ahn_massive_scale_online_collaboration?language=en >> >> His current gig: >> >> https://www.duolingo.com/ >> >> -Toby >> >> ___ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> > > > > -- > Maryana Pinchuk > Product Manager, Wikimedia Foundation > wikimediafoundation.org > > ___ > Mobile-l mailing list > Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l > ___ Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
Re: [WikimediaMobile] [Apps] Wikipedia Lite app?
I'll be eager to see you guys write up your findings after the spikes are over. thanks for moving that forward. --tomasz On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:05 AM, Gautam Chandna wrote: > OEMs care about the size of their OS, as this is stored in a restricted > read-only area (unless a device is rooted). Once the device is running, > those limitations don't apply as an app has tons of space to update itself. > > Quite like the network installer concept for desktop applications, OEMs > prefer if the pre-install is a small package that in itself doesn't > necessarily do much other than download the real app. > > > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Yuri Astrakhan > wrote: >> >> Don't preload apps still get over-the-air updates, often the whole app >> re-download? >> >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Carolynne Schloeder >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, yes app size and yes optimization :-) >>> >>> App size does matter >>> OEM's are sensitive to the size of the app for preload. They were >>> satisfied with our last version that was under 3MB; we'll find out what they >>> will tolerate. And we will likely push appstore promotion as part of our >>> deep dive.[1] >>> >>> Couple of thoughts on optimization: >>> Yuri already worked to compress images on mobile web, only deployed on >>> zero partners so far. Rolling out the image compression could be an easy >>> start to reduce the page load. >>> >>> In a couple of weeks, we will get into Facebook/Ericsson's network >>> simulation lab in Menlo Park, where we can experience our UX on low end >>> devices and slow networks. >>> >>> Dan and Maryana, can you help me organize who should go to the lab? >>> >>> Thanks -- >>> >>> Carolynne >>> >>> [1] The Wikipedia Zero team is getting together with product, UX, comms >>> and GLEE to go deep in one country, to understand the context for Wikipedia >>> usage and how we can unlock growth in underserved market segments - beyond >>> just making data free. More info in our QR notes. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Dan Garry wrote: On 1 February 2015 at 14:48, Toby Negrin wrote: > > Dan -- can you please limit the scope to sizing the android app? I > think that's more relevant to reaching people in the developing world. I think that depends. In a world where we're focussing on preloads, the size of the app is pretty immaterial as the user isn't paying the cost for downloading it. In that world, the best optimisations to make are probably reducing network traffic and improving performance on slower devices, things where there's lot of room for improvement in our code base. Also, our Android app is also an order of magnitude smaller than Facebook's Android app, so that's less of an issue for us. Facebook evidently decided to TACKLE ALL THE THINGS with Facebook Lite. > Also, can you see what percent of our GS traffic uses 2.3? Google has > it at about 10% globally but we need to understand our target market > better. > You might also want to check in with your new contact at App Annie to see > if > they have useful GS data. Absolutely. Dan -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Carolynne Schloeder >>> Director Global Mobile Partnerships >>> Wikimedia Foundation >>> +14154077071 >>> skype: cschloeder >>> >>> ___ >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >> >> >> ___ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> > > > > -- > Gautam Chandna | Director - Technical Partner Management | gaut...@opera.com > | +47-4567-1789 > > ___ > Mobile-l mailing list > Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l > ___ Mobile-l mailing list Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
