Re: [OT] Perl vs. PHP..... but where is mod_perl?

[Alfred Vahau]

It is now clear that the article is no longer available so I can't
have first hand information. But the listings on the subject is
clear what the issue is all about. In this part of the world where
open source software is yet to make its impact, the language war
does a lot of damage to our cause here: promote open source
software. I take comfort from the words in Sriram's book
(APP) that man went to the moon amidst the language wars
between two of the dominant programming languages of that era.

So I take the view that it's all about getting a job done. I had a
problem with the computing environment here, looked for a
solution, found perl and have not looked back. In fact, there is
much the language has to offer for me. I take pride in knowing that
the regex of perl is super, and other languages emulate it and
that's one of the reasons why I stick with Perl. I'm aware of what the
other languages have to offer and in fact, standard perl references
such as OOP (Conway) or MRE (Friedl)
all contrast some feature of perl with other languages. That doesn't mean
that
I have to suddenly abandon perl. If I need to do a job, I will find out
first how it's done in Perl and if it can't be done, then explore solutions
from other languages.

Perl for Power, Elegance, Robustness and Longitivity.


Alfred Vahau
Perl Advocate
Uni. PNG

Jeff Stuart wrote:

> 
> Ok, I've been watching the list for most of the day and watching
> "bashing" of PHP (which IMHO is idiotic and immature but again, JMHO).
> I have ALWAYS said, use the right tool for the right job.
>
> PHP has it's place.  IMNSHO, it's place is web interfaces.  It's GOOD at
> that.  That's what it ORIGINALLY was designed for.
>
> Perl on the other hand was not ORIGINALLY designed for that (I
> REMEMBER.  I used Perl 4 way back when.  I REMEMBER (VAGUELY) the
> changes between the last 4.X and 5.0 and all the work I had to go
> through with it. :)).  Perl was originally designed for text
> manipulation.  IE PERL = Practical Extraction and Reporting Language.  I
> started out with Perl and C.  Then migrated to mod_perl about 2 years
> ago.  At that time, PHP wasn't up to snuff IMHO for serious work.  It is
> now.
>
> I now use both PHP AND PERL!  IE I have 3 tools in my toolbox instead of
> 1.
>
> I use PHP for the front end web interface.  I use mod_perl for the
> backend work.  IE doing DB manipulations, text manips, sending out
> emails, etc.  I also use straight perl scripts for the above when those
> actions need to happen via cron.  And if I have to, I DO dip down into C
> for those times when I ABSOLUTELY need speed.
>
> I am VERY excited about mod_perl 2.0.  I am looking forward to hopefully
> being able to use it with SOAP to create application servers that ARE
> EASY to work with/write.  (Not like java IMHO :)).
>
> As far as security holes go, ALL languages have em.  Just that more
> people use PHP than mod_perl.  So it's security holes are more
> noticeable.  ANYONE can write insecure apps in ANY language.
>
> 
> --
> Jeff Stuart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   
>Name: signature.asc
>signature.asc   Type: application/pgp-signature
> Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [OT] Perl vs. PHP..... but where is mod_perl?

[Jeff Stuart]

Ok, I've been watching the list for most of the day and watching
"bashing" of PHP (which IMHO is idiotic and immature but again, JMHO). 
I have ALWAYS said, use the right tool for the right job.  

PHP has it's place.  IMNSHO, it's place is web interfaces.  It's GOOD at
that.  That's what it ORIGINALLY was designed for.

Perl on the other hand was not ORIGINALLY designed for that (I
REMEMBER.  I used Perl 4 way back when.  I REMEMBER (VAGUELY) the
changes between the last 4.X and 5.0 and all the work I had to go
through with it. :)).  Perl was originally designed for text
manipulation.  IE PERL = Practical Extraction and Reporting Language.  I
started out with Perl and C.  Then migrated to mod_perl about 2 years
ago.  At that time, PHP wasn't up to snuff IMHO for serious work.  It is
now.  

I now use both PHP AND PERL!  IE I have 3 tools in my toolbox instead of
1.  

I use PHP for the front end web interface.  I use mod_perl for the
backend work.  IE doing DB manipulations, text manips, sending out
emails, etc.  I also use straight perl scripts for the above when those
actions need to happen via cron.  And if I have to, I DO dip down into C
for those times when I ABSOLUTELY need speed.  

I am VERY excited about mod_perl 2.0.  I am looking forward to hopefully
being able to use it with SOAP to create application servers that ARE
EASY to work with/write.  (Not like java IMHO :)).  

As far as security holes go, ALL languages have em.  Just that more
people use PHP than mod_perl.  So it's security holes are more
noticeable.  ANYONE can write insecure apps in ANY language.  


-- 
Jeff Stuart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [OT] Perl vs. PHP..... but where is mod_perl?

[Jeff Stuart]

Ok, I've been watching the list for most of the day and watching
"bashing" of PHP (which IMHO is idiotic and immature but again, JMHO). 
I have ALWAYS said, use the right tool for the right job.  

PHP has it's place.  IMNSHO, it's place is web interfaces.  It's GOOD at
that.  That's what it ORIGINALLY was designed for.

Perl on the other hand was not ORIGINALLY designed for that (I
REMEMBER.  I used Perl 4 way back when.  I REMEMBER (VAGUELY) the
changes between the last 4.X and 5.0 and all the work I had to go
through with it. :)).  Perl was originally designed for text
manipulation.  IE PERL = Practical Extraction and Reporting Language.  I
started out with Perl and C.  Then migrated to mod_perl about 2 years
ago.  At that time, PHP wasn't up to snuff IMHO for serious work.  It is
now.  

I now use both PHP AND PERL!  IE I have 3 tools in my toolbox instead of
1.  

I use PHP for the front end web interface.  I use mod_perl for the
backend work.  IE doing DB manipulations, text manips, sending out
emails, etc.  I also use straight perl scripts for the above when those
actions need to happen via cron.  And if I have to, I DO dip down into C
for those times when I ABSOLUTELY need speed.  

I am VERY excited about mod_perl 2.0.  I am looking forward to hopefully
being able to use it with SOAP to create application servers that ARE
EASY to work with/write.  (Not like java IMHO :)).  

As far as security holes go, ALL languages have em.  Just that more
people use PHP than mod_perl.  So it's security holes are more
noticeable.  ANYONE can write insecure apps in ANY language.  


-- 
Jeff Stuart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [OT] Perl vs. PHP..... but where is mod_perl?

[Thomas Eibner]

On Fri, Oct 18, 2002 at 05:05:47PM +0100, Jeff AA wrote:
>  - I get 
> 
>   The requested story: 19716 has not been published (set live) yet.
> 
> when I visit http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19716.html
> 
> Do you think the lists comments upset someone? 8-)

It better have. I'm sure the php team wouldn't even put something
like that up.

Maybe Randall should even contact them and offer his services in
fixing their broken site. (I got the Apache::Cookie:: scalar link
too).

-- 
  Thomas Eibner  DnsZone 
  mod_pointer  
  !(C)  
  Putting the HEST in .COM 

FW: [JOB - Florida]

[Tammy Orange]

> Sr. Software Engineer
> 
> Senior-level software engineers to work in the Applications Development
> group creating SportsLine.com's suite of fantasy sports products and our
> personalized sports site.
> http://www.sportsline.com
> 
> Responsibilities: 
> >Develop, test, maintain, and support high performance, scalable,
> innovative web-based applications 
> >Work in all phases of a rapid product development lifecycle 
> >Frequent interaction with all aspects of product development, including
> customer service, technical support, software design, and quality
> assurance teams 
> 
> Requirements: 
> 4+ years of experience developing on the Unix operating system
> 4+ years of experience with the Perl programming language 
> 2+ years of experience developing server-side dynamic applications. 
> B.S. in Computer Science or equivalent (M.S. a plus) 
> Experience developing/designing large software systems 
> Ability to adapt to a rapidly changing environment 
> Experience with Java, JavaScript, Apache web servers, mod_perl and SQL
> databases is a plus 
> 
> 
> Tammy Lee Orange
> Manager of Human Resources
> SportsLine.com
> 2200 W Cypress Creek Road
> Fort Lauderdale, FL 33309
> 954-351-2120 Ext. 7614
> http://www.sportsline.com/info/about/careers
> 
> 

Re: getting the PID for a request

[Damyan Ivanov]

On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 03:56:55PM +0530 Sylbert L wrote:
> Is there any way I can get the Process Id or thread ID for a particular
> process / thread that is handling my request ? thanks a bunch ..

What's wrong with $$ ?
> 

dam

-- 
Damyan Ivanov Creditreform Bulgaria
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.creditreform.bg/
phone: +359 2 928 2611, 929 3993   fax: +359 2 920 0994
mobile: +359 88 566067

make test can't resolve modules to test with

[Dale Bewley]

Trying to build mod_perl-1.99_07 on Solaris 8 with perl 5.8.0 and apache
2.0.43. make test completely fails. It seems like it isn't using @INC.
Because even though the dir containing a package is listed in @INC the
test can't resolve the module.


Here's output from an individual test.

[root@host t]#./TEST -verbose apache/cgihandler.t
/usr/local/apache/bin/httpd  -d
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t -f
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/conf/httpd.conf
-DAPACHE2 -DPERL_USEITHREADS
using Apache/2.0.43 (prefork MPM)
waiting for server to start: 00:04[Mon Oct 21 16:52:08 2002] [info] 21
Apache::
modules loaded
[Mon Oct 21 16:52:08 2002] [info] 5 APR:: modules loaded
[Mon Oct 21 16:52:08 2002] [info] base server + 5 vhosts ready to run
tests
waiting for server to start: 00:08[Mon Oct 21 16:52:12 2002] [info] 20
Apache::
modules loaded
[Mon Oct 21 16:52:12 2002] [info] 5 APR:: modules loaded
[Mon Oct 21 16:52:12 2002] [info] base server + 5 vhosts ready to run
tests
waiting for server to start: ok (waited 18 secs)
server localhost:8529 started
server localhost:8530 listening (TestDirective::perlmodule)
server localhost:8531 listening (TestDirective::perlrequire)
server localhost:8532 listening (TestProtocol::echo_filter)
server localhost:8533 listening (TestProtocol::echo)
server localhost:8534 listening (TestFilter::input_msg)
apache/cgihandler1..2
# Failed test 1 in apache/cgihandler.t at line 16
not ok 1
# Failed test 2 in apache/cgihandler.t at line 20
not ok 2
FAILED tests 1-2
Failed 2/2 tests, 0.00% okay
Failed Test Stat Wstat Total Fail  Failed  List of Failed
---
apache/cgihandler.t22 100.00%  1-2
server localhost:8529 shutdown
error running tests (please examine t/logs/error_log)



And if I look in t/logs/error_log I see:


[Mon Oct 21 16:52:23 2002] [error] failed to resolve handler
`TestHooks::trans'
[Mon Oct 21 16:52:23 2002] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Can't locate
TestHooks/trans.pm in @INC (@INC contains:
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/blib/lib/Apache2
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/Apache-Test/lib
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/lib
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/blib/lib
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/blib/arch
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/response
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/protocol
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/hooks
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/filter
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/htdocs/testdirective/perlmodule-vh
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t/htdocs/testdirective/main
/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.0/sun4-solaris-thread-multi
/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.0
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/sun4-solaris-thread-multi
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0 /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl)
at (eval 15) line 3.

[root@host t]#pwd
/opt/software/bld/mod_perl-root/tmp/mod_perl-1.99_07/t
[root@host t]#find . -name trans.pm
./hooks/TestHooks/trans.pm

So, obviously the module is there. Any ideas?

--
Dale Bewley
Unix Server Administrator / Digital Library Consultant

Re: Apache::AuthCookie in mod_perl 1.99_5

[Michael Schout]

Any comments?


AuthCookie has not yet been ported to mod_perl 2.0.

Mike

[DIGEST] mod_perl digest 2002/10/07

[jgsmith]

--

  mod_perl digest
 
 October 7, 2002 - October 20, 2002

--

Recent happenings in the mod_perl world...

Features

  o mod_perl status
  o module announcements
  o module rfcs
  o mailing list highlights
  o links


mod_perl status

  o mod_perl
- stable: 1.27 (released June 1, 2002) [1]
- development: 1.27_01-dev [2]
- number of posts: 20 [*]
  o Apache
- stable: 1.3.27 (released October 3, 2002) [3]
- development: 1.3.28-dev [4]
  o mod_perl 2.0
- beta: 1.99_07 (released September 27, 2002) [5]
- development: (from cvs) [6]
- number of posts: 22 [*]
  o Apache 2.0
- stable: 2.0.43 (released October 3, 2002) [7]
  o Perl
- stable: 5.8.0 (released July 18, 2002) [8]
- development: none [9]


module announcements

  o Apache::ASP 2.45 - provides Perl-based ASP capabilities [10]

  o Apache::SessionManager 0.03 - manages sessions independent of the
content handler [11]

  o CGI::Application 2.6 - for creating sophisticated, reusable web
applications [12]

  o HTML::Mason 1.15 - web site development and delivery engine [13]


module rfcs

  o Apache::GeoIP - Perl interface to the GeoIP C library [14]


mailing list highlights

  o [OT] American TV and Ginsu Knives [15]

  o New naming conventions for modules [16]

  o mod_perl history [17]

  o Apache Hello World Benchmarks updated [18]

  o Job market situation [19]


links

  o The Apache/Perl Integration Project [20]
  o mod_perl documentation [21]
  o Apache modules on CPAN [22]
  o _Writing Apache Modules with Perl and C_ homepage [23]
  o _mod_perl Developer's Cookbook_ homepage [24]
  o mod_perl news and advocacy [25]
  o mod_perl list archives
  - modperl@ [26]
  - dev@ [27]
  - docs-dev@ [28]
  - advocacy@ [29]


happy mod_perling...

--James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
[1] http://perl.apache.org/dist/
[2] http://cvs.apache.org/snapshots/modperl/
[3] http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/
[4] http://cvs.apache.org/snapshots/apache-1.3/
[5] http://perl.apache.org/dist/mod_perl-1.99_04.tar.gz
[6] http://cvs.apache.org/snapshots/modperl-2.0/
[7] http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/
[8] http://www.cpan.org/src/stable.tar.gz
[9] http://www.cpan.org/src/README.html

[10] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/plunskoutrand
[11] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/wasnarbreu
[12] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/creitairo
[13] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/streeferlkra

[14] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/leeglahgrir

[15] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/remchougleh
 http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/sponkemstrau
 http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/frerdskoufri
[16] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/jehthoatrun
[17] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/polkhomstrom
[18] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/phalkoadir
[19] http://mathforum.org/epigone/modperl/twoxdemsmul

[20] http://perl.apache.org/
[21] http://perl.apache.org/docs/
[22] http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/Apache/
[23] http://www.modperl.com/
[24] http://www.modperlcookbook.org/
[25] http://www.take23.org/
[26] http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html#Searchable_Archives
[27] http://perl.apache.org/maillist/dev.html#Searchable_Archives
[28] http://perl.apache.org/maillist/docs-dev.html#Searchable_Archives
[29] http://perl.apache.org/maillist/advocacy.html#Searchable_Archives

[*] this is a rough estimate for the time covered by this digest of
the number of messages on the mod_perl discussion list (where
this digest is posted) that are primarily concerned with the
given version of mod_perl.  Mod_perl 1.99_xx is counted with
mod_perl 2.0.  Posts concerning Perl modules are not counted.

Minor bug in AuthCookieDBI ?

[George Valpak]

Hi - I am wondering if there is a bug in AuthCookieDBI.pm?

There is function group which is called to verify the user's group when there is a 
"Require group" directive. It starts like this:


sub group($$\@)
{
my( $self, $r, @groups ) = @_;


When more than one group is specified in the Require group directive, eg. "Require 
group group1 group2 group3", I would expect @groups to be an array with 3 elements, 
one for each of group1, group2, and group3. 

But what I get is a single string (or an array with one element depending on how you 
look at it) which has the entire groups string from the directive, e.g. "group1 group2 
group3". 

For now my workaround is to just split the string.

But shouldn't it either already be split, or be passed in as a string, not a list?

GV

Handler Access to vars created by other modules. (modperl 2.0)

[Erich Oliphant]

Hi,
I am creating a handler that logs key (request) 
variables passed from our client application.  I need to tie the entries I 
create to entries in the apache request log.  I was thinking that I could 
use the UNIQUE_ID created by mod_unique_id (i.e. stick it in access_log and 
the log generated by my handler and use the UNIQUE_ID's to correlate the 
log entries).  I am having difficulty accessing this variable (via the ENV 
hash).  I decided to make it a PerlLogHandler and register it REALLY_LAST, 
thinking that mod_unique_id would've exported UNIQUE_ID prior to that.  
However, that does not seem to be the case :) 
 
Any suggestions?
 
 
 
Thanks In Advance,
Erich

RE: SSL <-> mod_gzip <-> mod_perl = mod_proxy error

[Nigel Hamilton]

HI Adam,

Your speed vs time point is a good one. If the network is fast
then the time it takes the CPU to do the compression may negate any speed
benefits from compressing the message.

However, compression is generally worth it because:

* HTML compresses well - messages often compress by 80% or more. 
* Even though your network may be fast - the last mile over a 28.8 K 
modem can be slow - and compression helps here
* The CPU cost of calculating the compression can be avoiding by caching 
the compressed document in memory or on disk

On a side note ... I've had a tough time trying to get all the 
compression bits and pieces to work together.

I've tried mod_gzip and it worked well for non-SSL content ...  
however, it didn't work with SSL and the only workaround is proxying to a
second server ... and I couldn't get this to work with mod_perl. :-(

I then looked at mod_deflate but unfortunately this involved 
re-compiling the Apache source and applying patches etc.

Recently I've installed Apache:DynaGzip ... which installed no 
problem. 

Apache::DynaGzip, is supposed to work with SSL and can handle 
chunked dynamic output  which is what I'm looking for - I haven't set 
this up yet but will report my experiences back to the list.


NIgel



> I feel like most of my responses on this list ask 'why' rather than
> answer a question but:
> 
> Assuming you have an internet connection between 1 Mb and 10 Mb
> 
> You're internal network is running at 100Mb with 1Gb around the corner
> or already going.
> 
> Why bother compressing stuff when it seems clear that processing power
> is more of a bottleneck than bandwidth (because in the end, compression
> is always a tradeoff between computation and the quantity of information
> coming to/going out of your machine).
> 
> I would have to imagine that compression would only speed up the actual
> response time if the external connection is >25% (just a guess) of the
> internal speed limit.  So, in a typical 100Mb internal network, I
> wouldn't worry about compression unless I could actually deliver 25Mb to
> the end-user.  Of course, if we're paying for more than a 25Mb
> (10k/month?) connection to the internet, than the cost of a 1Gb network
> is nominal.
> 
> All this is moot if the app serves a lan, but still, I think the
> gzipping would simply make the application more sluggish rather than
> speed it up (I concede that I have not done any benchmarks) since
> internal network bandwidth is so cheap.
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Nigel Hamilton [mailto:nigel@;turbo10.com] 
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:47 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: SSL <-> mod_gzip <-> mod_perl = mod_proxy error
> 
> 
> Hi,
>   
>   I'm trying to hand all SSL requests to a backend mod_perl server
> 
> with mod_gzip installed for compression.
> 
>   This means that SSL content is pre-compressed by the backend 
> server before being encrypted by the frontend (Mini How To - below).
> 
>   Apparently mod_gzip and SSL on the same server will not work - 
> this is why I need to pass the request to a proxy to handle the
> compression.
>   
>   So ... a request on https://turbo10.com:446/index.html (server
> A)  
> passes to http://turbo10.com:44300/index.html (server B).
> 
>   The file is compressed by server B and passed back to server A
> for 
> encryption and tranmission to the client.
> 
>   This works fine for static files.
> 
>    BUT 
> 
>   Mod_perl scripts seem to fail: 
> 
>   https://turbo10.com:446/cgi-bin/splashpage1.cgi
> 
>   The log reports:
>   
> [Mon Oct 14 21:33:25 2002] [error] 
> proxy:http://turbo10.com:44300/cgi-bin/splashpage1.cgi not found or
> unable 
> to stat 
> 
>   However, when I access the proxy directly, the mod_perl script
> works fine (no access restrictions just yet):
>   
>   http://turbo10.com:44300/cgi-bin/splashpage1.cgi
>   
>   Any ideas? Is there some weird interaction between mod_perl + 
> mod_proxy?
>   
>   Even better ...  is there a way to do SSL compression in
> mod_perl
> with only one server?
> 
>   Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> NIgel 
>   
> 
> MOD_GZIP WITH SSL MINI HOWTO
> 
> Version 0.2 February 23, 2002
> Tim Behrendsen
> This document is released into the public domain.
> 
> INTRODUCTION
> 
> This document describes how to run mod_gzip over SSL connections using
> mod_ssl. The method described has been tested with Apache 1.3.22 under
> RedHat 7.2 (Kernel 2.4.13), mod_gzip 1.3.19.1a, mod_ssl 2.8.5 and
> OpenSSL
> 0.9.6b.
> 
> THE PROBLEM
> 
> One would expect to be able to just plug in mod_gzip into Apache in the
> normal way, and have it work with SSL. Unfortunately, due to technical
> issues with mod_ssl beyond the scope of this document (apparently
> mod_ssl
> greedily grabs the result before anyone else has a 

Re: SSL <-> mod_gzip <-> mod_perl = mod_proxy error

[Tom Hukins]

On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 08:11:16AM -0500, Nigel Hamilton wrote:
> 
> * Even though your network may be fast - the last mile over a 28.8 K 
> modem can be slow - and compression helps here

Most modems use compression protocols such as V.42bis.  You don't gain
much, if anything, from compressing data sent through such devices, or
from using other techniques such as stripping redundant whitespace
from HTML.

In my experience, most ISDN connections don't use link level
compression - techniques such as mod_gzip have some merit in this
case.

Tom

Re: Handler Access to vars created by other modules. (modperl 2.0)

[Perrin Harkins]

Erich Oliphant wrote:

I am having difficulty accessing this variable (via the ENV 
hash).  I decided to make it a PerlLogHandler and register it 
REALLY_LAST, thinking that mod_unique_id would've exported UNIQUE_ID 
prior to that.  However, that does not seem to be the case :)

Something is wrong with your mod_unique_id setup.  The mod_unique_id 
variable should in %ENV from the beginning.

- Perrin