Re: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
As stated before, arrests are one set of data. There are other sources, perhaps harder to come by that estimate the amount of money in the trade and thus giving a glimpse at the size of the customer base. There is no possibility that the extent of the drug trade is the arrest record. When Jonathan says suburban buyers are purchasing in open air drug markets, he is referring to the entire customer base, not just arrests. Without a modicum of security the drug trade would fade quickly. Thus most buyers get away with their purchases. Looking more closely at this perspective reveals the bigger picture and takes us into those arguments of how hard it is to police the trade. Best, Laura Waterman Wittstock Southeast Mpls On Monday, May 16, 2005, at 11:39 AM, Mark Wilde wrote: "No one is saying that no drug dealers or buyers live in the City or even in the neighborhoods, but the primary demand for drugs in impacted neighborhoods comes from suburban buyers who are purchasing their products in open air drug markets." Jonathan Palmer Victory Allan Knoxran a report for all people arrested on narcotics charges from May 1, 2004 through April 30, 2005 1,836, or 71%, listed Minneapolis as their home town. 745 or 28% listed a city other than Minneapolis. The majority of drugs bought and sold in Minneapolis are by people who live in Minneapolis. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
Michael Atherton wrote: > Most importantly, I would like to point out that it might > be that the majority of those ARRESTED are Blacks who claim > to live in Minneapolis and those not arrested are suburban > Whites. Also, keep in mind that only a fool would give an out-of-state address and open themselves up to Federal investigation and charges of interstate distribution. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
Mark Wilde Writes: In my continuing effort to bust this outsider myth I turned to Allan Knox, an analyst for the Minneapolis Police Department. He ran a report for all people arrested on narcotics charges from May 1, 2004 through April 30, 2005 In that time there were 2,969 individuals arrested in Minneapolis listing NARC as the charged violation. 389 did not list a residence city. 1,836, or 71%, listed Minneapolis as their home town. 745 or 28% listed a city other than Minneapolis. Now, Allan reminded me that one statistic does not a case make, but my point still stands: The majority of drugs bought and sold in Minneapolis are by people who live in Minneapolis. A Star Tribune article this morning backs up my point as well. 31% of boys and 17% of girls in 12th grade in Minneapolis public school report being sold, given or offered illegal drugs at school. Stopping a few idiots driving around Chicago Ave looking for drugs will not even begin to address the real problem. Dennis Plante Responds: There is absolutely no way you can draw the conclusion you have from the statistics you've cited. Even if you were able to get a break-down (of the offenses) from the arrest records, they would be inaccurate. ALL of the street-level dealers are smart enough to stash the bulk of their drugs somewhere other than on their person, so that if they do get caught, it is typically for simple possession of a useable amount. Also, it is important to note that MANY of the problematic individuals that are picked-up for possession do NOT give-out their correct address when arrested. In many cases, to do so, would violate a lease agreement for the property, or jeapordize their relationship with the individual they were living with. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
Mark Wilde wrote: > Now, Allan reminded me that one statistic does not a > case make, but my point still stands: The majority of > drugs bought and sold in Minneapolis are by people who > live in Minneapolis. This is an incorrect conclusion. Truly, the only conclusion you can draw is that the majority of people ARRESTED for drugs in Minneapolis identify their city of residence as Minneapolis. There are still a lot of "ifs" here. Most importantly, I would like to point out that it might be that the majority of those ARRESTED are Blacks who claim to live in Minneapolis and those not arrested are suburban Whites. I'm just trying to keep this discussion on an even keel. Personally, I think this issue is not particularly relevant to the solution. If you want to blame somebody for intercity drug problems blame our government, not the buyers or the sellers. It's the government that has created a marketplace for "illegal" drugs. > A Star Tribune article this morning backs up my point > as well. 31% of boys and 17% of girls in 12th grade > in Minneapolis public school report being sold, given > or offered illegal drugs at school. This statistic has no causal relevance to the question of the residence of drug buyers at all. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
> In my continuing effort to bust this outsider myth I > turned to Allan Knox, an analyst for the Minneapolis > Police Department. He ran a report for all people > arrested on narcotics charges from May 1, 2004 through > April 30, 2005 > > In that time there were 2,969 individuals arrested in > Minneapolis listing NARC as the charged violation. 389 > did not list a residence city. > > 1,836, or 71%, listed Minneapolis as their home town. > 745 or 28% listed a city other than Minneapolis. > > Now, Allan reminded me that one statistic does not a > case make, but my point still stands: The majority of > drugs bought and sold in Minneapolis are by people who > live in Minneapolis. You conclusion is fallacious. The data only shows that the majority of people ARRESTED for narcotics live in Minneapolis. It shows nothing about buying or selling. I conclude from this data that the police are letting suburban drug users get away. (And that conclusion is equally unsupported by the statistics.) > > A Star Tribune article this morning backs up my point > as well. 31% of boys and 17% of girls in 12th grade > in Minneapolis public school report being sold, given > or offered illegal drugs at school. And the statistics for suburban, exurban and rural schools IN COMPARISON are...? Robert Schmid Central REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
You only make the point that the majority of ARRESTS are Minneapolis residents. This stat does not address the buyers they were trying to serve when arrested. Did the Star Tribune break down offered v. given or sold? Anyone can offer but are they actually selling or boasting? (Doubt if too much giving is going on.) Bill Dooley Kenny REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Most drug arrests are local residents
"No one is saying that no drug dealers or buyers live in the City or even in the neighborhoods, but the primary demand for drugs in impacted neighborhoods comes from suburban buyers who are purchasing their products in open air drug markets." Jonathan Palmer Victory In my continuing effort to bust this outsider myth I turned to Allan Knox, an analyst for the Minneapolis Police Department. He ran a report for all people arrested on narcotics charges from May 1, 2004 through April 30, 2005 In that time there were 2,969 individuals arrested in Minneapolis listing NARC as the charged violation. 389 did not list a residence city. 1,836, or 71%, listed Minneapolis as their home town. 745 or 28% listed a city other than Minneapolis. Now, Allan reminded me that one statistic does not a case make, but my point still stands: The majority of drugs bought and sold in Minneapolis are by people who live in Minneapolis. A Star Tribune article this morning backs up my point as well. 31% of boys and 17% of girls in 12th grade in Minneapolis public school report being sold, given or offered illegal drugs at school. Stopping a few idiots driving around Chicago Ave looking for drugs will not even begin to address the real problem. Mark Wilde Windom Park __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
