[mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull- Duluth
The adult Glaucous-winged Gull was present with 946 other gulls at Canal Park in Duluth this afternoon from 13:46-15:39. Also present in Duluth were 4 Great Black-backeds (1 first-cycle, 2 second-cycles, 1 adult), 4 Iceland Gulls (1 first-cycle, 1 third-cycle, and 2 adults), 7 Thayer’s Gulls (3 first-cycles, 1 second-cycle, 3 adults), 11 Glaucous Gulls (4 adults, 7 first-cycles), 3 Ring-billed Gulls (all first-cycle), and the remaining number were Herring Gulls. Karl Bardon Duluth, MN Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
Hey all- For the record, while a few folks have suggested other possibilities, quite a few experienced gull folk out there have said that the individual in Karl's photos is consistent with a small female Glaucous-winged Gull. I therefore have to second Miek Hendrickson and say this one's for the records committee. Here's hoping! If anyone else has seen it this weekend I'd love to hear about it. My dad and I will be looking tomorrow. Happy Holidays to all, Jesse Ellis On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Terence Brashear birdn...@yahoo.comwrote: I forwarded the link to Karl's photos to my friend Stan Walens in San Diego. He is also taking a look at them. Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html -- Jesse Ellis Post-doctoral Researcher Dept. of Zoology University of Wisconsin - Madison Madison, Dane Co, WI Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
I have sent the photos to my friends Alan in Seattle. He is probably busy doing family Christmassy things (family in Florida no doubt), but will get back to me soon I'm sure. Doug Chapman Sioux Falls, SD On Dec 23, 2011, at 8:53 PM, Jesse Ellis wrote: Hey all- I'm not out to rain on anyone's parade, but I might. I'd be really interested to hear the opinions of some West-coast gull-meisters on this individual. From all of the photos I've seen, the color patterns are (obviously) good for Glaucous-winged Gull, but a lot of the structure is iffy. My chops in terms of gull ID aren't great, but I birded for a year or two in the Seattle area, and spent many winters in Ithaca NY gulling. However it's been a few years since I have put a lot of time into gulls (Madison doesn't get many unless you go to the dump.) All that said, here's my take on these photos. Every time I look at them, I feel weird about the head shape. This includes two aspects. One is the bill and the other is the crown. The bill just doesn't seem heavy enough for a Glaucous-winged. While it's rather stout, there are a number of photos where it seems too short and too even. Glaucous-winged Gulls generally have honkin' huge bills that are long and have a very heavy tip. This bird's bill seems short and fairly even. There are a few pictures that seem closer in line to expected for Glaucous-winged Gull, but the best photos (like this one: http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/image/140493686) show a short, even bill. The other issue well-illustrated in this photo is the steep forehead. In my experience, and perusing lots of photos around, Glaucous-winged Gulls have a flat head and flat forehead sloping slowly down to the bill, even moreso than the similar feature on a Herring Gull. This bird looks more Thayer's-like in that aspect. Another issue is the wing pattern, but this isn't quite as annoying to me. Most of the photos and guides I've looked at say that p10 should have a large white mirror, while p9 will lack a mirror or show a small mirror. This bird has a big mirror. Additionally, most guides and photos show Glaucous-winged Gulls with very little white tongues/moons on p8 and not a ton on p7 (see this photo: http://columbiariverimages.com/Birds/Images09Feb/portland_glaucous-winged_gull_flying_02-16-09.jpg ). I want to be clear, here. These are things about the photos that bother me, given my personal experience with Glaucous Gulls. I'm not calling an ID one way or another on this bird from 9 photos. I hope I'm wrong! I just have a few doubts. I'll probably be up to Duluth to check it out on Monday, if it stays. I'm throwing this out there to get some discussion going, which, I think, is traditional for gulls... Karl, and anyone else who's seen the bird, what do you think about this? Have any western gull folks looked at the photos accumulating? Anyone else who's seen Glaucous-winged Gulls have opinions? Jesse Ellis Madison WI (and currently Saint Paul, MN) On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Karl Bardon karl_bar...@yahoo.com wrote: Beginning at 9:43 this morning, I have been studying an apparent adult Glaucous-winged Gull at Canal Park, Duluth, St. Louis County. I say apparent because of the many complications inherent in identifying large gulls, especially this species. Since Glaucous-winged Gull forms hybrid swarms with multiple other species of gulls (including Glaucous, Western and Herring), where the majority of some local populations are actually hybrids, great must be taken when identifying this species out of range. For now I have posted a single photo on MOU recently seen, but will include a more in depth analysis on my pbase gull pages (www.pbase.com/karlbardon ). Karl Bardon Duluth, MN Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html -- Jesse Ellis Post-doctoral Researcher Dept. of Zoology University of Wisconsin - Madison Madison, Dane Co, WI Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
I forwarded the link to Karl#39;s photos to my friend Stan Walens in San Diego. He is also taking a look at them. Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
Here is Alan Knue's assessment. From: AJ Knue vireolan...@live.com Subject: Re: GWGU ID needed Date: December 24, 2011 12:19:23 PM CST To: douglas chapman food...@sio.midco.net I'm in Florida so I haven't had a chance to really study the pics, but first look it structurally looks wrong. The bill and head shape look very atypical for Glaucous-winged. It also looks smaller than the Herring in some of the pics. I bet this is a bird with Kumlien's genes...maybe Herring x Kumlien's? Maybe I'll have time to look closer later this evening. AJ - Sent from mBox Mail Hotmail for iPhone and iPod Touch http://www.fluentfactory.com/mboxmail On Dec 24, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Terence Brashear wrote: I forwarded the link to Karl's photos to my friend Stan Walens in San Diego. He is also taking a look at them. From: douglas chapman rhameprai...@sio.midco.net; To: MOU-NET@LISTS.UMN.EDU; Subject: Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2011 3:49:40 PM I have sent the photos to my friends Alan in Seattle. He is probably busy doing family Christmassy things (family in Florida no doubt), but will get back to me soon I'm sure. Doug Chapman Sioux Falls, SD On Dec 23, 2011, at 8:53 PM, Jesse Ellis wrote: Hey all- I'm not out to rain on anyone's parade, but I might. I'd be really interested to hear the opinions of some West-coast gull-meisters on this individual. From all of the photos I've seen, the color patterns are (obviously) good for Glaucous-winged Gull, but a lot of the structure is iffy. My chops in terms of gull ID aren't great, but I birded for a year or two in the Seattle area, and spent many winters in Ithaca NY gulling. However it's been a few years since I have put a lot of time into gulls (Madison doesn't get many unless you go to the dump.) All that said, here's my take on these photos. Every time I look at them, I feel weird about the head shape. This includes two aspects. One is the bill and the other is the crown. The bill just doesn't seem heavy enough for a Glaucous-winged. While it's rather stout, there are a number of photos where it seems too short and too even. Glaucous-winged Gulls generally have honkin' huge bills that are long and have a very heavy tip. This bird's bill seems short and fairly even. There are a few pictures that seem closer in line to expected for Glaucous-winged Gull, but the best photos (like this one: http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/image/140493686) show a short, even bill. The other issue well-illustrated in this photo is the steep forehead. In my experience, and perusing lots of photos around, Glaucous-winged Gulls have a flat head and flat forehead sloping slowly down to the bill, even moreso than the similar feature on a Herring Gull. This bird looks more Thayer's-like in that aspect. Another issue is the wing pattern, but this isn't quite as annoying to me. Most of the photos and guides I've looked at say that p10 should have a large white mirror, while p9 will lack a mirror or show a small mirror. This bird has a big mirror. Additionally, most guides and photos show Glaucous-winged Gulls with very little white tongues/moons on p8 and not a ton on p7 (see this photo: http://columbiariverimages.com/Birds/Images09Feb/portland_glaucous-winged_gull_flying_02-16-09.jpg ). I want to be clear, here. These are things about the photos that bother me, given my personal experience with Glaucous Gulls. I'm not calling an ID one way or another on this bird from 9 photos. I hope I'm wrong! I just have a few doubts. I'll probably be up to Duluth to check it out on Monday, if it stays. I'm throwing this out there to get some discussion going, which, I think, is traditional for gulls... Karl, and anyone else who's seen the bird, what do you think about this? Have any western gull folks looked at the photos accumulating? Anyone else who's seen Glaucous-winged Gulls have opinions? Jesse Ellis Madison WI (and currently Saint Paul, MN) On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Karl Bardon karl_bar...@yahoo.com wrote: Beginning at 9:43 this morning, I have been studying an apparent adult Glaucous-winged Gull at Canal Park, Duluth, St. Louis County. I say apparent because of the many complications inherent in identifying large gulls, especially this species. Since Glaucous-winged Gull forms hybrid swarms with multiple other species of gulls (including Glaucous, Western and Herring), where the majority of some local populations are actually hybrids, great must be taken when identifying this species out of range. For now I have posted a single photo on MOU recently seen, but will include a more in depth analysis on my pbase gull pages (www.pbase.com/karlbardon ). Karl Bardon Duluth, MN Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net
Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
Hey all- I'm not out to rain on anyone's parade, but I might. I'd be really interested to hear the opinions of some West-coast gull-meisters on this individual. From all of the photos I've seen, the color patterns are (obviously) good for Glaucous-winged Gull, but a lot of the structure is iffy. My chops in terms of gull ID aren't great, but I birded for a year or two in the Seattle area, and spent many winters in Ithaca NY gulling. However it's been a few years since I have put a lot of time into gulls (Madison doesn't get many unless you go to the dump.) All that said, here's my take on these photos. Every time I look at them, I feel weird about the head shape. This includes two aspects. One is the bill and the other is the crown. The bill just doesn't seem heavy enough for a Glaucous-winged. While it's rather stout, there are a number of photos where it seems too short and too even. Glaucous-winged Gulls generally have honkin' huge bills that are long and have a very heavy tip. This bird's bill seems short and fairly even. There are a few pictures that seem closer in line to expected for Glaucous-winged Gull, but the best photos (like this one: http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/image/140493686) show a short, even bill. The other issue well-illustrated in this photo is the steep forehead. In my experience, and perusing lots of photos around, Glaucous-winged Gulls have a flat head and flat forehead sloping slowly down to the bill, even moreso than the similar feature on a Herring Gull. This bird looks more Thayer's-like in that aspect. Another issue is the wing pattern, but this isn't quite as annoying to me. Most of the photos and guides I've looked at say that p10 should have a large white mirror, while p9 will lack a mirror or show a small mirror. This bird has a big mirror. Additionally, most guides and photos show Glaucous-winged Gulls with very little white tongues/moons on p8 and not a ton on p7 (see this photo: http://columbiariverimages.com/Birds/Images09Feb/portland_glaucous-winged_gull_flying_02-16-09.jpg ). I want to be clear, here. These are things about the photos that bother me, given my personal experience with Glaucous Gulls. I'm not calling an ID one way or another on this bird from 9 photos. I hope I'm wrong! I just have a few doubts. I'll probably be up to Duluth to check it out on Monday, if it stays. I'm throwing this out there to get some discussion going, which, I think, is traditional for gulls... Karl, and anyone else who's seen the bird, what do you think about this? Have any western gull folks looked at the photos accumulating? Anyone else who's seen Glaucous-winged Gulls have opinions? Jesse Ellis Madison WI (and currently Saint Paul, MN) On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Karl Bardon karl_bar...@yahoo.com wrote: Beginning at 9:43 this morning, I have been studying an apparent adult Glaucous-winged Gull at Canal Park, Duluth, St. Louis County. I say apparent because of the many complications inherent in identifying large gulls, especially this species. Since Glaucous-winged Gull forms hybrid swarms with multiple other species of gulls (including Glaucous, Western and Herring), where the majority of some local populations are actually hybrids, great must be taken when identifying this species out of range. For now I have posted a single photo on MOU recently seen, but will include a more in depth analysis on my pbase gull pages (www.pbase.com/karlbardon ). Karl Bardon Duluth, MN Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html -- Jesse Ellis Post-doctoral Researcher Dept. of Zoology University of Wisconsin - Madison Madison, Dane Co, WI Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
[mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
Beginning at 9:43 this morning, I have been studying an apparent adult Glaucous-winged Gull at Canal Park, Duluth, St. Louis County. I say apparent because of the many complications inherent in identifying large gulls, especially this species. Since Glaucous-winged Gull forms hybrid swarms with multiple other species of gulls (including Glaucous, Western and Herring), where the majority of some local populations are actually hybrids, great must be taken when identifying this species out of range. For now I have posted a single photo on MOU recently seen, but will include a more in depth analysis on my pbase gull pages (www.pbase.com/karlbardon). Karl Bardon Duluth, MN Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
