Re: [Monotone-devel] Time for a release

[Thomas Keller]

Am 05.06.2010 23:24, schrieb Thomas Keller:
> Am 05.06.10 18:26, schrieb Zack Weinberg:
>> On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Thomas Keller  wrote:
 I assume you meant "/dev/nul instead of /dev/null" there?
>>>
>>> No, I meant /dev/nul - try GNU patch and tamper the patch file to
>>> "+++ /dev/nul" (which is of course wrong) - then you'll see that empty
>>> files are kept and are only removed explicitely with -E. This is what I
>>> mean - we'd tamper the test if we add -E, because then we just test GNU
>>> patch to correctly interpret the -E option, but not to automatically
>>> remove the file if it is empty _and_ has the target /dev/null.
>>
>> Oh, I see what you mean.  Well, is the exact behavior of the system
>> 'patch' utility the focus of the test?  I'm kinda inclined to doubt
>> it, but I have lost the message that says which test we're talking
>> about here...
> 
> The test is diff_patch_drop and IMHO it exactly tests the proper removal
> of the files at the end. If not we could / should probably just remove
> the last two checks.

I have changed the test that it now executes patch with -E on BSD's and
that it only checks for a removed directory on non-BSD's (apparently GNU
patch is much more aggressive).

FreeBSD and openBSD now pass this test - the openBSD bot is still broken
with three other tests though.

Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

[Stephen Leake]

Thomas Keller  writes:

> Am 10.06.2010 13:52, schrieb Stephen Leake:
>> Thomas Keller  writes:
>> 
>>> Am 10.06.2010 09:49, schrieb Stephen Leake:
 This is a reasonable approach, but personally I would prefer an error (I
 always prefer errors over warnings; it's just too easy to miss
 warnings).
>>>
>>> See my earlier mail - how do we handle old workspaces with then invalid
>>> branch names? I don't like the idea of bailing out with an error for
>>> every workspace command just because the used branch option is
>>> wrong...
>> 
>> Yes; the warning or error should only occur on the creation of a new
>> branch.
>
> The "creation" is probably too late. If the error has a validation
> nature, it has to happen very early, i.e. before anything important took
> place. 

I have not looked at this in detail, but I'm assuming we can check very
early whether the operation will create a new branch, and do the check. 

For example, in 'mtn commit --branch foo', we can check right at the
beginning whether foo already exists as a branch, and if not, error out,
before doing anything else.

> See, I just don't want to issue a lot of spaghetti code for this thing

Right.

> and maybe we're doing a nice bikeshed discussion here anyways because
> 99% of the monotone users would not be affected by either, the warning
> or the error.

Right.

 This is another case where it would be best to allow the user to set the
 default they want, but be able to override that default easily.

 That requires overridable options; supporting '--foo ... --no-foo'.

 Overridable options has come up a few times before; maybe we should make
 that a required feature for 1.0? I have not looked into how hard that
 would be.
>>>
>>> See also my earlier mail - where do we want to draw the line? 
>> 
>> I'm suggesting we draw the line to include overridable options. But we'd
>> have to be ok with saying "this is too hard" after seriously looking at
>> it.
>
> Seriously, is this really so important? 

I'm asking if you (and others) think it is important. I'll take this as
"no, we should not require this feature for 1.0". 

> there are many, many other feature requests open for a longer time.

Perhaps it would be good to post a list here, and have a semi-formal
vote on whether they should be required for 1.0

> Many of them should be considered more important than options handling
> and even than the whole URI discussion, so where do we draw the line
> if they speak up as well?

We draw the line by reaching consensus after informed discussion.

> ...and we'd effectively have the old status quo - don't go for 1.0 at
> all, because you never have all 1.0 features ready :)

We can make a formal statement now about what is actually required for
1.0. 

I'm happy saying "no new features are required for 1.0; go for it". But
we should at least think about it a little more.

-- 
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[Monotone-devel] Date formatting

[Thomas Keller]

Hi!

The openBSD build bot fails a couple of tests - some of them are related
to the fact that the openBSD strptime does not implement the GNU
extension "%F" [0].

I can't remember why %F was chosen at all, and not %x, but if we want to
stick with %F, we should probably expand that to %Y-%m-%d to make it
compatible, right?

Thomas.

[0] http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=strptime

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[Monotone-devel] Quick poll

[Thomas Keller]

Hi everyone!

I'm listening to you and the release concerns, which (again) popped up
recently. And since I don't want to behave like a self-opinionated
bastard which just pushes things to the very end while people are
uncomfortable with the situation, here is the new plan:


1) I will release 0.48 this weekend (probably Sunday) when the remaining
openBSD issues have been sorted out. The translation team therefor has a
one or two more days to improve the i18n side, but its not that crucial
anymore to bring them up to 100% excellence since we won't hit 0.99 next.

2) After 0.48 is out, the next dev version will be 0.99dev.

3) Tim and Stephe proposed to set up a list of things we really want to
get done and which are also doable in a reasonable time frame before
0.99 / 1.0 hits the streets. I'd like to target this fall for 0.99 and
we should really try to get things done until then.

4) I'll tweak the old RoadMap [0] wiki page and bring it up-to-date.
People are invited to add more things which they want to see in 1.0 and
we're collaboratively voting on them and moving them into the
appropriate position afterwards. To avoid new features added constantly
afterwards, feature proposals for 1.0 are only open until Sunday.


Is everybody ok with that?

Thomas.


PS: Wish me luck tomorrow - I'll be on the LinuxTag in Berlin and try to
persuade a hosting company (Thomas Krenn AG) to sponsor [1] us some
hardware :)


[0] http://monotone.ca/wiki/RoadMap/
[1]
http://www.thomas-krenn.com/de/unternehmen/news/action.view/entity.detail/detail_key.280.html
(in German)

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Quick poll

[Stephen Leake]

Thomas Keller  writes:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm listening to you and the release concerns, which (again) popped up
> recently. And since I don't want to behave like a self-opinionated
> bastard which just pushes things to the very end while people are
> uncomfortable with the situation, here is the new plan:
>
>
> 1) I will release 0.48 this weekend (probably Sunday) when the remaining
> openBSD issues have been sorted out. The translation team therefor has a
> one or two more days to improve the i18n side, but its not that crucial
> anymore to bring them up to 100% excellence since we won't hit 0.99 next.
>
> 2) After 0.48 is out, the next dev version will be 0.99dev.
>
> 3) Tim and Stephe proposed to set up a list of things we really want to
> get done and which are also doable in a reasonable time frame before
> 0.99 / 1.0 hits the streets. I'd like to target this fall for 0.99 and
> we should really try to get things done until then.
>
> 4) I'll tweak the old RoadMap [0] wiki page and bring it up-to-date.
> People are invited to add more things which they want to see in 1.0 and
> we're collaboratively voting on them and moving them into the
> appropriate position afterwards. To avoid new features added constantly
> afterwards, feature proposals for 1.0 are only open until Sunday.
>
>
> Is everybody ok with that?

Excellent plan.

We might as well start the 2.0 list now; anything that doesn't make 1.0
is a candidate for 2.0.

I just added 'update conflict handling' and 'overwritable, negatable
options'.

> PS: Wish me luck tomorrow - I'll be on the LinuxTag in Berlin and try to
> persuade a hosting company (Thomas Krenn AG) to sponsor [1] us some
> hardware :)

Go for it!

-- 
-- Stephe

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Quick poll

[Thomas Keller]

Am 11.06.2010 12:56, schrieb Stephen Leake:
> Thomas Keller  writes:
>> [...] Is everybody ok with that?
> 
> Excellent plan.

Cool!

> We might as well start the 2.0 list now; anything that doesn't make 1.0
> is a candidate for 2.0.
> 
> I just added 'update conflict handling' and 'overwritable, negatable
> options'.

I was just in the process and reworked the complete page to a more dense
layout. Could I ask you and link the explanations for either idea to a
wiki page or a mailing list post? And please only set branch names which
actually already exists, otherwise people might get confused.

For now I've added the options task for 1.0 and the update conflict
handling in untargeted - we might as well include the latter in 1.1, 1.2
or so if its ready and since the work hasn't even be started yet, I
refuse to put it for a particular milestone.

The things for 1.0 / 2.0 which haven't been started are just already
there because they're blockers, i.e. we absolutely want them to pop up
in this particular release... if there are more such items, we might
move them up from "Not targeted" or add them as new, but I advise
everyone here to be very, very conservative, especially if you don't
plan to do the particular work yourself :)

>> PS: Wish me luck tomorrow - I'll be on the LinuxTag in Berlin and try to
>> persuade a hosting company (Thomas Krenn AG) to sponsor [1] us some
>> hardware :)
> 
> Go for it!

Thanks,
Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Quick poll

[Richard Levitte]

In message <4c1209d2.6070...@thomaskeller.biz> on Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:02:58 
+0200, Thomas Keller  said:

me> 1) I will release 0.48 this weekend (probably Sunday) when the remaining
me> openBSD issues have been sorted out. The translation team therefor has a
me> one or two more days to improve the i18n side, but its not that crucial
me> anymore to bring them up to 100% excellence since we won't hit 0.99 next.

Following many years of experience from the FSF folks, I'd suggest
0.90.

Cheers,
Richard

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"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

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[Monotone-devel] [bug #30110] mtn status fails by default with multiple keys

[Timothy Brownawell]

Update of bug #30110 (project monotone):

  Status:None => Fixed  
 Open/Closed:Open => Closed 

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Follow-up Comment #1:

Fixed in e831aa7c1baa0c545c5d1917364ff299cd79e174

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