Re: [Mpls] smoking ban
The writer seems to have no problem with non-smokers having no choice in bars. Let them all stay home. What rights do the 80% have? Apparently none. What rights do smokers and tobacco companies have? Apparently, all. Let the minority kick around the majority. A tyranny of the minority. I want the ban because I and a lot of other people would like to go to bars. I like bars. I don't like smoke. If I try a smoking bar, it's not long before the smoke drives me out. The writer here would say, Fine, go home. Perhaps add, bars are by their very nature smoky; smoke and booze go together, like bribes and politicians. Nothing like claiming what you want is in the very nature of things, impossible to change. I suspect the pro-smokers hope this discussion just blows over and we sink back into smoky bars forever, and that non-smokers decline into hopelessness. Why not go for the whole enchilada, and dismiss the opposition with a snide butt-kicking jeer? --David Shove roseville On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, gemgram wrote: > I have been waiting for an appeal of my "ban" from the List, before > continuing to post, but just could not resist Eddie Felien's post. I guess > when you are addicted it truly is hard to resist temptation. > > Eddie should consider not putting his butt where someone is already swinging > his or her foot. I wonder if Eddie, and others so up on smoking bans in > bars, have ever thought to stop going into the bars where smoking is > allowed? I do not remember reading in the Southside Pride, or on the > Minneapolis Issues, where Eddie Felien was forcibly dragged into a bar > against his will and then made to breathe "Second Hand" smoke. Not having > read either for a while, I have maybe missed something? > > Recently some friends and I went into Mac's Bar, (best deal on a steak in > town) to have a steak and a diet coke or scotch as we might choose. We > found the bar was really smoky, because it was already filled with (can I > say it in public) SMOKERS. We turned right around and left to go to a > different restaurant and bar. Amazing how easy that worked. We simply chose > to put our butts somewhere where there was not already a "foot swinging". > > I was amused by the discussion of talks with Jesus and God. I am told Jesus > once instructed us that "he without sin throw the first stone". Perhaps in > this situation it might be "he without addiction, habit, or desire, throw > the first 'Ban'." I seem to remember Mr. Felien advocating for changing the > ban on cannabis farming. I also wonder how many others enjoy coffee; > sugared, or caffinated, and carbonated pop; or offensive music (rap at any > sound level is offensive to me, and may cause violent behavior in some); > etc. Such things might harm those who choose to use them, and damage others > from simply being around the users. Personally, however, I have problems > with the government banning any of these things. How would some of the ban > supporters feel if it were decreed from the 'Mount City Hall' that all > restaurant owners MUST allow smoking, since it is a legal substance? Same > powers of government and license, I would think? > > So Eddie and others who do not like smoky bars, why don't you just CHOOSE to > stay the hell out of them. Let's control smoking in public spaces so Eddie > does not have to breathe it in a public place. And who ever is forcing > Eddie to breathe it, please stop! If the City owns a bar, or if one exists > in an area where you do not have to go through doors to get into it, then I > will fully support a ban in such an establishment. Let's even enforce a ban > on drinking in public places. Heck, I personally would even support a total > ban on tobacco, before I would support a ban on a legal substance and legal > activity within a privately owned establishment. > > If you do not like smoking Eddie, just STOP doing it. A lot of us have done > that. And stop associating with those who do, and stop going into > businesses that allow smoking tobacco. Wow, personal freedom and choice, > what a concept! Of course some people just sometime wake up in a smoking > bar. Without any memory of how they got there! I only used that excuse > once with my wife. Did not work that time either, so I would advise against > it. > > So Eddie, please stop backing into other people's feet on purpose, it takes > the shine off of someone's shoe. > > Jim Graham, > Minneapolis' Sixth Ward > > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://
Re: [Mpls] Barkley's loss can be your gain
Well, Mayor - I will not be on your "night life in Minneapolis" extravaganza. Although for a very worthy cause I just can't believe you think you can go to four or five places on a bus in 2 hours and call that a party. Sounds more like trying to herd the farm cats into the barn. Anyway to get 50 people on the bus, drive to wherever, get dropped off, get in establishment, 50 people order something to drink and in 20 minutes, get back on the bus and go to the next stop. Half the people won't even have gotten in the door. Anyway four - six hours it maybe could have happened but even still that hardly allows for dancing, bathroom, have another drink and party on. Remember back to that Inaugural event you had when yes, we all got dressed up and went downtown and partied late that night. Some of us even made it into the wee, wee hours sitting at Figlio's still talking about the City and anything else on our partied out brains. I really suggest you "retool" this idea. After all, $100 should bring on a good party and for a good cause besides. It seems to warrant a little more time in planning the exact scheduling - I even have a couple of suggestions of how to actually pull it off with a few minor changes. Annie Young East Phillips who still does know how to party At 03:27 PM 6/2/04 -0500, Rybak, R.T. wrote: Who dares to tred where Sir Charles dare not walk? (FYI: I'm open to more ideas about where to take folks on the nightlife tour.) R.T. Rybak Here's the release that just went out: The tour Charles Barkley was afraid to take Join Mayor Rybak on a tour of Minneapolis nightlife,a fundraiser for Achieve!Minneapolis Background: Charles Barkley breathed a sign of relief Monday night when the Timberwolves were eliminated from the playoffs. The NBA has-been knew he did not have to face the humiliation of returning to Minnesota after ducking Mayor R.T. Rybak's challenge to join the Mayor on a tour of Minneapolis nightlife. Barkley trash-talked the city on national television during the playoffs, but grew uncharacteristically silent when Rybak challenged him to a nightlife tour of Minneapolis entertainment. Your opportunity: Barkley's loss can be your gain: You can be one of a select group of 50 who can join Mayor Rybak Friday, June 11 for the tour of Minneapolis nightlife Rybak designed for Barkley. Tentative scheduled stops include tapas at Solera, snuff at Gasthaus, Latin music at Babalu, martinis at Cosmos and dancing at First Avenue. The tour will leave Target Center at 9 p.m. in the comfort of a Jefferson Bus Lines coach, and conclude with a walk through the Warehouse District that will end at 11 p.m. Your contribution: The evening of fun is a benefit for Achieve!Minneapolis, the non profit organization that raises money and creates school-business partnerships for Minneapolis Public Schools. Your tax deductible contribution of $100 will cover all transportation and cover charges; participants will be responsible for their own drinks. The tour will be limited to the first 50 people to make reservations at the Achieve!Minneapolis office at 612-455-1530. A future opportunity: Achieve!Minneapolis is also taking reservations for two fall events conducted by the Mayor. The "Day Line" Tours, named after State Sen. Dick Day, will showcase high performing students and teachers in the Minneapolis Public Schools. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. --Donald A. Adams REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What if it weren't true? - debunked
I had to chuckle when I saw this thread start up. As a chemist and environmental scientist, I see a lot of foolishness like this. Sometimes it comes from whack jobs, sometimes from paid mouthpieces/industry fronts and sometimes just from people who may mean well, but just don't really understand what it is they're looking at. On 6/1/04 7:59 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Everyone seems to agree, though, that passive exposure to cigarette smoke > has been proven harmful. *Harmful,* mind you, not merely annoying. But there's > one little problem with this assumption. It has no basis in fact. None. Zero. > >(http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv21n4/lies.pdf) In M.G.'s case, it looks like a combination of the first two cases. I'm not picking on M.G., but rather the authors of the report cited. Robert Levy is a policy guy for that renowned medical and public health research organization, the Cato Institute. [Note: for those who aren't familiar with the Cato Institute for the Libertarian think that that it is, the preceding was sarcasm.] While Levy is well-versed in constitutional law, he has no background in science or medicine. Rosaline Marimont has little medical background either, though she reportedly is at least a scientist. She's also a prominent contributor to pro-tobacco groups, has written several essays criticizing the focus of public health groups on tobacco and has testified against local legislation in Maryland to restrict smoking in public places. But even if the authors were actually legit, here's question to consider: why should anyone accept a single report from the Cato Institute over a broad array of medical organizations that have recognized cigarette smoking as a leading cause of disease and death for at least 40 years? Here's a publication that debunks the silliness that Levy and Marimont put forth: http://www.acsh.org/publications/pubID.498/pub_detail.asp excerpt: "In this report, scientists at the American Council on Science and Health refute Levy and Marimont's key arguments (presented below) as unscientific and inflammatory. ACSH's critique concludes that the estimate of 400,000 annual deaths due to cigarette smoking is indeed reliable and may even be an underestimate." On 6/1/04 8:27 PM, "Victoria Heller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > More and more evidence is mounting that nicotine actually helps Parkinson's, > Schizophrenia and Alzheimers. Here is just one of many articles.. > > http://www.scienceagogo.com/message_board5/messages/813.shtml In Victoria's case, it would appear she just doesn't understand what she came across, which serves as a reminder that there's a lot more to doing research than just being able to surf the Web. While Victoria is right that there have been studies showing possible benefits associated with nicotine, what she apparently missed was that this has absolutely nothing to do with smoking cigarettes since the studies were conducted using nicotine patches. Here are a couple of other articles about the same study. Nicotine Patch for Memory Loss? Seniors' Memory, Focus Improved by Nicotine http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/78/95666.htm Could Nicotine Be Good For You? Doctors Say Nicotine May Help Memory http://www.wpxi.com/health/2980512/detail.html excerpt: "During happy hour, the drinks flow and so does the nicotine. Bar goers can either take a drag or drink a nicotini * the latest concoction of tobacco leaves soaked in vodka. "You've got 2 different buzzes, the nicotine buzz and the alcohol buzz!" says bar patron, C.J. Raimondi." Maybe this "nicotini" concoction could serve as a way to accommodate those needing their fix without having to expose others to harmful secondhand smoke. To adopt Mike Atherton's strategy, perhaps some enterprising brewmeister might try coming up with a tobacco-enhanced "nico-beer" for those who prefer that to the harder stuff. I'd suggest the same for wine, but even I don't have that much faith in chemistry... And just to further demonstrate my point that this researcher in no way advocates smoking, here's an article on some other work by the same fellow: Early Nicotine Use May Lead To Lasting Addiction, Study Finds http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030910073801.htm excerpt: "The brain continues to develop throughout the teenage years," Levin said. "Early nicotine use may cause the wiring of the brain to proceed inappropriately. In essence, the brains of adolescents who use tobacco may be sculpted around an addiction to nicotine." By the way, did anyone else see the Strib article about the ban that Bloomington is going to look at? http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4806654.html This is kind of keen. It not only further weakens the "don't make our city an island" argument by adding one of the higher-populated suburbs to the mix, but it also serves to weaken the "city as liberal nanny-state" argument just a little. Last time I checked, Bloomington te
Re: [Mpls] The Head Waiter v. The Mayor
Politicans are great at multi-tasking and being in as many places as they can...now finding... bouncers? who will pick up everyone else and hurl them forward to each destination on time should be a challenge. Madeline Douglass Kingfield *saving my pennies for a Segway ride around the Mills REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] smoking ban
Michael, Not very pragmatic. I think we can all aspire to a higher level of debate than this. Rick Norby Keewaydin On Jun 2, 2004, at 3:03 PM, Michael Atherton wrote: Rick Norby wrote: I do stay out of smoky bars whenever possible. I also love our local music scene which is all too often restricted to smoky bars. Should I just exclude myself from these places because of offensive and unhealthy second hand smoke? Why don't you and some friends open a non-smoking music club? If people are that interested in avoiding smoke then you should do very well. As an alternative, why not consider a boycott? There seem to be many very strongly motivated non-smokers who could help you organize. You could picket local clubs that allow smoking and discourage customers. If there really are so many people who would prefer non-smoking establishments it shouldn't take long before the clubs get the idea and convert. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] The Head Waiter v. The Mayor
Initially, I think it is a bit unfair to compare the Mayor to a head waiter, Having spent a number of years as a waiter during college and graduate school, the head waiter exercises a great deal of authority. The head waiter assigns shifts, tables and can generally make employment miserable should a person not be on board with the plan to make the restaurant successful. So to compare the Mayor with an individual who has complete authority to implement a plan is unfair. Second, it escapes my sense of time and place as to how the Mayor's tour could take in all the cited hot spots, including a walk, within 2 hours. It appears the Mayor is hesitant as to his skills when it is time to party. Lee R. Eklund Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Sir Charles did indeed compare Mayor's to head waiters
Lisa M. is correct...Sir Charles did indeed say that Mayors and head waiters are about the same to him... Margaret Hastings-Mpls-Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Pawlenty vetoes Mpls project
Sorry to be obscure, Gregory. I'm speculating that because the Minneapolis delegation didn't vote the Governor's way on any number of things (Yecke, bonding specifics, ed standards, etc.), he might have vetoed a project that would help the city. After all, there's probably a special session coming and the governor just created another chit to gain Minneapolis votes. As I said, pure speculation. David Brauer Kingfield -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregory Luce Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 4:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Pawlenty vetoes Mpls project I've been meaning to ask, despite likely showing how I may be politically well out of the loop, but just what is it payback for? I ask genuinely, as I'm scratching my head and waiting for one of those less and less frequent "Ahaah" moments. Gregory Luce St. Paul The List Manager wrote: Subject: [Mpls] Pawlenty vetoes Mpls project Would allow a transit/housing development to have a single bidder. Payback? REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Pawlenty vetoes Mpls project
I've been meaning to ask, despite likely showing how I may be politically well out of the loop, but just what is it payback for? I ask genuinely, as I'm scratching my head and waiting for one of those less and less frequent "Ahaah" moments. Gregory Luce St. Paul The List Manager wrote: Subject: [Mpls] Pawlenty vetoes Mpls project Would allow a transit/housing development to have a single bidder. Payback? http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/4806897.html REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Barkley's loss can be your gain
Lisa McDonald Writes: Actually Barkley wasn't afraid of going out with the mayor, in fact he indicated the other night at the game that he wasn't interested in going out with the mayor. I think his comment was something to the effect of "all mayors are like head waiters." (i.e. I just don't think he was the least bit interested.) Dennis Plante responds: Surely there's something that the Mayor has said that you agree with? Dennis Plante Jordan _ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Smoking Ban
Okay. I've been watching the smoking topic go back and forth and haven't said anything - yet. There have been many valid points made and I do see both sides. As a smoker, I obviously like the fact that I have a place I can go in public where I'm actually ALLOWED to smoke. I am hooked and have to adapt my addiction to the environment I am in, so I DO feel some relief when I don't have to "go outside" for a change. As a non-smoker - which I was for three months earlier this year - I can sympathize with those who don't smoke and am most certain I'll be grateful for smoke-free places when I quit. But I knew then, and I know now, that it is my choice where I go or don't go. Second hand smoke is annoying in bars - and there are some I will not frequent even as a smoker. BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE - which is the bottom line for the business owner trying to make a buck... I really do feel that this is the choice of the places I patronize though - and should be for all businesses. There has always been the choice to go "smoke free" for establishments. If anybody knows business, you go for your "audience" and unfortunately disenchant those who do not apply by choice. Therefore, if I were a business owner, having the freedom to choose or not choose who I cater to should be my option. As it currently stands, smokers have options (a public place where they can actually smoke) and the non-smokers have options (don't go there). If the band or person or whatever is you want to see is supporting the smoking venue by playing there, then go and deal with it. If the smoke is too much - and you sincerely want to see that band or person - suggest an alternate place and let that club/bar/whatever it is know that you are not coming because of the smoke. Believe me, they WILL get the message if it is strong enough. Of course, I could touch on the whole fact that crack is illegal, yet nicotine - which is more addictive than crack - is sold over the counter on a daily basis You know, the HEART of the problem. But since the govenment say it's okay to buy it OTC Shawn Marie Christenson Central - Downtown/West REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] smoking ban
--- Michael Atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ed Felien wrote: > > > Your freedom to swing your foot ends with my butt. > > Does this imply that my foot is resting on your butt? > An unpleasant thought, but maybe an apt metaphor. > Maybe you should move your butt out of range of my > foot. [TB] I'm not sure why someone should be expected to change their life because someone insists on doing something stupid, dangerous, or in the case of the kick in the ass is probably a felony. It's not just the other customers. Employers are expected to provide a safe workplace, thus various methods of keeping air clean in manufacturing plants and auto body repair shops. We recall children's toys if a single individual is killed or injured, yet no one has ever figured out a safe way to use tobacco and thousands are killed each year. Don't those working in a business serving food or alcohol deserve the same safe workplace that everyone else does? Terrell Brown Loring Park __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Barkley's loss can be your gain
Actually Barkley wasn't afraid of going out with the mayor, in fact he indicated the other night at the game that he wasn't interested in going out with the mayor. I think his comment was something to the effect of "all mayors are like head waiters." (i.e. I just don't think he was the least bit interested.) Lisa McDonald East Harriet - Original Message - From: Rybak, R.T. Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 3:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Barkley's loss can be your gain Who dares to tred where Sir Charles dare not walk? (FYI: I'm open to more ideas about where to take folks on the nightlife tour.) R.T. Rybak Here's the release that just went out: The tour Charles Barkley was afraid to take Join Mayor Rybak on a tour of Minneapolis nightlife,a fundraiser for Achieve!Minneapolis Background: Charles Barkley breathed a sign of relief Monday night when the Timberwolves were eliminated from the playoffs. The NBA has-been knew he did not have to face the humiliation of returning to Minnesota after ducking Mayor R.T. Rybak's challenge to join the Mayor on a tour of Minneapolis nightlife. Barkley trash-talked the city on national television during the playoffs, but grew uncharacteristically silent when Rybak challenged him to a nightlife tour of Minneapolis entertainment. Your opportunity: Barkley's loss can be your gain: You can be one of a select group of 50 who can join Mayor Rybak Friday, June 11 for the tour of Minneapolis nightlife Rybak designed for Barkley. Tentative scheduled stops include tapas at Solera, snuff at Gasthaus, Latin music at Babalu, martinis at Cosmos and dancing at First Avenue. The tour will leave Target Center at 9 p.m. in the comfort of a Jefferson Bus Lines coach, and conclude with a walk through the Warehouse District that will end at 11 p.m. Your contribution: The evening of fun is a benefit for Achieve!Minneapolis, the non profit organization that raises money and creates school-business partnerships for Minneapolis Public Schools. Your tax deductible contribution of $100 will cover all transportation and cover charges; participants will be responsible for their own drinks. The tour will be limited to the first 50 people to make reservations at the Achieve!Minneapolis office at 612-455-1530. A future opportunity: Achieve!Minneapolis is also taking reservations for two fall events conducted by the Mayor. The "Day Line" Tours, named after State Sen. Dick Day, will showcase high performing students and teachers in the Minneapolis Public Schools. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mplsGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Barkley's loss can be your gain
Who dares to tred where Sir Charles dare not walk? (FYI: I'm open to more ideas about where to take folks on the nightlife tour.) R.T. Rybak Here's the release that just went out: The tour Charles Barkley was afraid to take Join Mayor Rybak on a tour of Minneapolis nightlife,a fundraiser for Achieve!Minneapolis Background: Charles Barkley breathed a sign of relief Monday night when the Timberwolves were eliminated from the playoffs. The NBA has-been knew he did not have to face the humiliation of returning to Minnesota after ducking Mayor R.T. Rybak's challenge to join the Mayor on a tour of Minneapolis nightlife. Barkley trash-talked the city on national television during the playoffs, but grew uncharacteristically silent when Rybak challenged him to a nightlife tour of Minneapolis entertainment. Your opportunity: Barkley's loss can be your gain: You can be one of a select group of 50 who can join Mayor Rybak Friday, June 11 for the tour of Minneapolis nightlife Rybak designed for Barkley. Tentative scheduled stops include tapas at Solera, snuff at Gasthaus, Latin music at Babalu, martinis at Cosmos and dancing at First Avenue. The tour will leave Target Center at 9 p.m. in the comfort of a Jefferson Bus Lines coach, and conclude with a walk through the Warehouse District that will end at 11 p.m. Your contribution: The evening of fun is a benefit for Achieve!Minneapolis, the non profit organization that raises money and creates school-business partnerships for Minneapolis Public Schools. Your tax deductible contribution of $100 will cover all transportation and cover charges; participants will be responsible for their own drinks. The tour will be limited to the first 50 people to make reservations at the Achieve!Minneapolis office at 612-455-1530. A future opportunity: Achieve!Minneapolis is also taking reservations for two fall events conducted by the Mayor. The "Day Line" Tours, named after State Sen. Dick Day, will showcase high performing students and teachers in the Minneapolis Public Schools. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Fantasy Group Needs New Members: Above the Falls Citizen Advisory Committee
On Wed Jun 2 11:35:23 CDT 2004 Dyna Sluyter dyna at unions-america.com wrote: On Wednesday, June 2, 2004, at 10:17 AM, Svattheriver at aol.com wrote: So could we Northsiders make these decisions ourselves without the inevitable meddling of the more gentrified neighborhoods who think they know what's best for us? It's one thing to stick up for the Northside, it's another to be so parochial that we can't allow that the whole City should have some input, perhaps even a larger group. Of course, I oppose the use of eminent domain if the existing residents and businesses refuse to relocate willingly. But it's Minneapolis, so I fully expect to be disappointed in this regard. However, as far as the plan goes, anyone whose taxes may be affected by this plan deserves to have input into the plan. Major Benefits of Plan Implementation 90 acres of new park While the Park Board can't afford to maintain what they already have. Sounds like a plan to expand Weed Park upriver... 15 milesof bike lanes and recreational trails Again, where will the $$$ come to maintain this? This is a very good question. Already this year I have ridden on a great deal of the city park bikeways and found that they are seriously undermaintained in most cases. The roads are in much better shape. 5.25 miles of parkway and boulevard To nowhere... The existing 2nd Ave stretch from downtown to 44th is hardly a road to nowhere. I use it every day to commute by bicycle, and many many others use it by car or bike to get to the Camden neighborhood or highway 94. My concern here is that this nice wide road will be replaced by parkway and cyclists expected to ride on those sidewalks masquerading as bikeways. I have ridden somewhat along various parkways in the City of Minneapolis this year, and they are vastly inferior to normal roads. I often end up on the alleged bike path as a result of the poor road design. The so-called bikeways are not much of an alternative. They are posted with a 10 MPH limit, which is a ridiculously low speed for all but beginners, children, and people who are really just lazing along. The paths are frequently used by joggers, dog-walkers(!), and others who are no way moving fast enough to be on a bikeway. Throw in surface faults that would not last long on the roadway and you have an extremely non-bike-friendly "bike path". So serious cyclists ride on the road, which-- in the case of the city parkways-- is very poorly designed to handle them. The lanes are far too narrow to fit car and cyclist (legal passing distance is three feet to the right) and the roads are full of curves, banks, and often lined with trees that impede sightlines-- further impairing the ability to pass. In spite of the posted 25 MPH speed limit, none of the motorists are actually going that slowly. So this makes the problem even worse. In fact, going downhill a lot of serious cyclists shouldn't be getting passed at all, as speeds from 20 to 30 MPH are common. The rest of the city's streets are great for cycling, by the way. Frequently the roads are nice and wide and the drivers quite courteous. The only thing that would make things better is a total ban on on-street parking. But the parkways are a completely opposite experience. Here even the best, most polite drivers will have their mettle tested when it comes to dealing with cyclists. Contrast the poor engineering of Minneapolis' parkways with that of St. Paul's, which I had the joy of riding on this past weekend. In St. Paul they do have the sidewalks/bikeways, but they also have a nice three or four foot lane on the side of the parkway, specifically for bikes. Perhaps not all of St. Paul's parkways are this pleasant, I only rode from the U of MN campus, East Bank to where Highway 5 crosses the river by Fort Snelling, but to see this bike lane in action was proof (to me) of something I've been wishing Minneapolis had done. Our parks are a tremendous asset, so it's unfortunate that the parkways are so poorly engineered. Any plans for new parkways or for renovating existing parkways should include bike lane considerations, especially if there's going to be any change to or reduction in the surrounding bike-friendly roadways. I would hate to see 2nd Ave N (for all its big, noisy vehicles and sandy, debris-laden surface areas) taken away and replaced by parkway similar to that found just between the river and all the new condo development just north of the Falls. - Michael Libby, a cyclist in the Cleveland neighborhood, www.andsoforth.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messa
Re: [Mpls] Re: Group Needs New Members: Above the Falls Citizen Advisory Committee
Dyna Sluyter wrote: The Upper Harbor Terminal has- I think 5 employees- and is a financial drain on the City. Because it has been neglected and poorly managed. Or maybe because it is not economically viable. Whether it should be closed or not is a much larger question. Indeed it is- communities all over western Minnesota rely on Port of Minneapolis as an outlet for their crops. We need alliances with those communities at the legislature, and closing the Port will produce such ill will that those outstate legislators will seek revenge against Minneapolis for years to come. BTW, have any of your board members ever followed the river down to the last lock? Or followed the railroads that feed Port of Minneapolis out to the Dakotas? I have, but I'm just a dumb working stiff that needs smart people like your board to decide stuff for me... The Upper Harbor, and even any part of the City of Minneapolis as a major river shipping port was a completely ludicrous and bankrupt idea which unfortunately did not die before we finally built the silly thing. This had been a pipe dream since the late 1800s. The city, state and federal tax payers have poured billions of dollars down this rat hole, and we get under-utilized 2-unit barges in return. The sane and economically reasonable thing to do is send all that cargo a few miles further by rail or truck to St. Paul. The 3 locks upriver from St. Paul are there simply so Minneapolis can say "me too" when it comes to having a river port, rather than for practical reasons. I'd like to know just how many of those out-state communities Dyna refers to are actually economically dependent to any degree on cargo shipped to Minneapolis and then downriver via the Upper Harbor? If there actually is a significant number of them, then her point is valid -- politics being what it is. Our transportation infrastructure is a disaster, blown this way and that by special interests and political favors. It ought to be designed (and built) using some sort of organized, rational, larger-view planning including all the stakeholders and market forces, instead of as a series of pork barrel favors for which ever construction company has the best lobbyists. Regardless of the outcome of any sort of transportation infrastructure utopia, I think the days of the Upper Harbor are pretty much numbered. It just doesn't make sense to try and put that much barge traffic down the river gorge unless we want to spend billions to turn it into a uniformly wide and deep canal with gentle bends that large barges can navigate. How many want that? Let's see a show of hands. Chris Johnson / Fulton REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] smoking ban
Rick Norby wrote: > I do stay out of smoky bars whenever possible. I also love our local > music scene which is all too often restricted to smoky bars. Should I > just exclude myself from these places because of offensive and > unhealthy second hand smoke? Why don't you and some friends open a non-smoking music club? If people are that interested in avoiding smoke then you should do very well. As an alternative, why not consider a boycott? There seem to be many very strongly motivated non-smokers who could help you organize. You could picket local clubs that allow smoking and discourage customers. If there really are so many people who would prefer non-smoking establishments it shouldn't take long before the clubs get the idea and convert. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] smoking ban
Jim, I do stay out of smoky bars whenever possible. I also love our local music scene which is all too often restricted to smoky bars. Should I just exclude myself from these places because of offensive and unhealthy second hand smoke? I also thought that the efforts to legalize hemp for agriculture was related to it's many "nonsmoking" uses. Rick On Wednesday, June 2, 2004, at 01:51 PM, gemgram wrote: I have been waiting for an appeal of my "ban" from the List, before continuing to post, but just could not resist Eddie Felien's post. I guess when you are addicted it truly is hard to resist temptation. Eddie should consider not putting his butt where someone is already swinging his or her foot. I wonder if Eddie, and others so up on smoking bans in bars, have ever thought to stop going into the bars where smoking is allowed? I do not remember reading in the Southside Pride, or on the Minneapolis Issues, where Eddie Felien was forcibly dragged into a bar against his will and then made to breathe "Second Hand" smoke. Not having read either for a while, I have maybe missed something? Recently some friends and I went into Mac's Bar, (best deal on a steak in town) to have a steak and a diet coke or scotch as we might choose. We found the bar was really smoky, because it was already filled with (can I say it in public) SMOKERS. We turned right around and left to go to a different restaurant and bar. Amazing how easy that worked. We simply chose to put our butts somewhere where there was not already a "foot swinging". I was amused by the discussion of talks with Jesus and God. I am told Jesus once instructed us that "he without sin throw the first stone". Perhaps in this situation it might be "he without addiction, habit, or desire, throw the first 'Ban'." I seem to remember Mr. Felien advocating for changing the ban on cannabis farming. I also wonder how many others enjoy coffee; sugared, or caffinated, and carbonated pop; or offensive music (rap at any sound level is offensive to me, and may cause violent behavior in some); etc. Such things might harm those who choose to use them, and damage others from simply being around the users. Personally, however, I have problems with the government banning any of these things. How would some of the ban supporters feel if it were decreed from the 'Mount City Hall' that all restaurant owners MUST allow smoking, since it is a legal substance? Same powers of government and license, I would think? So Eddie and others who do not like smoky bars, why don't you just CHOOSE to stay the hell out of them. Let's control smoking in public spaces so Eddie does not have to breathe it in a public place. And who ever is forcing Eddie to breathe it, please stop! If the City owns a bar, or if one exists in an area where you do not have to go through doors to get into it, then I will fully support a ban in such an establishment. Let's even enforce a ban on drinking in public places. Heck, I personally would even support a total ban on tobacco, before I would support a ban on a legal substance and legal activity within a privately owned establishment. If you do not like smoking Eddie, just STOP doing it. A lot of us have done that. And stop associating with those who do, and stop going into businesses that allow smoking tobacco. Wow, personal freedom and choice, what a concept! Of course some people just sometime wake up in a smoking bar. Without any memory of how they got there! I only used that excuse once with my wife. Did not work that time either, so I would advise against it. So Eddie, please stop backing into other people's feet on purpose, it takes the shine off of someone's shoe. Jim Graham, Minneapolis' Sixth Ward REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] FW: COHR: Gather signatures and get paid!
To join this list, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the command subscribe cohr Example: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: doesn't matter subscribe cohr *** Next canvass meeting: When: Sunday, June 6, 6-8pm Where: 3 E. 25th St. # 8, Minneapolis, (25th & Nicollet Ave. S) Major canvass events: Friday, June 4 National Medical Marijuana Day of Action Sat. & Sun., Jun. 5-6 Red Hot Art, Stevens Square See below for meeting points and details *** COHR is proud to announce that beginning Friday, June 4th we will begin paying canvassers to gather signatures on the official petition to qualify the medical marijuana question for Minneapolis November 2004 ballot. Effective canvassers can make $7 to $10 per hour or more! Interested? Send your name and phone number to [EMAIL PROTECTED], or call us at (612) 872-0040, and we will contact you with more information ASAP. Dear Supporters, The campaign to provide safe access to medical marijuana in Minneapolis is charging forward. Over 2,500 signatures have been collected, and the petition drive is in full swing. But only ten weeks are left until the August 10th submission deadline, and we need your help now! This Friday we will be in Downtown Minneapolis to participate in a National Medical Marijuana Day of Action. In addition to gathering signatures from Minneapolis residents, we will also be encouraging suburban residents to contact their representatives in Congress and tell them to vote yes on an important upcoming floor vote to protect medical marijuana patients. If you can help with this effort, please contact Jason Samuels ASAP at (612) 872-0040 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Saturday and Sunday, June 5-6 COHR will be sending canvassers to the Red Hot Art exhibition in Stevens Square Park. Clipboards and pamphlets can be picked up between 11am and 12pm at the Spyhouse Café, 2451 Nicollet Ave S (25th & Nicollet). Contact Jason at (612) 872-0040 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sunday evening, June 6th 6-8pm, our weekly meeting to collect petitions, strategize, and train new canvassers will take place at: 3 E. 25th St. Apt. 8 Minneapolis, MN 55404 6pm: Petition collection time and informal strategy session for the upcoming week. 7pm: New canvasser training, discussion of materials in the canvassing package, signature collection workshop. Contact Jason at 612-872-0040 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] for directions. COHR needs 7,774 valid signatures from registered Minneapolis by August 10, 2004 to qualify the question for this November's ballot. With your help we will reach our goal. Sincerely, Jason Samuels Administrative Coordinator Citizens Organized for Harm Reduction P.O. Box 80726 Minneapolis, MN 55408 (612) 872-0040 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:://www.cohr.org UPCOMING MINNEAPOLIS EVENTS The following community events are suggested places to meet people and gather support for drug policy reform. If you know of any upcoming festivals, political rallies, neighborhood garage sales to add to this calendar, or if you would like petitions and pamphlets to bring to these events, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** = Priority Event, Canvassers Needed! *** Friday June 4 National Medical Marijuana Day of Action 11am-4pm Downtown Minneapolis, Federal Building, 3rd & 3rd Friday June 4 Democratic Presidential Candidate John Kerry 10am University of Minnesota Northrop Mall *** Jun 5-6 -- Red Hot Art Sat., noon to midnight Sun., noon to 7:00 pm Stevens Square Park 18th St and Stevens Ave., 612.230.6400 Sun. June 6th Independent Media Fair 1-5pm Spirit of the Lakes Church 13th Ave. & Lake St. June 5 -- Armatage neighborhood Garage Sale 8 a.m.-4 p.m., maps at 2500 W. 57th St. or http://www.armatage.org, 612-668-3206. June 5 -- Audubon neighborhood Garage Sale 8 a.m.-5 p.m., maps available at 2852 NE. Johnson St., 612-706-8688. June 5 -- East Calhoun Community Organization Garage Sale 9 a.m.-4 p.m., maps at each site between W. Lake and 36th Sts., and Hennepin Av. to E. Calhoun Pkwy., 612-824-9200. June 5 -- Logan Park neighborhood Garage Sale 9 a.m.-4 p.m., near Broadway and Monroe Sts. NE., 612-370-4927. June 5 -- Victory neighborhood Garage Sale 9 a.m.-5 p.m., maps at each site, west of Victory Memorial Dr., 612-529-9558. Sat., Jun 6 DFL HHH Day Dinner, keynote speech: James Carville 6pm cocktail hour, 7pm dinner Tickets: $90 ($50 refundable through state PCR program) 11 E Kellogg Blvd. Radisson Riverfront Hotel Minnesota Ballroom (downstairs), St. Paul, 651-251-6384. Mon., June 14 Peter McWilliams Memorial Rally 11:30am-12:30pm Courtyard of the Federal Courthouse across from city hall downtown Minneapolis contact: Jason Samuels. (612) 872-0040 --- Working to reduce the harms associated with drugs and drug policy. Citizens Organized for Harm Reduction P.O. Box 80726 Minneapolis, MN 55408
Re: [Mpls] smoking ban
I have been waiting for an appeal of my "ban" from the List, before continuing to post, but just could not resist Eddie Felien's post. I guess when you are addicted it truly is hard to resist temptation. Eddie should consider not putting his butt where someone is already swinging his or her foot. I wonder if Eddie, and others so up on smoking bans in bars, have ever thought to stop going into the bars where smoking is allowed? I do not remember reading in the Southside Pride, or on the Minneapolis Issues, where Eddie Felien was forcibly dragged into a bar against his will and then made to breathe "Second Hand" smoke. Not having read either for a while, I have maybe missed something? Recently some friends and I went into Mac's Bar, (best deal on a steak in town) to have a steak and a diet coke or scotch as we might choose. We found the bar was really smoky, because it was already filled with (can I say it in public) SMOKERS. We turned right around and left to go to a different restaurant and bar. Amazing how easy that worked. We simply chose to put our butts somewhere where there was not already a "foot swinging". I was amused by the discussion of talks with Jesus and God. I am told Jesus once instructed us that "he without sin throw the first stone". Perhaps in this situation it might be "he without addiction, habit, or desire, throw the first 'Ban'." I seem to remember Mr. Felien advocating for changing the ban on cannabis farming. I also wonder how many others enjoy coffee; sugared, or caffinated, and carbonated pop; or offensive music (rap at any sound level is offensive to me, and may cause violent behavior in some); etc. Such things might harm those who choose to use them, and damage others from simply being around the users. Personally, however, I have problems with the government banning any of these things. How would some of the ban supporters feel if it were decreed from the 'Mount City Hall' that all restaurant owners MUST allow smoking, since it is a legal substance? Same powers of government and license, I would think? So Eddie and others who do not like smoky bars, why don't you just CHOOSE to stay the hell out of them. Let's control smoking in public spaces so Eddie does not have to breathe it in a public place. And who ever is forcing Eddie to breathe it, please stop! If the City owns a bar, or if one exists in an area where you do not have to go through doors to get into it, then I will fully support a ban in such an establishment. Let's even enforce a ban on drinking in public places. Heck, I personally would even support a total ban on tobacco, before I would support a ban on a legal substance and legal activity within a privately owned establishment. If you do not like smoking Eddie, just STOP doing it. A lot of us have done that. And stop associating with those who do, and stop going into businesses that allow smoking tobacco. Wow, personal freedom and choice, what a concept! Of course some people just sometime wake up in a smoking bar. Without any memory of how they got there! I only used that excuse once with my wife. Did not work that time either, so I would advise against it. So Eddie, please stop backing into other people's feet on purpose, it takes the shine off of someone's shoe. Jim Graham, Minneapolis' Sixth Ward REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] MPS Superintendent Search Update
The Minneapolis Public Schools Board of Education continues to be on-track in their search for the next Superintendent. As they have moved through the process, the Board has valued the extensive input that the community provided this past winter about the qualities the community would like finalists to have and the criteria the Board should use when selecting them. (You can read a summary of the input here: http://www.mpls.k12.mn.us/Superintendent_Search) Now as the Board approaches the end of the process, the decision of who will be finalists, and ultimately who will be chosen as the next superintendent, is the sole responsibility of the Board of Education Directors. The Board plans to name finalists next week at a press conference that will be televised live on cable channel 15 (Minneapolis Time Warner). At that press conference, a time for the community to meet and participate in a moderated discussion with the finalists will be announced. It is the hope that this meeting will be broadcast live on Channel 15, with replays on KBEM radio/Jazz 88. Immediately following the press conference, finalists names and biosalong with information on the public meetingwill be released on the districts Web site, KBEM/Jazz 88 and Channel 15; and shared through the districts multiple e-mail and communications lists. The process will move quickly once finalists are named. If you have a question that you would like a finalist to be asked, you are invited to e-mail it now to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call 612-668-0230. We'll keep you posted. -- Melissa Winter Communications Department 612.668.0228 www.mpls.k12.mn.us Minneapolis Public Schools. We Inspire Learning. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Disappointed with Doug Grow on Spike Moss
I may be viewed strangely for asking the following questions, but I am going to ask it anyway. Spike Moss, I know you are an active community voice. My queries: How much of what you do publicly is out of your responsibility to your employer and its programs, as opposed to just being who you are as a private citizen concerned about your community? IF what you do publicly keeps you active and in the public light, but neglectful of your everyday job responsibilites, what do you feel should be the way it should be dealt with? What should be done to strike a workable balance, if any is to be found? List Members, If the aforementioned questions should prove to be what tipped the scale (and I am NOT saying that they are), why would one accuse the community of "turning on its own?" It is not always a case of not enough funding to go around, sometimes it is a matter of ethics. It would seem, then, that a community organization is trying to be responsible to its clients and the job for which it was created, which is unlike what a lot of nonprofits and big companies are doing these days. IF that is the case, I fail to see the problem with that. Linnea Anderson was right on target. Before funders will give up their money, they want to see how responsible one is with what they have. Potential Funders, Those of you out there who have money to save Mr. Moss' job, consider whether you are funding his The City Inc. job or his job personal one as a community consultant/liaison. And please, make sure the public knows the difference. Thanks, Pamela Taylor (Florida, but who has plenty family in Minneapolis) Shawn Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A victim of funding I was profoundly disappointed by Doug Grow's May 28 column about Spike Moss' relationship with The City Inc. As a former City Inc. employee and a current nonprofit employee, I take offense at the portrayal of Fred Easter's decision as cowardly. Most likely, Easter's decision is reflective of the current funding climate, where programs and employees of nonprofits that aren't clearly accountable simply aren't funded. Easter's decision, given the inevitable community response, was anything but cowardly. As Grow acknowledged, Moss is loved and loathed in about equal numbers. He is valued by some in his community, by the media and by the police chief, but scrutiny of the funders of The City Inc. would most likely reveal that none value him enough to pay for him. It is sad that the community turns on its own in these situations when the real villain, if there is one, is a much more restrictive and conservative funding climate. Linnea Anderson, St. Paul. http://www.startribune.com/stories/563/4801000.html Posted by Shawn Lewis, Field Neighborhood -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Fantasy Group Needs New Members: Above the Falls Citizen Advisory Committee
On Wednesday, June 2, 2004, at 10:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I welcome interest and debate concerning the Above the Falls Master Plan. And debate is badly needed- the plan is clearly the work of an insular group of planners with no budget concerns whatsoever. The seat I was elected to is as a neighborhood representative of all the neighborhoods in the Mississippi Watershed (formerly the Middle Mississippi Watershed). It is the largest geographic area represented, so I really appreciate this forum as a way of communicating. So could we Northsiders make these decisions ourselves without the inevitable meddling of the more gentrified neighborhoods who think they know what's best for us? Major Benefits of Plan Implementation 90 acres of new park While the Park Board can't afford to maintain what they already have. Sounds like a plan to expand Weed Park upriver... 15 milesof bike lanes and recreational trails Again, where will the $$$ come to maintain this? 4 miles of restored riverbank Does your committee even know where the original riverbank is? 5.25 miles of parkway and boulevard To nowhere... 2,500 housing units in new riverfront neighborhoods Affordable if you make over $100,000 a year 2,000 net additional jobs lost. Where are these new jobs going to come from? If you'd looked at the plan you'd see that it calls for leveling block after block of businesses. Do you have commitments from any business that will move here to replace the jobs your plan will eliminate? Over $10 million in additional annual tax revenue Probably lost when we take tax paying property and turn it into park land. Dyna says: AFCAC doesn't represent, " the thousands of ordinary working folks that will lose their jobs if the plan is ever implemented." AFCAC is a really interesting group of people that does include the people that Dyna say are excluded. For example there are members from American Iron, La Farge Corporation, Marshall Concrete and Aggregate industries who are representing heavy industry. They represent business, not workers... sorry, but you're republican platitudes won't fly here. As for blue collar workers and ordinary working folks they are represented on the board by myself and others. The Teamsters, AFSCME, UTU, BLE, IBEW, APWU, LUINA, and several other unions have thousands of members who work along the upper river, Which of these unions and their members do you represent? The Upper Harbor Terminal has- I think 5 employees- and is a financial drain on the City. Because it has been neglected and poorly managed. There is a current study about what to do when and if the Harbor Closes. I think that it can be closed if there is a place to dump dredge spoils. There is a lot more moving at Port of Minneapolis than dirt- have you ever been there? Whether it should be closed or not is a much larger question. Indeed it is- communities all over western Minnesota rely on Port of Minneapolis as an outlet for their crops. We need alliances with those communities at the legislature, and closing the Port will produce such ill will that those outstate legislators will seek revenge against Minneapolis for years to come. BTW, have any of your board members ever followed the river down to the last lock? Or followed the railroads that feed Port of Minneapolis out to the Dakotas? I have, but I'm just a dumb working stiff that needs smart people like your board to decide stuff for me... Housing-, our metro population is predicted to increase by one million in the near future. And they can't afford the luxury condos along the river your plan envisions. Dyna says: "This plan is years old and that has yet to happen... says something of the interest in said plan." There is interest and funding. To name a few: There is the Grain Belt Complex with a great new library on the river. The wonderful North Interpretive Center and Park. That was a separate project. GAF received a grant to implement a more environmentally friendly presence on the River. Given that the plan calls for leveling GAF, is this a waste of money or admission that the plan is being abandoned? Close architects are putting the final touches on plans for trail and park improvements for Skyline Park and the western shoreline between the Plymouth and the BN bridge. As if the Park Board could afford it. There is funding for major stormwater improvements in the Hawthorne neighborhood. And if my block is leveled for that where will I and my neighbors find affordable housing? Hopefully your park will at least have some picnic shelters for us to sleep under... There is a masterplan and a funding for Edgewater Park (Gluek park is an unfunded tragedy) So how can we afford to develop Edgewater park when we can't even afford to fence off, never mind decontaminate, Gluek Park? There is an Army Corps Plan for pool one (this area) that would greatly improve the healt
RE: [Mpls] smoking ban
Ed Felien wrote: > Your freedom to swing your foot ends with my butt. Does this imply that my foot is resting on your butt? An unpleasant thought, but maybe an apt metaphor. Maybe you should move your butt out of range of my foot. > Your freedom to smoke ends with my being forced to > breathe it in a public place. How am I forcing you to breathe in a particular public place? Take a look at the photo of the Amsterdam Café again: http://www.umn.edu/~athe0007/images/Cafe1.JPG There are many of these small cafes in the Red Light District, why would you go into one if you were worried about smoke? Why can't people be allowed to sit comfortably have a coffee, a smoke, and a newspaper? No one is forced, there are no feet on butts, only butts in ashtrays. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Where is the light-rail vision?
> Street, move existing ramps, and widen the freeway > from eight to ten lanes > from downtown to Crosstown/Hwy. 62. 35W is 6 lanes from 62 to 46th or so. Once it turns to 8 lanes, heading north for example, two lanes terminate downtown while two lanes continue through as 35W. So in reality, you really only have 2 lanes if you use the road from the south to get downtown and 2 lanes if you use the road to get through the city. John Harris webber-camden __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Fantasy Group Needs New Members: Above the Falls Citizen Advisory Committee
I welcome interest and debate concerning the Above the Falls Master Plan. Dyna Sluyter asks some important questions. My reply is not an official response from the Above the Falls Citizen Advisory Committee. I am speaking for myself as one member of a large committee. The seat I was elected to is as a neighborhood representative of all the neighborhoods in the Mississippi Watershed (formerly the Middle Mississippi Watershed). It is the largest geographic area represented, so I really appreciate this forum as a way of communicating. In a message dated 6/1/04 11:48:34 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dyna says- (This is a thirty year plan) "That will only cost a couple billion dollars to implement." The Plan both costs money and generates money. The plan addresses jobs and cost benefits. Are the predictions accurate and too optimistic? That can and should be debated. But the Plan does address those issues: Major Benefits of Plan Implementation 90 acres of new park 15 milesof bike lanes and recreational trails 4 miles of restored riverbank 5.25 miles of parkway and boulevard 2,500 housing units in new riverfront neighborhoods 2,000 net additional jobs Over $10 million in additional annual tax revenue > Dyna says: AFCAC doesn't represent, " the thousands of ordinary working folks that will lose their jobs if the plan is ever implemented." AFCAC is a really interesting group of people that does include the people that Dyna say are excluded. For example there are members from American Iron, La Farge Corporation, Marshall Concrete and Aggregate industries who are representing heavy industry. As for blue collar workers and ordinary working folks they are represented on the board by myself and others. The Upper Harbor Terminal has- I think 5 employees- and is a financial drain on the City. There is a current study about what to do when and if the Harbor Closes. I think that it can be closed if there is a place to dump dredge spoils. Whether it should be closed or not is a much larger question. Housing-, our metro population is predicted to increase by one million in the near future. Dyna says: "This plan is years old and that has yet to happen... says something of the interest in said plan." There is interest and funding. To name a few: There is the Grain Belt Complex with a great new library on the river. The wonderful North Interpretive Center and Park. GAF received a grant to implement a more environmentally friendly presence on the River. Close architects are putting the final touches on plans for trail and park improvements for Skyline Park and the western shoreline between the Plymouth and the BN bridge. There is funding for major stormwater improvements in the Hawthorne neighborhood. There is a masterplan and a funding for Edgewater Park (Gluek park is an unfunded tragedy) There is an Army Corps Plan for pool one (this area) that would greatly improve the health of the river. There is an additional 11.2 million dollars from the Mississippi Watershed Management Organization 10 year capital improvement plan slated for the Above the Falls Plan. There is 1.9 million from the National Park Service MNRRA area which includes the AFCAC area. I will try to address Dyna's other comments in an other email. Thanks, Scott Vreeland Seward REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Tyranny in Minneapolis?
I appreciated Gail's comments (last name? neighborhood?) about the smoking ban issue. I am also conflicted about the notion of a smoking ban, because i cannot imagine Gandolf or the hobbits without pipe and pipeweed. I also hope to inject a little humour to defray the tension -- at least it does for me. Discussion in democracy can be painful. Most 'muricans would rather just shrug off the responsibility to engage in such discussion. democracy is just too hard. Citizenship is seen as a drag by most folks. I find citizenship to be intimidating and enlivening. To the point: a smoking ban is seen by many as "tyranny in Minneapolis." That lovely old dinosaur (CS Lewis referred to himself as a dinosaur, I call him lovely) and Inkling CS Lewis has been trotted dutifully out into this fray posthumously. Lewis and fellow inkling JRR Tolkien loved pub, pipe, port and tea. all of these things were brought into their comfortable existance coutesy of the genocidal tyranny of the British Empire. There are plenty of good reads available to help one understand just how much blood was shed to put sugar in the tea of our dear icons of English literature and religion. Go to the WHO website to read the articles there about poverty and tobacco. BBC news reports that Norway has joined Ireland in nationwide smoking bans for bars and restaraunts -- nationwide tyranny, what? People of CS Lewis' generation entered into smoking with more naivete than we do. Furthermore, the tyranny which provided "good" English dons the foundation of a very comfortable life is also nearly universal in human history. Of course, a young upstart nation revolted against the waning British empire some time back, and proceeded to conduct a campaign of terror and genocide which stained the ground under the streets of Minneapolis red with blood. Names like "Hiawatha Avenue" and "Minnehaha Parkway" are strange monumants to real tyranny: oil-soaked asphalt over bloodstained ground. Our comfortable existence in Minneapolis is founded upon the continuing extension of "Manifest Destiny" around the world. Our parochial hubris is like that of CS Lewis -- very much a man of his patriarchical time. We see our relative wealth as normal and as a result of hard work and good clean (Christian?) living. Nothing could be further from the truth. One difference between CS Lewis (and his Inkling companions) is that we live in a nation that supposedly stands not for "Empire" but for the overthrow of tyranny and the democratization of life for everyone. The violence at the heart of our American Empire -- and of Minneapolis -- is all about depleted uranium and weapons of mass destruction, and is all about taking what makes us comfortable regardless of our impact on the planet or other people Our religious leaders and political leaders have a vested interest in disguising this reality from us. Wealth, power, and prestige depend upon keeping us multiply addicted and seeing how many created cravings we can scramble to fill. Good "producer-consumers" are rotten citizens. We are too afraid of losing our jobs, our money, and our security -- all of which tie us to tyranny like golden chains. We are too busy glutting on the world's resources to consider our impact on even our own children. That seems more like tyranny to me than a smoking ban. The American Jesus has many forms. I've seen Him driving around Minneapolis in a Hummer, chomping cigars, listening to Rush Limbaugh and enjoying the "pranks" of our Imperial troops at Abu Ghraib. Rape and torture are not only fun for this Jesus, but they are also needed to maintain the "full spectrum dominance" we enjoy here in America. Tyranny in Minneapolis? We may see it more directly and more clearly, but it will not be in the form of any smoking ban. It is coming in the form of more budget cuts in education and social services, and in the growing gap between rich and poor. It is coming as we put our children deep into debt for an infrastructure of violence -- more roads and less transit in an age of diminishing energy recources and increasing demand. It is coming to Minneapolis as our politicians put our children into debt for stadiums for millionaire and billionaire sports clubs while the urban landscape devolves into increasingly enclosed campuses for the rich and neglected wastelands for the poor. Welcome to the New World Order, Minneapolis. The smoking ban is not about tyranny. Smoking, on the other hand, has been intimately bound with tyranny in many ways. --pedaling off tfrom Kingfield to meet the Divine in Minneapolis, and earn a living, tooGary Hoover REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ___
[Mpls] smoking ban
Your freedom to swing your foot ends with my butt. Your freedom to smoke ends with my being forced to breathe it in a public place. Ed Felien Powderhorn REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Where is the light-rail vision?
Minneapolis may not consider itself on par with the likes of Washington, D.C. but the city of lakes would be wise to learn from the example of our nations capital. During the Johnson Administration, metropolitan Washington, D.C. faced a critical decision about its traffic-clogged highways: would it opt for a subway system to move about its two million residents or would it choose the more conventional path of tearing up its central city to construct more roads? Ultimately, leaders there recognized that the regions population would surge and roads would not suffice to meet future growth. They committed themselves to a vision that was daring but practical: a 98-mile subway system. Forty years later, the Twin Cities is in a similar situation. Its population is nearly 50 percent larger than when metropolitan Washington, D.C. leaders committed themselves to constructing a subway system. The regions 2.9 million people are literally stalled in traffic. As commuters waste hours each week crawling in cars on our regions highways, they lose time that could be better spent at home relaxing with family. Traffic and the time spent in it are often cited as one of the top factors affecting ones quality of life. Nonetheless, entities like the Taxpayers League of Minnesota, Wells Fargo, Allina, and Lt. Gov. Carol Molnau are dedicated to paving more land to relieve traffic tie-ups. One of the states largest construction projects is slated for the Lake Street interchange with Interstate 35W. Wells Fargo and Allina are driving the $460 million plan to build new ramps at Lake Street, move existing ramps, and widen the freeway from eight to ten lanes from downtown to Crosstown/Hwy. 62. Moreover, plans outlined in 1991 to build light-rail transit in the median of 35W have been abandoned by Metropolitan Council Chairman Peter Bell. Its time for Minnesota leaders to listen and realize that roads are NOT the answer to alleviating the regions congestion. The Twin Cities is too populous to continue pushing for more highway construction, which destroys communities, impairs air quality, and continues to leave cars stranded in a sea of traffic. Instead, it is time to create a vision for the regions transportation needs that goes well beyond a 12-mile light-rail line between downtown Minneapolis and the airport. Just as Washington, D.C. did, the Twin Cities should build a system of several light-rail lines, which serve as spokes radiating from the regions two central cities. This structure allows not only urban and suburban residents to easily work and play in each others backyard, but it also allows those same citizens to work and shop in a suburb on the other side of the metro area. Building light-rail transit in the median of 35W from downtown Minneapolis to the southwest suburbs, the states fastest growing region, would be a sensible beginning. Some of the tens of thousands of cars that flood 35W each day could be pulled off the road and negate widening the freeway through Minneapolis core. Another practical location for light-rail is University Avenue between downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul. Business interests support this initiative and the Minnesota Senate included $5.25 million in its bonding bill to study the feasibility of rail on the corridor. Connecting the two central cities on an underutilized and sometimes forgotten thoroughfare makes sense. The Twin Cities is the countrys fifteenth largest metropolitan area, and its population continues to grow. Lets hope that our leaders finally embrace this reality and accept that a light-rail system is neither too expensive nor beyond the Twin Cities needs. The Twin Cities is an attractive and prosperous region, one which should not see its growth stifled because of an outdated dependence on roads. -Sean Wherley, Kingfield _ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
