Re: [Mpls] Why I can't support RT Civil Rights Director
Booker, Here''s the thing, you've made a lot of statements, but have not been able to back them up, and don't seem to have a clear understanding of even the accusations you've made. You say she's too connected to the establishment, but you offer no proof or even examples. You say she's an elitist and part of SEVERAL elitist organization, yet the only one you take umbrage with is the Links, Inc, a volunteer service and development organization for women of color, yet excuse your fraternity which is so similar as to be cited in the very source (sole source) that Doug mentioned. The only difference is that I'm aware of the Links working to help the community here. You're saying that the $600.00 you paid is a lot less, but again offered no proof. What is the price tag on elitism? At what dollar figure does it go from being reasonable to being elite? The bottom line is that you are being prejudice under the pretense of "protecting" the Civil Rights department. The irony is staggering. You don't know this woman, you don't have any proof or support for your claims yet you will wantonly cast aspersions at her character without provocation. And in my opinion, you're better than that. This position isn't a watchdog, it's a visible leader and a proactive problem solver. We don't need someone who's going to hunker down and watch in case things happen, that's reactive. We need someone who will take the lead on managing the programs, identifying the problems and developing long term collaborative and sustainable solutions. I believe Ms. Khalifa will take this charge head on, but it's not something that any one person could or should do alone. She should not have to shut you up, instead she should be able to count on you being there to lend your expertise, your knowledge and your activism to make certain that not only she succeeds, but the department does as well. What better way to ensure that the needs of the community are met and the priorities that you think are important are focussed on? We have too many people who claim to be "for the people" but when it comes down to it, all they do is complain, make accusations, pick fights and call themselves a leader. They don't work on solution and they don't approach things collaboratively. Why? Why is the only tactic attack? No person in the City is pure, unadulterated evil, so why not help people succeed? Why not work with people rather than being on them like "white on rice"? This doesn't mean that you don't hold them accountable or don't demand what is fair and right, just that you don't have to hit someone upside the head in order to work on issues. Give her a chance, a fair and honest one, because everyone deserves that. That's what civil rights is all about. Jonathan Palmer Victory "My grandfather told me there are two kinds of people in this world: those who do the work, and those who take the credit. He said to be in the first group because there was less competition." -Indira Gandhi In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:40:31 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mr. JP I just want to say one thing. I do not agree that my frat or any other Black Greek organization is elitist. I can assure that the $600 I paid to join Kappa is a lot less than what you would pay to be a part of the Links, Inc. Bottom line you, me, Doug and others will probably never agree on this woman being civil rights director. My t underlying argument is that is that she is to connected to the establishment that she is supposed to watchdog. Maybe the position should be an elected. I am done fighting this. I just hope that when she gets in that she does some good and shuts ME and other nay sayers up. But if she doesn't I will be on her like white on rice. This woman won't even be able to leave her office without thinking about me. I will praise her if she does well also. Booker T Hodges North side REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Why I DO support RT's pick for civil rights
In a message dated 5/1/2004 3:58:28 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << As for your article (and the price tag you mentioned) I can find no reference other than your writing, which I think you must agree, can't be considered fact without some form of support, but we'll run with the supposition, mentions the group being encouraged to join to support a candidate, which is not the same thing as "joining forces", but you're hardly an unbias party with an objective view. >> The article in question cited a Links newsletter that was photocopied and widely distributed to local NAACP members and others. That is a form of support, n'est ce pas? It is a fact that officers of the Links chapter worked in concert with DFL politicians to elect a slate of NAACP branch officers that would be 'more supportive' of Link Carol Johnson and the mayor, Sharon Sayles Belton. How is that not "joining forces?" That a gaggle of DFL politicians participated in that election of NAACP officers, including many white liberals who ordinarily wouldn't be caught dead at an NAACP branch meeting, is well documented in the City Pages article "Black like Us," by Beth Hawkins. And yes, I am a biased party. I openly supported the reelection of Leola Seals as Minneapolis NAACP branch president (who lost in a very close vote in 1999). I also supported the candidacy of Ron Edwards for the same office in 2002. -Doug Mann, King Field Minneapolis School Board candidate REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Why I can't support RT Civil Rights Director
Mr. JP I just want to say one thing. I do not agree that my frat or any other Black Greek organization is elitist. I can assure that the $600 I paid to join Kappa is a lot less than what you would pay to be a part of the Links, Inc. Bottom line you, me, Doug and others will probably never agree on this woman being civil rights director. My t underlying argument is that is that she is to connected to the establishment that she is supposed to watchdog. Maybe the position should be an elected. I am done fighting this. I just hope that when she gets in that she does some good and shuts ME and other nay sayers up. But if she doesn't I will be on her like white on rice. This woman won't even be able to leave her office without thinking about me. I will praise her if she does well also. Booker T Hodges North side _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Why I DO support RT's pick for civil rights
Okay, so let me get this straight. You, a candidate for school board and champion of education, bring one book and one article that you wrote to the table as reference? I don't think I've every written any report, or position paper from only one source, but let's just go with yours because it was all you came up with. "Our Kind of People" does reference the Links, the Boule, Jack and Jill, etc. but it also cites the Black sororities and fraternities as I mentioned before such as the Kappas of which Booker (who started this thread) was president and charter member of his school's chapter. Further the NAACP, of whom you've proudly stated you're a member of, has as it's founders, WEB Dubois, who was the first Black person to get a Ph.D. from Harvard (got a Masters there as well), was awarded a grant to study abroad by Rutherford B. Hayes and created and advanced the idea of the Talented Tenth, the upper crust of educated Black people who would guide the race in it's proper direction; and Ida B. Wells Barnett who was well known for her anti-lynching campaign was also a soror of Delta Sigma Theta, mentioned in "Our Kind of People" and also founded and developed a local and national networks of black women's club including the Alpha Suffrage Club of Chicago, the Negro Fellowship League and the Women's Era Club which later changed it's name to the Ida B. Wells club, and is described as the first civic organization for African American women. I'd go go through the others, but I think you've got the idea. Secondly, the author's research was done in Martha's Vineyard. The drug store and the McDonald become elite social clubs on the Vineyard. The point is that the book is about the "upper class" and mentions the organizations they're a part of not the other way around. And just as your Target on West Broadway is not the same as your Target in Edina, so it goes for civic organizations in the Vineyard vs the Midwest. More importantly, if you're going to consider this a legitimate issue, then what does that say about the founders of the NAACP or Booker and the good work he does. You can't have it both ways, either these are all elitist organizations and anyone who's a member can't be counted on to do good work, or they are merely organizations people are a part of and do not define who they are or what they will do. As for your article (and the price tag you mentioned) I can find no reference other than your writing, which I think you must agree, can't be considered fact without some form of support, but we'll run with the supposition, mentions the group being encouraged to join to support a candidate, which is not the same thing as "joining forces", but you're hardly an unbias party with an objective view. By the way this "elite social club" did a black tie fundraiser in 2002 and raised $20,000 for African American Family Services, in 2000-1 they funded the exhibition of Clementine Hunter, Louisiana's best known, self taught artist, and I believe it was just a few months back that the they selected the Jeremiah Program, which helps low income single mothers "build their future through education and personal development" as their partner and beneficiary of their 2004 annual benefit. You know, for an "elite social club" they sure seem to be doing a lot in the community. The event chair, btw, was Dr. Reatha Clark King, and if you don't know how much impact she's had on the community and how connect to the community she's been, "you'd better ask somebody". So maybe you or Booker or someone else can tell me again what the problem is with her being a part of this organization which is doing lots of things in the community? Jonathan Palmer Victory In a message dated 5/1/2004 1:51:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 4/30/2004 5:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I will ask you as I have Booker, what evidence you have for any of this? What makes it [the Links] an "elite social club"? How do you know this? What do they do that you're defining as elite? What proof do you have for your assertions that it "joined forces" to do anything? >> The Links, Boule, and Jack & Jill are among the better know organizations for upper class African Americans. Books written about those clubs for the African-American upper class include: Our Kind of People: Inside America's Black Upper Class, by Lawrence Otis Graham. In 1998 one of the qualifications for membership in the Minneapolis-St. Paul Links chapter was a 4 year college degree, the initiation fee was $1,000. In a news report about the election of Minneapolis NAACP branch officers that first appeared in the March 10-16, 1999 issue of the Pulse of the Twin Cities, I observed that, The slate headed by Jefferson, and later by Campbell received the support of an influential organization of upper-class African American women (and men) called t
