RE: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
--- Bill Cullen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Carol Becker wrote: > > (I)n reality, even though taxes have declined for > large rental properties, > rents have been increasing faster than inflation. > (The Fed - report at > http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/fedgaz/05-05/Fair_Market_Rents.xls) > So it is > hard to see how these savings have been passed onto > renters. > > My response: > > Two comments. > > First, I don't believe the data you sent out. For > example, it claims, the > AVERAGE rent for a studio in Minnesota is $651 per > month. I challenge you, > Ms. Becker. Lets count the number of Studio > apartments advertised in this > Sunday's (or you pick the Sunday) newspaper. I bet > it will be difficult to > LOCATE a single studio for $651/month or more. I > rent 2 bedroom apartments > for $650/month. > > My response: > > Two comments again. > > First, if think that funding the police, fire and > libraries on the backs of > the lowest income folk in Minnesota is a good idea, > then we have nothing > further to discuss. > > Second, housing costs have skyrocketed. Most rental > buildings today are > being sold to developers/investors who are betting > that price appreciation > will continue. The buildings certainly don't cash > flow. Come on, join us. > Go buy an apartment at $120,000 per unit and then > rent it out for > $650/month. You, like many landlords today, will > realize that there are no > profits to stuff into your pockets. > > My comments: I have partially owned-operated and maintanined apartment buildings in Minneapolis and St. Paul for the last dozen or so years (the partially owned part is called a limited partnership which translates as a very limited chance to make any damn money at all). I now work out of a fifty seven unit building on Cathedral Hill with all but my three bedroom being a studio apartment. This is one of the premier neighborhoods in the Twin Cities and these units have the nine foot ceilings, nine inch cove moulding, oak floors etc. etc. The cheapest we offer is $455 and the most expensive, which is essentially a small one bedroom(think Mary Richards) is $555. I have no idea how anyone in either city can charge more for comparable space. Let me know how you do it you can. Of course at $120,000 per unit the joint would be worth almost seven million and believe me it ain't (then again, that's what I'm told). Jon Gorder Cath hill __ Yahoo! for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
On Monday, September 19, 2005, at 02:31 PM, Dorie Rae Gallagher wrote: If we were not spending huge amounts of revenue on that golden gilded library downtown we might have had more cash available for our community libraries. Referendum designated capital dollars for the new central library and renovations of the community libraries cannot be exchanged for operating dollars for the community libraries. Nearly 70% of Minneapolis voters said yes to the new central library and community library renovations. Linden Hills, Bottineau, Franklin, and Sumner have been completed. East Lake and North Regional are underway. The Walker roof (deck) replacement should be completed by the end of January, 2006. Best wishes, Laura Southeast (Como Neighborhood) Laura Waterman Wittstock Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees DFL and Labor endorsed AFSCME Mn Council 5 AFL-CIO COPE Minneapolis Building and Trades Stonewall DFL Minnesota Women's Political Caucus www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ Wittstock for Library Committee 913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414 Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
Dorie Rae Gallagher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If this is the new math coming up for the city...it won't have my vote nor my renters vote! Dorie Rae Gallagher/Nokomis How exactly do you determine who your renters vote for? Loki Anderson Downtown __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
Carol Becker wrote: (I)n reality, even though taxes have declined for large rental properties, rents have been increasing faster than inflation. (The Fed - report at http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/fedgaz/05-05/Fair_Market_Rents.xls) So it is hard to see how these savings have been passed onto renters. First of all...I have yet to see any type of a tax reduction. My taxes have risen every year on my property. My rents, on the other hand, have not gone up in 3 yearsmy renters are having tough times. They all work and their paychecks are not enough to cover the bills with student loans, car expense, etc. I could start taking Section 8 and make about $100+ more each month and rest assured that my rent would be there on the fourth butthat is another drain on taxpayers and why should they be paying for my business? Carol continued: So the real question it seems is that was it worth not having enough money for cops and libraries and firefighters to put more money in the pocket of rental property owners? This really frosts mewe don't have enough money for cops, libraries and firefighters due to money going where?? If we were not spending huge amounts of revenue on that golden gilded library downtown we might have had more cash available for our community libraries. If we had not spent money on building...I said building meaning developers, and all the cute little 3 story condos with retail space, we would have had enough money for police and firefighters. The only reason I am making a profit on my rentals is because I have had them for so long my mortage is no longer high and the rents have gone up in the past 15 years. Look at the paper and see what the rents are in the Powderhorn, Phillips, and northside $550 to $650.00. Rents over in the uptown area that used to go for $800 are down to $650. Section 8 would have given $1200 for a home that I charged $750.00 and that was what the market could bare. Fifteen years ago...my rents were $375/400..today they are $650...go figure the increase. Handouts??!! Let's look at some buildings sitting down by the river, TIF money, Target, Mill Crown... If this is the new math coming up for the city...it won't have my vote nor my renters vote! Dorie Rae Gallagher/Nokomis REMINDERS 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
Carol Becker wrote: (I)n reality, even though taxes have declined for large rental properties, rents have been increasing faster than inflation. (The Fed - report at http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/fedgaz/05-05/Fair_Market_Rents.xls) So it is hard to see how these savings have been passed onto renters. My response: Two comments. First, I don't believe the data you sent out. For example, it claims, the AVERAGE rent for a studio in Minnesota is $651 per month. I challenge you, Ms. Becker. Lets count the number of Studio apartments advertised in this Sunday's (or you pick the Sunday) newspaper. I bet it will be difficult to LOCATE a single studio for $651/month or more. I rent 2 bedroom apartments for $650/month. Your relying on flawed data. Second, why compare rental costs to the general inflation index? Shouldn't you compare it to the housing market in general? Housing costs have increased some 60% in the last five years, while the rental market (according your data, which I believe is high), has increased 24%. Carol continued: So the real question it seems is that was it worth not having enough money for cops and libraries and firefighters to put more money in the pocket of rental property owners? My response: Two comments again. First, if think that funding the police, fire and libraries on the backs of the lowest income folk in Minnesota is a good idea, then we have nothing further to discuss. Second, housing costs have skyrocketed. Most rental buildings today are being sold to developers/investors who are betting that price appreciation will continue. The buildings certainly don't cash flow. Come on, join us. Go buy an apartment at $120,000 per unit and then rent it out for $650/month. You, like many landlords today, will realize that there are no profits to stuff into your pockets. You can claim the tax savings is not being passed onto the tenants, but that is horribly short-sighted. The reality is that all expenses are passed onto consumers and (if a market is competitive) large profits do not exist. We can split hairs and present data all day long. I stand by the two points I made: Rental units are the most affordable housing available in the Twin Cities and they continue to pay a higher property tax rate than homeowners. Your desire to return to the days where renters pay 3x the tax rate of homeowners shows a focus to take advantage of our lowest income earners. I don't agree. Bill Cullen Whittier. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
First, I want to thank Bill Cullen for reading my website and engaging in a debate about tax policy. I think it is very important that we talk about taxes in our community because we need to talk explicitly about the impacts that the tax system creates. Bill Cullen wrote: Carol Becker's website says: (A)lthough property values have been going up, the tax base really hasn't because commercial and rental property are paying less. My response: Hogwash. I own multiple rental properties and not one has seen a decline in property taxes. NOT ONE! Increased valuations have offset any change in the mill rate. This may be true if 1) you have had rental property that was 1-3 units, which is treated differently under the tax system than larger rental property (it is treated much more like a home) or 2) if your property has been increasing in value faster than the tax breaks have been reducing taxes, which has been happening with many of the properties that used to be very low value. Rental property on the extremely low end has seen valuation increases of 500% or 600% or even more which would make the owner rich but would also increase the taxes. In the end it depends on your individual property. I have written about the tax system generally. But let me show you a typical rental property: 16 unit rental property in Whittier: Value in 1995: $425,000 Value in 2005: $1,263,500 % change in 10 yrs: 297% Taxes in 1995: $21,023.34 Taxes 2005: $23,318.28 % change in 10 yrs: 11% Annual change in taxes 1.1% Now let me compare that to my house: Carol's bungalow: Value in 1995: $84,000 Value in 2005: $216,500 % change in 10 yrs 257% Taxes in 1995 1,437.52 Taxes 2005: 2,506.32 % change in 10 yrs: 74 % Annual change in taxes 7.4% So let me say this in summary: An average apartment had its value triple over ten years with an annual tax increase of 1.1%, less than inflation. My house had an increase in value of about two and a half times and an annual increase in taxes of almost 7.5% a year. What you dance around is the fact that apartment buildings used to pay THREE TIMEs as much taxes as homeowners (per thousand in value). The adjustment our state legislators made was to move apartment buildings down close to homeowners -- but apartments still pay more. How come you don't say that? The tax system is extremely complex and I could probably write a book on all of the subtleties of the Minnesota tax system. The piece I wrote was focused on the issues of homeowners and I didn't try to address issues of rental or commercial properties. It is true that rental properties pay more. Rental property is perceived both as a home and a business. As such it has always paid a tax somewhere between commercial properties and homes. Carol Becker website continues: (T)he City is taxing us more. Tax collections from 2001 to the Mayor's recommended 2006 have gone up 43% in real dollars over the last six years. My response: So what you are really saying... Is that City expenditures are going up faster than the rate of inflation (you said inflation was 18% during those years). I made no statements about the City budget (which is another whole kettle of fish) only about the dollars levied, which have gone up faster than inflation. Carol's website hints that homeowners should be complaining about the rental property tax equalization. If you take Carol's advice, Please respond to the following questions: 1) Rental property is the most affordable housing in Mpls. Do you think it is wise to increase the cost of such housing? The best way of an individual building wealth is to own their own home. The state has chosen to have the lowest tax levels for owner homes to help persons build wealth. This has been successful as Minnesota has the highest home ownership rates in the country. The reductions made to rental and commercial properties have worked against this goal by shifting a larger amount of tax onto homeowners. Also, there is no free lunch. The reductions made to rental and commercial properties contributed to the lack of funds for police, firefighters, libraries, snow plowing, and parks, which has made Minneapolis a poorer place to live. As my neighbors are in fear of crime in a way that I have not heard since I moved here 13+ years ago, I become increasingly of the option that the tax cuts made to commercial and rental property haven't served the City well. There is no cutting tax without cuttings services or shifting burden to someone else. 2) Apartment dwellers still pay a higher percentage of taxes on the property evaluation. If their current higher tax rate is not enough, how much higher taxes do you think they should pay? Your statements assume that all the property taxes get passed onto renters. But in reality, even though taxes have declined for large rental properties, rents have been increasing faster than inflation. (The Fed - report at http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/fedgaz/
RE: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
I apologize for not getting responses back to folks who posted questions or issues from my website discussion on taxes. I've been a little busy running for office but wanted to get back to those questions. Mark Anderson wrote about the tax discussion I put up on my website www.carolbecker.net I wanted to thank him for spending the time to do it. But there are some items on the web site that are deceptive: I apologize if anything was deceptive. The Minnesota Tax System is amazingly complex and I had to glaze over quite a bit to keep things even somewhat understandable to the lay person. Nothing insidious intended. 1) You state that homeowner taxes recently increased because the Legislature gave tax breaks to commercial and rental property. Actually commercial and rental property still pay proportionately more tax than homeowners, so it is more accurate to say that homeowner tax breaks were decreased by the Legislature. It is absolutely correct that commercial and rental properties have and continue to pay more than homeowner properties. And if you start with an assumption that every property should pay the same, it would be correct to state that another way of looking at the changes over the last several years as reducing the tax breaks, if you assume that the system was "giving breaks" to homeowners. I would argue that the tax system was designed to tax businesses more and homeowners less for several reasons. One is to encourage homeownership, the greatest way for the individual middle class person to build personal wealth. Another is to export a portion of taxes to outside of the state. 47% of the commercial property tax and 89% of the industrial property tax is actually paid by non-residents. Also businesses are revenue-generating entities unlike homeowners. I would also note that rental properties have always been viewed as somewhat of a hybrid of business and homes and have been taxed somewhere between commercial and residential. This only applies to larger rental properties (4+) units. 2) In conjunction with #1, you omit the fact that business taxes are ultimately paid by individuals too, only they are hidden taxes, making it much easier to raise these taxes. There is an argument in economics that businesses should not be taxed because they technically do not exist. Businesses are simply a construct and wealth should be taxed by the ultimate owner of the wealth and not by these constructs. There is another argument that the only place that wealth is actually created is businesses and that it is the act of creation of wealth that should be taxed. Our tax system taxes both. Also, of course, business taxes are much more regressive than almost any other kind of tax. See following link from the Minnesota Department of Revenue. http://www.taxes.state.mn.us/taxes/legal_policy/research_reports/content/inc idence.shtml. See in particular, the 2005 tax incidence study, Table 3-6, on page 46 of the report, page 58 on the downloaded Adobe Acrobat file. First off, I have to say that I am ecstatic that another citizen read the state's tax incidence report. It is very interesting reading if you are interested in questions of tax equity. Business taxes may be regressive but I think the question shouldn't be limited to the business tax. The question should be the regressiveness of the whole state tax system. If you are not into reading the whole Tax Incidence Report, what I can tell you is that if you are in the lowest 10% of income earners (making about $8400) you paid an effective tax rate of about 18% and if you are in the top 10% you pay an effective tax rate of 10.7%. If you are in the top 1%, making over $325,000, your effective tax rate is 9%, about half of the poorest citizens. The problem with regressively is the bottom line of the whole system and could also be addressed by tweaking the income tax or sales tax. 3) You imply that if everyone's property valuation goes up, then everyone's taxes will also go up. Actually, an individual's tax will only go up if one's valuation increases as a proportion of the total. If everyone's valuation increases at the same rate, no one's taxes will change unless the budget also changes. This is a mistake I see made quite often, even in explanations in the Strib. I apologize if I left this impression and will have to go and rewrite if that is what your understanding was. You are correct. If everyone's valuations go up equally and the same amount is levied and no changes are made to the distribution of the tax, then no one's taxes should go up, regardless of how high everyone's valuations go up. I will try to clean this language up. Thanks again Mark for the great questions. Carol Becker Longfellow Candidate for the Board of Estimate and Taxation Go Geeks! REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROT
RE: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
Carol Becker wrote: The Minnesota tax system is very complex and frankly most people don't understand how it works. So I have put up two pages on the tax system up on my website. The first is about why property taxes for the average citizen are going up. This is under the button "Taxes up?" The second talks about how the nuts and bolts of how the property tax system works (warning, it is a bit complex even though I tried to simplify it). For people who don't want to wade through the whole thing though, I started it with who you need to talk to when to affect different portions of the tax system. These are both available at www.carolbecker.net Just click through the splash page at the front and you will see these buttons. Hopefully this will help folks have a more realistic debate about funding of municipal services. Mark Anderson: That is a good web site. You have done a public service. But there are some items on the web site that are deceptive: 1) You state that homeowner taxes recently increased because the Legislature gave tax breaks to commercial and rental property. Actually commercial and rental property still pay proportionately more tax than homeowners, so it is more accurate to say that homeowner tax breaks were decreased by the Legislature. 2) In conjunction with #1, you omit the fact that business taxes are ultimately paid by individuals too, only they are hidden taxes, making it much easier to raise these taxes. Also, of course, business taxes are much more regressive than almost any other kind of tax. See following link from the Minnesota Department of Revenue. http://www.taxes.state.mn.us/taxes/legal_policy/research_reports/content/inc idence.shtml. See in particular, the 2005 tax incidence study, Table 3-6, on page 46 of the report, page 58 on the downloaded Adobe Acrobat file. 3) You imply that if everyone's property valuation goes up, then everyone's taxes will also go up. Actually, an individual's tax will only go up if one's valuation increases as a proportion of the total. If everyone's valuation increases at the same rate, no one's taxes will change unless the budget also changes. This is a mistake I see made quite often, even in explanations in the Strib. You perpetuate the myth by saying that one cause of the tax increases is the aggregate increase in house values. That isn't true unless commercial and rental valuations do not increase at the same rate. You later talk about decreasing commercial valuations, but don't make it clear that such lagging valuations must occur for residential taxes to go up. I'm sure you understand how it works, but you don't explain it clearly. It's a good web site, but it does need some tweaking. By the way, I enjoyed our conversation at De La Salle last week. Even though I disagree with you on a number of policy issues, I do plan to vote for you. We need people with your skills and knowledge on the Tax Board. Please try to hold back the big spenders on our various boards. Our current increases of 8% per year may already be chasing people out of the city -- and I've seen many proposals from lots of candidates that would increase spending a lot more than that. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
One of the interesting things about the Republican/Ventura property tax changes (reduced rates on commercial, industrial and some residential rental property) is that the rental residential tax break was designed to only help the larger property owners. There was NO reduction in tax rates for owners of duplexes or triplexes. sheldon . Sheldon Mains Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis, Minnesota .From Jason S., Harrison. > . > Nonetheless, my own analysis of the tax burden would lead me > to believe the range within the rental-market tax base itself > is quite wide with the largest relief having gone to the > largest developers. Hence, those dollar-weighted averages in > published reports do not equally display the smaller landlord > rental environment which is likely not as favorable. > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
After reviewing the specific pages "Taxes Up?" and "How do property taxes work?" I was quite pleased and surprised by the clear, broad explanation of how Mpls' tax burden has changed over the last say..ten years. However, given the explanation, I was more surprised to see her endorsed by the DFL. The "set up" clearly creates a Mpls-home-owner beware environment. Accordingly, I then moved to read why she is running; because she thinks she deserves the post. She has worked hard enough, attained the requisite higher-education degrees associated with such advancement and it's now "her turn." Aside from describing, once again quite well, the taxation environment, we need an opinion of that development. My take away from the website is that Ms. Becker indeed loves Mpls just as much as us over-taxed residents but will only later clearly describe why we needed to be taxed even more. I hope I am wrong. As to Mr. Cullen's retort, I sense I would probably end up being on his side of the debate after all is said and done. Nonetheless, my own analysis of the tax burden would lead me to believe the range within the rental-market tax base itself is quite wide with the largest relief having gone to the largest developers. Hence, those dollar-weighted averages in published reports do not equally display the smaller landlord rental environment which is likely not as favorable. Moreover, while I favor the entrepreneurial spirit that likely accompanies becoming a landlord, today I do not believe renting is the most affordable housing one can find. This statement MUST include the caveats that 1) mortgage rates are at historical lows and 2) financial institutions WANT you to own a home 3) income and/or credit history are NOT the hurdle they once were. For these reasons, renting is NOT financially smart given the environment TODAY. Many know that these conditions may likely change. After all, why do I see so many "for rent" signs relative to a few years ago? It is because, at the margin, those who pursue home ownership are equally successful in attaining it; thus forcing those pursuing the "no money down," "positive cash flow" rental business to work just a little harder to fill the space with tenants. Jason S. Harrison REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
Carol Becker’s website says: (A)lthough property values have been going up, the tax base really hasn't because commercial and rental property are paying less. My response: Hogwash. I own multiple rental properties and not one has seen a decline in property taxes. NOT ONE! Increased valuations have offset any change in the mill rate. What you dance around is the fact that apartment buildings used to pay THREE TIMEs as much taxes as homeowners (per thousand in value). The adjustment our state legislators made was to move apartment buildings down close to homeowners -- but apartments still pay more. How come you don't say that? Carol Becker website continues: (T)he City is taxing us more. Tax collections from 2001 to the Mayor's recommended 2006 have gone up 43% in real dollars over the last six years. My response: So what you are really saying... Is that City expenditures are going up faster than the rate of inflation (you said inflation was 18% during those years). Carol's website hints that homeowners should be complaining about the rental property tax equalization. If you take Carol's advice, Please respond to the following questions: 1) Rental property is the most affordable housing in Mpls. Do you think it is wise to increase the cost of such housing? 2) Apartment dwellers still pay a higher percentage of taxes on the property evaluation. If their current higher tax rate is not enough, how much higher taxes do you think they should pay? Regards, Bill Cullen Whittier landlord. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] How taxes work. Why taxes are going up.
I've attended a number of candidate forums and frankly, much of the discussions have come down to money - how we don't have enough of it. Not enough money to keep the libraries open more than three days a week, to restore all the cops that have been cut, to keep the parks open as much as kids need them, to improve the snow plowing, and to do other things that citizens need. The Minnesota tax system is very complex and frankly most people don't understand how it works. So I have put up two pages on the tax system up on my website. The first is about why property taxes for the average citizen are going up. This is under the button "Taxes up?" The second talks about how the nuts and bolts of how the property tax system works (warning, it is a bit complex even though I tried to simplify it). For people who don't want to wade through the whole thing though, I started it with who you need to talk to when to affect different portions of the tax system. These are both available at www.carolbecker.net Just click through the splash page at the front and you will see these buttons. Hopefully this will help folks have a more realistic debate about funding of municipal services. Carol Becker Longfellow Candidate for the Board of Estimate and Taxation . REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
