Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps
Dear Wesley, To not saying that such while loops with MPI_Request_get_status are correct, means that the application codes doing so are broken. With adding a new function and explicitly staying again (same as for MPI_Win_test 20 years ago) that such while loops are allowed, gives now a clear hint that MPI_Request_get_status does not allow such programming. We as the MPI forum decided on Feb. 2021 that we do not want to give this inconsistent impression. Therefore we decided to put this into the MPI-4.0 set of late corrections. It is well understood that it was overseen since MPI-2 and the implementors already implemented it without informing the forum. The fix was therefore prepared during the meeting, read and set up for the RC vote. RC vote was done. Therefore it has to go to the FRM vote. It was okay to ask again on last Wednesday, whether this voting process should be continued and my clear answer based on the reasons above is a clear yes. One major duty of the read-whole-standard-review-process is, to find such inconsistencies and correct them. And as we can see, the process worked fine. If you want again to discuss it tomorrow, that's okay. If you ask for an additional reviewer, because you may expect the whole forum has overseen an important technical aspect, that's also okay. Best regards Rolf PS: With the other issue 492, your proposal to move to MPI-4.1 is agreed. - Original Message - > From: "Wesley Bland" > To: "Rolf Rabenseifner" , "Main MPI Forum mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:51:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps > This was removed from 4.0 because it was not considered an “emergency fix”. > That’s not to say that it’s not worthwhile and we can’t or shouldn’t do it for > 4.1, just that we’re going to remove all changes from the list that are not > required so we can make sure to finish 4.0 in June. > > This can still be read in June and voted in to 4.1 in the usual time frame > after > that (1st in September, 2nd in December). > > Am I misunderstanding that there’s something breaking by not having this in > 4.0? > > Thanks, > Wes > >> On Mar 30, 2021, at 4:03 AM, Rolf Rabenseifner via mpi-forum >> wrote: >> >> Dear Martin, Wesley, Bill and all, >> >>> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also >>> address >>> this in the meeting next week. >> >> I detected that also Issue (K=) 468 was moved to MPI-4.1. >> >> I updated the issues's abstract with a summary of the discussion >> (which was partially within the Parrived progress discussion) >> at the Feb. 2021 meeting. >> >> Adding a 4th such test routine (after MPI_Test, Request_get_status, Win_test, >> Parrived), >> it gets significantly more evident if for only one routine, >> Request_get_status, >> there is no such written progress guarantee in the standard. >> >> Therefore, we did this analysis and reading of adding at the Feb. meeting >> for voting it into the standard in June. >> >> There is no reason to break this result from the Feb. 2021 meeting. >> >> Therefore, I put https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/468 >> back to the triage. >> >> @Martin please put it for tomorrow on the agenda. >> >> Best regards >> Rolf >> >> >> - Original Message - >>> From: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >>> To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >>> Cc: "Martin Schulz" >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 7:55:11 PM >>> Subject: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> For those of you who had to miss the virtual MPI Forum meeting today, we >>> had a >>> discussion on the updated process towards MPI 4.0 and how to handle the >>> final >>> tickets. >>> >>> The recording is at (with the right time-marker to this discussion): >>> https://youtu.be/h9MO-BmbfdQ?t=2125 >>> >>> The slides are at: >>> https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-forum.github.io/raw/master/slides/2021/03/2021-03-24-rcm-frm-procedures.pptx >>> >>> The quick summary is that we will limit the tickets that are still >>> considered >>> for MPI 4.0 to only emergency fixes that avoid breaking the standard and >>> that >>> are directly related to new items/procedures/concepts/text added >>> specifically >>> for MPI 4.0. Otherwise we fear (and we are seeing this already) that we may >>> get >>> clogged up with m
Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps
This was removed from 4.0 because it was not considered an “emergency fix”. That’s not to say that it’s not worthwhile and we can’t or shouldn’t do it for 4.1, just that we’re going to remove all changes from the list that are not required so we can make sure to finish 4.0 in June. This can still be read in June and voted in to 4.1 in the usual time frame after that (1st in September, 2nd in December). Am I misunderstanding that there’s something breaking by not having this in 4.0? Thanks, Wes > On Mar 30, 2021, at 4:03 AM, Rolf Rabenseifner via mpi-forum > wrote: > > Dear Martin, Wesley, Bill and all, > >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also >> address >> this in the meeting next week. > > I detected that also Issue (K=) 468 was moved to MPI-4.1. > > I updated the issues's abstract with a summary of the discussion > (which was partially within the Parrived progress discussion) > at the Feb. 2021 meeting. > > Adding a 4th such test routine (after MPI_Test, Request_get_status, Win_test, > Parrived), > it gets significantly more evident if for only one routine, > Request_get_status, > there is no such written progress guarantee in the standard. > > Therefore, we did this analysis and reading of adding at the Feb. meeting > for voting it into the standard in June. > > There is no reason to break this result from the Feb. 2021 meeting. > > Therefore, I put https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/468 > back to the triage. > > @Martin please put it for tomorrow on the agenda. > > Best regards > Rolf > > > - Original Message - >> From: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >> To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >> Cc: "Martin Schulz" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 7:55:11 PM >> Subject: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps > >> Hi all, >> >> For those of you who had to miss the virtual MPI Forum meeting today, we had >> a >> discussion on the updated process towards MPI 4.0 and how to handle the final >> tickets. >> >> The recording is at (with the right time-marker to this discussion): >> https://youtu.be/h9MO-BmbfdQ?t=2125 >> >> The slides are at: >> https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-forum.github.io/raw/master/slides/2021/03/2021-03-24-rcm-frm-procedures.pptx >> >> The quick summary is that we will limit the tickets that are still considered >> for MPI 4.0 to only emergency fixes that avoid breaking the standard and that >> are directly related to new items/procedures/concepts/text added specifically >> for MPI 4.0. Otherwise we fear (and we are seeing this already) that we may >> get >> clogged up with more and more changes that will not get the needed vetting >> and >> - equally important - that we run the risk of some issues not being accepted >> during the vote, which means the FRM is not the final document, which is >> problematic. >> >> Wesley will be going through the board and classifying all issues based on >> that >> (see also slide 11) and then move tickets that do not meet the criteria to >> MPI >> 4.1 (changes that are already in, will stay , though). For this, we agreed to >> temporarily assume the role of a release manager that will advance tickets >> once >> they are ready (and that includes sufficient reviews by the CCs) and meet the >> criteria. >> >> Note, though, this does not mean that the items tagged as 4.1 are postponed >> indefinitely - the plan is to start working on them right after MPI 4.0, if >> time permits, already in the June meeting. We should strive for getting a >> cleaned-up MPI 4.1 out the door soon, preferably before we add (m)any new >> items, but that part we will also discuss in the June meeting. >> >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also >> address >> this in the meeting next week. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Martin >> (also in the name of Bill and Wesley) >> >> >> >> -- >> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems >> Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching >> Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) >> Email: schu...@in.tum.de >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum > > -- > Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseif...@hlrs.de . > High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 . > University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 . > Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . > Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) . > ___ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum ___ mpi-forum mailing list mpi-forum@lists.mpi-foru
Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps
Dear Martin, Wesley, Bill and all, > Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also > address > this in the meeting next week. I detected that also Issue (K=) 468 was moved to MPI-4.1. I updated the issues's abstract with a summary of the discussion (which was partially within the Parrived progress discussion) at the Feb. 2021 meeting. Adding a 4th such test routine (after MPI_Test, Request_get_status, Win_test, Parrived), it gets significantly more evident if for only one routine, Request_get_status, there is no such written progress guarantee in the standard. Therefore, we did this analysis and reading of adding at the Feb. meeting for voting it into the standard in June. There is no reason to break this result from the Feb. 2021 meeting. Therefore, I put https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/468 back to the triage. @Martin please put it for tomorrow on the agenda. Best regards Rolf - Original Message - > From: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" > To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" > Cc: "Martin Schulz" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 7:55:11 PM > Subject: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps > Hi all, > > For those of you who had to miss the virtual MPI Forum meeting today, we had a > discussion on the updated process towards MPI 4.0 and how to handle the final > tickets. > > The recording is at (with the right time-marker to this discussion): > https://youtu.be/h9MO-BmbfdQ?t=2125 > > The slides are at: > https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-forum.github.io/raw/master/slides/2021/03/2021-03-24-rcm-frm-procedures.pptx > > The quick summary is that we will limit the tickets that are still considered > for MPI 4.0 to only emergency fixes that avoid breaking the standard and that > are directly related to new items/procedures/concepts/text added specifically > for MPI 4.0. Otherwise we fear (and we are seeing this already) that we may > get > clogged up with more and more changes that will not get the needed vetting and > - equally important - that we run the risk of some issues not being accepted > during the vote, which means the FRM is not the final document, which is > problematic. > > Wesley will be going through the board and classifying all issues based on > that > (see also slide 11) and then move tickets that do not meet the criteria to MPI > 4.1 (changes that are already in, will stay , though). For this, we agreed to > temporarily assume the role of a release manager that will advance tickets > once > they are ready (and that includes sufficient reviews by the CCs) and meet the > criteria. > > Note, though, this does not mean that the items tagged as 4.1 are postponed > indefinitely - the plan is to start working on them right after MPI 4.0, if > time permits, already in the June meeting. We should strive for getting a > cleaned-up MPI 4.1 out the door soon, preferably before we add (m)any new > items, but that part we will also discuss in the June meeting. > > Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also > address > this in the meeting next week. > > Thanks! > > Martin > (also in the name of Bill and Wesley) > > > > -- > Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems > Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching > Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) > Email: schu...@in.tum.de > > > > > ___ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseif...@hlrs.de . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 . Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) . ___ mpi-forum mailing list mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum
Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps
Hi Rolf, Thanks for catching this - this must have slipped through due to the many different changes on this issue. I agree, we need to at least keep the LIS changes, which reverts back the incorrect changes made in previous issues. Thanks, Martin -- Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) Email: schu...@in.tum.de On 24.03.21, 23:13, "mpi-forum on behalf of Wesley Bland via mpi-forum" wrote: Which thing specifically is broken in 4.0 that wasn’t broken in 3.1? > On Mar 24, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Rolf Rabenseifner via mpi-forum wrote: > > Dear Martin, Bill and Wesley and all, > >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also address >> this in the meeting next week. > > Issue 466 is read at the February meeting and contains required corrections > to the current version of the draft (mpi-4-rc-june), which includes unintented > changes to the MPI-3.1 I/O interface. Therefore, it cannot be posponed to MPI-4.1. > > Best regards > Rolf > > - Original Message - >> From: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >> To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >> Cc: "Martin Schulz" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 7:55:11 PM >> Subject: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps > >> Hi all, >> >> For those of you who had to miss the virtual MPI Forum meeting today, we had a >> discussion on the updated process towards MPI 4.0 and how to handle the final >> tickets. >> >> The recording is at (with the right time-marker to this discussion): >> https://youtu.be/h9MO-BmbfdQ?t=2125 >> >> The slides are at: >> https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-forum.github.io/raw/master/slides/2021/03/2021-03-24-rcm-frm-procedures.pptx >> >> The quick summary is that we will limit the tickets that are still considered >> for MPI 4.0 to only emergency fixes that avoid breaking the standard and that >> are directly related to new items/procedures/concepts/text added specifically >> for MPI 4.0. Otherwise we fear (and we are seeing this already) that we may get >> clogged up with more and more changes that will not get the needed vetting and >> - equally important - that we run the risk of some issues not being accepted >> during the vote, which means the FRM is not the final document, which is >> problematic. >> >> Wesley will be going through the board and classifying all issues based on that >> (see also slide 11) and then move tickets that do not meet the criteria to MPI >> 4.1 (changes that are already in, will stay , though). For this, we agreed to >> temporarily assume the role of a release manager that will advance tickets once >> they are ready (and that includes sufficient reviews by the CCs) and meet the >> criteria. >> >> Note, though, this does not mean that the items tagged as 4.1 are postponed >> indefinitely - the plan is to start working on them right after MPI 4.0, if >> time permits, already in the June meeting. We should strive for getting a >> cleaned-up MPI 4.1 out the door soon, preferably before we add (m)any new >> items, but that part we will also discuss in the June meeting. >> >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also address >> this in the meeting next week. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Martin >> (also in the name of Bill and Wesley) >> >> >> >> -- >> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems >> Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching >> Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) >> Email: schu...@in.tum.de >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum > > -- > Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseif...@hlrs.de . > High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 . > University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 . > Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . > Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) . > ___ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum ___ mpi-forum mailing list mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/
Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps
Which thing specifically is broken in 4.0 that wasn’t broken in 3.1? > On Mar 24, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Rolf Rabenseifner via mpi-forum > wrote: > > Dear Martin, Bill and Wesley and all, > >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also >> address >> this in the meeting next week. > > Issue 466 is read at the February meeting and contains required corrections > to the current version of the draft (mpi-4-rc-june), which includes unintented > changes to the MPI-3.1 I/O interface. Therefore, it cannot be posponed to > MPI-4.1. > > Best regards > Rolf > > - Original Message - >> From: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >> To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" >> Cc: "Martin Schulz" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 7:55:11 PM >> Subject: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps > >> Hi all, >> >> For those of you who had to miss the virtual MPI Forum meeting today, we had >> a >> discussion on the updated process towards MPI 4.0 and how to handle the final >> tickets. >> >> The recording is at (with the right time-marker to this discussion): >> https://youtu.be/h9MO-BmbfdQ?t=2125 >> >> The slides are at: >> https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-forum.github.io/raw/master/slides/2021/03/2021-03-24-rcm-frm-procedures.pptx >> >> The quick summary is that we will limit the tickets that are still considered >> for MPI 4.0 to only emergency fixes that avoid breaking the standard and that >> are directly related to new items/procedures/concepts/text added specifically >> for MPI 4.0. Otherwise we fear (and we are seeing this already) that we may >> get >> clogged up with more and more changes that will not get the needed vetting >> and >> - equally important - that we run the risk of some issues not being accepted >> during the vote, which means the FRM is not the final document, which is >> problematic. >> >> Wesley will be going through the board and classifying all issues based on >> that >> (see also slide 11) and then move tickets that do not meet the criteria to >> MPI >> 4.1 (changes that are already in, will stay , though). For this, we agreed to >> temporarily assume the role of a release manager that will advance tickets >> once >> they are ready (and that includes sufficient reviews by the CCs) and meet the >> criteria. >> >> Note, though, this does not mean that the items tagged as 4.1 are postponed >> indefinitely - the plan is to start working on them right after MPI 4.0, if >> time permits, already in the June meeting. We should strive for getting a >> cleaned-up MPI 4.1 out the door soon, preferably before we add (m)any new >> items, but that part we will also discuss in the June meeting. >> >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also >> address >> this in the meeting next week. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Martin >> (also in the name of Bill and Wesley) >> >> >> >> -- >> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems >> Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching >> Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) >> Email: schu...@in.tum.de >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum > > -- > Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseif...@hlrs.de . > High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 . > University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 . > Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . > Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) . > ___ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum ___ mpi-forum mailing list mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum
Re: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps
Dear Martin, Bill and Wesley and all, > Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also > address > this in the meeting next week. Issue 466 is read at the February meeting and contains required corrections to the current version of the draft (mpi-4-rc-june), which includes unintented changes to the MPI-3.1 I/O interface. Therefore, it cannot be posponed to MPI-4.1. Best regards Rolf - Original Message - > From: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" > To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" > Cc: "Martin Schulz" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 7:55:11 PM > Subject: [Mpi-forum] Process towards MPI 4.0 / Final Steps > Hi all, > > For those of you who had to miss the virtual MPI Forum meeting today, we had a > discussion on the updated process towards MPI 4.0 and how to handle the final > tickets. > > The recording is at (with the right time-marker to this discussion): > https://youtu.be/h9MO-BmbfdQ?t=2125 > > The slides are at: > https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-forum.github.io/raw/master/slides/2021/03/2021-03-24-rcm-frm-procedures.pptx > > The quick summary is that we will limit the tickets that are still considered > for MPI 4.0 to only emergency fixes that avoid breaking the standard and that > are directly related to new items/procedures/concepts/text added specifically > for MPI 4.0. Otherwise we fear (and we are seeing this already) that we may > get > clogged up with more and more changes that will not get the needed vetting and > - equally important - that we run the risk of some issues not being accepted > during the vote, which means the FRM is not the final document, which is > problematic. > > Wesley will be going through the board and classifying all issues based on > that > (see also slide 11) and then move tickets that do not meet the criteria to MPI > 4.1 (changes that are already in, will stay , though). For this, we agreed to > temporarily assume the role of a release manager that will advance tickets > once > they are ready (and that includes sufficient reviews by the CCs) and meet the > criteria. > > Note, though, this does not mean that the items tagged as 4.1 are postponed > indefinitely - the plan is to start working on them right after MPI 4.0, if > time permits, already in the June meeting. We should strive for getting a > cleaned-up MPI 4.1 out the door soon, preferably before we add (m)any new > items, but that part we will also discuss in the June meeting. > > Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns - we will also > address > this in the meeting next week. > > Thanks! > > Martin > (also in the name of Bill and Wesley) > > > > -- > Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems > Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching > Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) > Email: schu...@in.tum.de > > > > > ___ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseif...@hlrs.de . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 . Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) . ___ mpi-forum mailing list mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpi-forum
