Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Yep, who cares whether or not TWENTY THOUSAND PEOPLE (about 5 percent of the city) have been disenfranchised. It's only about forty times the number of voters who provided the winning margin for George Bush in Florida three years ago. News flash: we had three council elections last time 'round decided by about 150 votes or less. I have a modest proposal. Elections are expensive. Let's cut them back to save money. Once every 10 years or so. Or, even better, skip them entirely. Perhaps we can convene a panel of well-intentioned experts, like Mike Hohmann, to govern the city. I'm sure the cost of hiring Mike and his friends to run the city would be a mere fraction of what elections cost. Plus you can add the savings from firing all the people who currently work in the city elections office. I'm sure all of these savings will reduce Mike Hohmann's property taxes by, oh, $5-10 a year. This is a democracy. All citizens should have an equal voice in choosing those who will govern them. Even the 20,000 or so left out in the current system. Even if they don't pay attention to local government. Even if they don't actually vote. Democracy is not a "use it or lose it" proposition. OK, Mike, you don't want to pay for an extra election. What alternative solution do you propose? Greg Abbott On Nov 25, 2003, at 6:11 PM, Michael Hohmann wrote: MH] Yes, and let's make it even MORE REAL-- what percentage of city voters are represented by those numbers? It's registered voters and more importantly, THOSE THAT ACTUALLY SHOW UP TO VOTE that count. How many (raw numbers) and what percentage of registered voters, citywide, are we talking about here? Of those, how many see this issue as being worth pursuing? And what is the actual cost to taxpayers for a special election? --- Greg Abbott Linden Hills 13th ward REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Kahn suit - a plaintiff comments
>>In the interest of openness, I will mention that I am a plaintiff in the Kahn suit. >> I joined this suit because I believethat a 3+year gap between adoption of the new >>ward boundaries and elections congruent with those boundaries undermined the >>intention of timely adoption and implementation of the Y2000 census redistricting. >>In addition I am a resident of the "new" 8th ward which lives under the cloud of >>representative ambiguity given that 8thW Councilperson Lilligren had been >>redistricted out of the 8th (through no fault of his own) and it is unclear at best >>how residents of the noveau 8th W could hold him accountable for his council work >>and its impact on the noveau 8th.<< Ann, thank you for at least being willing to chime in and voice your reasons for joining the suit and why you think it is the right thing. While I disagree with you, I respect that you at least showed up and said your position. In the subject of that disagreement, though, I would first refer you back to Subdivision 1 of Minnesota Statute 205.84, of which your legal team is using Subdivision 2 to now plead your case. Subd. 1 states that a change in ward boundaries does not disqualify a Council Member from serving the remainder of the term. As this is the current law, attempting to force early elections is attempting to break the law. This is what was envisioned when the law was proposed, and you may have stood against it then, but that was the best time to say it was wrong. The really ethical thing to do would be to somehow lobby to change the law through an elected official. If only there was someone in the House who could propose such a thing Kidding aside though, your second point is what has me a little confused. You state that you're unsure how the residents of the noveau 8th Ward can hold Robert accountable. Since Robert is in the new 6th, the premise of holding him accountable by way of election has no merit because whether elections are tomorrow or in 2005, he still would not be running in the 8th (unless he moves back). However, I disagree with this point of voting being the only way to hold him accountable, residents have many more tools available to them including, as we saw in CA, recall elections and even lawsuits like the one you're doing now. There are plenty of ways of holding elected officials accountable, to plead that you can't because of elections seems disingenuous to me. Further, there's plenty you can do to influence his election elsewhere too. Again, I have to refer back to the illogic of saying that someone can't serve a ward or district because they don't live there. If an official is limited in this capacity, they shouldn't be in office. If you insist on this, then one has to question the ability of elected officials to be able to represent the wards that are part of their districts that they don't live in or to represent new parts of their district added after Redistricting. One day they wake up and they have a new section of geography added. If an official cannot represent an area they don't live in, why would another care about a chunk of land they have no relation to being added. That just doesn't hold water. A good elected official will focus on the needs of their ward or district and will talk and work with the residents of such to best represent their needs. Finally, to all those calling this a DFL conspiracy I would hope that you remember that I am a DFL member and there are many others that voice opposition from within our ranks, as well as the fact that the heat kicked up against Don Samuels, another DFLer, as he ran his race. This isn't about trying to crush the Greens as much as I think this is about people being mad that the status quo change. It has more to do for some of the plaintiffs about seats lost by comrades not by parties in my opinion. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: SW Journal article on Affordable Housing
By golly Barb, I think you have something there. Concentrating poverty, shelter beds, and special needs housing in poor and minority neighborhoods is segregation and NOT legal? Yes, it definitely is. I can offer an explanation for it though. Developers make a lot of money from affordable multi-unit supportive housing, and shelter beds. Powerful neighborhoods where more affluent white people live do not want affordable housing and especially special needs people of any kind in their midst. They DO have the ability to stop it. Yet politicians still have to make their developer buddies happy and pay for "contributions". What do you get when politicians need to make both affluent white residents and developer "friends" happy at the same time? You get concentrations of supportive housing and shelter beds in a very few neighborhoods where people are minority and not affluent. You also get institutional patterns of discrimination and racism. Isn't it amazing that a City so dominated by supposedly "Liberal" Democrats would engage in such a thorough exhibition of such discrimination? I guess the key word here is "SUPPOSEDLY"! What would these people be called? Yes In Your Back Yard, (YIYBY's)? Now all of you who think you are "Real" Liberal Democrats need to call your council member and mayor to ask them to please stop discriminating against poor minority people. Please stop attempting to create "containment zones" and concentration camp communities for those with special needs. After all special needs people also come from other parts of Minneapolis and Hennepin County. Isn't it time those "Fortress Neighborhoods" stopped being ashamed of their people and allowed them to live in their own communities? Like an invisible "Steel Curtin" the fortress walls have been erected by hard, cold, affluent hearts to keep the less fortunate contained by discrimination! I, like that hated Republican Regan, say to those Liberal Democrats, " Mayor Rybak and Minneapolis Council break down these walls!" All of you please do needy people a favor this Thanksgiving week. Join me in a phone call plea doing the same. Please? If enough people call maybe it will soften those hard hearts. Thanksgiving sure would be a good time to start. Leave a message if they do not answer the phone. Jim Graham, Ventura Village- Impacted Neighborhood >"It is always an utter folly to underestimate the lure and attraction of a great evil. The whitened bones of their victims litter the highways and byways of mankind's history. Stopped only by the few willing to pay the ultimate price and make a stand." - Toe - Original Message - From: "Barbara Lickness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: [Mpls] Re: SW Journal article on Affordable Housing > The article states: > > The new units are: > Heritage Park, Phase II, Aldrich Avenue North and 7th > Street (57 units); > Lydia Apartments, 1920 LaSalle Ave. (40 units); > Franklin Gateway, 613 E. Franklin Ave. (36 units); > Philips Park Initiative, Phase IIc, 2438 Oakland Ave. > S (24 units); > Trinity Gateway, 2805 E. Lake St. (16 units); and > Lofts on Arts Avenue, 1817-29 3rd Ave. S. (seven > units). > > A total of 164 units with all but 16 of them being > built in neighborhoods that are already highly > concentrated with affordable housing. The 16 units not > being built in an impacted area are within a half mile > of an impacted area. > > I think that shows pretty clearly that concentration > of poverty and special needs housing is alive and well > in Minneapolis. I think purposely concentrating > affordable housing projects in certain geographic > areas could be construed as segregation. Anybody care > to give another explanation for it? > > Barb Lickness > Whittier > Impacted neighborhood > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Kahn suit - a plaintiff comments
In a message dated 11/25/03 6:16:22 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's registered voters and more importantly, THOSE THAT ACTUALLY SHOW UP TO VOTE that count. Mike - Before you go too far down this path...beware - this is a treacherous direction to pursue, IMHO. Following this line of thought, one could argue that the franchise itself should be abandoned when less than a majority make use of it. Is this really the direction you want to go? In the interest of openness, I will mention that I am a plaintiff in the Kahn suit. I joined this suit because I believethat a 3+year gap between adoption of the new ward boundaries and elections congruent with those boundaries undermined the intention of timely adoption and implementation of the Y2000 census redistricting. In addition I am a resident of the "new" 8th ward which lives under the cloud of representative ambiguity given that 8thW Councilperson Lilligren had been redistricted out of the 8th (through no fault of his own) and it is unclear at best how residents of the noveau 8th W could hold him accountable for his council work and its impact on the noveau 8th. I agree with the observations that elections are a costly and time consuming remedy, but I believe that authentic and timely representation trumps convenience. You certainly may disagree, but that's why I joined the suit. Ann Berget Kingfield
Re: [Mpls] Lawsuit Against Conceal-Carry Law
On Nov 25, 2003, at 8:47 AM, Garwood, Robin wrote: Neal Krasnoff writes: "Thank you for clarifying your point. Has the State Legislature ever passed any other bill containing unrelated subjects?" Who cares? "I am shocked, shocked, to see that there's gambling going on in here." Just wondering if it's happened before. The mayor's office seems to believe that the majority of the population of this city is against the conceal carry law. I'd tend to agree. And the injury to the citizens of Minneapolis iswhat? Therefore, I'd expect the administration to use any tool at its disposal to either kill the law in the courts, or exempt Minneapolis from its provisions. It seems to me you're irritated that: a) Minneapolitans do not generally agree with you on this issue and b) we might successfully use a combination of the democratic process and the courts to have our way. You don't even my views on the concealed carry law, only that I want to know why the City is spending tax money on the lawsuit. "If the City has a question with the merits of the law, they should address the issue based upon their status of [sic] an employer, parking lot owner, lessor, and an entity with police powers, not only addressing the alleged technical violation of the Legislature." Why? If the city can successfully deliver for its citizens by suing over a technicality, why should they not do so? I'm so happy that the City is ensuring the peace and dignity of the residents of Minneapolis by trying to overturn a state law that allows for qualified citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Now about those alleged daylight drug deals on Franklin Avenue Your analogy is bunk, by the way. No one recently passed a law specifically allocating taxpayer money to abortions in this city by attaching it to an unrelated bill. But the State Supreme Court did establish law in Doe v. Gomez, conveniently forgetting Article, Section 16 of the Constitution. My point was that it is noteworthy that a Minneapolis attorney, representing no less than fifty religious institutions; and the City, representing itself, and collectively, 382618 people, against an alleged violation of constitutional while there is a current violation of constitutional . Depends on your priorities, and those of the City, the City Attorney, and fifty religious groups. It's unfortunate, because you actually raise a really good philosophical question: should we, as citizens, be forced to pay taxes for things we morally oppose? I tend to agree with you, Neal. I would love to know that none of my tax dollars went to the pentagon, new build highway, nuclear plants, coal industry subsidies, etc. Paving Hennepin Avenue, IMHO, is not a valid analogy to opposing the public funding of abortions within the City. Here's a creative solution: rather than tax dollars being budgeted by legislatures, let's create the budgets as taxpayers. Your yearly tax form could include an allocation sheet that would allow you to choose where your dollars go, and exempt them from projects with which you morally disagree. We could turn April 15th into a celebration of democracy - I'd love paying taxes if I knew where my money was going. Not a bad idea at all, if it is designed as an opt-out, but I think it would fall under State, not City jurisdiction. Neal Krasnoff Loring Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Dennis says: > Heaven forbid 5.22% of the population goes an entire additional > year w/o an > equal voice in City politics. Some under-represented citizen might get > shorted a street light or a boulevard tree in that amount of time. But, > then again, what do I know about such matters [MH] Yes, and let's make it even MORE REAL-- what percentage of city voters are represented by those numbers? It's registered voters and more importantly, THOSE THAT ACTUALLY SHOW UP TO VOTE that count. How many (raw numbers) and what percentage of registered voters, citywide, are we talking about here? Of those, how many see this issue as being worth pursuing? And what is the actual cost to taxpayers for a special election? Michael Hohmann Linden Hills > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Dennis Plante > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 2:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to > force early elect > > > Thanks Fred. Based on the numbers you provided, it appears that 5.22% of > the population is either over-represented, or under-represented > at the City > Council. It's now much easier for me to understand the urgent > need to move > City elections up a year. I'm quite sure at this point that partisan > poitics has nothing to do with it:-) > > Heaven forbid 5.22% of the population goes an entire additional > year w/o an > equal voice in City politics. Some under-represented citizen might get > shorted a street light or a boulevard tree in that amount of time. But, > then again, what do I know about such matters > > No, wait a minute, I just came-up with a great litmus test on the > matter. > How many of these "disenfranchised citizens" are part of the federal > lawsuit? How many of them are even aware of the fact that they > have state > legislatures and a multitude of attorneys battling to get them equal > representation a year early? On my test, the paper stayed the same > color. > > Dennis Plante > Jordan > > _ > online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! > Prices start > at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices > may vary > by service area.) > > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager > at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: > http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wal-Mart doesn't need Minneapolis, Minneapolis needs Wal-Mart
This is the standard line used by the ruling class to destroy small business and co-ops and unions; to send our jobs overseas; etc. The crucial part is to parade some POOR PERSON who can buy CHEAP TOILET PAPER at the big box. And for that we're supposed to give the big boxes truckloads of corporate welfare (TIF), eminent domain to steal land, freeways to get there, disregard EIS statements to pave over acres of land, bust fair wage laws, see small businesses close by the droves, see small towns wasted, see our jobs sent overseas, etc. But by god the poor person is going to buy CHEAP TOILET PAPER. And if anyone objects, they are "arrogant and snobbish"! I have heard this same line many many times (well before this instance); there is always some poor person, cheap toilet paper, and "arrogant and snobbish" objectors. The general line seems to my crap detector to be straight out of the big-box playbook. Probably researched by right-wing think-tanks and audience tested for maximum insidiousness. Turn on your crap detectors. The ruling class is the main source of and beneficiary of mass-produced propaganda (and very effective it is). I do NOT admire Sam Walton or his other billionaire family members. The whole operation undermines democracy and community. Big is bad. And I do not want to live in a city ever more invaded by freeways, big boxes, stadiums, bill boards, vanishing small business, corporate blood-sucked citizenry. And neither do most other people. For poorer people we had in the past higher welfare, unemployment benefits, job retraining, stonger unions, higher effective minimum wages, etc. We could and should demand them back. But the ruling class has led the war to demolish them. And then when as a result the poor are even poorer, they get to be used as poster people to sic soulless big boxes and billionaire predator families on us. Clever and heartless. This is a battle for the soul of Minneapolis. Imagine lots more freeways and big boxes and huge parking lots. Imagine your favorite little businesses closing. Like it? --David Shove Roseville On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Victoria Heller wrote: > Kimberly Goodman writes: "Lowest prices and cheap part-time labor is not > necessarily the best for people, local businesses, neighborhoods, etc. I'd > rather be socially responsible with my spending." > > Winston Churchill in 1904 said: "We say that every (citizen) shall have the > right to buy whatever he wants, wherever he chooses, at his own good > pleasure, without restriction or discouragement from the state." > > Vicky here: Forcing the poor to pay high prices does not strike me as > responsible. > > Kimberly has every right to spend her money where she wants to - but SO DOES > EVERYONE ELSE. Some people cannot afford to pay $20 for a lipstick, or $4 > for toothpaste. Denying people freedom of choice seems arrogant and > snobbish to me. > > Sam Walton had the same philosophy that I do: Offering quality goods and > services at the lowest possible price HELPS MORE PEOPLE. The alternative is > jacking up costs and prices, then demanding subsidies for the poor: This > method makes elitists feel good about themselves - but it harms the people > they claim to be helping. > > Wal-Mart doesn't need Minneapolis. It's expanding by leaps and bounds all > over the world -- especially in Asia where all of our good jobs are going > too. I doubt that Wal-Mart would even want to locate in Minneapolis because > the cost of doing business is just too high. > > Competition drives costs down and keeps everyone honest. This principle is > true in business and politics. Too bad Minneapolis doesn't have any. > > Vicky Heller > North Oaks > > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mack truck outruns MPD: Mpls Perverse Purchasing Report 11/24/03
Unfortuneately, Crown Victorias are one of the few full sized sedans left. Ford also supplies a 'police package' (has to do with suspention and wiring or some such stuff). Squads are used for more than just chasing other cars. There is a little problems of transporting suspects. This is hard to do in a pick-up. Squads need a back seat that is large enough to get a plexi screen and steel panel behind the front seat and still leave room for an average adult to get into the back seat. It also needs a front seat wide enough to seat two officers and a whole bunch of equipment in between them. It used to be that the squads had snow tires put on in the fall, but with radial tires, this was deemed unnecessary. The cheapest and most efficient answer would be chains, or better yet, studded tires. Studs are deemed too hard on the highways, and illegal in Minnesota. If they were allowed on emergency vehicles only, I don't think the damage would be notable. The department does have some SUV's. I think all of the K-9 cars are SUVs since Bowser makes prisoner transport unsatisfactory, anyhow. There are usually a couple SUVs per precincts for supervisors normally, but which the district squads use in bad weather. However, four-wheled drives are more expensive and when you count up the number of squads needed each year, believe me, this mounts up. Since I always have lived in the city, I had the opprtunity to work every blizzard. Oh fun!!! Now I do what I used to tell others; if you can't be part of the solution, stay home and don't contribute to the problem. Anne McCandless Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Michael Hohmann wrote: Regarding the move to force early elections in Mpls.-- Dennis Plante asks: SO WHAT if we don't hold public elections until 2005??? Think for a moment about the amount of manpower (both elected and private) that's currently being dedicated to this issue. Aren't there more pressing issues to dedicate the energy to??? WM: That means that we in the 8th ward, at a minimum, have been disenfranchised for five years. Well, gee, thanks a toad ton. [MH] You forget Dennis, this is a political issue. And I dare say it's only the politico's (the politicians and wannabe's) that even give a rip! Do a legitimate, unbiased random phone survey of voters across the city and tell them how much time, effort, public and private dollars will be spent to 'rectify' the current situation (inadequate voter representation?) in order to assure adequate voter representation- explaining the incremental votes expected- in a couple of wards, relative to citywide vote totals, and see what the voters really think about forcing 'early' elections. WM: I haven't made up my mind whether Rep. Kahn is on a tear or not. And I'm unwilling to build a castle in the air (good, bad, or indifferent) about her motives. I do know, as a resident of the 8th ward, that Lilligren is smart enough to see that he cannot be held accountable at the next election by his 8th ward constituents unless he moves into the new 8th ward. He's already said that he won't move. If he keeps to that (and I have no reason to doubt him) then we cannot hold him accountable for what he's done or failed to do. Elections are the only legal way we have of holding council members accountable. The other options, like running them out of town on a rail or taking them out and shooting them, seem a tad extreme. But Michael to apply a price tag to my right to vote and hold my council member accountable seems a little extreme too. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Thanks Fred. Based on the numbers you provided, it appears that 5.22% of the population is either over-represented, or under-represented at the City Council. It's now much easier for me to understand the urgent need to move City elections up a year. I'm quite sure at this point that partisan poitics has nothing to do with it:-) Heaven forbid 5.22% of the population goes an entire additional year w/o an equal voice in City politics. Some under-represented citizen might get shorted a street light or a boulevard tree in that amount of time. But, then again, what do I know about such matters No, wait a minute, I just came-up with a great litmus test on the matter. How many of these "disenfranchised citizens" are part of the federal lawsuit? How many of them are even aware of the fact that they have state legislatures and a multitude of attorneys battling to get them equal representation a year early? On my test, the paper stayed the same color. Dennis Plante Jordan _ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Regarding the move to force early elections in Mpls.-- Dennis Plante asks: > SO WHAT if we don't hold public elections until 2005??? Think > for a moment > about the amount of manpower (both elected and private) that's currently > being dedicated to this issue. Aren't there more pressing issues to > dedicate the energy to??? > > Where does common sense enter into it??? > [MH] You forget Dennis, this is a political issue. And I dare say it's only the politico's (the politicians and wannabe's) that even give a rip! Do a legitimate, unbiased random phone survey of voters across the city and tell them how much time, effort, public and private dollars will be spent to 'rectify' the current situation (inadequate voter representation?) in order to assure adequate voter representation- explaining the incremental votes expected- in a couple of wards, relative to citywide vote totals, and see what the voters really think about forcing 'early' elections. A survey of voters in the specific wards involved would be interesting, however, voters and taxpayers citywide would foot the bill, therefore the survey should include voters citywide. Also add in an estimated cost for all the lost productivity as everyday political business- important business, is put on hold while politicians and wannabe's campaigns to raise funds in order to win the election. It's stuff like this that explains why so many people are turned off to politics in general, and just figure 'less is more' in the political arena-- and vote (or not) accordingly! After all the time, effort and money is spent to hold this special election in Mpls., what significant net changes (in policies/ programs/ taxes) might city residents, voters and taxpayers experience, given the impact of a few hundred (a thousand maybe?) incremental votes due to several changed ward boundaries? What is the cost per incremental vote involved here; the tangible benefit to residents citywide? Some will say it's the principle of the thing. However, I think voters and taxpayers are more interested in the practicality of the thing; and are of a mindset that says, "Don't waste my time and my money on political principles that hold no practical, tangible net value to me, my family and my neighborhood. And that includes things like a net gain/loss for a given party on the City Council as a result of this proposed special election-- it doesn't translate as a net gain per say to city voters/taxpayers overall! It only matters to the politicos and their respective parties. Politicos-- Take note, and GET REAL, and take care of practical everyday business-- like how to eliminate the state budget deficit in the most 'practical' manner... and, then deal with it again at the local level... deal with the little things like figuring out how to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in city pension shortfalls over the next decade (without tripling the cost to taxpayers by bonding), and-most importantly, make the contractual changes necessary to rectify the problem as we move forward; and, still keep libraries open, police and fire on the street, etc., etc. Michael Hohmann Linden Hills REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Here's some precise numbers from down memory lane. Six and two were really big, one and eleven were really small. As of March 25, 2002 Old Wardpopulation deviation % deviation % white 1 26906 -2526 -8.58 80.86% 2 327933361 11.42 68.62% 3 29849 4171.42 47.90% 4 3074413124.46 51.07% 5 28749-683 -2.32 31.69% 6 333643932 13.36 42.40% 7 29624 1920.65 81.22% 8 29771 3391.15 42.71% 9 30088 6562.23 65.27% 10 28578-854-2.9 80.29% 11 26838 -2594 -8.81 86.19% 12 27353 -2079 -7.06 84.24% 13 27961 -1471 -5.00 93.47% sum 382618 Total population382618 ideal district 29432 population range 26838 to 33364 ratio range 1.24 absolute range -2594 to 3932 absolute overall range6526.00 relative range-8.81% to 13.36% relative overall range 22.17% absolute mean deviation 1570.46 relative mean deviation 5.34% standard deviation 2041.77 Fred Markus, West Philips, Old Ward 8-1, New Ward 6-7 (for now) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003 REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
On Nov 25, 2003, at 9:24 AM, Dennis Plante wrote: Since the biggest argument I've seen for City elections being held earlier than is currently scheduled is the "one person one vote" item, I'd be curious to know if anyone has a head-count on just how many "under-represented and over-represented" citizens there are currently??? What percentage of the total City population are we talking about? You'd have to ask the actual participants in the lawsuit for the actual numbers. (For the record, I am not involved in the lawsuit either as a litigant or as an attorney). My fallible memory recalls a population disparity between the old 2nd ward and the old 11th ward of something like 20 percent. The "ideal" population for a ward based on the 2000 census is something like 29,500. The old 2nd has approx. 33,000, and the old 11th has something like 26,000. There are a few other wards out of whack, but the worst disparity is 2 and 11. I'm sure my numbers are off, but that should give you an idea of the scope of the issue. Greg Abbott Sent from the computer of: Greg Abbott Linden Hills 13th Ward REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] The Wrath of Kahn, the sequel!
Now that the term "Wrath of Kahn" is stuck in my brain, I keep having a vision of Captain Ostrow (more power IGR Scotty) manning the helm, attempting to secure the bridge of the Enterprise, while the insurgent Captain Kahn and her minions wander unchecked below deck. In terms of Green party destruction, I cannot speak for the D's, although it is certainly not a goal of the R's. Having done voter analysis for the R's at times, I can observe where the strongest G precincts are. These precincts do not line up in appreciable strength for either CM Z or CM J-L under any previous, current, or proposed ward lines. Perhaps as they did gain office, the voters chose other attributes than a party label. In terms of election schedule, the Minneapolis City Council (MCC) has had numerous opportunities to fix this problem. Minneapolis is the last city in the state to hold elections based on the 02 redistricting, aside from some outstate and suburban cities that have staggered terms; although these cities did elect or re-elect members in 02 or 03 based on the redistricting. Once again (good or bad) Minneapolis stands out from the crowd up the political food chain, thus detracting from more important issues. Having lobbied at the (Mn.) capitol the last three sessions, Ms. Kahn's bill narrowly missed the Senate floor in 03, with observers predicting passage and the Governors signature. Had the members of the MCC been self serving (I am not judging motives), an election should have been held fall 03, thus the CM's becoming darlings of the populace and too fast for any potential challengers. The worst case scenario for the MCC in the mid term would be a court ordered election around the time frame late May04 thru late June04 with the problem of the voters paying (pleased or outraged, who gets credit or blame) their property taxes. The more I consider this situation, the more I favor 2 year terms for the MCC, vis-a-vis your state representative. I am not proposing that we return to the 1950's when Minneapolis had 26 part time (who wants a job) CM's, or if we maintain a full time council we reduce to 9 CM's to line up with cities of our size across the nation, well then again. Seldom in my 20 years in politics have a run across a politician (confident or full of themselves, you choose) who is afraid to stand for re-election. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Wal-Mart
"From: "Victoria Heller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Minneapolis Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:52:09 -0600 Subject: [Mpls] Wal-Mart in Minneapolis I've read that Wal-Mart saves American consumers $10 Billion each year. Wal-Mart has improved the standard of living of millions of people around the world - = not to mention the employees who became millionaires by holding its stock. Low prices good - high prices bad. Victoria Heller North Oaks" Response: Cost internalization good. Cost externalization bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because Sam Walmart was a genius in methods of product inventory and distribution, good. If Wal-Mart prices are low because goods are produced by exploited workers, bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because goods are produced in countries without environmental protections, bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because Wal-Mart employees are not paid a living wage, bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because the corporation does not need to compensate for the destruction of local economies, bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because the corporation does not need to protect against local water resource impairments from the 50 acres of hard surface it puts on the landscape, bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because profoundly subsidized fuel prices allow consumer goods to be shipped economically across the nation and around the world, bad. If Wal-Mart prices are low because producers of goods pay Wal-Mart to allow them to put tracking devices in their products without telling customers, bad. Market economics 101: social welfare is optimized by the market only when all costs are internalized in prices. If this means the poor need to pay more for products, the answer is not to make stuff artificially cheaper for everyone by pushing costs off on exploited workers, communities, and those who breathe the air and drink the water near factories; it is to work toward a society where there is not such a vast maldistribution of wealth (and, no, there is no strong correlation between the accumulation of wealth and the doing of worthwhile things). Unfortunately, for the past several decades our leaders have been pushing non-stop in the opposite direction. Chuck Holtman Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: SW Journal article on Affordable Housing
The article states: The new units are: Heritage Park, Phase II, Aldrich Avenue North and 7th Street (57 units); Lydia Apartments, 1920 LaSalle Ave. (40 units); Franklin Gateway, 613 E. Franklin Ave. (36 units); Philips Park Initiative, Phase IIc, 2438 Oakland Ave. S (24 units); Trinity Gateway, 2805 E. Lake St. (16 units); and Lofts on Arts Avenue, 1817-29 3rd Ave. S. (seven units). A total of 164 units with all but 16 of them being built in neighborhoods that are already highly concentrated with affordable housing. The 16 units not being built in an impacted area are within a half mile of an impacted area. I think that shows pretty clearly that concentration of poverty and special needs housing is alive and well in Minneapolis. I think purposely concentrating affordable housing projects in certain geographic areas could be construed as segregation. Anybody care to give another explanation for it? Barb Lickness Whittier Impacted neighborhood = "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Counting affordable housing units
Is it really progress to go from 80% metro median income subsidies in the 1990s, to counting shelter beds as "affordable housing" units, to toying with 80% metro median income subsidies as a sensible future goal in 2004/5 and after as was intimated in the Ways and Means committee meeting? It troubles me to see CM Lilligren talking disparagingly (same Ways and Means on Nov. 20) about 50% metro median income households as less than desirable in Minneapolis' future housing mix. That's about $38,350 annual income these days, $19+/hr. Applying that income standard to the existing household mix in the either the new Sixth Ward or the old Eighth Ward would bring quite the cloud banks over the sun in near south Minneapolis, would it not? With the caveat that the NRP site is still using 1990 census data, consider the following MMI household incomes: Phillips ($12,254 = 16% MMI) Stevens Square/Loring Heights ($14,417 = 19% MMI) Whittier ($17,325 = 23% MMI) Central ($19,528 = 25% MMI) I imagine 2003 neighborhood MMI percentages would be more robust, but still nowhere near 50% MMI. It is common knowledge that the shortfall of affordable housing - say 12-15,000 units - is at the low end of % MMI, way below 50% MMI. So when Rybak staffer Takeshita blithely includes shelter beds, CM Lilligren denigrates the need for housing that his constituencies can afford, and CM Johnson wants to drain the affordable housing trust fund dollars on behalf of property tax relief (that would apply across the board, don't forget, not just to the benefit of low-end homeowners) ... It seems to me that mission drift in the City's leadership is alive and well in the affordable housing campaign. Fred Markus, West Phillips, old Ward 8-1, new Ward 6-7 (for now) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003 REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Wrath from Nicollet Island - Greg Abbott's response
> Neal Krasnoff writes: > > "Thank you for clarifying your point. Has the State Legislature ever > passed any other bill containing unrelated subjects?" > Garwood, Robin responds: > Who cares? Yes they have and we should all care. The State Supreme Court has on several occaisions declared such laws void for containing unrelated subjects. We should all care that all government bodies are following the rules. Those rules are there for our protection. I'd like to thank Greg Abbott for his thoughful legal analysis (both of them) of the election issue. His answer to "who cares?" applies a number of places. Greg says: This whole "what's the problem, let's just ignore it" response lays the groundwork for an apathetic reaction the next time constitutional issues are at stake. And the next time, and the time after that. It won't take too long before some hyped-up partisans in a state legislature somewhere use the Minneapolis precedent as a justification for some seriously bad behavior. Adding: "It is reasonable to debate the merits of how to address this constitutional problem -- a special election is particularly controversial, I understand that objection. But to argue that discussion of a probable violation of the constitution is a waste of time, because "there are more pressing issues" -- well, to me that sounds a lot like John Ashcroft defending the Patriot Act. Gotta like comparing our Council to Ashcroft. Greg's earlier suggestion about drawing ward lines by computer would have been a good idea to. No reason that a Redistriction Commission couldn't do that. Terrell Brown Loring Park __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
Since the biggest argument I've seen for City elections being held earlier than is currently scheduled is the "one person one vote" item, I'd be curious to know if anyone has a head-count on just how many "under-represented and over-represented" citizens there are currently??? What percentage of the total City population are we talking about? Dennis Plante Jordan _ Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
In a message dated 11/25/03 8:06:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << When focusing on the "issue," let's remember something: the Minneapolis City Council unanimously opposes Kahn's early-election initiative - that includes the 10 out of 13 who are DFLers! And her bill died in the state Senate - the body controlled by DFLers! (It passed in the House with Republican help.) Whole wings of the DFL party must not've gotten the conspiracy memo on this one. >> Sorry but I agree with David Shove. The Councilmembers are protecting their own interests -- none of them wants to run another campaign until necessary. And the state legislature has bigger fish to fry than Minneapolis elections. Kahn's position doesn't carry much weight as far as I can see, except as an attack on the Green minority. I wish the Council would take care of the term discrepancies itself -- I think it needs to be done -- but Kahn's tactics are way over the top in proportion to the severity of the problem (especially compared to far more serious attacks presently being waged on the Constitution). Still for the revolution :-) -- Holle Brian Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Lawsuit Against Conceal-Carry Law
Neal Krasnoff writes: "Thank you for clarifying your point. Has the State Legislature ever passed any other bill containing unrelated subjects?" Who cares? The mayor's office seems to believe that the majority of the population of this city is against the conceal carry law. I'd tend to agree. Therefore, I'd expect the administration to use any tool at its disposal to either kill the law in the courts, or exempt Minneapolis from its provisions. It seems to me you're irritated that: a) Minneapolitans do not generally agree with you on this issue and b) we might successfully use a combination of the democratic process and the courts to have our way. "If the City has a question with the merits of the law, they should address the issue based upon their status of [sic] an employer, parking lot owner, lessor, and an entity with police powers, not only addressing the alleged technical violation of the Legislature." Why? If the city can successfully deliver for its citizens by suing over a technicality, why should they not do so? It's interesting, Neal. Feel free to correct me if I have a mistaken impression, but you strike me as a Law n' Order type (I'm not referring to the television program). If that's so, why do you take so lightly the accusation that the legislature is breaking the law? Your defense of their anti-constitutional behavior to pass conceal carry seems to come down to "it's ok to steal if everyone else is doin' it." I, for one, am thrilled and surprised to hear about the one-law one-subject provision in the Constitution. In my opinion, our state would be better off if citizens of this state held the legislature to this provision by legally challenging EVERY tacked-on amendment. Why does this state need laws that cannot pass on their own, that must be slipped into larger bills? Your analogy is bunk, by the way. No one recently passed a law specifically allocating taxpayer money to abortions in this city by attaching it to an unrelated bill. It's unfortunate, because you actually raise a really good philosophical question: should we, as citizens, be forced to pay taxes for things we morally oppose? I tend to agree with you, Neal. I would love to know that none of my tax dollars went to the pentagon, new build highway, nuclear plants, coal industry subsidies, etc. Here's a creative solution: rather than tax dollars being budgeted by legislatures, let's create the budgets as taxpayers. Your yearly tax form could include an allocation sheet that would allow you to choose where your dollars go, and exempt them from projects with which you morally disagree. We could turn April 15th into a celebration of democracy - I'd love paying taxes if I knew where my money was going. Legislatures could still set how much each tax bracket pays, and could still make the laws. But we might be able to keep them from passing pork-filled omnibus bills like the current energy package. Local focus: let's start this ball rolling in Minneapolis. What's to keep us from providing people with a form along with their property tax bill that would allow them to allocate a portion of their own dollars? We could limit it to residents and small businesses, relying on the large corporate tax base for the general fund. Let's start the discussion. Robin Garwood SE Como REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Lawsuit Against Conceal-Carry Law
Neal I think that the issue for Minneapolis is not the law itself, but the way it was passed. I have that problem with the law, it was passed in a very covert way by those who probably felt they would not get the law passed as they wanted it if it was given the full light of day. I do not have a problem with the law for the most part, but parts of it are very wrong and should be changed. Some of our legislators want it brought before the full house for review, comment and then pass it. Right now I look at this gun law as nothing more than pork barrel politics. Now I must add that I am not the most or best informed person, so I may be a bit off in what I know, but that's what I get for reading the paper and watching the news on the tube. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] City counts shelter beds as affordable housing
Most of the new affordable units the city is taking credit for so far in 2003 are shelter beds: http://www.skywaynews.net/display/inn_news/news01.txt Also...an English bobbie in Minneapolis to help institute Downtown security cams: http://www.skywaynews.net/display/inn_news/news03.txt 39-story Bridge Place condo tower on the Downtown riverfront advances: http://www.skywaynews.net/display/inn_news/news06.txt Citizens begin police chief review (plus, why there's no city calendar for 2004) http://www.skywaynews.net/display/inn_news/news07.txt David Brauer Editor, Skyway News (and Southwest Journal) Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Wrath of Kahn: gunning for politicians' salaries to force early elect
David Shove writes: > The whole point of this "issue" is for the DFL to destroy the Green Party When focusing on the "issue," let's remember something: the Minneapolis City Council unanimously opposes Kahn's early-election initiative - that includes the 10 out of 13 who are DFLers! And her bill died in the state Senate - the body controlled by DFLers! (It passed in the House with Republican help.) Whole wings of the DFL party must not've gotten the conspiracy memo on this one. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wal-Mart
Hi, Victoria Heller -- On 11/25/03 7:10 AM, you wrote: > Kimberly Goodman writes: "Lowest prices and cheap part-time labor is not > necessarily the best for people, local businesses, neighborhoods, etc. I'd > rather be socially responsible with my spending." > Vicky here: Forcing the poor to pay high prices does not strike me as > responsible. > > Kimberly has every right to spend her money where she wants to - but SO DOES > EVERYONE ELSE. Some people cannot afford to pay $20 for a lipstick, or $4 > for toothpaste. Denying people freedom of choice seems arrogant and > snobbish to me. Corporate America makes all kinds of choices for us. When was the last time any of us walked in and negotiated our prices at the grocery store, or with our own city services? We are not just individuals living out the American dream independent of one another or our economy and the larger world. You skipped the first part of my message, which was about the IMPACT ON EMPLOYEES, not just shoppers. >> Have you read "Nickled and Dimed"? >> >> http://www.cloggie.org/books/nickled-and-dimed.html >> >> Quite a different take on the realities for Walmart employees. Lowest prices >> and cheap part-time labor is not necessarily the best for people, local >> businesses, neighborhoods, etc. I'd rather be socially responsible with my >> spending. I'm one of those strange people who believes we need a different healthcare system, a different transportation system, an economy which has values other than "lowest price", and serious money behind education-- and higher taxes to pay for it. I don't know how some people think selling more for cheaper create sustainability. And I'm not sure you can put lipstick on the list of basic needs, no matter what the price. -- Kim Kimberly Goodman 3649 Park Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55407 612-823-4488 [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Wal-Mart doesn't need Minneapolis, Minneapolis needs Wal-Mart
Kimberly Goodman writes: "Lowest prices and cheap part-time labor is not necessarily the best for people, local businesses, neighborhoods, etc. I'd rather be socially responsible with my spending." Winston Churchill in 1904 said: "We say that every (citizen) shall have the right to buy whatever he wants, wherever he chooses, at his own good pleasure, without restriction or discouragement from the state." Vicky here: Forcing the poor to pay high prices does not strike me as responsible. Kimberly has every right to spend her money where she wants to - but SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE. Some people cannot afford to pay $20 for a lipstick, or $4 for toothpaste. Denying people freedom of choice seems arrogant and snobbish to me. Sam Walton had the same philosophy that I do: Offering quality goods and services at the lowest possible price HELPS MORE PEOPLE. The alternative is jacking up costs and prices, then demanding subsidies for the poor: This method makes elitists feel good about themselves - but it harms the people they claim to be helping. Wal-Mart doesn't need Minneapolis. It's expanding by leaps and bounds all over the world -- especially in Asia where all of our good jobs are going too. I doubt that Wal-Mart would even want to locate in Minneapolis because the cost of doing business is just too high. Competition drives costs down and keeps everyone honest. This principle is true in business and politics. Too bad Minneapolis doesn't have any. Vicky Heller North Oaks REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Racial Profiling to get closer look in Minneapolis
Some of the significant factors that will be looked at during the audit include traffic-stop enforcement strategies, reward structure, training, hiring and promotion standards and the department's culture itself, Johnson said. SL-I'm happy to see that the Mayor and the Mpls Police Dept. with the help of Council on Crime and Justice are looking at institutional factors. Profiling to get closer look in Minneapolis David Chanen, Star Tribune Published November 25, 2003 http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4232047.html Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Mack truck outruns MPD: Mpls Perverse Purchasing Report 11/24/03
With the snow falling saturday night I had picked one of the finest of the fleet from the Postal Service garage- a '98 Mack with tandem drive axles, ABS with traction control, and an Allison automatic. Coming back from the airport with a load of priority and first class mail, I used our usual bypass around the congestion at 3rd Avenue and Washington. Crossing at the 4 way stop, I noted a standard issue MPD cruiser pull up to the stop sign, then suddenly turn and follow me in cold pursuit. Preparing to pull over and stop and soon as the officer turned on the bubblegum machine and inquired what I was doing on this little known truck route, I watched my mirrors. Unfortunately, despite my slow pace in deference to the slippery streets the pursuit did not go well, the Crown Vic cruiser getting sideways in a lovely slide. Shortly thereafter the officer decided to abandon the pursuit, turning around with another skid and returning to the relative safety of plowed and salted streets. Why do we buy police cars that can't keep up with an old lady in a slow truck hauling 10 or so tons of mail when the snow flies? Any observer of the local gangbangers will note their preference for 4 wheel drive SUVs. This was amusing a few years back when the gangbanger slid around worse than MPD because they couldn't figure out how to engage four wheel drive. But the newer SUVs have four wheel drive hardwired on, so even the most crackheaded gangbanger can drive away and hide from MPD. So why does a city where half the year is slippery going buy an ancient rear drive squad like the Crown Vic at $20 grand or so a pop? It's not because their built here- haven't been since the '70s. It's not because we have a local dealer to patronize- you can't even buy a new Crown Cic (or any other Ford, Chevy, or Dodge car) in Minneapolis anymore. And it's not because there aren't better vehicles available- note that several suburbs, airport police, etc. are using front wheel drive cars, four wheel drive pickup trucks, and even SUVs. Even our Park Police have snuck in a few four wheel drive pickups. Clearly some original thinking is going on in police car purchasing, but not in our city hall. Clearly it's time for some of that "fresh air" that R.T. promised to find it's way to whatever catacomb of city hall they do purchasing in. We need to look at Ranger pickups, dent and rust resistant Saturns, VW Diesels, and a whole host of other vehicles for our future purchases. Until then, when the snow flies, just about anything on the road can outrun our police. hangin' on in Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Minority Students Achievement Gap
Dooley, Bill wrote: From the Monday, November 24, 2003 USA Today under the headline "POOR, MINORITY KIDS FACE LONG ODDS IN EDUCATION," here are the lead paragraphs: ... "Before they're even born, poor minority children are at risk of doing poorly in school, a new report suggests. ... " WM: I would argue that poor whites suffer a similar fate from similar preconditions. Beyond low birth weight, etc. there is a type of deprivation which comes from having a family that is not a reading family. No books in evidence, no readers in the household. Unknown to both parental and/or guardian units, kids are not absorbing some cultural signals in a way that they can use them in the future. Apparently, somewhere during the 4th grade, according to studies, kids go into a slump. This comes about when the learning is divorced from mythic, cultural, and other sources of information that have not been shared with kids. For example, we have January because of the Roman god Janus. Janus was a number one type god to the Romans during Ceasar's time, and it connects forward to Shakespeare's Julius Ceasar and to calendars in general and to physics and North African history, yadda, yadda. A plethora of other touch stones that exist along the way are helpful in absorbing the most one can out of a grammar school education. You see how that goes? If the family a child comes from has no notion of any of the parts of that whole thread of history, it becomes more difficult, if not impossible, to hold on to the later information. Each time a kid has less to hold on to--meaning less that relates to anything in his/her daily life or home life, the less the kid is prepared to go forward to the next year of information the schools are trying to impart to students. This applies to white kids as well as children of color among the poor. Unless you were born to the middle class shortly after it's invention, you can trace back to your personal ancestors and say, "My great grandmother could neither read or write. Three generations later, I have earned a BA" or whatever. Without outside forces pushing it--rarely could a family produce among those who are only two or three generations away from both kinds of illiteracy--in any language--college bound generations. Without strong outside incentives and a huge amount of support from families that can rarely understand themselves what the kids are talking about with their schoolwork, it takes longer than three generations. There may be nothing greater than bone poor poverty to stomp out the lights in a child's eyes. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
