[Mpls] IRV will help ensure endorsement

[Steve Cross]

Tony Solgård said:
... the way to use IRV in the endorsement process ... is to use the 
instant runoff mechanism
on the first ballot to narrow the field to two candidates.  ... the 
convention proceeds to a second ballot
with those same two candidates and continues as DFL conventions 
normally do.

In this version of IRV, it doesn't sound much different from the present 
method of multiple ballots to endorse someone.  The only difference is 
that the DFL's current procedure doesn't eliminate everyone other than 
the top two finishers after just one ballot.  Now, it takes several 
ballots before the winnowing starts taking place.   And I 'm not so sure 
that slower winnowing isn't better than "instant" winnowing.

And, frankly, from the delegates perspective, I think most support one 
person and don't really start thinking of who else might be okay until 
it becomes evident that their candidate isn't drawing anymore votes.  I 
think it's going to require a complete change in mind-set to say on the 
first ballot that someone else other than his or her most-favored 
candidate is okay too.  That's why slow winnowing may be better.  (Speed 
may not be all that it's cranked up to be.)

There's also the issue of how to handle the "no endorsement" option.  Is 
"no endorsement" always an option on all ballots -- including the first 
one?  And what happens if "no endorsement" comes in a poor fourth (or 
19th) on the first ballot?  Is it permanently eliminated or does it 
somehow revive to be added back in on later ballots?  (I think it has to 
be an option on the first ballot because "no endorsement" might be 
everyone's 2nd preference rather than any of the other candidates.)  
And, even on later ballots, does "no endorsement" have to win by the 
same 60% as a regular candidate?  (Or, alternatively, is it a separate 
procedural motion that makes for two processes going on simultaneously: 
the balloting and the procedural issue of when to give up and go home.)

And, I still think that in a convention format it's a different world 
than in an election at the polls.  And in an election you've got 
machine-readable ballots and computers to do all the calculations.  And, 
what's more, you have all night to get the results.  In a convention, 
the process of counting, probably recounting (for second or third 
choices for ONLY selected ballots), and calculating the results is going 
to take forever -- and there are several hundred impatient people 
waiting for the results.

I think that IRV may have some points to consider for elections.  
However, for a convention with a requirement of an extra-ordinary 
majority, it's being stretched to cover something that it wasn't 
designed to cover.

Steve Cross
Prospect Park
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[Mpls] Re: Tifft Invited to KFAI Debate

[Lehman, Matthew J.]

I am writing in response to Andy Ansell's March 1 post regarding KFAI-FM's
alleged failure to invite 8th ward City Council candidate Dennis Tifft to
participate in its February 28th debate.
 
I have obtained an e-mail from "Conversations with Al McFarlane" staff
member Lauretta Dawolo which indicates that Dennis Tifft was invited to
participate in the debate.  The e-mail was sent on February 25 to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   and other
candidates.
 
This evidence refutes both Ansell's post and the letter to KFAI-FM cited in
the post.  
 
I encourage campaigns citywide to check all possible e-mail accounts.  This
will not only ensure that they respond to potential voters but also that
false claims, like those in Ansell's post, are not leveled against anyone.
 
Matt Lehman
Columbia Park
NE Minneapolis
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RE: [Mpls] car theft

[Lehman, Matthew J.]

Thank you for the post about auto thefts in the 2nd precinct.  I have heard
that auto thefts have become an increasing problem in other precincts within
the city.
 
The 2nd precinct released a crime alert update on Monday of this week.  It
reads:
 
Crime Alert Update:  This morning officers found three individuals inside 
a vehicle in the car lot at 2636 Central Avenue NE.  Two of the individuals 
were juveniles, and one, David Arthur Norton, was a young adult.  If you 
would be interested in writin a community impact statement to be submitted 
to the courts regarding auto theft, you can send a copy to me at: 
 
Carol Oosterhuis 
2nd Precinct 
1911 Central Ave NE 
Minneapolis, MN  55418 
 
Please follow Emilie's advice below and any other common sense measures to
protect your car from being stolen.

Matt Lehman
Columbia Park
NE Minneapolis

  _  

From: Emilie Quast [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Fri 3/4/2005 4:11 PM
To: mpls@mnforum.org
Subject: [Mpls] car theft

The 2nd precinct (NE and SE Mpls.) has had a rise in auto theft.  When I 
looked at the website to see the full report, I found the following 
paragraph.  If everyone but me already knew about this program, I'm sorry, 
but it is news to me. 

"If you do not drive your car between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m., consider the Watch 
Your Car program. Vehicle owners sign a consent form, which allows police 
to stop the vehicle without cause if it is being driven between specified 
hours. You register at the local police precinct. It's a great deterrent to 
auto theft! " 

Here's the URL: 

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crimealert/021120.asp#TopOfPage
  

Emilie Quast 
SE Como 


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RE: [Mpls] Smoking Ban

[ergreenbaum]

I have also lived many places including overseas and don't particularly find 
Minneapolis any more inflexible than other places. As a matter of fact I used 
to work in Bloomington - talk about regulations and rigidity!!! Minneapolis 
seems like a piece of cake in comparison.

As far as the smoking ban - The funny thing to me is, this issue seems like a 
piddly gripe session compared to much bigger civil liberties issues of which 
people should really be talking about.

A totally different way of looking at it is that we are way ahead of the curve. 
Minnesota has been known for it's progressive attitudes, laws, and policies in 
general and proud of it. It is also known to have some of the healthier 
populations and envious health care facilities nationally. New York City has 
gone smoke free, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island - and apparently 26 
other states, or parts of them, are considering going smoke free. I was 
visiting family in New York a while back and it was great! - and you know what? 
people are doing just be fine with it. 

Liz Greenbaum
Longfellow



"Betsy Wenker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>My problem with the no-smoking ban is once again the chipping away of personal 
>individual freedoms. 
>
>I have lived all over the United States and have been here about ten years. I 
>find this town to be inflexible and exceptionally "rule oriented."  I find it 
>ironic that some of our European puritanistic ancestors fled to the "New 
>World" to escape inflexible rules & regs back in England and France - I guess 
>their descendants are making up for it now.
>
>Elizabeth Cohen









-- 
Elizabeth Greenbaum
Director
ArtiCulture
www.articulture.org
612.729.5151 


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[mpls] DFL Ward 2 Candidate Forum

[Elizabeth Wielinski]

  A public question and answer forum for all three DFL Candidates 
seeking the DFL endorsement for the Ward 2 City Council seat being 
vacated by Councilman Zerby will be held on Tuesday March 22nd at 
7:00pm at the Van Cleve Recreation Center, 901 15th AV SE Minneapolis.  
 For more information contact Harrison Nelson at 612-378-5377.

Liz Wielinski
Columbia Park
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RE: [Mpls] The long sobs of the violins (of the DFL machineparticularly in PP)

[Michael Atherton]

 
Tim Bonham wrote:

>  Yes, DFL "honchos" do support the DFL-endorsed 
>  candidate chosen by the DFL delegates.
>  Of course!  Why should that be puzzling, or 
>  frustrating, or at all hard to understand?
>  
>  Who do you expect DFL party officers to support other than 
>  DFL-endorsed candidates?

The ones they endorse themselves...like Councilmember Zerby?

Michael Atherton
Prospect Park






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[Mpls] Smoking Ban

[Betsy Wenker]

My problem with the no-smoking ban is once again the chipping away of personal 
individual freedoms. I'm an asthmatic nonsmoker - always have been - but I take 
exception with this city regulating smoking in privately owned (albeit public) 
businesses. If I were a business owner of a small pub or bar, I sure wouldn't 
want the government telling me that my customers couldn't smoke there. I agree 
with Michael that if one doesn't want to inhale second hand smoke then don't go 
there.

I'm also agree that we can't be comparing the murder of ~6 million people to 
municipal problems, however there are some similarities in the mentality of 
officials here in Minneapolis and mid-century Germany. About 25 years ago I 
worked for a wonderful German Jewish man who escaped from Nazi Germany in 1939. 
The only times I saw him lose his cool was when he was up against the IRS (he 
was a CPA) - then he would go crazy about "The Rules, The Rules, The Rules". He 
couldn't stand bureaucratic control - I guess he lived a bit of it trying to 
navigate for his life. 

I have lived all over the United States and have been here about ten years. I 
find this town to be inflexible and exceptionally "rule oriented." I have often 
used the analogy of this town's officials as being "a bunch of Nazis" when I 
hear about some new plan to limit or regulate. I find it ironic that some of 
our European puritanistic ancestors fled to the "New World" to escape 
inflexible rules & regs back in England and France - I guess their descendants 
are making up for it now. 

Elizabeth Cohen





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RE: [Mpls] IRV will help ensure endorsement

[Jeanne Massey]

Forwarded by Jeanne Massey from Tony Solgard:

As I see it, the way to use IRV in the endorsement process (with a 60
percent supermajority requirement) is to use the instant runoff mechanism on
the first ballot to narrow the field to two candidates. If this results in a
candidate with 60 percent support, then you’ve got a first ballot
endorsement. If not, the convention proceeds to a second ballot with those
same two candidates and continues as DFL conventions normally do. “Normal”
usually involves a rules negotiation over the number of ballots that must be
taken before either a vote for “no endorsement” or for adjournment is in
order. So, the convention doesn’t have to endorse if it doesn’t want to. And
the convention still has the option of pushing a 55 percent candidate over
the 60 percent threshold on the next ballot. But the process is expedited so
you don’t have to sit through 6 ballots when you could condense the process
into just one ballot or two ballots and come to the same outcome.


Tony Solgård, President
FairVote Minnesota
(and Seward resident)



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[Mpls] Help protect our majestic elms! Free Elm Tree Care Workshops for Neighborhoods

[Sean Gosiewski]

With the mild winter, experts predict a second high year for Elm Tree loss
in the Twin Cities.  We have have about 10,000 mature elms left in
Minneapolis.  If we work together neighborhood volunteers and local tree
care experts could protect 2,000 or more additional healthy elms from Dutch
Elm Disease this June. Please publicize these four FREE Elm Tree Care
workshops, March 29 & 30 and April 2 & 4 through your neighborhood
newsletters, email lists and meetings.

Sean Gosiewski, Corcoran Neighborhood, 612-331-1099 x 1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Free Elm Tree Care Workshops for Neighborhoods and Block Clubs March 29, 30,
and April 2, & 30, 2005

Sponsored by the Minneapolis Tree Advisory Commission, Alliance for
Sustainability and Tree Trust

Details at www.allianceforsustainability.net and www.treetrust.org

Free Workshops for Twin Cities community volunteers who want to work for a
healthy urban forest on their block and in their neighborhood, with a focus
on preventing the spread of Dutch elm disease.

 Tuesday March 29th 7pm to 9pm Burroughs Elementary Auditorium 1601 West
50th Street Minneapolis, MN 55419

 Wednesday March 30th 7pm to 9pm - Logan Park Gym 690-13th Ave NE
Minneapolis, MN 55413

 Saturday, April 2nd 10am to Noon   Minnehaha Academy, North Campus, Campus
Room 3100 West River Parkway Minneapolis, MN 55406

 Monday April 4, 2005, 6pm, St. Paul Student Center 2017 Buford Ave, St.
Paul Campus MN 55105 "Dutch Elm Disease & How to Handle One of Histories
Worst Tree Epidemics" (fundraiser $10 in advance, on how to save a tree that
has recently become infected and how to choose good replacement trees.) Uof
MN Urban Forestry Club.  Registration and information online at:
http://www.cnr.umn.edu/FR/extension/

Saturday, April 30th, Living Green Expo, MN State Fair Ground,
www.livinggreen.org

Why:
- Neighborhoods that want to protect elms for this season must start
injecting trees by early June.
- Our urban forests provide multiple benefits for neighborhoods including:
increasing property values, reducing energy costs, reducing storm water run
off, providing habitat, strengthening business districts

What you will learn at the free workshops:
Tree Care professionals, U of M Extention tree care advisors and volunteers
from neighborhoods that have organized successful elm tree protection
campaigns will inform you about how to:
-  Do an inventory of elms in  your neighborhood or on your block
-  Raise money through creative fundraisers to inoculate trees
-  Work with licensed tree professionals, certified arborists or
trained community volunteers to inoculate healthy elms to protect them
-  Set up a system for keeping the trees protected in future years,
-  Plant, water and mulch new trees.

For Further Information Contact:
Sean Gosiewski, Alliance for Sustainability  612-331-1099 x 1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
,
Janette Monear, Tree Trust,   651-644-5800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ,
Lorrie Stromme Minneapolis Tree Advisory Commission 612-673-2003
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Details available at www.treetrust.org and at
www.allianceforsustainability.net





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Re: [Mpls] The long sobs of the violins (of the DFL machine particularly in PP)

[Tim Bonham]

Finally, I well recall Zerby's being frustrated by zero support from DFL
honchos and hacks as he ran against the DFL-endorsed candidate . . .
Bob Johnson
Cedar-Riverside West Bank
W2-P10
Yes, DFL "honchos" do support the DFL-endorsed candidate chosen by 
the DFL delegates.
Of course!  Why should that be puzzling, or frustrating, or at all hard to 
understand?

Who do you expect DFL party officers to support other than DFL-endorsed 
candidates?

Somehow I just don't get the logic here!
Tim Bonham, Ward 12, Standish-Ericsson
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[Mpls] Lady Polars seek to three-peat

[Mark Snyder]

The Lady Polars of Minneapolis North won their state tournament semifinal
game today over Sartell-St. Stephen by a score of 44-31. They will now go on
to play Holy Angels this Saturday at Target Center with a 6:30 pm tipoff.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/526/5285365.html

It would be great to see a packed house cheering on the local team as they
will be playing to win their third straight Class 3A state championship!

Mark Snyder
Windom Park
Minneapolis North class of 1990

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Re: [Mpls] Rain Barrels?

[Mark Snyder]

On 3/10/05 5:53 PM, "Constance Nompelis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Does anyone know if the city is going to give discounts on the storm water
> bill for using rain barrels?

I did not see any mention of rain barrels as an option in the stormwater
utility fee credit manual, so I'm guessing no. If I'm right, I hope that
could be reconsidered because some properties are limited by fencing and
other barriers that prevent installing rain gardens where downspouts are
located. Rain barrels are a good alternative in those cases.

> I don't have the cash for a green roof, and I don't get the engineering of a
> rain garden, but rain barrels are easy and I've been meaning to start
> harvesting the rain water for gardening anyway.

Rain gardens are really not that hard. They're basically perennial gardens
and a good local resource for learning more about them is the Marcy-Holmes
Rainwater Resource Recycling project

http://www.marcy-holmes.org/projects/rainwater/3.html

I went on a walking tour last year and saw examples of how rain gardens,
rain barrels, green roofs and pervious paving were used by different
homeowners. Pretty exciting!

Mark Snyder
Windom Park

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[Mpls] Rain Barrels?

[Constance Nompelis]

Does anyone know if the city is going to give
discounts on the storm water bill for using rain
barrels?

I don't have the cash for a green roof, and I don't
get the engineering of a rain garden, but rain barrels
are easy and I've been meaning to start harvesting the
rain water for gardening anyway.

Connie Nompelis
West Phillips, soon off to Powderhorn...





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RE: [Mpls] IRV will help ensure endorsement

[Melendez, Brian]

Greg Abbott wrote, "I don't think IRV fits in a DFL endorsing
convention right now. First, an endorsement requires 60 percent, not 50
percent. It's not clear to me how IRV would work in a super-majority
situation. Standard IRV says the lowest vote getter's votes are
reallocated according to preference until someone gets above 50 percent.
In a 60 percent situation, however, I could see that leading to having
only 2 candidates remaining, one with 58 percent, the other 42 percent,
for example. At that point, should candidate B's votes be reallocated to
see if candidate A can get over 60 percent?  Lastly, I suspect that
the rules of the DFL would have to be amended in order to permit IRV (or
so I've been told). The only body with the authority to do that would be
the City Convention (assuming -- a big if -- that we wouldn't have to go
through the state DFL central committee). A ward convention cannot amend
the city DFL rules on its own. This raises the specter of a DFL
endorsement obtained through IRV being declared invalid, and having to
do the convention over entirely."

[BRM] Greg's very thoughtful post raises some issues that I have
been wondering about too.

I don't think the issue is that the City DFL Party's
constitution, bylaws, or other rules would need to be amended in order
to accommodate instant-runoff voting. Nothing in those documents
inherently prohibits instant-runoff voting or any other alternative
voting system. The issue, as far as I can tell, is that an endorsement
takes a supermajority of 60 percent. (That provision comes from the
State DFL Constitution, so neither a ward convention, nor the City
Central Committee, nor even a City Convention can change it.) And I'm
not aware of any system of instant-runoff voting that can satisfy that
requirement.

I too favor instant-runoff voting. I served for several years on
the FairVote Minnesota board (http://www.fairvotemn.org/), and I wrote
my law-school dissertation on preferential voting. I hope that the City
DFL Party, the City of Minneapolis, and the State of Minnesota will
adopt it *for elections that occur by simple majority*. The City Party
could, for example, elect its officers using instant-runoff voting.

But I don't know of any IRV-type system that works when the
threshold for election is greater than a simple majority. If, as in
Greg's example, you impose a drop rule against a candidate with 40
percent or more, then you have effectively circumvented the
60-percent-for-endorsement requirement, if only one candidate is left
standing and that candidate got less than 60 percent. I don't believe
that such a process satisfies the requirement that an endorsement takes
a supermajority of 60 percent.

I can imagine an IRV-type system that narrows the field to two
or more candidates. But I can't imagine an IRV-type system that will
reliably result in a single candidate with a supermajority of 60
percent. I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, if someone can
illustrate such a system, but absent such an illustration then I don't
see how a convention can adopt an instant-runoff-voting system and still
comply with the rule that an endorsement takes a supermajority of 60
percent.

BRM

Brian Melendez, Chair,
  Minneapolis DFL Party
Lowry Hill (Ward 7)

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Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis Inspections

[steven meldahl]

Mark,
Sure, no problem.  The Kangaroo Court hearing is March 24 at 9:30 am at the 
PSC.  But I would not waste my time coming to this hearing because these are 
a joke.  The hearing officers (who claim to be attorneys) are hired by the 
inspections department to supposedly hear the evidence and give an impartial 
verdict, but all that they do is "rubber stamp" the assessment.  So what 
happens is after it is assessed, I file an appeal in District Court, where I 
have never lost a case on the merits in these types of assessments. If you 
want, anf if I remember, I will let you know when I make my summary judgment 
motion to have this and any others dismissed for the 2005 calendar year. 
This will not happen until mid 2006 at the earliest.

But back again to the ordinance.  According to your logic, any time a rental 
property owner of single family homes has a vacancy (and we all have 
plenty), we are expected to notify the inspections department and pay $400 
once the vacancy hits the 5 day threshold.  So if a tenant moves out on the 
15th of the month, and I have it rented for the 1st of the following month, 
I would still have to notify inspections and send them a check for $400. 
Again get real!

Steve Meldahl
Jordan (work)
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Minneapolis Issues Forum" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis Inspections


On 3/9/05 7:30 AM, "steven meldahl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lets get "real".  We have the highest vacancy rates in Minneapolis in my 
35
years in business.  I have 6 vacant houses that have been sitting vacant 
for
between 1 and 3 months.  I have my rental licenses on all of them.  So 
are
you saying that I should also notify the City because the rental market 
is
so soft and register these remodeled houses and pay the $400 because I 
can
not get them rented??  In essence this is double taxation because I still 
am
paying the exorbitant taxes on them. Are you also saying that because
someone is not sleeping at a house that we are working on 6 days a week
between the hours of 8 am and 5 pm, that we should also pay the $400? 
Again
"get real".
Yes, let's get real.
Here's the situation as I see it. Please feel free to correct me if I am
wrong.
There is a city ordinance requiring registration of vacant houses.
You violated it and got cited by Minneapolis Inspections.
Now you're pissed at Minneapolis Inspections because they did their job,
which is to enforce city ordinances and cite property owners who violate
them, even when the property owner thinks it's a dumb ordinance.
Have I got that right? If so, I hope you'll keep us posted on when your
court hearing is because I would love to be there to see what kind of
reaction you get from the judge when you plead not guilty by reason of the
ordinance being dumb. I'll bet that would be worth the vacation time I'd
have to take.
Again, if you think the ordinance is dumb, then get together with your
fellow landlords and property rights activists and work to change the
ordinance. But please don't expect the rest of us to feel sorry for the 
fact
that you got cited. I kind of doubt there are very many of us who want an
Inspections Department that looks the other way whenever a property owner
chooses to ignore ordinances they disagree with, whether it's a landlord 
or
a homeowner.

As to the merits of the ordinance itself, I have mixed feelings. I can see
the value in registering vacant residential buildings, especially the part
about having a plan and timetable for getting the building up to code and
occupied again. Otherwise, it's too easy for vultures or wannabe landlords
to come in and buy an abandoned property on the cheap and have it end up
sitting vacant indefinitely while they wait for the market to change or 
get
their act together and actually fix up the property.

However, I have to admit that I'm curious about the $400 registration fee
and I'd personally like to know more about just what that pays for. If I
recall correctly, reinspection fees are only $100 when someone fails to
address a citation, so I'm wondering how much more actual work is involved
with tracking these vacant buildings?
Mark Snyder
Windom Park
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Re: [Mpls] IRV will help ensure endorsement

[Greg Abbott]

Personally I'm a big supporter of IRV.  Adopted city-wide, I think it 
would have positive effects and reduce the temptation for candidates or 
their supporters to engage in negative campaigning (negative campaigns 
work because two-candidate races, like city general elections, are a 
zero-sum game, what hurts one candidate helps the other despite 
negative feelings which attach to the candidate who starts throwing the 
mud).

I don't think IRV fits in a DFL endorsing convention right now.  First, 
an endorsement requires 60 percent, not 50 percent.  It's not clear to 
me how IRV would work in a super-majority situation.  Standard IRV says 
the lowest vote getter's votes are reallocated according to preference 
until someone gets above 50 percent.  In a 60 percent situation, 
however, I could see that leading to having only 2 candidates 
remaining, one with 58 percent, the other 42 percent, for example.  At 
that point, should candidate B's votes be reallocated to see if 
candidate A can get over 60 percent?

I raise this hypothetical because under the standard rules, in a 
two-candidate race where candidate A gets to 58 percent, it is 
virtually certain that he/she gets over 60 percent on the next ballot.  
The truth of the matter is that a large majority of convention 
delegates want an endorsement and would willingly change their 
preferences in order to achieve an endorsement.  In my experience, 
getting into the high 50's quickly leads to endorsement (the rare 
exception to this IIRC was the Kress-Niziolek Ward 10 convention).  And 
IRV, as it stands now, would not permit that.  I would oppose any 
formulation of IRV for the DFL that would prevent convention delegates 
from switching their preferences to achieve an endorsement.

Secondly, there are practical matters relating to tabulation of 
ballots.  Having served several times as head teller at DFL conventions 
in the past, I understand and can quickly implement reliable, 
verifiable counting procedures under the standard rules. To be sure, 
reliable procedures to hand tabulate an IRV ballot exist, or can be 
created, but at this point neither I nor anyone else in the DFL has 
done it.  I would hate to be a candidate going through this process in 
the first place - the uncertainty and possibility for error would be 
much higher than usual.

Lastly, I suspect that the rules of the DFL would have to be amended in 
order to permit IRV (or so I've been told).  The only body with the 
authority to do that would be the City Convention (assuming -- a big if 
-- that we wouldn't have to go through the state DFL central 
committee).  A ward convention cannot amend the city DFL rules on its 
own.  This raises the specter of a DFL endorsement obtained through IRV 
being declared invalid, and having to do the convention over entirely.

In short, I think IRV is great.  I would like to see it adopted by the 
DFL.  However, adopting IRV as a short-term response to the rules 
dispute in Ward 2 is both unwise and (likely) against the existing 
rules.

What I would be willing to do is this:  I can chair a study group to 
examine IRV and propose amendments to the city rules which would permit 
use of IRV in future conventions.  Ideally, we could come up with a set 
of standard IRV rules, parallel to the existing standard rules, and 
then future conventions could adopt IRV or the old rules as they see 
fit.  We could also discuss and recommend tabulation procedures.  As a 
delegate to the city convention, I can move to amend the rules to 
conform to what the study group recommends.

I'm too far removed from Ward 2 to have a candidate preference.  The 
political scientist part of me would like Ward 2 to rush into an IRV 
situation, just to see what happens.  But the former DFL official in me 
smells a train wreck in the making.  It would bad for the DFL to 
experiment with IRV under these circumstances: at the last minute and 
under partisan pressure from assorted camps to manipulate the rules to 
their advantage.

Greg Abbott
Linden Hills
On Mar 9, 2005, at 3:36 PM, Elizabeth McCann wrote:
Dan Miller and his campaign fully support the use of an Instant Runoff
Voting process (IRV) to ensure a fair, accurate and efficient system to
select a candidate for endorsement at our Ward 2 convention on April
9th.
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Re: [Mpls] The long sobs of the violins...

[Barbara Lickness]

Mr. Johnson, are you suggesting that violations of
occupancy limits should have been ignored? If you
don't like the current ordinances dictating occupancy
limits work to change them but a violation is a
violation. I expect the inspectors to enforce all of
them not just pick and choose based on public outcry. 

While I am not attempting to speak for Council Member
Zerby here I suspect that after the fire over there he
received a great many calls complaining about he
general substandard condition that many of the
properties rented by students at the U of M were in. I
know it has crossed my mind several times and I am
just a passerby. 

It is common knowledge that the rental rates over in
that area are skyhigh for properties that are very old
and in substandard shape because of their proximity to
the U. While I understand that the consumer dictates
what the market will bear in terms of rental rates, I
do expect the structures to be in qualify for an
occupancy certificate according to the current housing
ordinances. 

I am sure not many students are focused on that issue,
but I am sure their parents are or were during that
time. I am thinking many of them were the ones calling
Paul's office.

Barb Lickness
Whittier 

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change 
the world.  Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
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[Mpls] The long sobs of the violins...

[Bob Johnson]

[Cross wrote]:
I debated a while on whether to say anything about this.  Perhaps it's 
the voice of a fringe that everyone understood as just that so that no 
response was required.  While only at the distant periphery of events at 
that time, I think it needs to be recalled that three people died in a 
fire back then.  And the result was the safety sweeps to try to prevent 
another disaster.  Anyone who thinks that there was anything else going 
on in conducting the safety sweeps other than concern for the safety of 
the students is sadly mistaken.

[Johnson responds]:
The three students who died in the fire were not victims of 
overoccupancy, but the
sweeps mainly pursued violation of occupancy limits. 

Go to your own neighborhood newspaper, "Southeast Angle", page 4, Dec03, 
for
an article titled, "Renters left out in the cold?", which in paragraph 5 
reports: 
"JoAnn Velde, city housing inspections director, said most violations 
cited in the
sweeps so far were for occupancy limits."

The house fire was in September 2003.
Try again, Mr. Cross.  The efforts to keep students out of your 
semi-gated Prospect
Park enclave have gone on too long.  Those efforts bring back memories 
of housing
discrimination as it was practiced in the 1950s and 1960s. 

Bob Johnson
Cedar-Riverside West Bank
W2/P10
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[Mpls] City Hangs Up on County's 911 Merger

[Craig Cox]

City Hangs Up on County's 911 Merger
Responding to last-minute union pressure and spurning what some 
called "nebulous" potential savings, the City Council voted today to 
upgrade its own 911 system rather than continue studying a proposed 
merger with Hennepin County's emergency communications operation.

For the whole story, visit: 
--
Craig Cox
Founder/Editor
The Minneapolis Observer
www.mplsobserver.com
612/721-0285
Support the independent media! Pick up your neighborhood newspaper!
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[Mpls] 2005 FREE Workshops on Rain Gardens with Native Plants

[Joyce Vincent]

2005 FREE Workshops on Rain Gardens with Native Plants

Free Native Perennial Grants Worth $50

The Minneapolis Blooms Program (formerly Blooming Boulevards) of the Committee
on Urban Environment (CUE) will conduct a series of FREE spring workshops on
how to create rain gardens using native perennial plants, with a grant from
the Mississippi Watershed Management Organization (MWMO). The early spring and
late spring workshops will be in two parts. All gardeners are welcome to
attend.

The first workshop (Part A) in each series will include orientation as to what
the watershed is, why it is important, and how appropriate gardening can help
protect our river and lakes from polluted rainwater runoff and snowmelt.  It
will include garden design and native plant information.  The Part A Workshop
will also be presented at the Minneapolis Blooms Day recognition and
educational event on Saturday, April 30, 9am - 1pm at the Nokomis Community
Center, to which the public is invited.

 The second workshop (Part B) in each series will include hands-on design help
for each gardener from landscape architect interns, working with small groups
of gardeners.  Gardeners will bring their ideas on the area of their yard to
be worked on and will get advice on garden design, how to divert water runoff
to their garden, and the types of native plants to use for their particular
area--shady, sunny, wet, or dry. During this workshop, Minneapolis gardeners
in the MWMO area will be given a $50 Native Plant Grant form, so they can buy
native plants for their rain garden and get reimbursed for the first $50. The
grants will be given on a first-come, first-served basis, as we have only
$7,000 available for the grants.

The workshops will be conducted from 6:30 - 8:30 pm in the following park
community centers, in each quadrant of the city.

NORTH
Farview Park Community Center, 609-29th Av. No., Minneapolis
Monday, March 21, Part A
Monday, April 4, Part B
Tuesday, April 26, Part A
Tuesday, May 10, Part B

NORTHEAST
Logan Park Community Center, 690-13th Av NE, Minneapolis
Thursday, March 24, Part A
Thursday, April 7, Part B
Thursday, April 28, Part A
Thursday, May 12, Part B

SOUTH
Nokomis Park Community Center, 2401 E. Minnehaha Pkwy., Minneapolis
Tuesday, March 29, Part A
Tuesday, April 12, Part B
Saturday, April 30, Part A (11 am), Minneapolis Blooms Day
Tuesday, May 3, Part A
Tuesday, May 17, Part B

SOUTHWEST
Linden Hills Park Community Center, 3100 W. 43rd St., Minneapolis
Thursday, March 31, Part A
Thursday, April 14, Part B
Thursday, May 5, Part A
Thursday, May 26, Part B

To register or for more information,
contact Laura Wieland, Program Assistant, Minneapolis Blooms Program,
612-673-3014, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
or contact Joyce Vincent, Co-Chair, Minneapolis Blooms Program, 612-623-0157,
or e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Minneapolis Blooms Program of the Committee on Urban Environment  (CUE)
City Hall, 350 S. 5th Street, Minneapolis, MN 55415


Sincerely,
Joyce Vincent, Co-Chair
Minneapolis Blooms Program of the
Committee on Urban Environment (CUE)
Home Address:  38 7th Avenue NE
Minneapolis, MN  55413-1804
Phone:  612-623-0157
Fax:  612-623-7823
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[Mpls] No Professional Phone Call Pledge

[Derek Burrows Reise]

As a delegate, I  personally would not put much stock
in a candidate's pledge not to use professional
phoners.

While I am always more impressed by candidates who
have the preference, level of support and
sophistication necessary to rely on volunteer phone
banks, sometimes hiring out the job is necessary for a
campaign.

What's clear in Nikki's example though, is that the
Mayor needs to find a better phone vendor.  Hopefully
for his sake, a vendor who is not going to turn people
away from RT because of over-aggressive or other
unprofessional practices.  Maybe the RT campaign can
hire an in-state vendor at least, and employ some
Minnesotans.  I'm pretty sure 910 is a North Carolina
area code.

I'm a delegate, and have yet to receive a single
post-caucus phone call.  (Nothing on my caller ID
either.)  Maybe my number was mistyped on the delegate
list.  I can only hope...

Derek Burrows Reise
Longfellow - Where the anticipated onslaught of
political phone calls have yet to begun.





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[Mpls] UPCOMING ENVIRONMENTAL EVENTS - Mark your calendars

[CAROL KUMMER]

FYI  to all -
 
DUCK, WETLANDS AND CLEAN WATER RALLY - Saturday, April 2, 2005 - Capitol
Mall, St. Paul -- Rally begins at 10:00 AM; formal program begins at
1:00 PM.  Go to www.startribune.com/anderson  for background and
additional links.
 
11th ANNUAL EARTH DAY CLEAN-UP - Saturday, April 23, 2005 - a
collaborative effort between the Park Board, City of Mpls Public Works
and 13 neighborhoods.
9:30 - 11:00 AM - Clean up. (for a list of the sites, go to
www.minneapolisparks.org.
11:00 - 2:00 PM - Environmental Fair at Nokomis Community Center, 2401
E. Minnehaha Pkwy.  Information booths, activities for kids, music and
refreshments.
 
A couple of opportunities to help our Mother,
 
Carol Kummer, Commissioner and candidate
Park District 5
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[Mpls] RE: No Professional Phone Call Pledge

[Brian Hanf]

What these campaigns need to do is get a handle on the phone banking
companies, about attempted calls, make sure the calling many times in a 1-2
hour period doesn't happen.

I don't know how many delegates there are, but the few hours in the day that
volunteers can call doesn't get the job done, if you do the math. They have
to have professionals do calling for them.

Math: Guess of 300 delegates per ward (about 30 per precinct), 5 person's
(35 volunteers per week) phone banking 2.5 hours a day 6 pm to 8:30 average
of 3 minutes per call 15.6 nights that assumes you get everyone the first
time (generally you call a list 3 times) so assuming you get 33% the first
time (15.6 nights), 33% the 2nd (10.4 nights), and 33% the third (7 nights),
(33 days)when is the convention? (Still leaves about 1000 delegates not
contacted).

Do the math for the general election and they really need the pro's calling
for them.



Brian J Hanf
Edina
www.trailblz.com
Sales 1-800-446-1375
Support 1-866-909-8700
Support 1-952-988-0898

Subject: [Mpls] No Professional Phone Call Pledge
To: "'Barbara Lickness'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Greetings.

As someone who has worked on, and continues to work on, local campaigns, I
understand the importance of phone calls to delegates, both by the
candidates and from volunteers on behalf of the candidates.  However, I get
very annoyed by calls from professionals, whether they are for political
candidates or commercial enterprises.

I propose that the candidates for local office pledge to stop using
professional telemarketer calls.  If Mayor Rybak or Commissioner McLaughlin
wish to call me and chat, I'd love to talk with them directly.  If
volunteers for either of them wish to call, that's fine, too.  I've made
those calls in the past for candidates and I've had some great
conversations.  However, the automatic dialing described by folks on this
list is annoying.  If people on the delegate lists are getting these calls
already (and I got some before the caucuses), we're in for a long couple of
months.

Since, at this point, these are only going out to DFL delegates, this may
discourage people from doing the caucus thing.  Let's not give people more
reasons to refrain from participating, folks.  

Although political calls seem to be exempt from the do-not-call lists, there
is no reason why the candidates can't voluntarily agree to refrain from this
activity.

So, how about it, RT and Peter?  Who will be the first to take the No
Professional Telemarketer Phone Call pledge?  I'm sure that the NPTPCP will
be a big hit with the delegates.  If you both do it, we (those of us who are
DFL delegates) will be very grateful.  I'll look for the City Council
candidates to chime in, too, although I don't think any of them are guilty
of this at this point.

Take the pledge!

Fighting for a clear phone line in South Minneapolis - 

Jon Lewis
Lyndale





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[Mpls] Drunken Donkey Race: The Mayoral Campaigns

[Dyna]

	Shortly after John Kerry's campaign managed to snatch defeat 
from the jaws of victory local political blogger Shawn Towle of 
checksandbalances.com properly assessed the blame- Poorly run 
campaigns manufactured by a growing industry of consultants, 
telemarketers, political ad agencies, and just plain hacks.  Despite 
a history of losing elections to the republicans this same "industry" 
keeps getting rehired for campaign after campaign. Is it no wonder 
they don't even care if they win or lose because they get paid either 
way?

	Robocalls and telemarketers having failed to elect John Kerry 
one would have thought this failed strategy would have been properly 
despatched to the political junkyard. But remember, this is a 
business run by unimaginative types, the same consultants and hacks 
that said that Paul Wellstone couldn't possibly defeat an incumbent. 
If a strategy like robocalls or telemarketing fails there response is 
to do even more of same in the next election. Those same professional 
election losers said an upstart techie could never defeat an 
incumbent mayor too.

	So here we are with the upstart 21st century progressive 
techie running for relection against a 1970s progressive and their 
both entrusting their campaigns to the same cadre of professional 
election losers... is it no wonder that many fear for the future of 
the Democratic Party?

	Now if either candidate had their finger on the pulse of the 
electorate right about now they'd walk into their campaign manager's 
office, hand them an adequate supply of paper bags, and give them 15 
minutes to permanently leave the premises and campaign. Then they'd 
send out certified letters to their telemarketers informing them that 
their services were no longer needed, and their databases had best be 
purged of anything to do with the campaign or voters.

	Rumor has it that Peter McLaughlin's campaign is about to get 
new leadership, but I'm not expecting any fresh air. Given their past 
behavior I expect both campaigns will just hope we forget about their 
drunken campaign's weavings until one goes in the ditch or has a head 
on with a elephant. The campaigns aren't listening to the delegates 
from the 'hood and I doubt they'll listen to the delegates abused by 
their disrespectful telemarketing... unless, like the 'hood 
delegates, a "Do Not Call" caucus emerges with a block of votes that 
will command the candidates attention. Could make for an interesting 
convention...

safely off the campaign trail in Hawthorne,
Dyna Sluyter
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[Mpls] Annoying Phone Calls

[Mark Wilde]

We got the same type of calls last night. No one
there. Like three of them in an hour. My wife went to
the DFL caucus for the first time the other night, so
I am sure that has something to do with it.

We also got two calls from the same person
representing the Mayor within a span of about a half
an hour.  She apologized when she realized she had
already called us, and at least it was a real person,
but still...

These phone calls, espcially the automated ones, are a
waste of time and money.  I wish the campaigns would
realize it and knock it off.

Mark Wilde
Windom Park




For the past two days I have been getting several
calls from 
910-937-9410. When I answer I get clicking but no one
speaks. Tonight they came 
about every 1/2 hour. The caller ID says Central
Marketing. I am on the 
national do not call list and generally I do not
recieve sales calls 
anymore. Is anyone else getting calls from this
number. Someone I talked 
to said it could be someone political campaign. 
 
Barb Lickness

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[Mpls] The long sobs of the violins (of the DFL machine particularly in PP)

[Steve Cross]

Someone just said:
But Zerby's pattern of discrimination against UM students only got worse 
early in 2004 with the safety sweeps he caused to be started around the 
University's East Bank Campus.

I debated a while on whether to say anything about this.  Perhaps it's 
the voice of a fringe that everyone understood as just that so that no 
response was required.  While only at the distant periphery of events at 
that time, I think it needs to be recalled that three people died in a 
fire back then.  And the result was the safety sweeps to try to prevent 
another disaster.  Anyone who thinks that there was anything else going 
on in conducting the safety sweeps other than concern for the safety of 
the students is sadly mistaken.

Steve Cross
Prospect Park
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Re: [Mpls] Vigil Sunday for N Mpls murders

[Pamela Taylor]

Mr. Brady,
 
The sarcasm illustrated my point quite well, and I will not hesitate to use it 
again if I feel it relevant.  Some individuals understand things better when 
put in another way.  Much like comedians do when talking about real life.  So 
your ire, if any intended, was wasted on me.
 
And, simply because you may or may not have missed MY point does not mean there 
was not one made, or that it was not valid.  Perhaps you should sit back and 
rewiew my post, just in case (and I am not saying that you did) you missed it.
 
And, nor did I belittle the neighborhood groups.  I give them high praise.  The 
reference to superheros was because some of the general public seem to believe 
that these neighborhood groups are comprised of such mighty individuals, and 
that they ought to be able to fight crime all on their own.  My opinion is that 
they should NOT have to do it if they don't choose to, nor if they choose to, 
they should not have to do it alone.  Other less impacted neighborhoods don't, 
so impacted neighborhoods should be granted the same priviledge.  They should 
be able to come home and do absolutely nothing but relax.  
 
Now, I rest my case on discussing this point.  If folks can't "get it" there is 
nothing more I can do to help them.
 
Wishing you a good day (and a relaxing crime-free evening at home).
 
Pamela
(Lyndale)   
 
 
 
 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 3/10/2005 2:18:55 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:
PT: The message has been stated loud and clear for decades.  However, the 
people you want to hear the message have insulated themselves from the loud din 
with custom fitted ear plugs.  And, although people want justice to be served, 
and it is their right to have it, they get mighty tired of having to get up and 
go to work during the day, then come home and don their super tights and cape 
and fight crime after dark, too.  Those folks involved with MADD DADS, PEACE 
Foundation and NRP committees should be commended for their efforts on our 
behalf, but it is not their DUTY to commit these random acts of kindness and 
courage.  Do you see people from the non-impacted neighborhoods out wearing 
Batman type tool belts equipped with cameras, pepper spray, walkie talkies, 
etc.  IMHO I see no reason to rail against Jim's very well stated points.  

I believe that even as people are devising ways to combat the crime, there is 
absolutely no reason not to continually restate the constituents need for 
action on the part of elected officials.  Who knows, maybe one day they may 
forget those ear plugs, and something such as social justice may actually 
happen.

Pamela Taylor (Lyndale)  
MY RESPONSE:
I think when you argue against a proposal with comments about batman belts and 
other nonsense sarcasm it really belittles your own arguements. The man came up 
with a very constructive post and how do you respond? I noticed that some 
people on this list like to throw out sarcasm instead of argue a valid point...
 
 Don't you agree that this "need" to have our elected officials take care of 
things attitude is what led the neighborhood to this predicament? On one end 
you belittle the neighborhood watch groups by saying they wear capes, tights 
and what not but then speak of "social justice" is this not the highest form of 
social justice when the people take back there neighborhood(and no not with 
machetes,machine guns and cannon balls so lets not misconstrue my comments 
again) I mean you can't get your politics more local than that! 
 
David Brady
Downtown

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[Mpls] Annoying Phone Calls

[Dan Prozinski]

I got those calls all through the afternoon yesterday.  I would never 
have guessed it would be tied to a Mpls. issue!

Dan Prozinski
Cedar Riverside





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[Mpls] No Professional Phone Call Pledge

[Jon Lewis]

Greetings.

As someone who has worked on, and continues to work on, local campaigns,
I understand the importance of phone calls to delegates, both by the
candidates and from volunteers on behalf of the candidates.  However, I
get very annoyed by calls from professionals, whether they are for
political candidates or commercial enterprises.

I propose that the candidates for local office pledge to stop using
professional telemarketer calls.  If Mayor Rybak or Commissioner
McLaughlin wish to call me and chat, I'd love to talk with them
directly.  If volunteers for either of them wish to call, that's fine,
too.  I've made those calls in the past for candidates and I've had some
great conversations.  However, the automatic dialing described by folks
on this list is annoying.  If people on the delegate lists are getting
these calls already (and I got some before the caucuses), we're in for a
long couple of months.

Since, at this point, these are only going out to DFL delegates, this
may discourage people from doing the caucus thing.  Let's not give
people more reasons to refrain from participating, folks.  

Although political calls seem to be exempt from the do-not-call lists,
there is no reason why the candidates can't voluntarily agree to refrain
from this activity.

So, how about it, RT and Peter?  Who will be the first to take the No
Professional Telemarketer Phone Call pledge?  I'm sure that the NPTPCP
will be a big hit with the delegates.  If you both do it, we (those of
us who are DFL delegates) will be very grateful.  I'll look for the City
Council candidates to chime in, too, although I don't think any of them
are guilty of this at this point.

Take the pledge!

Fighting for a clear phone line in South Minneapolis - 

Jon Lewis
Lyndale


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[Mpls] Taking Care of the Least

[Dorothy Titus]

I think that sometimes officials make decisions in an attempt to be 
"fair" or at least to keep their constituents quiet.  A case in point 
is the recent proposal on the CDBG target map.  Did any of you notice 
what was recommended?

The basic requirement is, if I remember it correctly, that the 
neighborhood has to have 50% or more of its residents below a certain 
poverty level.  I have no problem with this.  It's the second criteria 
that is very interesting.

The proposal said that the average level of substandard housing per 
neighborhood in Minneapolis is 3.3%.  Three maps of targeted 
neighborhoods were proposed.  All, of course, had to meet the poverty 
requirement first.

Map #1 was all neighborhoods that had 3.3% or more substandard housing. 
 It included 23 neighborhoods.
Map #2 was all neighborhoods that had 5% or more substandard housing.  
It included 15 neighborhoods.
Map #3 was all neighborhoods that had 10% or more substandard housing.  
It included 7 neighborhoods.

Guess which map was recommended?  You probably guess it:  Map #1.  This 
means that the Hiawatha neighborhood with, perhaps, 87 substandard 
houses gets in the same pool with Jordan, which has at least 267 
substandard houses.

From a political standpoint, Map #1 makes sense.  You are sharing the 
money among a maximum number of neighborhoods so constituents are 
relatively happy.  From the standpoint of solving the city's problems, 
Map #1 makes the least sense because it means, if the money is divided 
equally, that the neighborhoods in the worst category have seen the 
potential funds diluted by 2/3.  That is, instead of being shared among 
7 neighborhoods, it is shared among 23.  The neighborhoods with the 
most substandard housing get only 1/3 of what they would if the focus 
was on fixing their housing first.

Am I the only one who thinks it might work better to focus on those 
neighborhoods with 10% or more substandard housing and get them down to 
5% and then focus on the 15 neighborhoods with 5% or more and get them 
down to 3.3%.  Then spread the money out further.

It is decisions like these that keep the "blighted" neighborhoods 
blighted.  This is the gap that never gets closed.

Dottie Titus, Jordan
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[Mpls] NRP meeting

[Makeda Zulu-Gillespie]

Neighborhood Revitalization Program Phase II
Planning Meeting

Tuesday March 29, 2005
7-9 pm

Lincoln Elementary
2131 12th Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN 55411
612-668-2800

Come and help prioritize strategies 
to better 
Near North and Willard Hay neighborhoods

Please reserve your spot by March 21, 2005 at 
612-335-5924 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Makeda Zulu-Gillespie
Community Organizer
Northside Residents Redevelopment Council
1313 Plymouth Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN 55411
612/277-1153
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: [Mpls] Annoying Phone Calls

[Nikkicarlson001]

Barb, here's my story:

Once a month, the State DFL has a conference call for all the party unit 
chairs. It was last night at 7 p.m. I phoned in at 7 and everyone went through 
greetings. Then at 7:04 my phone started to beep indicating a call on the other 
line. It beeps very loudly two times. Caller ID indicated "MARKET CENTRAL 
910-937-9419."

It would pause for about a minute, then beep again, always the same number. 
After 20 or so of such calls, I became more and more and more and more 
irritated. I couldn't concentrate on our discussion of increasing citizen and 
volunteer participation. It looked like a telemarketer but the persistence 
didn't make 
any sense. I figured it was a friend of one my teenagers who had no 
understanding of phone etiquette. Then, as it continued, 5 or 10 more calls, I 
began to 
be afraid. What if it was one of my kids, calling from a cell phone, a friend 
or relative using one of those overseas dialers from Iraq, a real emergency?

Finally, I disconnected from the conference call, and picked up this line. A 
cheerful young woman said, "Hi! I have an important call on behalf of Mayor 
Rybak." I told her she had interrupted an important call with the DFL. She said 
her call was very important too, and that they used auto dialers. She said 
Mayor Rybak valued my opinion, and wanted to know what was most important to 
me, 
"Affordable housing, environment, public safety or education." Something like 
that. I said they all were important to me. She said, "Great, then can Mayor 
Rybak count on your support in the convention?" I asked her if she was a 
volunteer on the campaign. She told me she was a professional telemarketer. I 
said I 
had to go as I had a call coming in on the other line.

I really did want to call back in to the conference call, but my other line 
was beeping. It was a real volunteer for the Rybak campaign, asking me when I 
wanted to volunteer for phone banking. I said I was too busy to volunteer at 
the phone bank next Tuesday or Wednesday. So she persisted, and asked my when I 
could find time in my schedule. I told her I was simply too busy. She said I 
should make it a priority as R.T just had to win the endorsement. I asked her 
why, since he didn't plan on respecting the endorsement. She said he respects 
the endorsement, but he just wanted all the voters to have a chance to voice 
their opinion.

I thanked her and went back to my conference call, which was awesome by the 
way, productive and informative. I don't know what I missed during those 10 
minutes.

Nikki Carlson
Linden Hills
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Re: [Mpls] Vigil Sunday for N Mpls murders

[Dennis Plante]

David Brady Writes:
Don't you agree that this "need" to have our elected officials take care of 
things attitude is what led the neighborhood to this predicament? On one end 
you belittle the neighborhood watch groups by saying they wear capes, tights 
and what not but then speak of "social justice" is this not the highest form 
of social justice when the people take back there neighborhood(and no not 
with machetes,machine guns and cannon balls so lets not misconstrue my 
comments again) I mean you can't get your politics more local than that!

Dennis Plante Responds:
Quite to the contrary david, I don't know of anyone in my neghborhood that 
is asking the "leaders" to take care of things which they should not be 
taking care of.  The whole basis of this discussion, at least in the 
beginning, was whether or not adequate policing exists in neighborhoods such 
as mine.  It does not.

The plan which the Police Chief is rolling-out is very similar to the 
policing many of us have been asking to have implimented for the last 4-5 
years.  Foot patrols and proactive policing (e.g., confronting and arresting 
a teenager for low-level narcotic sales and taking away their gun - BEFORE 
they use it).

There are three types of neighbors in my neighborhood:
1) those that are infuriated to a point of throwing their own personal 
safety to the wind and are already involved with bettering the neighborhood 
(a minority)

2) those that maintain a low-profile and don't get involved for fear of 
getting getting hurt, or having their property destroyed (the majority)

3) those that are causing the problems ( a very small minority).
I find it infuriating to have, on numerous occaissions in the past, watch 
several individuals deal pot on a nearby street corner, call 911 to report 
it and be told that there is not a squad available to respond in the next 
hour or two.  And an hour or two later, watch the SAME individuals stop in 
front of MY house and throw dice to gamble their hard-earned drug money.

Do you suggest I go out and confront several individuals at once, by myself 
and tell them to leave, knowing full-well that police protection if I do so 
does not exist?

two years ago, we talked a younger african american, single mother into the 
need to not let teens throw dice in her front yard (drug earnings).  They 
had become brazen enough to where they were taking her lawn chairs, so 
they'd have something to sit it.  Well, one day, upon arriving home from 
work she did confront them and was assaulted (punched in the face & required 
stitches).  Needless to say, she became one of the "silent majority" again.

Self-determination only goes so far, if you do not have the tools to 
accomplish it.  That is very simply, all the residents on the northside are 
asking for.

dennis plante
jordan
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Re: [Mpls] Vigil Sunday for N Mpls murders

[DrollB]

In a message dated 3/10/2005 2:18:55 AM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PT: The message has been stated loud and clear for decades.  However, the 
people you want to hear the message have insulated themselves from the loud din 
with custom fitted ear plugs.  And, although people want justice to be served, 
and it is their right to have it, they get mighty tired of having to get up 
and go to work during the day, then come home and don their super tights and 
cape and fight crime after dark, too.  Those folks involved with MADD DADS, 
PEACE 
Foundation and NRP committees should be commended for their efforts on our 
behalf, but it is not their DUTY to commit these random acts of kindness and 
courage.  Do you see people from the non-impacted neighborhoods out wearing 
Batman type tool belts equipped with cameras, pepper spray, walkie talkies, 
etc.  
IMHO I see no reason to rail against Jim's very well stated points.  

I believe that even as people are devising ways to combat the crime, there is 
absolutely no reason not to continually restate the constituents need for 
action on the part of elected officials.  Who knows, maybe one day they may 
forget those ear plugs, and something such as social justice may actually 
happen.

Pamela Taylor (Lyndale)  
MY RESPONSE:
I think when you argue against a proposal with comments about batman belts 
and other nonsense sarcasm it really belittles your own arguements. The man 
came 
up with a very constructive post and how do you respond? I noticed that some 
people on this list like to throw out sarcasm instead of argue a valid point...

 Don't you agree that this "need" to have our elected officials take care of 
things attitude is what led the neighborhood to this predicament? On one end 
you belittle the neighborhood watch groups by saying they wear capes, tights 
and what not but then speak of "social justice" is this not the highest form of 
social justice when the people take back there neighborhood(and no not with 
machetes,machine guns and cannon balls so lets not misconstrue my comments 
again) I mean you can't get your politics more local than that! 

David Brady
Downtown
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Re: [Mpls] Vigil Sunday for N Mpls murders

[Barbara Lickness]

I have suggested in previous posts that in order to incorporate something 
besides a "police state" approach to the crime issues on the northside it will 
require a well-developed plan coming from all the law enforcement and judicial 
sources of power. 
 
The Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee of the city and county has that 
power. They have no plan, no plans to do a plan and no pressure from anyone to 
develop one and I am still the only one talking about this very powerful group. 
 
Yippee Ki Yi Yo!! 

 
Barb Lickness
Whittier 




"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change 
the world.  Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
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[Mpls] why shame city leaders when you can try to shame Jim Graham?

[m1r3201]

Let's seeour city leaders choose not to listen...so Jim is told that he 
is preaching, or he is shaming or he is practicing insanity by repeating 
himself.

The logic behind this criticism of Jim seems to be that, if our leaders 
choose to turn their backs on us, only point this out once and then be quiet.

I prefer Jim's course of actionkeep up the heat.

Margaret Hastings-Kingfield
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Re: [Mpls] Vigil Sunday for N Mpls murders

[Pamela Taylor]

Mark Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I've been reading this "EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW" sermonizing for over
three years now and what has it gotten us? I don't "fail to understand"
anything. I simply realize that this approach that Jim Graham has been using
of attempting to shame city leaders with all his preaching isn't getting
anywhere, so perhaps it's time to try something else. As Albert Einstein was
credited with once saying, ³The definition of insanity is doing the same
thing over and over again and expecting a different result.²


Pamea Taylor says:

Jim is not attempting to shame the leaders into anything.  He is simply 
pointing out the obvious fact (over and over again) that our taxes should be 
going towards taking care of some of these issues in the impacted 
neighborhoods, as effectively as they are taken care of in less impacted 
neighborhoods.   


MS:That's why I suggested getting organized and coming up with a plan for how
to pay for these additional cops or whatever other public safety resources
you seek. 

Get all the folks who are involved with MADDADs, PEACE Foundation, the
various neighborhood NRP committees, the court watch folks and any other
groups out there that are interested in working to stop the violence and the
crime and with all those various people getting together and working
collectively with a common message that's so loud and clear that it's
impossible for our elected city leaders and legislators to ignore, and then
you can probably really start to have some influence and get something done.


PT: The message has been stated loud and clear for decades.  However, the 
people you want to hear the message have insulated themselves from the loud din 
with custom fitted ear plugs.  And, although people want justice to be served, 
and it is their right to have it, they get mighty tired of having to get up and 
go to work during the day, then come home and don their super tights and cape 
and fight crime after dark, too.  Those folks involved with MADD DADS, PEACE 
Foundation and NRP committees should be commended for their efforts on our 
behalf, but it is not their DUTY to commit these random acts of kindness and 
courage.  Do you see people from the non-impacted neighborhoods out wearing 
Batman type tool belts equipped with cameras, pepper spray, walkie talkies, 
etc.  IMHO I see no reason to rail against Jim's very well stated points.  

I believe that even as people are devising ways to combat the crime, there is 
absolutely no reason not to continually restate the constituents need for 
action on the part of elected officials.  Who knows, maybe one day they may 
forget those ear plugs, and something such as social justice may actually 
happen.

Pamela Taylor (Lyndale)  


 



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