[Mpls] Re: Lagoon Project (Uptown)
Tom Madden: "Uptown is unique for many reasons too - one important reason the character of the area - partially dependant on building height." Thatcher Imboden: I think a lot more of the character of Uptown has to do with its pedestrian-orientation, its mix of uses, its high level of activity, and buildings orientated to the sidewalk than height. While I agree that height does play into character, a lot of people seem to get caught up on height and ignore the ...perhaps...more significant issues listed above. Tom Madden: "Height aside, the traffic too will grow beyond capacity which will drive more traffic through the local neighborhoods." Thatcher Imboden: Much of Uptown's traffic is generated by sources outside of Uptown's boundaries. While it probably is wise that we don't approve very high traffic-demand projects (of which nothing in Uptown I think is at that level), we should really ask ourselves if it is fair to say 'no' to intensity in our area simply because we have people cutting through Uptown on their way elsewhere. Again, it is Minneapolis holding itself hostage to cars and not creating a model environment for a mixed use community that transit can thrive even more. The Lagoon Project is another step in the evolution of Uptown. I question those who say that we need to preserve the character of Uptown because the character of Uptown, from my view, has only become more and more degraded since the mid-1900s when many of the traditional buildings were replaced by auto-oriented businesses and streets (Lagoon Avenue east of Hennepin), and more intensive uses (West High, Minneapolis Arena, Calhoun School) were wiped out. -Thatcher Imboden CARAG REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Freeway woes
Anderson & Turpin wrote: I thank you for pointing out this plan. I will need some time to read and think about it before I comment in detail. But just looking at it briefly, it doesn't appear to fix very much. It plans to double ridership by 2030, which doesn't seem sufficient to have much effect on congestion. And I have doubts that they can achieve that anyway. Again, mass transit will not reduce congestion. More lanes will not reduce congestion. Both will help mitigate it. I believe the Met Council's ridership goals are much too low. Given the Hiawatha experience, I am sure we can double ridership. We should shoot for much more than that. Well, I'll read the Met Council plan, but at this point I'm not convinced that key corridors will take care of the problem. There's been discussion on this List before about how little traffic is going to or from downtown. I see quite a bit of traffic. It's true that there is a lot of cross-suburb traffic. That's why I'd like to see LRT all the way around the beltway. Yeah, it's expensive. But so is adding extra lanes in each direction. We've got to get away from the notion that mass transit should result in a single ride to get us anywhere. There will be transfers, just as in every other city with good mass transit. The central corridor has a lot of trips but I don't know how many actually begin and/or end in the downtown areas. A central corridor LRT will need support systems, pimarily busses, to handle the last mile. Some kind of clean personal transportation (rented bikes, electric cars or scooters, perhaps) could be useful at major park-and-rides. In my own experience, I commuted every day from 1980 until 2004 from Minneapolis to Eden Prairie or Minnetonka. The congestion for the last ten years has been tremendous and gets worse every year. I don't see how mass transit will make a dent in that corridor, including the routes discussed in the Met Council plan. Where would the Southwest LRT need to go to allow you to use it regularly? The Met Council recently held several open houses about the line. About five different alignments are being considered which trade off access vs. cost. Look for the Southwest corridor summary, which should have maps of the proposed routes. When I took that trip to city hall, I drove from work in Mendota Heights to the Fort Snelling park-and-ride and took a nice, quick trip into downtown. I didn't have to pay for gas along Hiawatha Ave and in downtown. I didn't have to pay for parking. Unfortunately, we have this notion that park-and-rides are for rush-hour commuters. Think of them as access points to the mass transit system. That's how they get used in Chicago, for example. Full trains are good; it reduces the need for subsidy. But I thought the purpose of the train was to reduce auto congestion and to serve the people that travel in that corridor. It's one of the reasons. Other reasons include redevelopment and access to businesses. Cap's Grill, for example, has seen a huge surge in business since Hiawatha opened. I count at least four major brand new condo developments either just completed or under construction along Hiawatha. There never was that much congestion in the first place on Hiawatha, in comparison to other corridors. It would have been much better to put LRT where there are heavier levels of commuting. Remember that Hiawatha equipment will be viable for 50 years at least. This is a plan for the future. Hiawatha was chosen as the first route for several reasons, mostly political in nature. Residents didn't want the proposed six-lane freeway, so in a sense even those who don't regularly use the line benefit from it. So it does serve the area. Other reasons included the existing state ownership of the right-of-way (less cost) and the inability of Ramsey and Hennepin county (and Minneapolis and St. Paul) to agree on a plan for Central. Pretty much everyonee agrees that for sheer volume considerations, Central is the most obvious first choice. I suppose it's possible that real good mass transit could encourage denser development in the path of the bus or train, thus resulting in a future population pattern more conducive to mass transit. I will remain open to that possibility -- I'll see what the plan says. It's happened in many other places. Portland put a modern streetcar through a very large abandoned, polluted industrial field. Now it's a thriving shopping and residential district. It's happening right here along Hiawatha, as noted above. Believe it or not, I like having mass transit available also. One reason I live in the city is so I can get places on the bus. But that doesn't mean we should write a blank check for it. Most of the arguments I hear are that we have to have more trains and buses, regardless of the cost. I've never heard that argument from anyone who has done any sort of study of transportation. Even the good folks at Transit
[mpls] MPRB 6-1-2005 Highlights and more Part 1
All messages in [ brackets ] are comments of the typist.. [4:45 Pre- meeting band concert in the parking lot for visitors and press by the DeLaSalle students] 5:00 Planning committee is called to order by Commissioner Fine who announces that there will be public input allowed on the DeLaSalle action item and there are sign up sheets in the hallway. Commissioner Young would like to have a plan for this open speaking time so the meeting doesn't go to midnight Commissioner Fine would like to see how many speakers sign up first Commissioner Dziedzic claims he will be making an amendment to the motion if it passes 4.1 That the board approve the schematic plan for the Berger Fountain Rebuild ( this is the dandelion fountain in Loring Park ) Mike Kimble of the MPRB planning department, Merry Keefe of the Save Berger Fountain Group, facilitator to the various neighborhood groups and Robert Cook, architect make the presentation for the new fountain. The dandelion appearance of the fountain will remain, but the splash pools, plaza, orientation toward paths and the greenway and the mechanics will be changed. It was also suggested that the shuffleboard courts be moved. There would be new seating, new lighting for the basin and fountain, and the fountain would be re-engineered to be re-circulating. The various organizations involved would do $1,000,000 in fundraising and would hope to eventually use the Park Foundation as the fiscal agent ( a task currently done by the Friends of Loring Park). The current plan is that after the schematic is approved to build a model to help further fundraising. Commissioner Erwin mentions that the fountain currently costs $15,000 per year for water and electricity and understands the new design will reduce that cost to $7500 a year and thanks the various groups for their effort to save the signature fountain. Commissioner Young asks if $1,000,000 will be enough. Ms. Keefe states that $1,000,000 will cover the fountain and plaza redesign and that further fundraising will be done to complete other areas of the plan and that they will work with the MPRB staff on future items. PASSES 4.2 That the Board approve the terms for the implementation of a Reciprocal Use Agreement with DeLaSalle High School Judd Reitkirk Director of Planning gives some background on Nicollet Island complete with old photos and ariel view maps 1977 The Central Riverfront Master Plan is developed 1978 the Met Council Approves $4.5 million for Open Space land acquisition 1980 the MPRB decides to keep the housing on the Island and the Met Council approves and additional $5.4 million for land acquisition 1983 a Contract for Acquisition and Transfer of Lands for Redevelopment by Public Bodies by and between the MCDA and the City of Minneapolis, by and through its Park and Recreation Board is signed [This is the "key" document and DeLaSalle is not one of the parties on the title page so hardly a major player] The Met Council then approves the Nicollet Island Master Plan [ $ 9.9 million in Met Council Open Fund Money which may need to go back ] Commissioner Dziedzic asks if housing was in the plan? Director Reitkirk says the original plan did not include housing. [Not specific if it was the draft plan or master he is referring to at this point ] There is some confusion as to what comes next as Director Reitkirk planned to next defer to the DeLaSalle architect and engineer who in turn defer to Brother Michael Collins who begins his speech. He is interrupted by Commissioner Fine who wants to know where they are in the agenda [There is no public input listed on the agenda and Commissioner Young's asking to have a plan was ignored so Commissioner Fine is winging it here ] It is determined that the staff portion of the presentation is complete and that Brother Michael does have some time to spare before his duties at DeLaSalle for the evening call him away so the meeting moves on to the DeLaSalle architects. Kevin Halbach of KKE architects and Jay Pomeroy Landscape Designer and Engineer of Anderson-Johnson Associates, Inc make their presentation. Mr. Halbach states that their are many issues involved and that he sees himself as not only the architect for DeLaSalle but also for the neighborhood and the people of the city and the MPRB and would like to include them as well. The design shown is described as a multipurpose field for softball, soccer, football etc The area outside of the field and bleachers would include pathways and pedestrian lighting. The main change will be the closing of Grove Street. There would also be plantings and landscaping, Brother's Park, recreation and bleacher seating for up to 750 people and would address ADA requirements and safety and security issues. Mr. Pomeroy then speaks to the loss and possible relocation of the tennis courts and the relocation of the batting cage to a small softball i
Re: [Mpls] New Stadium Bill Proposes 50-50 Profit Split
Gary Hoover wrote: I do not believe in the myth of scarcity I have read at least three or four times about how you feel the stadium takes away funding for health care and other critical services. It seems to me that you _do_ believe in it. or in the myth of abundance. I don't know what you mean by this. Our country has the wealth to do pretty much whatever we want. Ditto the state. If you're talking about non-renewable resources, I entirely agree. "Abundance" is not the same thing as "wanton consumption." I do believe that a few wealthy folks who own or work in our local professional sports entertainment industry may have to budget a wee bit, but I also believe that the game is played for love, not for money. I don't object to your position on the stadium. I understand it entirely. What I object to is setting up stadium funding against funding for important social services. All that does is reinforce the idea that we have to pick and choose what we want. This is why we're currently stuck in legislative gridlock. Everyone is working under the assumption we can't raise taxes because no one has any money and we've got to choose some services over others. This is the big lie. RE: My efforts being worthless and counterproductive while yours are worthwhile and positive. I have said nothing of the sort. My guess is that if we rely on the slow mechanisms of our pseudo-democracy to provide a sustainable future for us, we will be as disappointed as if we rely on the superstition of the "free market." Here I strongly disagree with you. I think it's great that you are doing your bit to call attention to ther importance of weaning ourselves from non-renewable energy sources. My question is always, "and _then_ what are you ready to do?" It's because various forces have created the cynical myth that ordinary people can't make a difference that few people bother to try. Until we are willing to use _our_ form of government, to shape things according to _our_ values and vision by using the political structures that already exist, we will lose. Until we are willing to sit down with those who disagree with us, understand their disagreement and make a true effort at compromise, we will lose. Politics isn't a world of absolutes and perfect solutions. It will always be a battle and we will never get everything we want in one swoop but we can definitely get there in stages. David Greene The Wedge REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Lagoon Project (Uptown)
I live near this project, and given the details I know so far, I have absolutely no problem with it. Development is going to happen. That's a simple reality. Either it can happen in the far-flung 'burbs, like Chanhassen or Blaine, where there is no hope for much transit and more highways will have to be built, or it can happen where there already are roads, transit, and other necessary infrastructure. In today's Star Tribune there was an article about the mess that is Eden Prairie's road system, especially around Eden Prairie Center. Lake and Hennepin is simple, it is accessible, it is already a commercial center. We need to develop these nodes to create a critical mass of residents, offices, and retail to justify investments in transit and to make a truly vibrant neighborhood. I'm not absolutely pro-development, but this development makes sense in a lot of ways. Fearing change because it's change will not allow our neighborhoods and city to mature. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Lagoon Project (Uptown)
Pros: The project would do a lot to further justify transit in the Greenway. It would also really help other local business, which I would expect would create some new jobs. At $75 million it would help build the taxbase or ease pressure on existing properties. An overall increase in housing supply would also ease upward price pressures on existing properties. Contrary to some dissenters opionions, limiting the amount of housing put in the area (ie not approving more intense development) does more to increase prices than allowing the construction of additional market rate units. Cons: It changes the character of a neighborhood, which by the way is changing (and has changed for the past 100 years) whether you approve the project or not. Rant: I Look at areas in east coast cities and they are a lot more connected and complete feeling. That is what bothers me when people talk about the character, we have so many gaps from parking lots and completely random assortments (architecturally speaking) of commercial and residential buildings that I am not sure what people are really trying to protect most of the time. This is being built on a parking lot after all. What are the opponents trying to preserve? The unique character of surface lots? It would be a very different argument if they were proposing knocking down architecturally significant structures or eliminating existing housing but that is not the case in this proposal. Its a shame that we don't have politicians and residents with a vision to reinvent Minneapolis as a great urban area instead of keeping it a sleepy streetcar suburb. We live in a city. We don't get to just say "I want the neighborhood to stay the way it is circa 1992 and that's it." If people are really so opposed to the idea of tall buildings and people developing land in locations just blocks from the largest downtown in the four state area maybe they should either consider that this is not the environment they want to live in or buy up the property themselves so they can keep it as they prefer. I'm not advocating that there should be no limitations on development simply that along commercial corridors (Lake and Hennepin) we should allow for high levels of density and instensity of use. The common retort I hear is that if we (citizens of MPLS) all wanted to live in places that are dense like NY, Chicago, etc. we would've moved there. My response is that if they are right about what people really want, then the development won't be feasible and won't happen and they've got nothing to worry about. Nick Frank Elliot Park _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] RE: Smoking and Carts
Robert Schmid wrote: Faith in the market is misplaced faith, indeed. The "great, invisible hand of the marketplace" fails as often, if not more often than it succeeds and smoking is a perfect example of that. If the market truly worked, then very, very few people would smoke. They would understand that "benefit" of smoking is far outweighed by its costs and never start. And yet, they do. Why is this? It's because the marketplace, like democracy, fails when the consumer/elector is not properly educated. (Two American economists won a Nobel prize proving this point.) When the consumer is overmarketed and undereducated he makes bad choices and supports bad products. Mark Anderson replies: So whenever you disagree with someone else's consumption behavior, that's market failure? (Oh sorry, whenever the consumer hasn't been "educated" sufficiently as to their proper market behavior, that's market failure.) Under that standard, I would agree that the market fails quite often. On the other hand, if one believes that people have the right to make their own consumption choices, the market works rather well. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Freeway woes
David Greene wrote: Check the Met Council's 2030 transportation policy plan. It's all right out there. We have the system planned. We just need to build it. BTW, the 2030 plan is a delay in the original schedule to get things done by 2020. We really need to hit the 2020 date. The projection is 1 million new residents by 2030 but so far our metro area's growth rate has been FAR beyond what was projected for the past 5 years or so. Mark Anderson: I thank you for pointing out this plan. I will need some time to read and think about it before I comment in detail. But just looking at it briefly, it doesn't appear to fix very much. It plans to double ridership by 2030, which doesn't seem sufficient to have much effect on congestion. And I have doubts that they can achieve that anyway. DG: First off, to mitigate congestion, we need to build mass transit (LRT and buses) along key corridors. Metro-wide trip numbers are not relevant. What's relevant is the volume along specific corridors, as the Met Council demonstrates in the TPP. Highway-only folks like to drag out the tired argument that public transportation only makes up 3% of metro trips currently. What they hide is the fact that it makes up at least 40% of trips to downtown Minneapolis. We will never reduce congestion. The level of congestion we have today will remain with us as long as we have cars. All we can do is slow its growth. MA: Well, I'll read the Met Council plan, but at this point I'm not convinced that key corridors will take care of the problem. There's been discussion on this List before about how little traffic is going to or from downtown. I suspect such traffic is a relatively small part of the total congestion. In my own experience, I commuted every day from 1980 until 2004 from Minneapolis to Eden Prairie or Minnetonka. The congestion for the last ten years has been tremendous and gets worse every year. I don't see how mass transit will make a dent in that corridor, including the routes discussed in the Met Council plan. I agree that congestion cannot be eliminated, but I don't believe we can't reduce it somewhat by fixing some bottlenecks and adding some lanes. DG: I used to think this too (MA: Hiawatha a bad first choice for LRT) until I started using it when it opened. The cars are full during rush hour and steadily used throughout the day. I took a train to city hall one afternoon and it was standing room only at about 1:30pm. Weekends have steadily high levels. Standing room only trains are quite common. MA: Full trains are good; it reduces the need for subsidy. But I thought the purpose of the train was to reduce auto congestion and to serve the people that travel in that corridor. There never was that much congestion in the first place on Hiawatha, in comparison to other corridors. It would have been much better to put LRT where there are heavier levels of commuting. DG: Then you'll enjoy the Southwest LRT that's planned! (MA: In response to my comment on driving the Southwest Metro) MA: Only if it goes where I need to go, which seems pretty unlikely. Autos are a lot more flexible. LRT and buses only make sense when lots of people are coming and going to and from the same place. I think that doesn't happen a whole lot in the Metro, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if the Met plan makes a good case. I suppose it's possible that real good mass transit could encourage denser development in the path of the bus or train, thus resulting in a future population pattern more conducive to mass transit. I will remain open to that possibility -- I'll see what the plan says. DG: I'd rather build a community where I don't have to rely on a car. MA: Believe it or not, I like having mass transit available also. One reason I live in the city is so I can get places on the bus. But that doesn't mean we should write a blank check for it. Most of the arguments I hear are that we have to have more trains and buses, regardless of the cost. I don't believe in mass transit at any cost. We need to compare the respective costs of auto vs bus vs train transit. And I do think this cost should take into account non-monetary benefits and costs of auto vs mass transit as well as the actual cash spent. Peter Vevang wrote: It is not possible to add an additional 4 or 6 lanes needed to improve flow, we have nowhere to put the extra lanes. But even if we could demolish nearby neighborhoods, we couldn't afford it. Imagine the cost of demolishing the large retaining walls, and somehow adding extensions to elevated sections of highway, excavating down 20 or 30 feet in places, and moving all the sewers, power lines and other utilities and installing new storm water systems. We are facing this problem across the metro. We can't add more lanes to I-35W, I-94 or I-394, we don't have the desire or political will to demolish neighborhoods and we would need many billions of dollars to accomplish our goals. MA: I do
Re: [Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / Noalternatives?
My response was not aimed to be a personal attack, just to show why being different is a great thing. Nor is my response aimed at debating my new found friend Dennis Plante. We have both agreed, in emails to each other on various issues, to disagree and still respect each others opinion. My apologies to the List Manager. That flight back in time made my arms tired anyway (Smile). Michelle Hill Cleveland-Proud to be an American REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / Noalternatives?
Folks, we're moving too far from Mpls here. I suggest the discussion continue off list, or get back to town... David Brauer List manager On Jun 3, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Dennis Plante wrote: Michelle Writes: All races listed above, would not still be fighting for equality. Each culture was already rich within their own culture until Western America decided to take what did not belong to them and to force their way of life on groups that were "outgunned." Until the Western culture decided to force people to work and cultivate the very land that has been passed on to their descendants. One will never know what would have happened if greed had not overtaken humanity. Dennis Responds: Well, acts of social dominance have occurred throughout the entire history of mankind. Even today, people are sold into slavery. Genocide still occurs on a routine basis and it isn't, nor has it ever been, all about whites oppressing african americans. In fact, this specific oppression is but a microcosim of the injustice that mankind has, and continues to inflict upon itself throughout our entire history. Ask the Muslims what they thought of the crusaders, or the Koreans what they thought of the Japanese, or the numerous african tribes that have been/are oppressed by other african tribes. Or ask all of the subcultures that lived in south america what they thought of the incas? Or the Aztecs? Or the Mayans? Assimilation does work and it is happening in our country as we speak. It only comes through continued interaction and relationship building. Does this mean that we all have to cast-off our heritage? No. But, it does mean that we all have to be willing to abide by the laws that the majority of society has determined are necessary for our society to exist and be successfull. Here's a litmus test that has nothing to do with political correctness. If everyone that had an ancestor that had suffered religious, or racial persecution throughout history were allowed to collect compensation, would any money even change hands? Mankind IS evolving. In some ways for the good and in some ways for the not so good. But, it is evolving. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / Noalternatives?
Michelle Writes: All races listed above, would not still be fighting for equality. Each culture was already rich within their own culture until Western America decided to take what did not belong to them and to force their way of life on groups that were "outgunned." Until the Western culture decided to force people to work and cultivate the very land that has been passed on to their descendants. One will never know what would have happened if greed had not overtaken humanity. Dennis Responds: Well, acts of social dominance have occurred throughout the entire history of mankind. Even today, people are sold into slavery. Genocide still occurs on a routine basis and it isn't, nor has it ever been, all about whites oppressing african americans. In fact, this specific oppression is but a microcosim of the injustice that mankind has, and continues to inflict upon itself throughout our entire history. Ask the Muslims what they thought of the crusaders, or the Koreans what they thought of the Japanese, or the numerous african tribes that have been/are oppressed by other african tribes. Or ask all of the subcultures that lived in south america what they thought of the incas? Or the Aztecs? Or the Mayans? Assimilation does work and it is happening in our country as we speak. It only comes through continued interaction and relationship building. Does this mean that we all have to cast-off our heritage? No. But, it does mean that we all have to be willing to abide by the laws that the majority of society has determined are necessary for our society to exist and be successfull. Here's a litmus test that has nothing to do with political correctness. If everyone that had an ancestor that had suffered religious, or racial persecution throughout history were allowed to collect compensation, would any money even change hands? Mankind IS evolving. In some ways for the good and in some ways for the not so good. But, it is evolving. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Lagoon Project (Uptown)
...From the SW Journal Story (as forwarded by D. Brauer) Lagoon Project moves on up Planning Commission opts for Uptown height, density as neighborhoods split on condo/retail complex between the Greenway and Lagoon Ave. near Hennepin. http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news01.txt Tom Madden: I have a real issue with the blatant disregard of the hundreds, if not thousands of people who have worked over that last many years (since well before my lifetime) to keep the heights of buildings in the Uptown area at the current level. Imagine Washington DC if the buildings were allowed to be built higher than our Capital? DC is unique for many reasons. One of the most obvious reasons is visual - because of the height limitations. Uptown is unique for many reasons too - one important reason the character of the area - partially dependant on building height. We are already seeing height creeping in with the latest additions on the north side of Calhoun. I suspect that once the damn has cracked, all the water will eventually rush through. Height aside, the traffic too will grow beyond capacity which will drive more traffic through the local neighborhoods. I, for one, do not like the project and am surprised the Planning Commission approved it despite the "issues" or "concerns" lists presented in the article. Short sided - that¹s what this is to me. Tom Madden Lowry Hill REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Top 10 Mpls neighborhoods, by household earnings
I'm responsible for the $20 part of the Lowry Hill. Wish I was for the rest. Tom Madden Lowry Hill On 6/3/05 3:34 PM, "David Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From the city using the 2000 Census, the Top 10 city neighborhoods, > ranked by mean (average) earnings per household: > > 1. Kenwood $151,465 > 2. Cedar Isles Dean $132,600 > 3. Lynnhurst $119,288 > 4. Nicollet Island East Bank $100,734 > 5. Lowry Hill $91,020 > 6. East Calhoun $90,754 > 7. Tangletown $89,292 > 8. Fulton $86,840 > 9. Linden Hills $79,568 > 10. Bryn Mawr $78,653 > > Minneapolis citywide average $52,245 > > Locations, if you need help finding them: > > 1. Kenwood: between Lake of the Isles and Cedar Lake > 2. Cedar Isles Dean: southern end of Isles and Cedar to Lake St. > 3. Lynnhurst: West 46th Street to West 54th Street, Lyndale to Penn > avenues > 4. Nicollet Island/East Bank: the island and a wedge bordered by the > river, 3rd Avenue NE and Central Ave. > 5. Lowry Hill: Hennepin Ave. S. to roughly Logan Ave. S., BN rail > tracks to W. 22nd St. > 6. East Calhoun: Lake St. to W. 36th St., eastern shore of Lake Calhoun > to Hennepin Ave. S. > 7. Tangletown: W. 46th St. to Diamond Lake Rd., Lyndale Ave. S. to I-35W > 8. Fulton: W. 47th St. to W. 54th St., France Ave. S. to Penn Ave. S. > 9. Linden Hills: W. 36th St. to W. 47th St., Calhoun's southwest corner > and west of Lake Harriet. > 10. Bryn Mawr: Cedar Lake's northwest corner, either side of I-394 to > roughly from Wirth Parkway to the east side of Bryn Mawr park, northern > border a bit of Glenwood and the railroad tracks > > Nine of 10 neighborhood are SW (though part of Bryn Mawr is north, too) > and one is Downtown. > > David Brauer > Kingfield > > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If > you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / Noalternatives?
DENNIS PLANTE RIGHTS: What would have happened had when the first slave traders that showed-up in Africa done so with spears, and been faced with natives carrying guns? What would have happened had when the Spaniards showed-up in south America, they did so under the same circumstances? What would have happened had native Americans been more technologically advanced than white settlers moving west? How would our world be different today? MICHELLE HILL RESPONDS: All races listed above, would not still be fighting for equality. Each culture was already rich within their own culture until Western America decided to take what did not belong to them and to force their way of life on groups that were "outgunned." Until the Western culture decided to force people to work and cultivate the very land that has been passed on to their descendants. One will never know what would have happened if greed had not overtaken humanity. DENNIS PLANTE WRITES: My personal belief? Assimilation is what will inevitably facilitate the social equity we all hope to achieve. MICHELLE HILL RESPONDS: Assimilation happened decades ago. You cannot assimilate the poor into a society that does not want them there. You cannot assimilate people of color or gays into a society that does not want them there. That is why the different races coexist and still not really see each other or know each other. The only hope is for us to not inflict our fears and judgment, of those who we perceive as different, on future generation. People of color have just as many stereotypes as do Whites. So, change has to come from everyone. If change can happen is the test. If you are honest with yourself ask these questions: When I read the debate on "gang-bangers" being labeled as "terrorist," what racial group came to your mind first? When one of the people on the forum used the term "Ghetto" folks, what race came to your mind first? When African-Americans ask for reparations from slavery, why does that anger so many people, but you accept the Native-American and Holocaust victims being compensated (As they should have)? When Anita hill complained of inappropriate behavior by Clarence Thomas, before he became a U.S. Supreme Court judge, most Americans were angry at her. However, when Former President Bill Clinton was found to be involved in a sex scandal with Monica Lewinsky, most Americans wanted his head on a platter. I could go on but I think you get the point. Some African-Americans make it b ad for the rest. An intoxicated Native American has caused society to label Native Americans as drunks, this group that is more religious and spiritual than any other group in the world. Hispanics are labeled as lazy, but they will work for less money than any other race. Because your religion says being Gay is evil, then you choose to do God's job and judge an individual, when some may need to take a look at your own life first. A few bad police officers have made it hard for good officers to do their jobs effectively. The actions of some White Americans cause all other races to believe that all Whites are racist. Change has to come from within and you can send 90 police officers into a community and you will only mange to piss some good people off. Most will say that in order for there to be change some people will have to be made uncomfortable or inconvenienced. Good people will only accept inconvenience for a short time.Just watch and see. As to myself, I love being African-American, I love being female. I love the difference of all people. DENNIS PLANTE WROTE: I LOVE what the PEACE FOUNDATION is trying (in part) to accomplish. Many of the individuals that participated in the "human chain" a few weeks back, had not set-foot in Jordan in a long, long time. Yet, they came, and they learned. MICHELLE HILL RESPONDS: Those who set foot in Jordan for the PEACE chain, I too support the effort. But what happens now? A million men march on Washington and women are still raising their children alone. The state is still trying to collect child support payments. A message means nothing if their is no following-up. I do believe that the PEACE Foundation is committed, but there has been about 5 marches in the North Minneapolis community and numerous people calling for peace. Just who are we really asking for peace from. Is it crime, racism, poverty, hunger, sexism, unemployment, etc.? Most will say all of the above. I personally believe that churches have to go back out to the homes in their neighborhoods to meet the parents. Perhaps get assistance to pick up the kids in the neighborhood and take them to church. In time perhaps those parents who are not attending will attend with their child. If not, then getting them to allow their child to go to Sunday School and church (or what ever your denomination is) is a great start. The pastors (Priest, Rabbi, Reverend, etc.) can all meet and div
[Mpls] Uptown density, getting SW to E Lake St + more SW Journal stories
Stories of note from the brand spanking new Southwest Journal: Lagoon Project moves on up Planning Commission opts for Uptown height, density as neighborhoods split on condo/retail complex between the Greenway and Lagoon Ave. near Hennepin. http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news01.txt Military recruitment in high school SW high schoolers protest recruiter-led classes and what they say are deceptive data-collection practices; School Board member Judy Farmer discusses how city data practices were superseded by No Child Left Behind http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news02.txt What's at stake for the city in a special session More than the ballpark — including a significant pension deal http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news07.txt Southwest Councilmembers face votes — on their own projects Dan Niziolek and Robert Lilligren have personal proposals their colleagues must vote on http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news08.txt Southwest condos in the "low $100,000s"? Lander group proposes 41 units at 38th & Nicollet http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news04.txt Southwest area has highest share of low-wage workers It's not all Armani suits http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/news/news05.txt Make a trip to Midtown How Southwest's buying power can help East Lake Street get through road construction http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2005/06/03/opinion/opin01.txt David Brauer Kingfield Editor, SW Journal & Skyway News REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Top 10 Mpls neighborhoods, by household earnings
From the city using the 2000 Census, the Top 10 city neighborhoods, ranked by mean (average) earnings per household: 1. Kenwood $151,465 2. Cedar Isles Dean $132,600 3. Lynnhurst $119,288 4. Nicollet Island East Bank $100,734 5. Lowry Hill $91,020 6. East Calhoun $90,754 7. Tangletown $89,292 8. Fulton $86,840 9. Linden Hills $79,568 10. Bryn Mawr $78,653 Minneapolis citywide average $52,245 Locations, if you need help finding them: 1. Kenwood: between Lake of the Isles and Cedar Lake 2. Cedar Isles Dean: southern end of Isles and Cedar to Lake St. 3. Lynnhurst: West 46th Street to West 54th Street, Lyndale to Penn avenues 4. Nicollet Island/East Bank: the island and a wedge bordered by the river, 3rd Avenue NE and Central Ave. 5. Lowry Hill: Hennepin Ave. S. to roughly Logan Ave. S., BN rail tracks to W. 22nd St. 6. East Calhoun: Lake St. to W. 36th St., eastern shore of Lake Calhoun to Hennepin Ave. S. 7. Tangletown: W. 46th St. to Diamond Lake Rd., Lyndale Ave. S. to I-35W 8. Fulton: W. 47th St. to W. 54th St., France Ave. S. to Penn Ave. S. 9. Linden Hills: W. 36th St. to W. 47th St., Calhoun's southwest corner and west of Lake Harriet. 10. Bryn Mawr: Cedar Lake's northwest corner, either side of I-394 to roughly from Wirth Parkway to the east side of Bryn Mawr park, northern border a bit of Glenwood and the railroad tracks Nine of 10 neighborhood are SW (though part of Bryn Mawr is north, too) and one is Downtown. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Lake St. Repaving
Listers, It begins. Yesterday a man with an air hammer made some little test drills. True to form, the chandelier in the dining room shook and one light bulb gave up the ghost, so to speak. Today, a truck about 80ft. long parked on Oakland with a load of yellow pipe. A huge roll of yellow pipe was sitting smack in the middle of C&J motors/towing driveway. I'm sure Jerry Hamilton loved that! The early signs were detours of the buses--21, 5, 53, 9, ?--onto 31st. St., people standing around on 31st--legitimately. Temporary bus stops run across 31st. Now we have to begin watching which way the dealers and prostitutes, junkies and hangers on are going to move. Hangers on includes people fencing hot goods, pick pockets and cut purses, wannabes and usedtowases. They range in age from about 8 or 9 to roughly 65. There are also the "summer prostitutes" who will be moving into the area. I've seen them West of 4th Av., they'll be getting pushed. There are at least 3 or 4 pimps in the immediate area at any given hour of the day. Immediate area to me means roughly Chicago to 35W. There is a somewhat different profile east of Chicago, but it is similar in many ways. I was forcefully reminded by Muriel Simmons that, in this immediate area, drug dealing was so much more rampant and unbelievable that our current situation makes it seem as though we could achieve something almost edenic--not! Those of you living in this general area (Bloomington Av. to 35W, 26th St. to 34th St.) might/should be carefully watching. This is not to say that those further away should feel comfortable. I cannot predict where all they will go, but I know that they will move into the areas I have outlined. Yesterday, the mayor declared it Muriel Simmons Day in Minneapolis. Thank you, R.T. That was sweet of you. She has earned her street cred and her day. She kept a lot of folks both enthused and on task for a lot of years. She does get in faces, always graciously, but forcefully. Drug dealer, prostitute, politician, name it, she's stepped into "their" space to speak truth to power. It was also her birthday, so we had cake. Way to go, Muriel. Not too shabby for a woman in her mid-elderhood. WizardMarks, Central REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Campaign Kick-Off TONIGHT @ Mill City
Dear Minneapolis Issues List, I am informing you again directly that I am running for the Minneapolis City Council Ward 3 open seat, and that we, Neighbors for Neumann, are having our official campaign kick-off at Mill City Coffee - located at 2205 California St NE, Minneapolis, 55418 - (612) 789-8262 - from 8 p.m. to late p.m. (maybe even a.m.!). There will be live jazz, refreshments, food, wine, and cash bar with a suggested donation of $5 - $20. You can find all the detailed information on our website or right here: http://pulsetc.com/AaronNeumann/campaignkick-off.doc As with any campaign for office, we will run a principled, positive campaign based on our shared values. I will keep you apprised of the latest campaign developments and events, and actively participate in the issue discussions here. I love this list. There are so many good people, ideas, and community happenings here that I eagerly await reading your posts everyday - so much so that you have even inspired this very campaign. Your interest in advancing our values and progressing our fair city for the future is so important that it is critical to inform and enroll you to help shape our message and campaign. Together we are presenting our ideas for opening and strengthening our democracy, protecting and enhancing our environment, and building a more just, sustainable and vibrant city for everyone. I welcome your support as well as your constructive criticism. Open communication and the full participation of as many voices and viewpoints as possible is grassroots democracy, one that leads us to solutions to complex problems that we face as a community. This is where you take an active part. Explore our website, attend one of our events (tonight!), and please feel free to contact me now or anytime. Yours, in peace and cooperation, Aaron Neumann Candidate for Minneapolis City Council Ward 3 (Green) Neighbors for Neumann 1828 Marshall St. NE #18 Minneapolis, MN 55418-4211 612.788.1284 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://VoteNeumann.org "Bridging Diverse Communities" Effective Government * Healthy Environment * Safe Communities * Arts Advocacy "Politics isn't about big money or power games; it's about the improvement of people's lives." - Paul Wellstone -- REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / Noalternatives?
Dennis Plante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What would have happened had when the first slave traders that showed-up in Africa done so with spears, and been faced with natives carrying guns? What would have happened had when the Spaniards showed-up in south america, they did so under the same circumstances? What would have happened had native americans been more technologically advanced than white settlers moving west? How would our world be different today? Pamela Taylor says: As long as we are asking the hypothetical $64,000 question, this is my answer. I believe that to the degree that they were able, each of the cultures already WERE technologically advanced. All were highly functioning societies, and would have become even more so had their genius not been so rudely interrupted. I firmly believe that there would have been some sort of struggle, but I do not believe that the slave traders would have become the slaves of the African people. I think they would have integrated into the culture of the Africans, bringing some of their knowledge and abilities too. We could have had the best of both worlds. It is evident that in todays society Africans have contributed greatly, and when I hear the tired phrase "go back to Africa" , as if this is not our country too, it is laughable. This country, by and large, was built by and on the BACKS of my people, who were slaves. Don't look for me to be gushing about it during Black Hi story Month, as I personally do not celbrate it. My skin color and my views are a constant. This information needs to be acknowledged 365 days/24 hours a day/7 days a week. If even that was done, just that piece would start making a difference. ALL of our children, no matter their culture, could begin to grow up with a true sense of history. Dennis Plante says: Racism and discrimmination is too a large degree, based upon preconceived notions we have of each other. And sometimes, those that are discrimminated against end-up having to play an inequitable part in changing those preconceived notions than do the ones "in-power". Pamela Taylor says: IMHO, it is more than sometimes, it is almost always the case. If those with less power did not keep up the good fight, praying and forgiving along the way, those in power would never see a reason to change. Things would remain status quo. Dennis Plante says: EVERYONE faces some sort of discrimmination on a daily basis. At times we are all either the wrong, color, the wrong sex, the wrong age, or have too little money, to achieve what we would like to achieve. The further-up you are in race, age, sex and financial standing in our society, the less likely your are to be discrimminated against. Pamela Taylor says: That is true to a degree. Sometimes the form of discrimination is simply discreetly changed the further up you go. Dennis Plants says: My personal belief? Assimilation is what will inevtibably facilitate the social equity we all hope to achieve. We tend to care about and have a deeper commitment to, those we have come to know personally. Pamela Taylor says: IMHO, in this world where we keep insisting that we value diversity, by celebrating each other's cultures/customs etc., total assimilation is not likely to occur. Yes, we can come to love, care, and commit to others, but should not count on assimilation. And, one should not hope to rely on such to achieve the social equity that is the legal and ethical birthright of all of us. Dennis Plante says: I LOVE what the PEACE FOUNDATION is trying (in part) to accomplish. Many of the individuals that participated in the "human chain" a few weeks back, had not set-foot in Jordan in a long, long time. Yet, they came, and they learned. Maybe they will continue to learn and care more deeply about their fellow residents that are not as fortunate as they are. Is this a bad thing? When dealing with the real world, sometimes one has to choose between the "least dirty pair of socks" when they have not done their laundry in a long, long, time. Pamela Taylor says: What the PEACE FOUNDATION is working toward is wonderful, and I do not want to take away from that. The Human Chain was great, and it is my sincere wish, as well, that people not wait for such a public event to set foot in there again. Those of you who were there (as I was not), I urge you to remember who you saw there, and keep track as to whether they return when no huge crowd or photo opportunity awaits them. Because its what people do when no one is looking but GOD that really counts. And, thank you Dennis, for the opportunity to engage in meaningful discussion. List, you don't have to agree, but as always, thanks for reading. Pamela Taylor (Lyndale) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the
[Mpls] Medians
Driving up 3rd avenue through downtown I noticed the planted medians of the 'arts avenue' did not fare well over the winter. I'd say half the plantings are dead. Who takes responsibilty for replanting and maintaining? On a lighter note, the ongoing constructuion on Central avenue NE from 27th to 37th was well worth it. The medians are being planted with oodles of trees and flowers and they look fantastic! Two plus years of driving headaches sure paid off... Thanks Public Works and the neighborhood for seeing a vision of green rather than more asphalt! Sean Ryan Logan Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Motorcycles
Mike Jensvold wrote: I know it's a city, which requires accepting other people's noise. But I second the question of "where are the mufflers?" Cars have to have decent mufflers, why do motorcycles get such a pass? When I rode motorcycles, I remember being scorned by my fellow riders for insisting on keeping the baffles on my pipes, not because anyone else would be offended, but because the one thing I hated about a cycle was the noise. There does seem to be some sort of unwritten rule that one removes the baffles from the bike. I do not know why that is. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / Noalternatives?
I believe the overwhelming majority of residents, be they white, african american, latino, or asian, living in even the poorest, most crime-infested neighborhoods of Minneapolis ARE law-abiding. I agree with the sentiment that has been posted on numerous occaissions on this forum that it is the few that are making in tough for the many to enjoy a reasonable level of "livability" in our neighborhoods. To suggest that a police "crackdown" on gang-related activity will impose an undue hardship on the majority of residents in these neighborhoods is I believe, inaccurate. I am starting to get the feeling that some would lead us to believe that there is a larger "conspiracy afoot". A conspiracy to reduce the civil rights of a specific group within our society. And, if we are going to attempt to "frame" our beliefs as to the true intentions of the Rev Terrill, or CM Samuels, or Mayor Rybak, based upon one statement they have made, or one action they have taken, how about allowing EVERYONE to go back throughout the careers of these individuals in public service and pick the one statement, or action they all like? For ANYONE to suggest that they "have the answers" as for what it will take for society to be able to eventually remove the "safety-net" that is currently set not low enough, makes me very suspicious. This is a very complex issue that requires a multi-faceted solution. We are not going to be able to "buy" our way out of this problem as some would suggest. We are not going to be able to remedy the problem with just a police "crack-down". And inevitably, if we are successfull, our success will not follow the path that any of us have chosen. What would have happened had when the first slave traders that showed-up in Africa done so with spears, and been faced with natives carrying guns? What would have happened had when the Spaniards showed-up in south america, they did so under the same circumstances? What would have happened had native americans been more technologically advanced than white settlers moving west? How would our world be different today? Change is occurring. It just isn't occurring quickly enough for the residents that reside-in and are being terrorized by the gang-members in their community. Nor is it occurring quickly enough for those that suggest we should just throw more money at the problem and enforce anti-discrimmination laws more aggressively. Racism and discrimmination is too a large degree, based upon preconceived notions we have of each other. And sometimes, those that are discrimminated against end-up having to play an inequitable part in changing those preconceived notions than do the ones "in-power". EVERYONE faces some sort of discrimmination on a daily basis. At times we are all either the wrong, color, the wrong sex, the wrong age, or have too little money, to achieve what we would like to achieve. The further-up you are in race, age, sex and financial standing in our society, the less likely your are to be discrimminated against. My personal belief? Assimilation is what will inevtibably facilitate the social equity we all hope to achieve. We tend to care about and have a deeper commitment to, those we have come to know personally. I LOVE what the PEACE FOUNDATION is trying (in part) to accomplish. Many of the individuals that participated in the "human chain" a few weeks back, had not set-foot in Jordan in a long, long time. Yet, they came, and they learned. Maybe they will continue to learn and care more deeply about their fellow residents that are not as fortunate as they are. Is this a bad thing? When dealing with the real world, sometimes one has to choose between the "least dirty pair of socks" when they have not done their laundry in a long, long, time. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Motorcycles
I want to chime in with Ken Bradley. I ride a Honda 550 (that I bought new in 1983) that costs me about $10 a month in gas. This particular bike is fairly quiet running. But in comparing to SUVs, I'd prefer a little noise pollution over the added exhaust emissions. I taught my kids to ride scooters and motorcycles for the gas efficiency, ease of parking and overall increased respect for the environment, roads and other drivers. Nikki Carlson Linden Hills REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Contact Sen. Steve Kelley re: sponsoring Twins Stadium legislation & running for Gov.
No Stadium Tax Coalition STADIUM UPDATE Volume 2 - Number 8 SENATOR STEVE KELLEY, CHIEF SPONSOR OF STADIUM LEGISLATION IN SENATE, ANNOUNCES RUN FOR GOVERNOR - WILL SENATOR KELLEY TRY AND SNEAK UNFAIR STADIUM BILL THROUGH IN THE CLOSING HOURS OF THE SPECIAL SESSION? Senator Steve Kelley of Hopkins, is the key sponsor in the Minnesota Senate, of legislation to tax the taxpayers of Hennepin County for a new Twins Stadium with an increased county-wide sales tax. On Tuesday, May 31st, Senator Kelley announced that he intends to run for Governor in 2006 against Tim Pawlenty. The Twins stadium bill has not received a hearing in the Senate, but if previous special sessions are any indication, stadium supporters, led by Senator Kelley, will probably try and ram this legislation thru, in the late closing hours of the special session, without any real hearing or discussion. Senator Kelley's bill would not let the voters vote if they want this tax increase, even though state law requires a referendum on any sales tax increase. Senator Kelley's position on a stadium is no different than Gov. Pawlenty's. This legislation will cost taxpayers in Hennepin County $1.1 billion dollars over the next 30 years. Senator Kelley needs to hear from voters, especially DFL'ers, that they will not support his bid to be Governor, if he attempts to pass this legislation, largely benefiting the richest man in the State, Karl Pohlad, who is worth over $2.3 billion dollars. If Senator Kelley hears from the people most likely to support him for Governor, that he should back off this foolish plan, he just might not try and pass this stadium legislation, in the dark of night. Contact: Senator Steve Kelley Room 205 - Minnesota State Capital Saint Paul, Minnesota 55101 651-297-8065 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Respectfully submitted, Dann Dobson Executive Director - No Stadium Tax Coalition 651-227-4376 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out! - Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / No
Whether one enforces laws against gangs, narcotics use/trafficking; or enforce laws against discrimination, this tactic relies on the same Achilles heal: laws. Laws are mere agreements among men, sometimes law reflects the mores of the people, sometimes it reflects the worldview of those empowered. Its not that we have too few cops, we have too many who engage in deviate behavior. Those who act outside of accepted norms of society. A moral people need no laws; do not need police, courts, or jails for they will always do what is right. No intended harm will come to another because such action would be contrary to social norms; but also against personal moral character. Is there a push to do something? Decidedly yes. Why? Perhaps as Confucius pondered " to see what is right and not to do it, is want of courage. There are many good honest courageous men and women, in civil service, in our neighborhoods and in our homes and lives who are trying to do just that. To do, rather than stand by. A mere civil servant/citizen Gregory W. Reinhardt Excelsior REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Nicollet Island tours Sat-Sun 1 p.m., other HPC summer tours
All are invited to historic walking tours of Nicollet Island that I'll be leading this weekend, SatSun, June 4-5, 13 p.m. Meet at the information kiosk across the street from the Nicollet Island Inn. No reservations needed--instead, free tickets are available first-come, first-serve about 20 minutes before the tour starts. This weekend kicks off the Minneapolis Heritage Preservation Commission's summer walking tour season at 15 historic sites throughout the city. Next is a tour of the prefabricated Lustron Houses, Wednesday, June 8, 6:30-8 p.m. (meet at Ramsey School Band Room, 50th St. and Nicollet Ave.). Other tours include: Elliot Park, Fifth Street SE, Loring Park Neighborhood, Meeker Lock & Dam, Milwaukee Avenue, City Hall, Oliver Park at Lake Calhoun, Prospect Park, Stevens Square & Loring Heights, Tangletown, the University of Minnesota's Old Campus, the Warehouse District, and W. 49th Street. Check the HPC website (http://www. ci.minneapolis.mn.us/hpc) for the full schedule, as more tours may be added. Call 673-2996 for more info. Chris Steller Nicollet Island-East Bank REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] New snitch law / Rounding-up the usual suspects / No alternatives?
Tyrone Terrill's open letter to the African American community calls on the community to support a police crackdown on gang activity. And it is possible to discern important elements of the not yet disclosed Minneapolis police crackdown plan. In addition to rounding up and locking up the usual suspects, i.e., young African American males, the police will round up those who "harbour" gang members (family members, friends, etc.). A few things to keep in mind: 1) The illegal drug trade is a big source of revenue for gangs. 2) A large percentage of arrests, convictions and incarcerations are for drug related offenses. 3) Today's Star Tribune reported on the planned merger of the State's gang and narcotic strike forces, to improve police coordination in these areas. 4) A proposed new mandatory snitch law is working its way through Congress. The proposed new law will make it a crime to not report illegal drug use or dealing to police within 24 hours of acquiring knowledge about it. The text of an E-mail from the Marijuana Policy Project about this proposed new law is at my blog site http://educationright.tripod.com/blog/index.blog?entry_id=1123151 5) Given the incredibly high proportion of African American youth (including adults 18 to 30 years of age) who are under court supervision (prison, parole, etc.), there is certainly a huge network of police informants in the African American community. Chuck Wexler, the city's out-of-town crime policy expert has been in town to brief those-who-need-to-know what up, such as high-ranking police officials, the mayor, and a few trusted leaders of the African American community. Terrill's open letter to the African American community, on St. Paul Dept. of Human Rights letterhead, isn't a lighting-bolt out of the blue. It was issued several weeks after the Star-Tribune's call for a police crackdown on gang activities. Chuck Wexler had already been in town to offer his expert advice on putting it together. And we should note that Mayor RT Rybak's resume includes being a reporter for the Star-Tribune and a Public Relations consultant. Getting a lot of African American preachers and other African American leaders to call for a police crackdown. If it was entirely Rev. Terrill's idea, I am sure that RT Rybak was quick to support it from behind the scenes. The important thing, you see, is to DO SOMETHING about the gang problem. It doesn't matter whether the strategy of choice is effective. It doesn't matter how it affects the African American community. And anyone who isn't for the latest "solution" to the gang / crime problem, is against doing "something" about it. I believe that an effective strategy to curb gang activity and gang related violence in the African American community must include steps to rapidly change conditions that motivate people to join gangs. I recommend more aggressive enforcement of laws against illegal, race based discrimination in the fields of employment, housing, education and law enforcement. -Doug Mann, King Field candidate for 8th ward city council http://educationright.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Motorcycles
Mike, I agree that some motorcycles can be very loud and annoying, and I drive one myself. I am not a fan of the loud motorcycles. Motorcycles should have to obey the same noise ordinances as cars. If your car is loud, or has limited exhaust equipment, even sound system, the police can write the driver a ticket. The same should apply for motorcycles. Mike you should not be afraid to call the police and ask them to enforce it. Having said that, motorcycles are a much more efficient, cost effective, and space effective way of commuting. I use my motorcycle to commute to downtown St. Paul. My motorcycle costs me approximately $5.50 a week for gas to drive to work. My insurance costs $50 per-year. I park in downtown St.Paul with a group of 20 to 25 cycles that take up the same amount of space as two or three cars. I ride my bike as well, and use the bus. Governor Pawlenty has increased transit prices year, after year, and cut service. Commuting by bus will cost me $5.50 a day starting July 1, and excluding the discount costs for buying passes. Metro Transit has also made sure to raise costs for the disabled and seniors as well. Governor Pawlenty sure is equatable in his distribution of cuts. He makes sure to cut from both the frail and the vulnerable. I am so glad that government spending is being controlled. Sorry, I got off subject! Mike I agree noisy motorcycles should not be allowed. Ken Mike Jensvold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Motorcycles are far more annoying than leaf blowers... but.. only 4-5 months of Motorcycle season left. Mike Jensvold "East Isles" REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls - Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: motorcycles/Where did all the mufflers go?
> I asked in an earlier post: Is there a motorcycle in Mpls. that HAS a > muffler?? Mine does and I would love to find one that is quieter but I have been told there isn't much more I can do to quiet it. I love my motorcycle but I want it to be like one of those silent ones you see in old sci-fi movies. BTW, the argument "loud pipes save lives" is wrong. I had a bike with loud pipes behind me on the highway but somehow it sounded like it was on the wrong side of me. It caused me to rely on my hearing when I shouldn't have been - I mentally mapped him where he wasn't. Robert Schmid Mpls, MN I believe that scooters are a reasonable mode of transport at > this time but > the law requires mufflers. Is the law being enforced? I posit:NO. I would > like to know if List members feel a need for more enforcement there? > > Keith Reitman NearNorth > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at > http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, > contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the > list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: > http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Motorcycles
I don't know whether this was just meant as a stick to beat the smoking ban with, or whether it was serious. If it was serious, then those motorcycles were modified to make them noisier. They should be just as citable as people with boom-cars. Unfortunately, they are probably just as likely to be cited as people with boom-cars R -- Robert P. Goldman ECCO [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Motorcycles & other city noises
There's a Harley a coupla doors down and he gets on that thing, revs it up, then TAKES OFF real fast and real loud! It makes my windows rattle as much as some of those boom cars. At least the boom cars are just passing by but that Harley comes and goes, comes and goes and most often late at night. I like motorcycles, too, but this is really annoying. And I stopped a group of about 6 kids playing in front of my house the other day. First of all, they were pulling leaves off my flowers and they were all screaming at one another merely in conversation. So I chatted with them for a bit about my pretty front yard and how I planted it for them to enjoy and how this part of the block right in front of my pretty yard and colorful house was known as "The Peace Zone". I learned all their names, told them mine, taught them the names for the flowers and plants in my yard, told them about the mural on my fence, let them swing in my hammock and just generally made friends with them. I shouted once or twice in our conversations to show them how crazy it sounds and reinforced talking in a quieter voice. My hope is that they'll honor my yard this summer and leave my things alone and also maybe that somehow that I made a good impression on them. And then an adult (obviously intoxicated) showed up to herd them back home and was yelling at the top of his lungs so ... perhaps my points fell on deaf ears?!? What really surprises and shocks me is how many really young kids are out playing alone in my neighborhood. I chatted with a little girl one day who was picking landscaping rocks from the neighbor's yard (let's ban those things, too!) and asked her to be sure they didn't end up in my yard or on my sidewalk. I asked her age she's three years old and playing all by herself in a neighborhood that houses the majority of registered sex offenders in the city! When I talked to the kids I caught throwing rocks and sticks at my dogs, they were from five to 12 years old. It's absolutely unbelievable to me how some people parent (or don't) their child(ren). ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Connie Beckers - Folwell Tired of the Noise, Tired of extra taxes, Tired of loud neighbors, Tired of City Living "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Current Edition of Mpls/St Paul Business Journal covers North Minneapolis
This is forwarded from the electronic free edition of the Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal Ray Marshall Hiawatha I'm excited to tell you that this week, the Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal features a special report on the business environment of north Minneapolis. Although the area usually gets negative headlines because of violent crimes, some business people are beginning to see opportunity on the North Side. At The Business Journal, we wanted to know what role the business community can play in addressing the market potential of north Minneapolis. Over the past two months, five Business Journal reporters talked to dozens of business leaders, public officials and economic development specialists about what needs to happen to revitalize north Minneapolis. The result is a package of stories covering commercial development, who's lending to business, notable entrepreneurs, comments from Mayor Rybak and more. See it in Friday's print edition, the June 3 issue of The Business Journal. Please reply to this email to receive a copy of the issue for $2, plus shipping and handling, or click here to see a list of retail locations. Regards, Lisa Bormaster Publisher PS--Don't miss any of the latest breaking local business news. Click here to subscribe to the print edition of The Business Journal or call 612.288.2100. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Motorcycles
Minneapolis is pristinely quiet in comparison. This is a city anyway, so that's what we get for living here, in my opinion. I know it's a city, which requires accepting other people's noise. But I second the question of "where are the mufflers?" Cars have to have decent mufflers, why do motorcycles get such a pass? Also, where is the enforcement? The same hard acceleration that makes so much noise could warrant a ticket for reckless driving. For what it's worth I was a non-smoker who didn't like the smoking ban... Mike Jensvold East Isles REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The city should outlaw Cottonwood Trees
Outlawing is one thing. Outlawing outlawing is another thing (that some here seem to favor). What I find more useful and interesting than either is outlawing outlawing outlawing, or even better, outlawing outlawing outlawing outlawing. I myself would like to join the outlaw outlaw outlaw outlaws, as soon as we write their outbylaws. --David Shove ps My solution for smoking is to in-law it - then nobody would want to do it. On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Barbara Lickness wrote: > I want the City Council and the Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board to > outlaw cottonwood trees within city limits. While attempting to paint a piece > of lawn furniture this past weekend I discovered the debris from a neighbors > cottonwood tree up the street was polluting my space and was sticking to the > surface I had just painted. I find this offensive and therefore would like > them outlawed along with buckthorn. O.K. I vented. Back to the smoking ban!! > > Barb Lickness > Whittier > > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change > the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. > If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
