[Monotone-devel] [bug #30345] Key management over automate

[Stephen Leake]

Update of bug #30345 (project monotone):

  Status:None => Fixed  
 Open/Closed:Open => Closed 

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Follow-up Comment #4:

added 'automate put_public_key', 'automate get_public_key', 'automate
drop_public_key'

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Re: [Monotone-devel] No sponsored hardware :(

[Philipp Gröschler]

On 23.08.2010 19:35, Tero Koskinen wrote:

If we end up buying a VPS for the project how we handle all
the maintenance things? Do we need to care about the bus factor
of the maintainer(s)? (What happens if you get hit by a bus,
spend ten years in a coma, and we need to renew the VPS
subscription?)


The core developers should share all accounting information, maybe 
through a private section in the Wiki or by other means (snail mail is 
also a lot quicker than it used to be 30 years ago. I'm drifting here).


For the payment there could be some online bank account which has all 
core developers registered as holders. There are lots of offers which 
don't come with an additional fee.


Also the VPS hoster should know that there are several people in charge. 
We once had problems when we shared our dedicated server among a few 
people, the server support refused to speak to anybody except to the one 
who originally sealed the deal, which is not necessarily the person with 
the most available spare time, availability, whatever ;)


(Side note: I wouldn't go as far as establishing some own NPO, that 
usually implies more problems than it solves)



And how the collection of money happens? Wire transfers
inside Europe are free (thanks to SEPA), but people outside
Europe might prefer other ways.


The Flattr-Project seems to work good for a few blogs and websites I 
regularly visit, and Paypal is planning a micropayment system, too. The 
other story is if one likes using those services, but it could be a 
start for people from outside of europe.


Also there could be some nice "Please donate" buttons on the starting 
page. (Of course with their image files mirrored locally, for terms of 
privacy protection. At least Flattr explicitly allows that).


On 23.08.2010 14:54, Thomas Keller wrote:
> If not, who is willing to throw in some money to buy a server?

Count on me there :)

> Opinions and / or alternative offerings?

I was shortly thinking about offering some place on my own VPS, which is 
quite bored most of the day. But it has very limited hardware compared 
to the offer on Netcup, also I don't have unlimited traffic.


Are there some statistics about average memory usage (excluding Apache 
and MySQL, which are running either way) and monthly traffic? What about 
peak usage around the release dates?


So far ...

Philipp

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Re: [Monotone-devel] No sponsored hardware :(

[Thomas Keller]

Am 23.08.10 19:35, schrieb Tero Koskinen:
> Hello,
> 
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:54:20 +0200 Thomas Keller wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I was just notified that we didn't made it into the top 5 projects and
>> unfortunately got no hardware price from Thomas Krenn:
>>
>> Is anyone here on the list which could offer us a Xen instance on his
>> physical server?
>>
>> If not, who is willing to throw in some money to buy a server?
> 
> I can donate some modest sum. 

Thank you!

> Although, does the Monotone project
> have some money already?
> 
> I remember njs speaking about it a few years ago:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/monotone-devel@nongnu.org/msg05877.html

Unfortunately not, as far as I remember this was used to sponsor people
getting to the last big summit in 2007. We asked for this money already
in the summit the year after, and it was already spent.

>> Opinions and / or alternative offerings?
> 
> There is always Linode, but I don't know does it have as good
> performance/money ratio as Netcup.

Unfortunately not, their cheapest packages is almost 1,5x the price with
only 512MB RAM:

> If we end up buying a VPS for the project how we handle all
> the maintenance things? Do we need to care about the bus factor
> of the maintainer(s)? (What happens if you get hit by a bus,
> spend ten years in a coma, and we need to renew the VPS
> subscription?)

The administrative side of things is one of the reasons why we want to
do that at all, i.e. a small group of people gets root access to the
server. Currently this group consists of Thomas Moschny, Richard Levitte
and me. We could of course not only share root access amongst these
people, but also billing / customer login data.

> And how the collection of money happens? Wire transfers
> inside Europe are free (thanks to SEPA), but people outside
> Europe might prefer other ways.

The easiest, probably not the cheapest, is PayPal, but I think if people
are willing to spend money at all, we should surely be able to find a
proper way to collect it.

Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] No sponsored hardware :(

[Tero Koskinen]

Hello,

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:54:20 +0200 Thomas Keller wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I was just notified that we didn't made it into the top 5 projects and
> unfortunately got no hardware price from Thomas Krenn:
> 
> Is anyone here on the list which could offer us a Xen instance on his
> physical server?
> 
> If not, who is willing to throw in some money to buy a server?

I can donate some modest sum. Although, does the Monotone project
have some money already?

I remember njs speaking about it a few years ago:
http://www.mail-archive.com/monotone-devel@nongnu.org/msg05877.html

> Opinions and / or alternative offerings?

There is always Linode, but I don't know does it have as good
performance/money ratio as Netcup.

If we end up buying a VPS for the project how we handle all
the maintenance things? Do we need to care about the bus factor
of the maintainer(s)? (What happens if you get hit by a bus,
spend ten years in a coma, and we need to renew the VPS
subscription?)

And how the collection of money happens? Wire transfers
inside Europe are free (thanks to SEPA), but people outside
Europe might prefer other ways.

> Thanks,
> Thomas.

-- 
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[Monotone-devel] No sponsored hardware :(

[Thomas Keller]

Hi!

I was just notified that we didn't made it into the top 5 projects and
unfortunately got no hardware price from Thomas Krenn:



This means that we should approach plan B, namely heading to get some
cheap or sponsored virtual server as permanent and together
administerable machine for monotone.

Is anyone here on the list which could offer us a Xen instance on his
physical server?

If not, who is willing to throw in some money to buy a server? I have
good experiences with netcup (www.netcup.de) and there second smallest
V-Server offering looks like a good deal:



i.e. 3GHz CPU, 1GB RAM (boostable to 2GB), 30GB HDD, 1 IP inclusive. If
we want to change to another domain, we, that means, Graydon, could also
save the annual domain fee. For the above offer, we'd need 9 EUR/month
or 96 EUR/year. We could probably save a little more if we find an offer
with less guaranteed RAM (f.e. 768MB, boost up to 1500GB), but we
shouldn't go under 768 guaranteed, as the things which will be hosted
there are surely RAM-hungry.

Opinions and / or alternative offerings?

Thanks,
Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Please review nvm.man-page

[Thomas Keller]

Am 23.08.2010 13:37, schrieb Stephen Leake:
> Thomas Moschny  writes:
> 
>> Stephen Leake :
>>> This almost works (from bash under Emacs), but it loses all the
>>> headers:
>>>
>>> function get_man_page_formatter_command()
>>>local term_width = guess_terminal_width() - 2
>>>local path = "c:/bin"
>>>-- On MinGW, 'popen' runs 'cmd.exe' with the inherited path; run
>>> Cygwin bash from there return string.format("bash -c nroff -man
>>> -rLL=%dn | less -R", term_width) end
>>
>> Problem is that you need to pass exactly one argument to the -c option,
>> so quoting is to be used:
>>
>> return string.format(
>>   "bash -c 'nroff -man -rLL=%dn' | less -R", term_width)
>>
>> works, at least under Linux. Otherwise, the -man and -r options are
>> consumed by bash, not nroff.
> 
> Yes, that works; same result as running 'man' under Emacs.
> 
> Should we put a note about this in the manual, or an example monotonerc
> in contrib?

Better hack the hook directly. You can use the return value of
get_ostype() for Unix/Windows distinction. And we might want to try out
if a generic "sh -c ''" works on all platforms without further
hacking...

Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Please review nvm.man-page

[Stephen Leake]

Thomas Moschny  writes:

> Stephen Leake :
>> This almost works (from bash under Emacs), but it loses all the
>> headers:
>> 
>> function get_man_page_formatter_command()
>>local term_width = guess_terminal_width() - 2
>>local path = "c:/bin"
>>-- On MinGW, 'popen' runs 'cmd.exe' with the inherited path; run
>> Cygwin bash from there return string.format("bash -c nroff -man
>> -rLL=%dn | less -R", term_width) end
>
> Problem is that you need to pass exactly one argument to the -c option,
> so quoting is to be used:
>
> return string.format(
>   "bash -c 'nroff -man -rLL=%dn' | less -R", term_width)
>
> works, at least under Linux. Otherwise, the -man and -r options are
> consumed by bash, not nroff.

Yes, that works; same result as running 'man' under Emacs.

Should we put a note about this in the manual, or an example monotonerc
in contrib?

> But then, me wonders where 'path' is used?

Sorry, that was left over from an earlier experiment; it should be
deleted.

-- 
-- Stephe

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Re: [Monotone-devel] help text indentation in nvm

[Thomas Keller]

Am 23.08.2010 11:15, schrieb Thomas Keller:
> Am 23.08.2010 10:12, schrieb Lapo Luchini:
>> It seems that somewhere between 0.48 and trunk we lost two spaces of
>> indentation of "mtn help" text, but it's still there after linewrap.
> 
> The revision which introduced this problem is d583046e - I'm working on
> a fix.
> 
> Thank you very much for the pointer!

The issue has been fixed in d3d8da7e2d8d17fb2b2c1264720993933b3f6343
(will be pushed shortly).

Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Please review nvm.man-page

[Thomas Moschny]

Stephen Leake :
> This almost works (from bash under Emacs), but it loses all the
> headers:
> 
> function get_man_page_formatter_command()
>local term_width = guess_terminal_width() - 2
>local path = "c:/bin"
>-- On MinGW, 'popen' runs 'cmd.exe' with the inherited path; run
> Cygwin bash from there return string.format("bash -c nroff -man
> -rLL=%dn | less -R", term_width) end

Problem is that you need to pass exactly one argument to the -c option,
so quoting is to be used:

return string.format(
  "bash -c 'nroff -man -rLL=%dn' | less -R", term_width)

works, at least under Linux. Otherwise, the -man and -r options are
consumed by bash, not nroff.

But then, me wonders where 'path' is used?

- Thomas

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Re: [Monotone-devel] key management

[Stephen Leake]

Thomas Keller  writes:

> Other than that it looks ready for merge to me - any other opinions?
> Tim? Derek?

No comments, so merged to main.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Please review nvm.man-page

[Stephen Leake]

Thomas Keller  writes:

> Am 21.08.10 15:20, schrieb Stephen Leake:

>> Trying that shed some light on the 'popen' problem; the error message
>> about 'can't find nroff' is the one from the DOS shell (cmd.exe), not
>> the one from MinGW sh. So 'popen' is running 'cmd.exe', rather than
>> 'sh', contrary to the IEEE standard. Which explains why '|' doesn't work
>> in MinGW 'mtn man'.
>
> Again, I know almost nothing about win32 in this regard, but I know that
> there is some kind of pipe support in cmd.exe, so I guess its just
> missing mingw's path to actually find nroff and friends. Maybe some `set
> PATH=%PATH%;c:\path\to\detected\mingw` before the actual command call
> helps then? It would be easier if mingw would automatically add itself
> to the path though or have another environment variable we could just
> re-use...

I did some more experimenting. PATH is inherited properly, but 'popen'
is running cmd.exe. So to get | to work, we need to invoke bash
explicitly.

This almost works (from bash under Emacs), but it loses all the headers:

function get_man_page_formatter_command()
   local term_width = guess_terminal_width() - 2
   local path = "c:/bin"
   -- On MinGW, 'popen' runs 'cmd.exe' with the inherited path; run Cygwin bash 
from there
   return string.format("bash -c nroff -man -rLL=%dn | less -R", term_width)
end

$ ./mtn man --formatted
monotone  - a distributed version control system mtn 
[options...]
command [arguments...]  monotone is a highly reliable, very  
cus-
tomizable distributed version control system that provides light-
weight branches, history-sensitive merging and a  flexible  trust
setup. monotone has an easy-to-learn command set and comes with a
rich interface for scripting purposes and thorough documentation.

...

Running the same command in a DOS shell gives the same output. I messed
around with varios nroff options, but could not improve things.

I suggest we keep the ability to run 'popen' in the MinGW build of mtn;
someone may be inspired to write a shell script that actually works, or
MinGW may get an nroff port.

I added a note to monotone.texi explaining about 'cmd.exe', in the
get_man_page_formatter_command hook documentation.

I think nvm.man-page is ready to propagate to main.

--
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Re: [Monotone-devel] help text indentation in nvm

[Thomas Keller]

Am 23.08.2010 10:12, schrieb Lapo Luchini:
> It seems that somewhere between 0.48 and trunk we lost two spaces of
> indentation of "mtn help" text, but it's still there after linewrap.

The revision which introduced this problem is d583046e - I'm working on
a fix.

Thank you very much for the pointer!

Thomas.

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[Monotone-devel] help text indentation in nvm

[Lapo Luchini]

It seems that somewhere between 0.48 and trunk we lost two spaces of
indentation of "mtn help" text, but it's still there after linewrap.

% mtn version
monotone 0.48 (revisione base: 844268c137aaa783aa800a9c16ae61edda80ecea)
% ./mtn version
monotone 0.99dev (revisione base: 8dd8764684e269622f354645d12a72f18a475696)
% mtn help diff|tail -n 10
Descrizione di ‘mtn diff’:

  Mostra le differenze attuali.

  Confronta l'albero corrente con i file in archivio e [...]

  Se viene data una revisione, viene mostra la differenza [...]
  differenza tra loro.  Se non viene specificato nessun [...]

  Alias: di.
% ./mtn help diff|tail -n 10
Descrizione di ‘mtn diff’:

Mostra le differenze attuali.

Confronta l'albero corrente con i file in archivio e [...]

Se viene data una revisione, viene mostra la differenza [...]
  differenza tra loro.  Se non viene specificato nessun [...]

Alias: di.

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tried it.” (Donald Knuth, 1977-03-22)


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