Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
--- Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Okay, but I want my (quasi-production) environment > to > > remain stable and I don't want to expose it to > > constant patches. This will be even more > important > > once 2.0 becomes official. Maybe this doesn't > really > > apply to MP, but I also wouldn't want to break any > > dependencies that other modules have (i.e. MP may > > require an update to httpd, which breaks something > > else). (Of course, I wouldn't have this concern > if I > > had another system for pure development.) > > A properly designed production system, has a > thorough test suite and a > staging machine(s), so any new upgrade goes through > it. You can't just go, > upgrade the software and hope that it'll work. Any > new version may > introduce new bugs, so you are never protected if > you don't thoroughly > test *your* system. > Agreed. I don't have the luxury of having the required hardware, so I could not consider this a true production environment. Hence why I called it quasi-production; perhaps production-wanna-be would have been a better term. ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
Okay, but I want my (quasi-production) environment to remain stable and I don't want to expose it to constant patches. This will be even more important once 2.0 becomes official. Maybe this doesn't really apply to MP, but I also wouldn't want to break any dependencies that other modules have (i.e. MP may require an update to httpd, which breaks something else). (Of course, I wouldn't have this concern if I had another system for pure development.) A properly designed production system, has a thorough test suite and a staging machine(s), so any new upgrade goes through it. You can't just go, upgrade the software and hope that it'll work. Any new version may introduce new bugs, so you are never protected if you don't thoroughly test *your* system. Hence there is no need for an overhead of managing a bug tracking system. Those that aren't fixed are listed in the STATUS file, and/or in the todo/ directory. Bugzilla is a scary monster -- and its probably one of the lighter ones. Even posting a master spreadsheet or html table that includes historical bug details (not just summary) would be very useful. The developer team is too small and we have no time to manage a bug tracking system, if we get more people give us hand we may consider opening up a bug tracking system. Meanwhile if you want to search for bug reports you can search the mailing list archive. And we already have the RT system via CPAN, but nobody looks at it: http://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bugs.html?Dist=mod_perl I had no idea someone has reported the bugs. RT needs to send those bugs to the modperl list. Last time I tried to make that happen, it didn't work due to some email blocking issues at apache.org :( -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
--- Stas Bekman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thomas Hilbig wrote: > > > I hope I'm not re-hashing an old issue, but I have > > always found the MP bug tracking to be difficult. > If > > I see something peculiar (possible bug) there > isn't a > > bug database to search to see if it is new, or > fixed > > in later versions. Is there no repository for > logging > > MP bugs? Why isn't MP part of the bugzilla > database? > > Of course the mail-list may still be the best way > to > > report the bugs. > > Because we don't have bugs. Well we have a few, but > most bugs are fixed as soon as they are reported. Okay, but I want my (quasi-production) environment to remain stable and I don't want to expose it to constant patches. This will be even more important once 2.0 becomes official. Maybe this doesn't really apply to MP, but I also wouldn't want to break any dependencies that other modules have (i.e. MP may require an update to httpd, which breaks something else). (Of course, I wouldn't have this concern if I had another system for pure development.) >Hence there is no need > for an overhead of > managing a bug tracking system. Those that aren't > fixed are listed in the > STATUS file, and/or in the todo/ directory. > Bugzilla is a scary monster -- and its probably one of the lighter ones. Even posting a master spreadsheet or html table that includes historical bug details (not just summary) would be very useful. > -- > __ > Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another > mod_perl Hacker > http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> > http://perl.apache.org > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org > http://apacheweek.com > http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org > http://ticketmaster.com > __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
Thomas Hilbig wrote: I hope I'm not re-hashing an old issue, but I have always found the MP bug tracking to be difficult. If I see something peculiar (possible bug) there isn't a bug database to search to see if it is new, or fixed in later versions. Is there no repository for logging MP bugs? Why isn't MP part of the bugzilla database? Of course the mail-list may still be the best way to report the bugs. Because we don't have bugs. Well we have a few, but most bugs are fixed as soon as they are reported. Hence there is no need for an overhead of managing a bug tracking system. Those that aren't fixed are listed in the STATUS file, and/or in the todo/ directory. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
I have to admit that I have been using MP2 in a quasi-production environment. It has been very stable (no crashes) but I have been very shy to apply any new changes for some time (Apache 2.0.46, mod_perl 1.99_10, OpenSSL 0.9.7b) for fear it would de-stablize the environment. I am very much looking forward to the official MP 2.0 designation to upgrade my system some weekend. I hope I'm not re-hashing an old issue, but I have always found the MP bug tracking to be difficult. If I see something peculiar (possible bug) there isn't a bug database to search to see if it is new, or fixed in later versions. Is there no repository for logging MP bugs? Why isn't MP part of the bugzilla database? Of course the mail-list may still be the best way to report the bugs. Tom --- Carl Brewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello Stas et al, > Just a quick question; how far off a feature-freeze > is MP2? > ie: if I wanted to write a moderatly serious > e-commerce app > in mp, is it safe to use mp2 and apreq2? > > thanks! > > Carl > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
Geoffrey Young wrote: Yes, it is a pre-release version. The point is that it is stable enough to use in an enterprise (fortune 500 company) application. Is stable a reference to crashing or changes in the API ? I'm using a later version, 1.99_16, because the version that shipped with FC2, 1.99_12, was missing APIs (something to do with buckets) that are referred to on the modperl website and that i was trying to use. wrt API stability, recent 1.99_XX releases are very close to the way the official 2.0 release will look. those things that will change (either pre- or post-2.0) are APIs that the vast majority of people won't ever need. wrt "crashing"-type stability, mp2 is as stable as we can make it without people actually using it and finding things that only a real-world deployment can find. but we have had very few (any?) reports of random segfaults or crashes from those who have deployed it, so I guess we're doing something right :) The current cvs (1.99_17-tobe) has a few API changes since 1.99_16, and with that it's about 99.5% API complete: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/modperl-2.0/todo/api_status?view=markup So 1.99_17 will probably be what 2.0.0 will be, API-wise. We will ship a 2.0 release candidate really soon now. There are still a few complex problems that need to be resolved, which hold back the release. If you wish you can take a look at the todo list for the release and help if you can: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/modperl-2.0/todo/release?view=markup We will have 1.99_17 released soonish. -- __ Stas BekmanJAm_pH --> Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
RE: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
> -Original Message- > From: Matthew Darwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:00 PM > To: Scott Fagg > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2? > > I'm using a > > later version, 1.99_16, because the version that shipped with FC2, > > 1.99_12, was missing APIs (something to do with buckets) that are > > referred to on the modperl website and that i was trying to use. > > 1.99_12 was missing stuff I needed as well. > > Everything I need seems to be in 1.99_14 except a fix for a bug > related to merging of Perl configuration sections, which I > reported to > this list. Now that you mentioned it, that's holding me up too. I had some global stuff in httpd.conf, and local stuff in .htaccess, and i'm only seeing some of the settings. > > -- > Matthew Darwin > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.mdarwin.ca > > -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
RE: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
> -Original Message- > From: Geoffrey Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:57 PM > To: Scott Fagg > Cc: Matthew Darwin; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2? > > > >>Yes, it is a pre-release version. The point is that it is stable > >>enough to use in an enterprise (fortune 500 company) application. > > > > > > Is stable a reference to crashing or changes in the API ? > I'm using a > > later version, 1.99_16, because the version that shipped with FC2, > > 1.99_12, was missing APIs (something to do with buckets) that are > > referred to on the modperl website and that i was trying to use. > > wrt API stability, recent 1.99_XX releases are very close to > the way the > official 2.0 release will look. those things that will > change (either pre- > or post-2.0) are APIs that the vast majority of people won't > ever need. > > wrt "crashing"-type stability, mp2 is as stable as we can > make it without > people actually using it and finding things that only a real-world > deployment can find. but we have had very few (any?) reports > of random > segfaults or crashes from those who have deployed it, so I > guess we're doing > something right :) My concern has only ever been with API-stability and the availability of the support modules (e.g. libapreq2). Once they appear stable, i'll start to move my mp1 code to mp2. I don't recall the last time mod_perl was the source of a crash. > > HTH > > --Geoff > > -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
Scott Fagg wrote: Yes, it is a pre-release version. The point is that it is stable enough to use in an enterprise (fortune 500 company) application. Is stable a reference to crashing or changes in the API ? Crashing. I'm using a later version, 1.99_16, because the version that shipped with FC2, 1.99_12, was missing APIs (something to do with buckets) that are referred to on the modperl website and that i was trying to use. 1.99_12 was missing stuff I needed as well. Everything I need seems to be in 1.99_14 except a fix for a bug related to merging of Perl configuration sections, which I reported to this list. -- Matthew Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdarwin.ca -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
>>Yes, it is a pre-release version. The point is that it is >>stable enough to use in an enterprise (fortune 500 company) >>application. > > > Is stable a reference to crashing or changes in the API ? I'm using a > later version, 1.99_16, because the version that shipped with FC2, > 1.99_12, was missing APIs (something to do with buckets) that are > referred to on the modperl website and that i was trying to use. wrt API stability, recent 1.99_XX releases are very close to the way the official 2.0 release will look. those things that will change (either pre- or post-2.0) are APIs that the vast majority of people won't ever need. wrt "crashing"-type stability, mp2 is as stable as we can make it without people actually using it and finding things that only a real-world deployment can find. but we have had very few (any?) reports of random segfaults or crashes from those who have deployed it, so I guess we're doing something right :) HTH --Geoff -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
RE: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
> -Original Message- > From: Matthew Darwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:42 PM > To: Scott Fagg > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2? > > > > Scott Fagg wrote: > > >>Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Unix) mod_perl/1.99_14 Perl/v5.8.3 DAV/2 > > > > > > It would appear your using mp 1.99_14, which i thought was a > > pre-release version, and not the first official release of mp2? > > Yes, it is a pre-release version. The point is that it is > stable enough to use in an enterprise (fortune 500 company) > application. Is stable a reference to crashing or changes in the API ? I'm using a later version, 1.99_16, because the version that shipped with FC2, 1.99_12, was missing APIs (something to do with buckets) that are referred to on the modperl website and that i was trying to use. > > 1.99_14 was the latest available at the time the product went > into feature-freeze. > > -- > Matthew Darwin > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.mdarwin.ca > > -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
Scott Fagg wrote: Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Unix) mod_perl/1.99_14 Perl/v5.8.3 DAV/2 It would appear your using mp 1.99_14, which i thought was a pre-release version, and not the first official release of mp2? Yes, it is a pre-release version. The point is that it is stable enough to use in an enterprise (fortune 500 company) application. 1.99_14 was the latest available at the time the product went into feature-freeze. -- Matthew Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdarwin.ca -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
RE: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
> -Original Message- > From: Matthew Darwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:36 PM > To: Carl Brewer > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2? > > I'm using mp2 production now. > > http://demo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Unix) mod_perl/1.99_14 Perl/v5.8.3 DAV/2 It would appear your using mp 1.99_14, which i thought was a pre-release version, and not the first official release of mp2? > > > > Carl Brewer wrote: > > > > > > Hello Stas et al, > > Just a quick question; how far off a feature-freeze is MP2? > > ie: if I wanted to write a moderatly serious e-commerce app > in mp, is > > it safe to use mp2 and apreq2? > > > > thanks! > > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Matthew Darwin > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.mdarwin.ca > > -- > Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: > http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html > List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html > > > -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
Re: [mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
I'm using mp2 production now. http://demo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Unix) mod_perl/1.99_14 Perl/v5.8.3 DAV/2 Carl Brewer wrote: Hello Stas et al, Just a quick question; how far off a feature-freeze is MP2? ie: if I wanted to write a moderatly serious e-commerce app in mp, is it safe to use mp2 and apreq2? thanks! Carl -- Matthew Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdarwin.ca -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
[mp2] how far off feature-freeze is mp2?
Hello Stas et al, Just a quick question; how far off a feature-freeze is MP2? ie: if I wanted to write a moderatly serious e-commerce app in mp, is it safe to use mp2 and apreq2? thanks! Carl -- Report problems: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html List etiquette: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/email-etiquette.html
