Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis DFL Convention Turnout
On Tuesday, May 17, 2005, at 12:37 AM, Tim Bonham wrote: The number is calculated by a formula giving 1 delegate for every 25 DFL votes in that precinct in the most recent election. So there were 4443 delegate spots available before the precinct caucuses. Attendees there filled 3303 (not ) of them, so that became the maximum number of delegates for the city convention. This formula is a standard one, that has been used statewide for many years to allocate DFL delegate spots to precincts. At the City DFL Central Committee meeting last December, there was an attempt to change this to 1 delegate per 50 votes, and another to base this on votes for City candidates, not President, etc. Both of these would likely have resulted in a reduced number of delegate spots. (Both had some support from City DFL officers, the ones who had to actually put on these conventions.) But the central committee voted to stay with the 1 per 25 formula, and thus create the largest democratic convention in the world. Direct government, via referendum or town hall is the most representative. 25 to 1 is less so and comprises the delegate model of representation. It isn't the electorate but it is a wonderful model of caucus and convention to select political leadership and standard bearers for the parties. But then the candidates go before the voters - to the referendum. We have this model in Minnesota and I think it works quite well. The stadium issue on the other hand questions whether representative government works or should there be direct government. This is exacerbated by the state's position that it must give permission in referenda of local tax matters. That's a big issue now because local government is being squeezed badly by state behavior to cut revenues for vital local services. Thanks Tim for the explanation. I hope we can do more of this so listers can see how the system works. Best, Laura Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis DFL Convention Turnout
I'm curious as to how the determination is made that the city DFL convention is going to consist of 3,333 delegates elected from the precincts. In other words: why that number and not, say, 1,000, or even 500? The number is calculated by a formula giving 1 delegate for every 25 DFL votes in that precinct in the most recent election. So there were 4443 delegate spots available before the precinct caucuses. Attendees there filled 3303 (not ) of them, so that became the maximum number of delegates for the city convention. This formula is a standard one, that has been used statewide for many years to allocate DFL delegate spots to precincts. At the City DFL Central Committee meeting last December, there was an attempt to change this to 1 delegate per 50 votes, and another to base this on votes for City candidates, not President, etc. Both of these would likely have resulted in a reduced number of delegate spots. (Both had some support from City DFL officers, the ones who had to actually put on these conventions.) But the central committee voted to stay with the 1 per 25 formula, and thus create the largest democratic convention in the world. Tim Bonham, Ward 12, Standish-Ericsson REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis DFL Convention Turnout
On Monday, May 16, 2005, at 04:00 PM, Steve Cross wrote: I suspect that if the size of the convention were reduced, it would have several salutary affects. One would be that more likely that more of the number of people elected would be actually show up. (So, rather than having a theoretical convention of 3,333 and guessing that 900 will show up and being surprised by it when 2,000 show up, electing, say, 500 might mean that 490 would actually show up.) Second, I think that having representatives rather than a self-selecting democracy would yield better results. (But, then, I'm a strong believer of Madisonian representatives and not a democracy.) Third, a smaller convention would take away the element of having to be strong just on the factor of crowd control. And, fourth, a smaller convention would open up many more venues for where it can be held -- and that is important when getting the money to pay for the hall is a serious question. Reducing the number of delegates would make crowd control easier and be more cost-effective, but I respectfully disagree that it would yield better results. I've lived in other places, and this is the first time I've participated in a convention from beginning to end, because usually the party insiders so dominate the process that it's very hard for new people to get involved. If we're going to teach people that "decisions are made by those who show up", we have to let those who take the trouble to show up be involved in the decision-making. And we made a lot of decisions on Saturday, even if we didn't endorse a mayoral candidate. Yes, it took about 4 hours too long, but it should be possible to make the system more efficient without excluding people. Becca Vargo Daggett Seward REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Minneapolis DFL Convention Turnout
I'm curious as to how the determination is made that the city DFL convention is going to consist of 3,333 delegates elected from the precincts. In other words: why that number and not, say, 1,000, or even 500? My question is based on my observation that at any precinct caucus virtually anyone who wants to be a delegate to the ward and city conventions gets to be a delegate. And few people are even relegated to the status of alternate. At every caucus I've ever attended, the presider is begging for volunteers just to fill the slots. My observation is based on my experience in the couple of precincts that I have lived in and whether or not it is a presidential or off-year caucus and convention. Is it, somehow, magic for the DFL to allow virtually anyone who wants to go to higher level conventions to go? The result of virtually anyone who wants to go gets to go makes the resulting assembly very democratic (with a small "d") and less republican (with a small "r). I suspect that if the size of the convention were reduced, it would have several salutary affects. One would be that more likely that more of the number of people elected would be actually show up. (So, rather than having a theoretical convention of 3,333 and guessing that 900 will show up and being surprised by it when 2,000 show up, electing, say, 500 might mean that 490 would actually show up.) Second, I think that having representatives rather than a self-selecting democracy would yield better results. (But, then, I'm a strong believer of Madisonian representatives and not a democracy.) Third, a smaller convention would take away the element of having to be strong just on the factor of crowd control. And, fourth, a smaller convention would open up many more venues for where it can be held -- and that is important when getting the money to pay for the hall is a serious question. A smaller convention may be heresy for the DFL. However, I think that the DFL might want to consider the virtues of republicanism (again, small "r") over democracy (again, small "d"). Steve Cross Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
