Re: [Mpls] Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
Peter T Schmitz wrote: I agree with David. While I disagree with Wizard Marks more often than not, I have every reason to believe that she'd be an excellent addition to the library board. The first comments on this thread posted about her were every bit as unfair as Ms. Mark's comments about former councilmember Lisa McDonald this past weekend. WM: I didn't make any comments about Lisa McDonald on this list. WizardMarks, Central REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
I agree with David. While I disagree with Wizard Marks more often than not, I have every reason to believe that she'd be an excellent addition to the library board. The first comments on this thread posted about her were every bit as unfair as Ms. Mark's comments about former councilmember Lisa McDonald this past weekend.---Peter Schmitz On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Dave Piehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The subject of appointed or elected boards is a lot > more complicated than that. In my opinion, if every > position were elected, the sheer volume of positions > would be overwhelming to people causing confusion and > possibly even discouraging people from voting. It > isn't exactly anti-democratic to appoint positions, as > long as they are appointed by elected officials. I > say that because I believe that when people vote for > individuals, it's more than just a popularity contest > - they are voting for the ideals the candidate > espouses. One could infer that folks appointed by > elected officials would at least embrace the ideals > most likely to further the agenda of the elected > official, so I guess what I'm saying is that appointed > individuals (if appointed by elected officials or > bodies) have the same legitimacy inherent in an > elected position or body. Several ultra-conservatives > have used the "appointed" argument in an attempt to > discredit the legitimacy of the European Parliament, > because representatives of each country are appointed > rather than elected - those reps are appointed by the > governments of each member country, all of which > happen to be strong constitutional democracies... > > While it's an odd thought to think that someone who > lost an election might ultimately be appointed and get > the position anyway, but there are other ways to look > at this. For one thing, if the person has taken the > time and effort to become a candidate, they've > demonstrated a level of interest exceeding that of the > general public. If the former candidate got more than > a few votes, then they are at least popular with a > portion of the voters. Further, I think the process > cannot exclude anyone for reasons other than gross > misconduct without the process itself becoming > illegitimate. > > I didn't vote for the candidate referenced in the > original post, and may or may not in the next election > depending on circumstances at that time. However, it > is her right to pursue an appointment just the way any > one of us could have, and apparently about 30 people > already have. > > David Piehl > Central > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >There are many applicants and I have heard >through the grapevine it will again, most likely, be a person of color. Which color? N.I. Krasnov Loring Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
The subject of appointed or elected boards is a lot more complicated than that. In my opinion, if every position were elected, the sheer volume of positions would be overwhelming to people causing confusion and possibly even discouraging people from voting. It isn't exactly anti-democratic to appoint positions, as long as they are appointed by elected officials. I say that because I believe that when people vote for individuals, it's more than just a popularity contest - they are voting for the ideals the candidate espouses. One could infer that folks appointed by elected officials would at least embrace the ideals most likely to further the agenda of the elected official, so I guess what I'm saying is that appointed individuals (if appointed by elected officials or bodies) have the same legitimacy inherent in an elected position or body. Several ultra-conservatives have used the "appointed" argument in an attempt to discredit the legitimacy of the European Parliament, because representatives of each country are appointed rather than elected - those reps are appointed by the governments of each member country, all of which happen to be strong constitutional democracies... While it's an odd thought to think that someone who lost an election might ultimately be appointed and get the position anyway, but there are other ways to look at this. For one thing, if the person has taken the time and effort to become a candidate, they've demonstrated a level of interest exceeding that of the general public. If the former candidate got more than a few votes, then they are at least popular with a portion of the voters. Further, I think the process cannot exclude anyone for reasons other than gross misconduct without the process itself becoming illegitimate. I didn't vote for the candidate referenced in the original post, and may or may not in the next election depending on circumstances at that time. However, it is her right to pursue an appointment just the way any one of us could have, and apparently about 30 people already have. David Piehl Central __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
There are over 1200 apointees that the Governor makes - many of those to commissions. There is an entire list on the city website - I believe it is over 75. Anyway, when I do candidate training and meet with folks interested in running for office I alsays start by asking what they've done, in their neighborhoods, in their neighborhood group or on any of these commissions. People need to get experience before they just jump into running for office - a commission is a good place to start. In regards to Wizard - that wasn't fair and is not allowed on this list. However, don't fret about too much. There are many applicants and I have heard through the grapevine it will again, most likely, be a person of color. Annie Young East Phillips REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
Hello Tom & Mpls Folks:I believe that most appointments such as the library board vacancy have an application process that is open to any Minneapolis resident. I am sure Wizard Marks was one of many residents that applied for the Library Board and was chosen based on her qualifications and passion for our city's libraries. We will have elections soon and you can speak with your vote at that time. Ken Bradley Corcoran Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
RE: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
The state of Minnesota has dozens of boards and commissions to which people may be appointed. I have seen the number but cannot recall it exactly but it is dozens. City's have still more boards and commissions for which people are appointed. Many - in fact most - of these are volunteer posts. Having been both an appointee (Mpls Charter Commission, State Board of Technical Colleges) and an appointer (appointed people to six boards, seven advisory commissions, when I was state commerce commissioner)I must ask: how in heavens name do you put people on these boards and without using appointments I don't know Ms. Marks. But the fact that she ran and lost for a seat on the Library Board should absolutely not be held against her. There is a vacancy and someone is going to be appointed to fill out that term - why should her previous candidacy disqualify her? Whoever is appointed will complete this term and then have be elected if they choose to run for the seat. Voters will then be able to say yes or no. Jim Bernstein Fulton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Welling Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed! I don't like it all when people are appointed to boards and commissions. It circumvents democracy. It's especially disturbing to me when someone who ran for an elected position and lost tries to get appointed to the same position a few years later. Here's a current example: Wizard Marks (I believe her real name is Maureen) ran for the Library Board a few years ago and did not make a good showing at the polls. Now there is a vacancy and she is trying to circumvent the electorate and be appointed. I have to say, based on information and opinions contained in her posts, I would not vote for Ms Marks. Wizard is a very frequent poster on this list, so I'd like to hear her reasoning. Tom Welling CARAG ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
Tom, This is a rather unfair and misleading transition from a general policy question (which is actually incorrect) to an individual criticism (which borders on a personal attack), and really comes off as framing it as the first in order to do the second. If that's not your intention, you may want to state it differently. I think the question of appointing versus electing is a good one, not one that I agree with, but certainly worth discussing. Generally, in my opinion, for appointed boards and commissions they are done that way because the individuals we elect are given the trust that they will find people who can do the work and can be effective in getting the job done. But I'd like to hear your position on why all boards and commissions should be elected. Now specifically regarding this situation, a position has opened up on the Library Board because one of it's members (I believe George Garnett) has stepped down. As with most boards and commissions, when there is a vacancy, the appointing authority can fill the vacancy to finish the term. It is not circumventing democracy, but rather the SOP so that the work can continue. If you have elections everytime a vacancy comes up, you can say that the people get to choose, but how valid is that choice. You have a truncated timeline for campaigning and for voters to really hear the candidates, and during that time, the seat remains vacant and less work is accomplished, and less perspective is at the table. By all means present a counter position, but let's be honest about the situation. This isn't circumventing anything and certainly not one individual doing that. As for your personal feelings about Wizard, which really have no place in the policy or process debate, I would suggest either contacting the other Board members and the Mayor to make your feelings know or else putting yourself in the running in situations like this. But the appointing is by no means improper or circumventing anything. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] If Voters Reject You, Get Appointed!
I don't like it all when people are appointed to boards and commissions. It circumvents democracy. It's especially disturbing to me when someone who ran for an elected position and lost tries to get appointed to the same position a few years later. Here's a current example: Wizard Marks (I believe her real name is Maureen) ran for the Library Board a few years ago and did not make a good showing at the polls. Now there is a vacancy and she is trying to circumvent the electorate and be appointed. I have to say, based on information and opinions contained in her posts, I would not vote for Ms Marks. Wizard is a very frequent poster on this list, so I'd like to hear her reasoning. Tom Welling CARAG ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
