RE: [Mono-list] XAML Support ???

[Pettibone, Micheal L]

>> >> "Exactly how do you want to implement a basically unknown api that doesnt
exist yet now?"

>> Does this help for documentation?


Sorry, I meant to give the following link instead.  The below URL looks to me to be a 
good start on a Microsoft API for XAML.

[1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/port_ref_elements.aspx

[2]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/

--Micheal






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Pettibone, Micheal L
Sent: Mon 3/15/2004 1:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Mono-list] XAML Support ???



>> "Exactly how do you want to implement a basically unknown api that doesnt
exist yet now?"

Does this help for documentation?

[1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/ref/msavalon.windows.media.aspx


--Micheal




From: Todd Berman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ]
Sent: Mon 3/15/2004 12:26 AM
To: Pettibone, Micheal L
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Mono-list] XAML Support ???



Exactly how do you want to implement a basically unknown api that doesnt
exist yet now?

as many have said, XAML is not the issue, XAML is a cute feature, the
issue is Avalon. And implementing Avalon at this point without any real,
solid API docs is like asking to spend time on something that will
completely change before it even hits a real beta.

Don't get me wrong, I think implementing Avalon is insanely important,
but *now* is really not the time in my opinion.

--Todd

On Sun, 2004-14-03 at 21:37 -0600, Pettibone, Micheal L wrote:

> Seeing that the Mono project is coming along very well - I wanted to address what I 
> feel to be a very important upcoming feature of the .NET Framework, XAML.  For those 
> of you that do not know, XAML (pronounce as "zamel") is much like Mozilla's XUL with 
> some distinct differences.
>
> o  XAML tags map directly to .NET classes.
> o  XAML files can be compiled.
> o  XAML will be native to Longhorn's IE7 browser.
> o  XAML has the ability to let someone embed code within it :(
>
> With the above listed, XAML will greatly blur the line between what people perceive 
> as an OS application and a web application.
>
>
> Has there being any talk of supporting XAML and if so, will this also be implemented 
> in Mozilla so that Linux (and even Windows if you were to run the Mozilla browser on 
> Windows) can reap the benefits of XAML?
>
>
> I would greatly like to help in development and/or help organize development the 
> implemention of XAML -NOW-.  Let's not what until after the fact :)
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Micheal Pettibone
>
> 
> References:
>
> [1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx 
> 
>
> [2]  http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2003_10.html 
> 
>
> [3]  
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/DevelopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx
>  
> 
>
> [4]  http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/Avalon/default.aspx 
> 
>
> ___
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RE: [Mono-list] XAML Support ???

[Pettibone, Micheal L]

>> "Exactly how do you want to implement a basically unknown api that doesnt
exist yet now?"

Does this help for documentation?

[1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/ref/msavalon.windows.media.aspx


--Micheal




From: Todd Berman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mon 3/15/2004 12:26 AM
To: Pettibone, Micheal L
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Mono-list] XAML Support ???



Exactly how do you want to implement a basically unknown api that doesnt
exist yet now?

as many have said, XAML is not the issue, XAML is a cute feature, the
issue is Avalon. And implementing Avalon at this point without any real,
solid API docs is like asking to spend time on something that will
completely change before it even hits a real beta.

Don't get me wrong, I think implementing Avalon is insanely important,
but *now* is really not the time in my opinion.

--Todd

On Sun, 2004-14-03 at 21:37 -0600, Pettibone, Micheal L wrote:

> Seeing that the Mono project is coming along very well - I wanted to address what I 
> feel to be a very important upcoming feature of the .NET Framework, XAML.  For those 
> of you that do not know, XAML (pronounce as "zamel") is much like Mozilla's XUL with 
> some distinct differences.
>
> o  XAML tags map directly to .NET classes.
> o  XAML files can be compiled.
> o  XAML will be native to Longhorn's IE7 browser.
> o  XAML has the ability to let someone embed code within it :(
>
> With the above listed, XAML will greatly blur the line between what people perceive 
> as an OS application and a web application.
>
>
> Has there being any talk of supporting XAML and if so, will this also be implemented 
> in Mozilla so that Linux (and even Windows if you were to run the Mozilla browser on 
> Windows) can reap the benefits of XAML?
>
>
> I would greatly like to help in development and/or help organize development the 
> implemention of XAML -NOW-.  Let's not what until after the fact :)
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Micheal Pettibone
>
> 
> References:
>
> [1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx 
> 
>
> [2]  http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2003_10.html 
> 
>
> [3]  
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/DevelopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx
>  
> 
>
> [4]  http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/Avalon/default.aspx 
> 
>
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Re: [Mono-list] XSP stops responding

[Gonzalo Paniagua Javier]

El dom, 14-03-2004 a las 21:35, David Mitchell escribió:
> More on this, after running this under different environments (Windows 
> w/ .Net) and trying various apps I've discovered this only happens when 
> running on mono and running a codebehind page. Even the codebehind test 
> page in the xsp package has this freezing problem. This fails on 
> mod_mono too. I suspect this is a problem in the Mono Class Libraries 
> for codebehind (Gonzalo?).

We are aware of this problem (not only codebehind). I think there's
already a bug report for it.

Thanks.

-Gonzalo


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Re: [Mono-list] Apache on Windows

[Gonzalo Paniagua Javier]

El sáb, 13-03-2004 a las 04:22, Anton Bester escribió:
> Hi There
> 
> What do I need to do to get Mono running with Apache on Windows 2000,
> I have installed the Mono Setup, Don't I need to spesify the mod_mono
> module in the httpd.conf file for Apache? and were do I get this
> module?

mod_mono doesn't work on windows yet. We need a small patch in
mod_mono.c and a few lines more in the runtime to handle named pipes à
la windows.

Patches are welcome.

-Gonzalo


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Re: [Mono-list] XAML Support ???

[Todd Berman]

Exactly how do you want to implement a basically unknown api that doesnt
exist yet now?

as many have said, XAML is not the issue, XAML is a cute feature, the
issue is Avalon. And implementing Avalon at this point without any real,
solid API docs is like asking to spend time on something that will
completely change before it even hits a real beta.

Don't get me wrong, I think implementing Avalon is insanely important,
but *now* is really not the time in my opinion.

--Todd

On Sun, 2004-14-03 at 21:37 -0600, Pettibone, Micheal L wrote:

> Seeing that the Mono project is coming along very well - I wanted to address what I 
> feel to be a very important upcoming feature of the .NET Framework, XAML.  For those 
> of you that do not know, XAML (pronounce as "zamel") is much like Mozilla's XUL with 
> some distinct differences.
> 
> o  XAML tags map directly to .NET classes.
> o  XAML files can be compiled.
> o  XAML will be native to Longhorn's IE7 browser. 
> o  XAML has the ability to let someone embed code within it :( 
> 
> With the above listed, XAML will greatly blur the line between what people perceive 
> as an OS application and a web application.
> 
> 
> Has there being any talk of supporting XAML and if so, will this also be implemented 
> in Mozilla so that Linux (and even Windows if you were to run the Mozilla browser on 
> Windows) can reap the benefits of XAML?
> 
> 
> I would greatly like to help in development and/or help organize development the 
> implemention of XAML -NOW-.  Let's not what until after the fact :)
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Micheal Pettibone
> 
> 
> References:
> 
> [1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx 
>  
> 
> [2]  http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2003_10.html 
>  
> 
> [3]  
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/DevelopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx
>  
> 
>  
> 
> [4]  http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/Avalon/default.aspx 
>  
> 
> ___
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[Andy Lewis]

Actually Migel, I believe I started this round with this question, and 
while I am not a lwyer, I do have a fundamental understanding of the 
difference beween patents and copyrights. In addition, I have read, and 
re-read the FAQ, and everything else I could find on this particular 
topic before posting to this list. I certainly understnad that this is a 
topic that has been beaten to death time and again, but I am asking it 
because I do not yet have a clear answer, and the FAQ does not provide 
it either. If I am asking in the wrong place, I apologize, and please 
tell me where I shoudl ask. I use both Linux and Windows personally and 
profesionally, and while, yes, I do personally prefer Linux. My concerns 
over this topic I feel are legitmate. I ask the same questions about 
every technology I use- I read every license agreement, and every legal 
document I sign. I am sorry if you feel that concern over a recurrance 
of historical pattern of behavior in the case of Microsoft is bigotry. 
My question is as follows:

My understanding is that any implementation of the ECMA specifications 
for the CLI, etc, is known to be covered by patents held by Microsoft. 
Such a submision is allowable under th eEMCA rules provided that the 
patents are licensable under "Reasonable and Non-discriminatory" (RAND). 
My conceen is that RAND does not imply compatibility iwth the GPL or any 
other open source license, and I am trying to find out ifth eMono 
project is specifically licensed for the patents covering the ECMA 
specification, of simply relying on public statments regarding them.

Thanks...

Miguel de Icaza wrote:

Hello,

 

does that mean thay you/mono-devel-team doesn't know the answer to my
(original) question?
   

We have gone through this too many times, to the point that we have
added this to the FAQ.
It means you are just very late asking that question, and most people
are bored to death with the subject who has been answered in the FAQ.
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[Mono-list] XAML Support ???

[Pettibone, Micheal L]

Seeing that the Mono project is coming along very well - I wanted to address what I 
feel to be a very important upcoming feature of the .NET Framework, XAML.  For those 
of you that do not know, XAML (pronounce as "zamel") is much like Mozilla's XUL with 
some distinct differences.

o  XAML tags map directly to .NET classes.
o  XAML files can be compiled.
o  XAML will be native to Longhorn's IE7 browser. 
o  XAML has the ability to let someone embed code within it :( 

With the above listed, XAML will greatly blur the line between what people perceive as 
an OS application and a web application.


Has there being any talk of supporting XAML and if so, will this also be implemented 
in Mozilla so that Linux (and even Windows if you were to run the Mozilla browser on 
Windows) can reap the benefits of XAML?


I would greatly like to help in development and/or help organize development the 
implemention of XAML -NOW-.  Let's not what until after the fact :)


Regards,

Micheal Pettibone


References:

[1]  http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx 
 

[2]  http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2003_10.html 
 

[3]  
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/DevelopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx 

 

[4]  http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/01/Avalon/default.aspx 
 

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Re: [Mono-list] XSP stops responding

[David Mitchell]

I've discovered this only happens when 
running on mono and running a codebehind page.
Ok, I'm wrong. This isn't limited to codebehind and this happens on any 
of the xsp tests. Try opening any of the xsp tests in your browser 
(through xsp of course). Say server-side-object.aspx, but it doesn't 
matter. Hit refresh repeatedly (it doesn't have to be fast) and 
eventually you'll have your browser waiting for the page to load and a 
frozen xsp.

This isn't just my setup as I have two other boxes with different 
configurations and they both have this problem too.

--
David Mitchell
Software Engineer
Telogis
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Re: [Mono-list] XSP stops responding

[David Mitchell]

More on this, after running this under different environments (Windows 
w/ .Net) and trying various apps I've discovered this only happens when 
running on mono and running a codebehind page. Even the codebehind test 
page in the xsp package has this freezing problem. This fails on 
mod_mono too. I suspect this is a problem in the Mono Class Libraries 
for codebehind (Gonzalo?).

Help would be appreciated.

--
David Mitchell
Software Engineer
Telogis
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[Mono-list] XSP stops responding

[David Mitchell]

I'm running an ASP.Net application through XSP on the CVS version of 
mono. XSP has a habit of simply stopping after a few pages have been 
requested from it. I can still close it with Ctrl-C. Basically it just 
serves a few pages and then all managed code stops executing. Has anyone 
else experienced similar problems or have any suggestions?

Regards
--
David Mitchell
Software Engineer
Telogis
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[Nik Derewianka]

if i still don't understand this, please help me to understand it :)
 

I think what you need is what the upcoming Patent Review might provide.  
For now you will probably just have to trust the Ximian monkeys who have 
probably given this a bit more thought than you have and have access to 
a few more legal resources than you have.

Regards,
Nik
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[gabor]

On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 20:35, Miguel de Icaza wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> > does that mean thay you/mono-devel-team doesn't know the answer to my
> > (original) question?
> 
> We have gone through this too many times, to the point that we have
> added this to the FAQ.
> 
> It means you are just very late asking that question, and most people
> are bored to death with the subject who has been answered in the FAQ.

i have read the faq.

i assume you refer the following:
==
Question 131: Could patents be used to completely disable Mono (either
submarine patents filed now, or changes made by Microsoft specifically
to create patent problems)?
=
(the problem (in a very short way) is that the next line in the faq
should be "Answer 131: No.", but it is not)

there you're saying that some part of mono are ximian-implemented (those
are ok), some are ecma, and some are window-specific (problematic).

then, to prove that the ecma-stuff is ok, the faq says:
"
The core of the .NET Framework, and what has been patented by Microsoft
falls under the ECMA/ISO submission. Jim Miller at Microsoft has made a
statement on the patents covering ISO/ECMA, (he is one of the inventors
listed in the patent): here.

Basically a grant is given to anyone who want to implement those
components for free and for any purpose.
"

that's the part which is not good enough imho.

becasue RAND can also mean that's it is allowed to use for a very cheap
price, which would of course mean a stop to mono, but Jim Miller writes:
"
But Microsoft (and our co-sponsors, Intel and Hewlett-Packard) went
further and have agreed that our patents essential to implementing C#
and CLI will be available on a "royalty-free and otherwise RAND" basis
for this purpose.
"

the problem is (for me), that these companies "agreed" that it will be
royalty-free and so on. Jim Miller says it. but is there anywhere a more
formal announcement about this? 
because if i understant it correctly, this mail is the only argument for
that microsoft allows mono to exist on a royalty-free basis.
i have also read in the faq, that "but engineers who work on .NET or the
ECMA groups have been very friendly". but it only means what i wrote,
that the safety of mono seems-to-be-ok.

so i still think that my original question holds:
yes, mono seems to be safe from microsoft. but it is not 100% safe (and
i know that you can be never safe for 100%, but i think you understand
what i mean).

couldn't ximian/suse/novell (because they're "normal" commercial
companies) talk/work with microsoft, and make them make a formal
announcement, or something like that?

i understand it's annoying that everyone only talks about the
patent/copyright when they talk about mono, but if you could just say in
the faq:"no, there can be no problems, see microsoft's announcement at
http://www.microsoft.com/x/y/z.html";.

if i still don't understand this, please help me to understand it :)


thanks,
gabor


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Re: [good] Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents

[ted leslie]

I agree with you 100% but "suits" want that kinda shit, I am just 
relating what i am seeing/hearing with
multi-billion dollar companies I consult for in Canada, they get worried 
about this shit, and
your rational below (I buy it), but the heads of IT's, well they need a 
bit more to feel comfortable.
Also remember, the US DOJ has managed to NOT hand out any justice what 
so ever in anything
to do with MS, the fines are simple some small part of interest on the 
profits they made from the
screw fest the dealt out to  Netscape,Sun, etc,etc.  My point is, use 
Mono, be happy,
and if MS comes in to screw things up, hopefully Mono steers around it, 
just as Linus has said
Linux can steer around SCO (if they won).

-tl

Paul wrote:

Hi,

 

There is no right answer to this until it is tested in court. Much like 
SCO/IBM/Linux issue.
   

There is no SCO-IBM issue other than in Darl's head. Everyone and his
dog agrees there is no validity in it. http://www.groklaw.net for the
latest info.
 

To be a safe user of Mono, (much like a safe user of Linux),
you'd have to get it from a vendor that will endemnify it, and maybe
some day soon, who knows, that could happen.
   

Why? Just because a number of distro companies (and IBM) decide to
indemnify doesn't mean anything. All it's there for is to say to
customers, don't worry, use linux and we'll protect you against any
trumped up charges from SCO.
Mono is also a different case. Mono has nothing to do with MS, but is
based on the EMCA standards for the language. It is using a clean
implementation (AFAIK) of the windows.forms stuff.
MS, like SCO and Linux, has no hold on mono. Use it and be happy.

TTFN

Paul

 

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[Mono-list] Glade# with Pixmap!?

[Moritz Angermann]

Hi All,
So I built up a gui in Glade-2.
And did an
---
Glade.XML gxml = new Glade.XML( null, "gui.glade", "wMain", null );
gxml.Autoconnect( this );
---

basically this works...
but when I have an GtkImage with an Image, I get as result when starting
up:
===
(:1261): GLib-CRITICAL **: file gutils.c: line 574
(g_path_get_dirname): assertion `file_name != NULL' failed
 
(:1261): GLib-CRITICAL **: file gstrfuncs.c: line 232
(g_strconcat): assertion `string1 != NULL' failed
 
(:1261): GdkPixbuf-CRITICAL **: file gdk-pixbuf-io.c: line 729
(gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file): assertion `filename != NULL' failed
 
Unhandled Exception: System.NullReferenceException: A null value was
found where an object instance was required
in (unmanaged) (wrapper managed-to-native)
Glade.XML:glade_xml_new_from_buffer (byte[],int,string,string)
in <0x4> (wrapper managed-to-native)
Glade.XML:glade_xml_new_from_buffer (byte[],int,string,string)
in <0x00105> Glade.XML:.ctor
(System.Reflection.Assembly,string,string,string)
in <0x00047> .gui:.ctor ()
in <0x00023> .MainClass:Main (string[])
===

As it, if I understand this correct, sais: the file( here I guess the
pixmap is ment ) is not found.

I also tried to track some example app. But wasn't successful...
does anyone have an example on how to do this?

kindest regards,
 -mo
-- 
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Home+49 (0) 4322 75 12 66

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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents

[Paul]

Hi,

> There is no right answer to this until it is tested in court. Much like 
> SCO/IBM/Linux issue.

There is no SCO-IBM issue other than in Darl's head. Everyone and his
dog agrees there is no validity in it. http://www.groklaw.net for the
latest info.

> To be a safe user of Mono, (much like a safe user of Linux),
> you'd have to get it from a vendor that will endemnify it, and maybe
> some day soon, who knows, that could happen.

Why? Just because a number of distro companies (and IBM) decide to
indemnify doesn't mean anything. All it's there for is to say to
customers, don't worry, use linux and we'll protect you against any
trumped up charges from SCO.

Mono is also a different case. Mono has nothing to do with MS, but is
based on the EMCA standards for the language. It is using a clean
implementation (AFAIK) of the windows.forms stuff.

MS, like SCO and Linux, has no hold on mono. Use it and be happy.

TTFN

Paul

-- 
"Logic, my dear Zoe, is merely the ability to be wrong with authority"
Dr Who


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[Mono-list] Mono and Patents

[ted leslie]

There is no right answer to this until it is tested in court. Much like 
SCO/IBM/Linux issue.
I am getting into mono now because I know that worst case scenerio (just 
like with SCO on Linux),
if MS squashed Mono, it would be redeveloped, probably quickly, i.e. 
within months,
and then MS would face a competitive product, which ultimate is better 
(and free),
that will dry up the market they will have for their .Net products.
Thats the nice thing about GPL and free software with many supporters,
(mix that with countries that realize MS is an illegal monopoly),
is that its software can never die, or be pushed out of existence by any
flunky US court cases (thats assuming there is negative results on GPL 
based cases).

To be a safe user of Mono, (much like a safe user of Linux),
you'd have to get it from a vendor that will endemnify it, and maybe
some day soon, who knows, that could happen.
Dell, IBM, HP, etc are already endemnifying against actions on Linux,
to protect their end users.
I wonder, is Mono part of a Redhat that HP (for example) endemnies against?
or do they preclude this?
-tl
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[Miguel de Icaza]

Hello,

> does that mean thay you/mono-devel-team doesn't know the answer to my
> (original) question?

We have gone through this too many times, to the point that we have
added this to the FAQ.

It means you are just very late asking that question, and most people
are bored to death with the subject who has been answered in the FAQ.
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[Miguel de Icaza]

Hello,

> example:
> 
> python.
> 
> if i check the webpage, i know they are gpl-compatible, have a quite
> open development model and so on. i simply can be sure that if i use it,
> there will be no license problems.
> 
> now:
> 
> can you show me a webpage or link or whatever where Microsoft (as the
> company, not just one of their developers) declares, than all CLI and
> dot-net stuff(runtime,core-classes and xml to be specific) is free to
> implement for anyone?

You are confused.

Patents are different than copyrights.  

The GPL license is a copyright license, but it can not grant rights of
things it does not own.   

So if you infringe a patent, lets say there is an imaginary "Doofy Co"
that has a patent on "XML-based filesystem", it does not matter if you
use .NET, Java, Python, GCC or GNU Emacs.  You will still violate the
patent.

So your question needs to be restated with the above in mind. Copyright
infringement is different than patent infringement and different from
trademark infringement.  Now, the major problem is that we have a lot
of people that do not understand the difference between those ones
arguing on the lists. 

Until this point, very few people know what they are talking about in
this matter, and it is hard to have a discussion when the most basic
principles are just miss-understood.

Miguel.
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[gabor]

On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 20:00, Adam Williams wrote:
> > > 
> > hmmm
> > i understand that mono seems to be safe because for now it seems that
> > mono helps microsoft to generate money, and also some
> > microsoft-developer/mono-inventor/programmer/whatever said that RAND in
> > this case means free (as in everything, be it beer or speech or
> > whatever). am i correct?
> 
> 
> Maybe a mono-legal-list@ should be create for this stuff.  it is
> getting to be a very old, battered, & bruised topic.

does that mean thay you/mono-devel-team doesn't know the answer to my
(original) question?

gabor

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[Mono-list] Mono Articles

[ben]

Thanks for the comments, will hold off before publishing anything.

I've just been looking at the MonkeyGuide, and it seems to be trying to do 2
things.  Firstly, it introduces the platform, installation, IDE's etc. 
Secondly, it's a developers guide explaining specific technologies such as
remoting and streams.  

Both are useful, but I think that the first part should be seperated out, as
this is what a newbie or curious Windows developer would use to get started. 
Something similar to [1].

With regards to the second part, I'd personally like to see it seperated out
into distinct articles.  If you search for Remoting at MSDN, you get pages such
as [2] that aren't part of any 'manual'.  This could form a new 'technology
guide' section in MonoDoc, which could be linked to from the class libraries in
relevant places.  I think that this would also make it easier for developers in
specific areas (security, optimisation) to write docs without having to change,
care about, or fit in with the manual.

So, my proposed article is more similar to the first part of the MonkeyGuide. 
There's lots of good content in there, and if it's a potential replacement, then
would it be possible to steal the good parts?

Just my 2p.. (Or is that 2c for you guys?!)

Ben

[1]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cptutorials/html/cptutorials_start.asp

[2]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframework/using/understanding/networking/remoting/default.aspx
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[Adam Williams]

> > 
> hmmm
> i understand that mono seems to be safe because for now it seems that
> mono helps microsoft to generate money, and also some
> microsoft-developer/mono-inventor/programmer/whatever said that RAND in
> this case means free (as in everything, be it beer or speech or
> whatever). am i correct?


Maybe a mono-legal-list@ should be create for this stuff.  it is
getting to be a very old, battered, & bruised topic.

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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[Todd Berman]

I am not a lawyer, neither am i familiar with these or any patent
issues, and I don't care at all.

However, The real question you should be asking yourself seems to be:

"Why am I asking this here, and not on the wine mailing list"

Unlike wine, mono implements something that is being standardized by the
ECMA. Wine is implementing a completely closed, proprietary api
developed by microsoft.

It seems to me, if microsoft was going to enforce patent issues on any
open source project, wine would be a far better candidate than mono.
Since wine seems to still be under heavy active development, and without
any patent issues, the big issue over mono seems kinda moot, and a lot
like FUD.

--Todd

On Sun, 2004-14-03 at 19:03 +0100, gabor wrote:

> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 21:25, Andy Satori wrote:
> > 
> 
> hmmm
> 
> 
> i understand that mono seems to be safe because for now it seems that
> mono helps microsoft to generate money, and also some
> microsoft-developer/mono-inventor/programmer/whatever said that RAND in
> this case means free (as in everything, be it beer or speech or
> whatever). am i correct?
> 
> but, i would like to have/hear/see some more solid/stable/safe stuff.
> 
> example:
> 
> python.
> 
> if i check the webpage, i know they are gpl-compatible, have a quite
> open development model and so on. i simply can be sure that if i use it,
> there will be no license problems.
> 
> now:
> 
> can you show me a webpage or link or whatever where Microsoft (as the
> company, not just one of their developers) declares, than all CLI and
> dot-net stuff(runtime,core-classes and xml to be specific) is free to
> implement for anyone?
> 
> to summarize:
> tell me why it is IMPOSSIBLE for microsoft to hurt/stop mono
> development. i already heard why it is not probable.
> 
> thanks,
> gabor
> 
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....

[gabor]

On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 21:25, Andy Satori wrote:
> 

hmmm


i understand that mono seems to be safe because for now it seems that
mono helps microsoft to generate money, and also some
microsoft-developer/mono-inventor/programmer/whatever said that RAND in
this case means free (as in everything, be it beer or speech or
whatever). am i correct?

but, i would like to have/hear/see some more solid/stable/safe stuff.

example:

python.

if i check the webpage, i know they are gpl-compatible, have a quite
open development model and so on. i simply can be sure that if i use it,
there will be no license problems.

now:

can you show me a webpage or link or whatever where Microsoft (as the
company, not just one of their developers) declares, than all CLI and
dot-net stuff(runtime,core-classes and xml to be specific) is free to
implement for anyone?

to summarize:
tell me why it is IMPOSSIBLE for microsoft to hurt/stop mono
development. i already heard why it is not probable.

thanks,
gabor

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Re: [Mono-list] Bug in HttpWebRequest

[Miguel de Icaza]

Hello,

> I notice that it is RESOLVED FIXED, and there is a comment that says "fixed
> in CVS". My question is has this fix been rolled into 0.30.2, or am I going
> to have to build my runtime from source using the latest CVS snapshot?

CVS means the current "live" repository, and hsa not been released yet
to the public.  You have to either use a daily snapshot, or wait for
0.31

Miguel
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono Articles

[Miguel de Icaza]

Hello!

> I thought about contributing some Mono articles to some Windows based .NET 
> sites such as CodeProject, CodeGuru and some of the C# websites out there.  I 
> think it would be cool if people were tempted to download Mono, try to build 
> their applications, and either have lots of success, or submit lots of bug 
> reports :)  
> 
> I have quite a lot of text already written in a report I'm working on, but I 
> wondered if anyone wanted to help, offer ideas, or point me towards stuff that 
> they have already created that could be dropped in, or edited.  I have thought 
> up the following structure:

This is a wonderful outline for a replacement for the Monkeyguide.

If you write this article, I wonder if we could also get our hands after
publishing to include it as part of our documentation?  I know that Erik
wanted to work on something along these lines.

Your table of contents is very interesting from that perspective, and I
think very very valuable.

The audience you have selected is not the same as the Slashdot crowd who
as Jon and Ben point out have resorted to bring up legal issues every
time and they tend to dominate the discussion.

For instance, I presented Mono to a Microsoft crowd recently, and the
kind of questions and topics they are interested in are very different
than what you see on the Linux/open source sites, where the hate for
Microsoft grows large, and any tool they have at their disposal is used
(like the recent `RelaxNG is patented because I saw XML mentioned on the
patent' nonsense).

Miguel.
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Re: [Mono-list] Mono Articles

[Ben Maurer]

Hey Ben,

On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 10:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I thought about contributing some Mono articles to some Windows based .NET 
> sites such as CodeProject, CodeGuru and some of the C# websites out there.  I 
> think it would be cool if people were tempted to download Mono, try to build 
> their applications, and either have lots of success, or submit lots of bug 
> reports :)  
> 
> I have quite a lot of text already written in a report I'm working on, but I 
> wondered if anyone wanted to help, offer ideas, or point me towards stuff that 
> they have already created that could be dropped in, or edited.  I have thought 
> up the following structure:

Like Jon, I say `dont publish now' mostly due to the patent issue (As he
said, it is nearly at the point where reading Mono related articles is
just annoying).

However, I *would* encourge you to start writing; you are looking to
take on a pretty big task. If you start writing now, you have more time
to get reviews/comments from hackers and more importantly, the Novell
team.

Of course, you have to be prepared to keep it up to date, so that by 1.0
you can publish. However, I am sure you are aware of that.

Good luck, you seem to have alot of great ideas!

-- Ben

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[Mono-list] Re: [Mono-devel-list] Mono Articles

[Jonathan Pryor]

I would suggest waiting, for two reasons:

1.  Mono 1.0 will be released "soon" (Q2 this year, IIC).  It would be a
good idea to release an article ~1 month before expected release to
whet developers appetites.  This would require having a final
release schedule, though, which might be a little hard to come by.

2.  More importantly, Novell/Ximian will be doing a formal patent review
of Mono, and Mono will be split up into two "stacks", an ECMA-based
stack and a non-ECMA stack (including System.Windows.Forms, ASP.NET,
etc.).  This splitting may change some APIs currently in use; for
example, Gtk# is removing the use of System.Drawing.Size from it's
public API.

See: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4557

Given that things are likely to be in flux until 1.0 is released, and
(especially) that patent issues are the *first* things people ask about
whenever Mono comes up (see *every* article on Mono on slashdot.org or
osnews.com for the last 3 years), it might be a good idea to wait on
broad-scale Mono evangelizing until the Patent Review is finished.

I for one am getting sick of people asking about Patents all the time,
so the sooner we can lay this issue to rest, the better.  It's nearly at
the point that I don't read Mono-related articles anymore, as I *know*
the Patent Question will come up, and it will dominate the ENTIRE REST
OF THE DISCUSSION.  

 - Jon

On Sun, 2004-03-14 at 10:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I thought about contributing some Mono articles to some Windows based .NET 
> sites such as CodeProject, CodeGuru and some of the C# websites out there.  I 
> think it would be cool if people were tempted to download Mono, try to build 
> their applications, and either have lots of success, or submit lots of bug 
> reports :)  
> 
> I have quite a lot of text already written in a report I'm working on, but I 
> wondered if anyone wanted to help, offer ideas, or point me towards stuff that 
> they have already created that could be dropped in, or edited.  I have thought 
> up the following structure:
> 
> Part 1: Introduction to Mono
>  - Introduction
>  - Mono Community & Resources
>  - Patents
>  - Windows Installation
>  - Usage 
>- Windows Forms Apps
>- GTK Sharp Apps
>  - FAQ
>  
> Part 2: Mono source code
>  - Introduction
>  - Accessing 
>  - Compilation
>  - Filing Bugs
>  - Contributing
> 
> Part 3: Building graphical applications in Mono
>  - Introduction
>  - Running Windows Forms on Linux
>  - GTK-Sharp
>- Hello World
>- Glade
> 
> Part 4: Advanced
>  - Introduction
>  - Debugging
>  - Profiler
>  - Security
> 
> Part 5: The future
>  - Introduction
>  - Longhorn/Avalon
>  - MonoDevelop
> 
> Or, some people may prefer to wait until 1.0 before creating this kind of 
> publicity?
> 
> Thanks
> Ben 
> 
> 
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[Mono-list] install mono-0.30.2 on win98 error

[kaven1]

I use cygwin to compile mono-0.30.2.
The way is from 
http://dotnetjunkies.com/WebLog/kaushik/archive/2004/02/29/8124.aspx
http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/mono-list/2002-April/005042.html

when I run mono, the system get an error "can't find PSAPI.dll".
Why does mono still need PSAPI.dll?



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[Mono-list] Mono Articles

[ben]

I thought about contributing some Mono articles to some Windows based .NET 
sites such as CodeProject, CodeGuru and some of the C# websites out there.  I 
think it would be cool if people were tempted to download Mono, try to build 
their applications, and either have lots of success, or submit lots of bug 
reports :)  

I have quite a lot of text already written in a report I'm working on, but I 
wondered if anyone wanted to help, offer ideas, or point me towards stuff that 
they have already created that could be dropped in, or edited.  I have thought 
up the following structure:

Part 1: Introduction to Mono
 - Introduction
 - Mono Community & Resources
 - Patents
 - Windows Installation
 - Usage 
   - Windows Forms Apps
   - GTK Sharp Apps
 - FAQ
 
Part 2: Mono source code
 - Introduction
 - Accessing 
 - Compilation
 - Filing Bugs
 - Contributing

Part 3: Building graphical applications in Mono
 - Introduction
 - Running Windows Forms on Linux
 - GTK-Sharp
   - Hello World
   - Glade

Part 4: Advanced
 - Introduction
 - Debugging
 - Profiler
 - Security

Part 5: The future
 - Introduction
 - Longhorn/Avalon
 - MonoDevelop

Or, some people may prefer to wait until 1.0 before creating this kind of 
publicity?

Thanks
Ben 


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[Mono-list] test installation

[martin pfeffer]

hi
is there a way to test if mono correctly installed on suse 9.0
thx
martin
-- 
udldidudldiduz

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Re: [Mono-list] formatter.Serialize

[David Sheldon]

On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 11:10:36PM -0500, Warren Matthews wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I'm stuck trying to serialize a hash table. I found an example at
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpref/ 
> html/ 
> frlrfsystemruntimeserializationformatterssoapsoapformatterclassserialize 
> topic.asp

As part of having a look at this, I looked at the serialised form of
this hashtable in both mono and MS.NET. They are quite significantly
different. Mono cannot deserialise the MS version, and MS cannot
deserialise the Mono version. 

Is this something that is important to fix at the moment? If so, where
should I go looking for the code that does this?

I attach the MS and Mono versions of the serialised hashtable.

David

-- 
"OK. Enter system password, out of ttys, can't fork process, Panic Double
Panic, can't open socket, bad magic number, NO ROUTE TO HOST, hme is down,
stale file handle, /var is full, and it's January 1970."
- sing, sing, halt


DataFile.soap-MS.gz
Description: Binary data


DataFile.soap-Mono.gz
Description: Binary data

Re: [Mono-list] formatter.Serialize

[David Sheldon]

On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 11:10:36PM -0500, Warren Matthews wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I'm stuck trying to serialize a hash table. I found an example at
> [snip] 
> But I get
> $ mono Test.exe
> 
> Unhandled Exception: System.ArgumentException: Cannot use prefix with  
> an empty namespace.

This is fixed in latest CVS:

2004-02-19  Jean-Marc Andre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  * SoapWriter.cs, SoapCommon.cs:
Bug fixed: XmlTextWriter.WriteAttributeString() was used
with its "namespace" parameter set to null whereas it shouldn't.

David

-- 
So remember when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on Earth. (Monty Python)
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