Re: Not too busy are ya....................
If we are going to make the school systems "more accountable" then we should compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Comparing Edina to any inner city school should be done on the basis of how well Edina does in educating their South East Asian students to Minneapolis South East Asian students. (Substitute every economic class and ethnicity there). In addition to that, how does the suburban school system deal with students who are Autistic, Dyslexic or other problems? About 10 years ago I know of one parent who had to leave the Edina school system because their idea of how to deal with dyslexia was to have the student retake second grade. That parent found another school system with a program to help dyslexic students. So if a suburban school has a failure when their only second grade student of recent Ethiopian extraction fails reading and math, then we should defund ALL of their programs because they are obviously failing a whole group/class of students right? You mentioned all sorts of reasons why parents, teachers and students couldn't be held accountable (sarcastically I assume). What is your reason for not making yourself accountable? How do you escape this particular "passing of the buck"? While I so enjoy being chided by snotty liberals who disagree with my opinion, I do have to ask: where, in your world, does the accountability lie then??? Certainly the students can't be held accountable; they're just children! And the teachers? Impossible. Too under paid! The School District or School Board then! But there's too many kids to keep track of and some of them don't even speak english!! The parents? They're just working stiffs. Any other suggestions out there rather than the almighty buck in this discussion?? Rich McMartin snotty liberal living in Bryant Neighborhood.
Re: Not too busy are ya....................
So, if some guy on this list is a "snotty liberal" then you are, presumably, a what? Condescending conservatiuve? Adenoidal archconservative? Just plain twit? You could start with yourself and be accountable for your mouth--or fingers in this case. Wizard Marks, Central j burns wrote: While I so enjoy being chided by snotty liberals who disagree with my opinion, I do have to ask: where, in your world, does the accountability lie then??? Certainly the students can't be held accountable; they're just children! And the teachers? Impossible. Too under paid! The School District or School Board then! But there's too many kids to keep track of and some of them don't even speak english!! The parents? They're just working stiffs. Any other suggestions out there rather than the almighty buck in this discussion?? J Burns Cleveland From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Not too busy are ya Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:36:05 -0500 It is a shame we can't deprive those stupid little bastards of those sweetheart jobs at SA, where their indecision over the cash register costs hard-working folks like us at least 15-20 seconds of precious time per day. Maybe if we turn off the funding spigot and class sizes grow, they'll be forced to spend more time at home studying, especially if we rachet up the test regimen--accountability, don't cha know. With friends like J. Burns, the Boy Scouts don't need any enemies. Britt Robson Lyndale _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
RE: Not too busy are ya....................
For newer members (and old ones who need a reminder) - Two of our most important list rules state: 4. No insults, threats, and inflamed speech for the sake of personal argument are allowed. 5. One-on-one arguments, disagreements, and disputes of a personal nature must be taken off list. Please, everyone, cease the name-calling NOW or risk getting expelled from the forum. And even if someone else starts it, it's YOUR responsibility not to continue it. David Brauer List manager, Minneapolis-issues PS It's everyone's responsibility to read the full rules at: http://www.e-democracy.org/mpls-issues/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of wizardmarks Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Not too busy are ya So, if some guy on this list is a "snotty liberal" then you are, presumably, a what? Condescending conservatiuve? Adenoidal archconservative? Just plain twit? You could start with yourself and be accountable for your mouth--or fingers in this case. Wizard Marks, Central j burns wrote: While I so enjoy being chided by snotty liberals who disagree with my opinion, I do have to ask: where, in your world, does the accountability lie then??? Certainly the students can't be held accountable; they're just children! And the teachers? Impossible. Too under paid! The School District or School Board then! But there's too many kids to keep track of and some of them don't even speak english!! The parents? They're just working stiffs. Any other suggestions out there rather than the almighty buck in this discussion?? J Burns Cleveland From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Not too busy are ya Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:36:05 -0500 It is a shame we can't deprive those stupid little bastards of those sweetheart jobs at SA, where their indecision over the cash register costs hard-working folks like us at least 15-20 seconds of precious time per day. Maybe if we turn off the funding spigot and class sizes grow, they'll be forced to spend more time at home studying, especially if we rachet up the test regimen--accountability, don't cha know. With friends like J. Burns, the Boy Scouts don't need any enemies. Britt Robson Lyndale _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: Not too busy are ya....................
Regarding small charter schools vs larger k-8 elementary schools there are a few points to keep in mind. One has to do with collateral educational support services. The school library, media center, music instruments, gymnasium equipment, and janitorial services. Consider the library: each school must have a minimum set of books regardless of student body size - so the library is not arithmetically proportional to student body. One could go on to dissect the other things in the list, but you get the point. The problem some people have with the schools are that some people perceive that the schools are failing in their mission. What frequently gets left out of the discourse is that the schools are not in total control of the students. Has a child had a good nights sleep and a good breakfast. Have the parents been fully supportive of their childs homework environment - do they take the child to the library, do they participate. A child is in school for about 6 hours and somewhere else for 18 hours. Well, I could wax on and repeat what other have said numerous times. From my catbird seat, I can say the schools are doing a good job with the raw material they have been given. Although I don't have all the data in the world at my fingertips, I do know that atleast one child out of the 19 in my daughter's first grade last year at Ramsey was held back. As a parent I don't know exactly precisely what the concrete benefits of a small school are (besides being able to be closed down conveniently) separate from small classrooms. There is the community feel, the "knowing everyone" thing, but I mean in terms of the academic experience. Charter schools have a lot going for them, including that they are chosen by parents who took the time to find out about them in the first place. But there are a number of resource difficulties that come up as you go below various plateau's in school size. Also charter schools have one distinct cost that regular schools don't (in general) - leasing their space. And so on - I think it's just like anything else - there are a number of groups of kids who are best served by charter schools, and I'm really glad our greater community includes a huge number of them (and 20 more or so new each year, lately). But for many of us the huge behemoths are just fine, thank you: with their diverse range of people and programs and learning opportunities. The school system prohibits discrimination, and the boy scouts have mandated discrimination. They are responding by tolerating but not promoting that organization, in the hopes of putting pressure on them (along with many other school systems and other groups across the country) so that the boy scouts will cease this amazingly hurtful policy and become open again to all who would benefit from them. And as far as the making change comment, I remember working at McDonalds while I was in High School - I'm sure I didn't always make the best argument for my school either, due to exhaustion, preoccupation, annoyance, boredom. Now the schools have to not only respond to populations affected by every societal ill but also guarantee the performance of its participants in every facet of their lives 24/7? Geesh! No but really, generalizations are hard to respond to effectively. Claire Stokes Hiawatha (imagine if you try shutiing down a 1000 student behemoth that allows failing students to pass..). jon kelland bryant John Ferman Harriet Avenue Kingfield Neighborhood Minneapolis Ward 10 Pct 10 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
