RE: [Mpls] "Where's RT?" Not in the House!
Jim Graham Writes: Dennis Plante and a couple of RT supporters are completely wrong when they say that this is the same as what occured when RT ran against Sharon. Rybak's greatest lead over Sharon was only 1.4%! Rybak was overjoyed to get that virtual tie. Some of us begged him to hold on for several more rounds to get an endorsement, but he refused because of fear that the another vote would put him back trailing Sharon. But do not be mistaken, RT Rybak never received 50% of the vote in that convention. There was no tie yesterday, Peter McLaughlin won every ballot and had more than a majority of the Democrats present voting for him. At the conclusion of voting Saturday Peter McLaughlin lead by nearly 10% and was on his way to endorsement. The shame was to allow someone who had no respect for the DFL and the endorsement process to prevent the one candidate who respected and desired that endorsement from getting it. Dennis Plante Responds: I don't believe I ever stated that I felt it was the same thing Jim. In fact, I believe I concisely pointed-out where I felt the events were different. It is perfectly fine that you and I have differing views as to who would make a better mayor this time around. Please make note of the fact that I have never said anything dispsaraging about Peter, as it isn't so much about Peter would make a poor choice (in my mind) for mayor, as it is that I feel RT would make a good one. The truth of the matter. There are some (and it is a small group) of dyed-in-the-wool DFL'ers hat were offended by RT's actions on Saturday and will not vote for him this fall. But the events of Saturday will be largely forgotten come this fall and it will boil down-to the everyday, average citizen to determine who our next Mayor will be. Some facts: RT ran against a seated (and DFL endorsed) mayor last time and publicly stated that he would run even if he lost the DFL endorsement RT publicly supported an oppnent of an endorsed DFL candidate in the special 3rd ward election RT publicly stated that he would run (this year) even if he did not receive the DFL endorsement Is this a case of not listening to the voters? Or is it a case of listening more closely than the party to the voters? I guess we will all have to wait until this fall to find-out who is out-of-touch. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] "Where's RT?"
Jim Graham wrote: The people who pushed McLaughlin to run for Mayor were those same RT supporters and workers from four years ago. Most of us do not even recognize RT's present supporters. RT says that now he will go out to the Neighborhoods, the heart of his support. It shows how out of touch RT really has become due to the shield his staff has erected around him. Those neighborhood folks that supported him have not been able to get through that shield for over three years. It was those same neighborhood leaders, who RT had abandoned during his administration, that kept RT from winning on Saturday. He had better go to the business offices and Bond companies where he expects to get support. But if I were him I would not expect support from the workers who serve Minneapolis, they know how ineffective the Mayor's office has become and ineffective it has made the City over the last four years. The police, the firefighters, the street-workers and even those working in the offices, keep saying the same thing. "Get us a new Mayor." Mark Anderson: Jim, I think you overstate the influence of neighborhood leaders and activists on the actions of voters, particularly in the final election in November. Perhaps RT doesn't have the support of a lot of the activists from four years ago, but that amounts to only a few hundred votes. My memory from four years ago was that the number of activists for SSB vs. RT was about equal in the last election, and yet Rybak won pretty handily. I think the point has been previously made that Rybak received a lot of support from conservative non-DFLers in his last election. I think this is correct. Republicans haven't been able to elect a candidate in this town for many years because they can only garner support of 20-30% of the voters. Nevertheless if these Republican leaning folks vote as a block for the more fiscally responsible candidate, they can easily determine an election between two contenders that are evenly split in their DFL support. I think RT is counting on support from outside the DFL to put him over the top. I count myself as part of that 20-30%, since I vote Republican more often than not. I am disgusted with all of RT's broken promises, but he does seem to have done pretty well with governing the city in difficult financial circumstances. He is at least trying to keep our tax increases to a minimum. I can't imagine voting for McLaughlin, who never saw a government project he didn't like. He doesn't seem to have gotten the message that we're still trying to pay for all the overspending in the nineties; we don't need more of the same. A vote for McLaughlin is a vote to bring back the SSB regime. Someone previously suggested Lisa McDonald. Can she be drafted into the race at this late date? I'll take her any day over these two. On a related note, I was surprised to see some posts to this List implying that publicly financing the stadium is a Republican-type action. I always figured that buying a stadium was just one more government project that DFLers like to foist upon the public as an "investment" in the community. Pretty similar to LRT and the Guthrie. It may be that Republican politicians support government financing of the stadium as often as DFLers, but I think it matches the DFL philosophy more closely. I certainly haven't seen MORE support for it by Republicans than Democrats. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 'Where's RT?' Not in the House!
My old friend Dyna said, > Peter led but did not win the race because he did a better > job of packing the convention with his supporters. Peter will face a > much more uphill battle in the upcoming elections, as voter's ask > "Peter who" and higher turnout in R.T.'s strongest precincts will win > reelection for him. > Although I agree with some of her comments, I think the delegates' demographics were less homogeneous than that. Although surely both candidates did their best to encourage precinct caucus turnout I think Peter had more of the "never dream of missing a precinct caucus" core democrats. At least that was certainly true in my ward, the 8th. We had a large number of great and great-great grandmothers and grandfathers that we seated on the floor at the front of the bleachers. And when we in the 8th were sent to the distance and the heights, we did so with heads held high and clear memories. Although I appreciate Alex Eaton's attempt to fall on his sword on this one, it's not Alex that will be remembered, it's all those names and faces at the front, Brian Melendez in particular. The reason that was given for singling out the 8th ward to move was that we had the largest number of delegates seated. This means that the party chose to punish those who turned out and those who registered and seated themselves in a timely manner. We had the center spot on the convention floor. Wouldn't it have made more sense to simply have those in the back move on back farther up into the bleachers and expand the space for everybody? The 8th Ward was seated in the bleachers last time, too. What kind of a party will evolve from decisions that punish those who show up in good numbers and those who show up on time? Most of those great-grandmothers and grandfathers do their devotions twice a day, some of them five times a day. They would no more miss their precinct caucus than they would miss services at their church or temple or mosque. Their beliefs prohibit them from cursing the people who forced us back but I will admit to wishing it wasn't so. With every step as I climbed up or down those bleachers, the pain in my ailing right knee screamed out. But I didn't let it stop me and the 8th Ward won't be stopped either as our youth and our elders and our labor and progressive and environmental activists unite to communicate to the entire city the following message: RT lost the convention for the same three reasons he'll lose the election. Education, Public Safety and NRP. David Finke Central Neighborhood REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] "Where's RT?"
Laura Wittstock writes, "---Opinion of one person maybe. Mondale remains highly respected and sought after as a source of great political authority. Rybak's greatest lead over Sharon was only 1.4%! The mayor won 3 to 1 over Sharon Sayles Belton with Minneapolis voters." I think it might have been the opinion of more than one Democrat on Saturday. Of course Democrats, and in particular DFL'ers, have always given very little "authority" to so called "Political Authority". While Laura and I may be old enough to clearly remember Walter Mondale, to anyone under 35 years old Walter Mondale is only the father of someone who headed the Met Council under Jesse, or someone who came in and failed to fill the shoes of Paul Wellstone. Even a true giant such as Hubert Humphrey would have had a hard time using "Political Authority" on Minneapolis voters. Of course Humphrey never would have. Those with the actual "political authority" probably have learned to wisely use that political authority on national politics. By Laura's numbers of Sharon losing 3 to 1 with Mondale's support, perhaps McLaughlin should be glad Mondale is supporting RT. Sounds like an omen of things to come. 1.4% was the greatest RT lead at the Minneapolis Convention four years ago. RT went on to those Minneapolis vote numbers Laura quotes. A sitting Mayor not being able to secure party endorsement is the kiss of death, and also an indicator of the approval level that the Mayor has lost with the voters. RT's present supporters may have jumped on the band wagon to late to realize that the heart of RT's support were jumping off the other side. That the very ones, who pulled the wagon and drove it four years ago for RT Rybak, had decided that wagon was just too heavy a load of baggage, and not carrying anything of any use to their families. The people who pushed McLaughlin to run for Mayor were those same RT supporters and workers from four years ago. Most of us do not even recognize RT's present supporters. RT says that now he will go out to the Neighborhoods, the heart of his support. It shows how out of touch RT really has become due to the shield his staff has erected around him. Those neighborhood folks that supported him have not been able to get through that shield for over three years. It was those same neighborhood leaders, who RT had abandoned during his administration, that kept RT from winning on Saturday. He had better go to the business offices and Bond companies where he expects to get support. But if I were him I would not expect support from the workers who serve Minneapolis, they know how ineffective the Mayor's office has become and ineffective it has made the City over the last four years. The police, the firefighters, the street-workers and even those working in the offices, keep saying the same thing. "Get us a new Mayor." RT's dream was to be Mayor of Minneapolis, the neighborhoods dream was to have a good Mayor. The Neighborhoods fulfilled RT's dream, but RT forgot to fulfill the Neighborhood's dream. RT could have easily become the most popular Mayor in Minneapolis history. Instead he forgot what got him there, and appointed a staff that doomed him to one term. Tim Bonham has those numbers Laura. Compare the two conventions and then honestly tell us that RT did as well as Sharon at the convention. Jim Graham, Ventura Village, Sixth Ward of Minneapolis A wise saying for those still on the RT wagon: "If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction. Get off!" REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] "Where's RT?"
On Sunday, May 15, 2005, at 09:36 PM, gemgram wrote: Clearly Walter Mondale has become irrelevant to politics in Minneapolis. It is unfortunate that he has attempted to use that past political capital with the DFL to influence Minneapolis Politics. I'd say this is an unfounded statement. Opinion of one person maybe. Mondale remains highly respected and sought after as a source of great political authority. Rybak's greatest lead over Sharon was only 1.4%! The mayor won 3 to 1 over Sharon Sayles Belton with Minneapolis voters. Laura Waterman Wittstock Minneapolis, MN 612-387-4915 www.laurawatermanwittstock.com http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] "Where's RT?" Not in the House!
Clearly Walter Mondale has become irrelevant to politics in Minneapolis. It is unfortunate that he has attempted to use that past political capital with the DFL to influence Minneapolis Politics. It taints the shine of the regard he once had from the DFL. Now all that he gives is a photo opportunity and a chance for TV coverage for a candidate he supports. Walter probably should stay out of local politics where he knows nothing about them. Jim, are you talking about the same Walter Mondale that debated Norm Coleman right off the stage but a couple years back? And are you trying to tell us that our senator who sponsored the Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, etc. is a poor judge of who should carry on his work and the DFL's great and honorable traditions? If so, you owe Walter and R.T. apologies! There was no tie yesterday, Peter McLaughlin won every ballot and had more than a majority of the Democrats present voting for him. Peter's widest margin was barely a hundred votes- peanuts in a city with over 100,000 DFL voters. At the conclusion of voting Saturday Peter McLaughlin lead by nearly 10% and was on his way to endorsement. The shame was to allow someone who had no respect for the DFL and the endorsement process to prevent the one candidate who respected and desired that endorsement from getting it. At the conclusion of voting there had been no movement in several ballots, and we would have been deadlocked all night. When RT walked out a chant started of "Where's RT?" "Where's RT?" "Where's RT?" But RT had turned his back on the DFL and its members. Turning his back on campaign commitments and neighborhoods lead many who had been his most ardent supporters in the first campaign to turn against him yesterday. RT's campaign against Neighborhood "citizen participation" and NRP also had many feeling that RT had betrayed them. R.T. may have realized the obvious: the convention was deadlocked. Many of us may disagree with some of McLaughlin's issues, but at least we can argue and talk to him knowing he is going to tell us the truth. I finally managed to corner Peter and asked how he would fund the 200 cops and firefighters that he blames R.T. for losing. His "answer"- a one time twenty five million dollar paper transfer from merging Minneapolis pension programs into he states. That one time transfer would keep all those firefighters and cops on the job for maybe a year and a half... Sharon really did not lose last year, it was a virtual dead heat that amazed RT Rybak. But even that tie showed Sharon's feet of clay. Rybak LOST yesterday and that clear loss shows that even with the Mayor's office, a ton of political favors, and a few has been politicians supporting him he has lost the community support he once enjoyed so much of. Peter led but did not win the race because he did a better job of packing the convention with his supporters. Peter will face a much more uphill battle in the upcoming elections, as voter's ask "Peter who" and higher turnout in R.T.'s strongest precincts will win reelection for him. from Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] "Where's RT?" Not in the House!
Clearly Walter Mondale has become irrelevant to politics in Minneapolis. It is unfortunate that he has attempted to use that past political capital with the DFL to influence Minneapolis Politics. It taints the shine of the regard he once had from the DFL. Now all that he gives is a photo opportunity and a chance for TV coverage for a candidate he supports. Walter probably should stay out of local politics where he knows nothing about them. Dennis Plante and a couple of RT supporters are completely wrong when they say that this is the same as what occured when RT ran against Sharon. Rybak's greatest lead over Sharon was only 1.4%! Rybak was overjoyed to get that virtual tie. Some of us begged him to hold on for several more rounds to get an endorsement, but he refused because of fear that the another vote would put him back trailing Sharon. But do not be mistaken, RT Rybak never received 50% of the vote in that convention. There was no tie yesterday, Peter McLaughlin won every ballot and had more than a majority of the Democrats present voting for him. At the conclusion of voting Saturday Peter McLaughlin lead by nearly 10% and was on his way to endorsement. The shame was to allow someone who had no respect for the DFL and the endorsement process to prevent the one candidate who respected and desired that endorsement from getting it. When RT walked out a chant started of "Where's RT?" "Where's RT?" "Where's RT?" But RT had turned his back on the DFL and its members. Turning his back on campaign commitments and neighborhoods lead many who had been his most ardent supporters in the first campaign to turn against him yesterday. RT's campaign against Neighborhood "citizen participation" and NRP also had many feeling that RT had betrayed them. Those attempts have been very thoroughly discussed on this "List" as they were going on. Using the Mpls List to expose those attempts probably saved NRP and certainly affected the Mayor's attempt to kill citizen participation. Rybak's campaign passed out literature yesterday that claimed that RT Rybak had saved NRP. Neighborhood activist were furious about this bold faced lie. Everyone knew that the Mayor's office had lead the fight to kill NRP and neighborhood empowerment. It is truly amazing, RT attempts to kill NRP and claims he saved it. RT claims 6000 housing units that were accomplished by others. Claims to have provided for public Safety when he has cut the force to dangerous levels. And the list goes on and on. Many of us may disagree with some of McLaughlin's issues, but at least we can argue and talk to him knowing he is going to tell us the truth. Most of us resent being told by a smiling face that it is raining when the Mayor's office is doing something else on our backs! Rybak seems to think that someone pointing out his campaigns bold faced lies is negative campaigning. It is not negative, it's the truth! The truth is hell and that truth is going to sink RT's ship when the general public starts looking at it. The real problem with RT's campaign is that those who were there are willing to point out that truth. Sharon really did not lose last year, it was a virtual dead heat that amazed RT Rybak. But even that tie showed Sharon's feet of clay. Rybak LOST yesterday and that clear loss shows that even with the Mayor's office, a ton of political favors, and a few has been politicians supporting him he has lost the community support he once enjoyed so much of. Once you have lost that public trust you don't come back. Four years ago Martin Sabo said that, and said that Sharon's campaign was dead. He proved prophetic. Yesterday RT showed that he had dug himself a political grave that he will have a hard time crawling out of. One of RT's former supporters drew on the Cosby Show for humor yesterday when he said, "We brought him into the political world, and now we are going to take him out of it!" I think he might prove correct. Those who worked so hard to bring RT to a surprise win that even he could not believe, will probably take him out of office. The perception of RT's promise got him into office, and failed promise will probably get him out. Jim Graham, Ventura Village "The rarest of gems, with the greatest clarity, and with the greatest brilliance is not the diamond. The rarest of all gems is the truth. Yet as scarce as truth is, the supply has always far exceeded any demand for it. In fact it may well be the lest desirable commodity in the Universe. Ask any politician." REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract _
