Re: Cluster Getting and Putting!
Unless you are willing to pay a great performance price you could build it yourself... the Queue Sharing Groups / Queues on z/OS are not only stored in the CF, but also DB2 is used... So on Unix either using Oracle or DB2 you can map your queues to database tables and then they are available from anywhere... you could still have the occasional stranded message (i.e. queue manager goes down, before the database picked it up), but in theory it can be done... Keep dreaming Hubert! Without dreamers the world would be a different place today!!! :-) Michael -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lovett, Alan J Verzonden: vrijdag 30 januari 2004 10:01 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: Cluster Getting and Putting! Dream on Herbert, but avoid dreaming about locks, and guaranteed _once_ only delivery! Regards, Alan Alan Lovett [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * +44 (01253) 6 88311 Mob.* +44 (07768) 210500 Fax * +44 (01253) 6 88156 E* [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kleinmanns, Hubert Sent: 29 January 2004 08:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Alan, I agree, it is just an idea, how shared queues may eventually be realized in the far future on a system other than S/390. I know, that nothing similar to a coupling facility exists at the moment for AIX or other Unix boxes. Concurrent cluster means only, that disks may be shared between to or more boxes and are accessible at the same time (using raw devices, not file systems I think). Using such disk space instead of shared memory (shared between several servers) would be not very fast, but maybe it could work (let me have a dream ;-) ). To my mind, the main advantage of clustering is the simplifying of MQ administration. That means, you need not to define remote queues or every channel connection manually - clustering takes over these actions. Load balancing and fail-over are more or less "side-effects", but not to compare with workload management on mainframes and fail-over mechanisms like SYSPLEX or HACMP. But the tracing of message flow becomes not easier at all by using MQ clustering. Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: Lovett, Alan J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 14:20 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi, Neither am I, but s/390 queue sharing relies on its coupling facility (a mix of shared memory, custom hardware and layers of fancy software) to host the queues and manage the locks. As far as I am aware, HACMP 'only' shares disk arrays and network connections. Don't expect queue sharing on AIX without some mechanism for shared memory. In the future, anything might happen, but queue sharing on non-s390 platforms is _very_ unlikely in the forseeable future (IMHO). Regards, Alan -Original Message- From: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kleinmanns, Hubert Sent: 28 January 2004 10:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Sid, I am not an IBMer, but what you mean is what I know as shared queues. They are available since MQ 5.2 - unfortunately only on mainframes. You need something like memory or disks, shared to several systems. Maybe concurrent cluster on HACMP could be a solution (sometime in the future)? Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General
Re: Cluster Getting and Putting!
Dream on Herbert, but avoid dreaming about locks, and guaranteed _once_ only delivery! Regards, Alan Alan Lovett [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * +44 (01253) 6 88311 Mob.* +44 (07768) 210500 Fax * +44 (01253) 6 88156 E* [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kleinmanns, Hubert Sent: 29 January 2004 08:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Alan, I agree, it is just an idea, how shared queues may eventually be realized in the far future on a system other than S/390. I know, that nothing similar to a coupling facility exists at the moment for AIX or other Unix boxes. Concurrent cluster means only, that disks may be shared between to or more boxes and are accessible at the same time (using raw devices, not file systems I think). Using such disk space instead of shared memory (shared between several servers) would be not very fast, but maybe it could work (let me have a dream ;-) ). To my mind, the main advantage of clustering is the simplifying of MQ administration. That means, you need not to define remote queues or every channel connection manually - clustering takes over these actions. Load balancing and fail-over are more or less "side-effects", but not to compare with workload management on mainframes and fail-over mechanisms like SYSPLEX or HACMP. But the tracing of message flow becomes not easier at all by using MQ clustering. Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: Lovett, Alan J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 14:20 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi, Neither am I, but s/390 queue sharing relies on its coupling facility (a mix of shared memory, custom hardware and layers of fancy software) to host the queues and manage the locks. As far as I am aware, HACMP 'only' shares disk arrays and network connections. Don't expect queue sharing on AIX without some mechanism for shared memory. In the future, anything might happen, but queue sharing on non-s390 platforms is _very_ unlikely in the forseeable future (IMHO). Regards, Alan -Original Message- From: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kleinmanns, Hubert Sent: 28 January 2004 10:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Sid, I am not an IBMer, but what you mean is what I know as shared queues. They are available since MQ 5.2 - unfortunately only on mainframes. You need something like memory or disks, shared to several systems. Maybe concurrent cluster on HACMP could be a solution (sometime in the future)? Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
AW: Cluster Getting and Putting!
Hi Alan, I agree, it is just an idea, how shared queues may eventually be realized in the far future on a system other than S/390. I know, that nothing similar to a coupling facility exists at the moment for AIX or other Unix boxes. Concurrent cluster means only, that disks may be shared between to or more boxes and are accessible at the same time (using raw devices, not file systems I think). Using such disk space instead of shared memory (shared between several servers) would be not very fast, but maybe it could work (let me have a dream ;-) ). To my mind, the main advantage of clustering is the simplifying of MQ administration. That means, you need not to define remote queues or every channel connection manually - clustering takes over these actions. Load balancing and fail-over are more or less "side-effects", but not to compare with workload management on mainframes and fail-over mechanisms like SYSPLEX or HACMP. But the tracing of message flow becomes not easier at all by using MQ clustering. Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: Lovett, Alan J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 14:20 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi, Neither am I, but s/390 queue sharing relies on its coupling facility (a mix of shared memory, custom hardware and layers of fancy software) to host the queues and manage the locks. As far as I am aware, HACMP 'only' shares disk arrays and network connections. Don't expect queue sharing on AIX without some mechanism for shared memory. In the future, anything might happen, but queue sharing on non-s390 platforms is _very_ unlikely in the forseeable future (IMHO). Regards, Alan -Original Message- From: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kleinmanns, Hubert Sent: 28 January 2004 10:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Sid, I am not an IBMer, but what you mean is what I know as shared queues. They are available since MQ 5.2 - unfortunately only on mainframes. You need something like memory or disks, shared to several systems. Maybe concurrent cluster on HACMP could be a solution (sometime in the future)? Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
AW: Cluster Getting and Putting!
Sid, You would already know this, but just throwing my 2Cents here. One of the main advantages why MQ Clusters exist is Load Balancing, of course among other things. Having just a Single Cluster queue wouldn't really utilize the actual benefit of Clustering and it would be like a simple case of remote queue pointing to a local queue at the destination end. Now in this case, a Get (IBM modifying the code) is not impossible, but defeats the purpose of Clustering. And if you have the same clustered queue on more than one node, then the queue resolution becomes a pain. Of course, not to mention the overhead of information stored in the cache. But again, the whole point of load balancing would go down the drain if Get was introduced as part of clusters. Just my view. May be someone from IBM could throw some more insights. :) Cheers Kumar -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: Cluster Getting and Putting!
we have the same scenario could you send me any answers you get from IBM responders Dave Adam Supervalu Home Office Project Specialist (952) 828-4736 [EMAIL PROTECTED] A lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 01/28/2004 12:12 AM Please respond to MQSeries List To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
Re: Cluster Getting and Putting!
Hi, Neither am I, but s/390 queue sharing relies on its coupling facility (a mix of shared memory, custom hardware and layers of fancy software) to host the queues and manage the locks. As far as I am aware, HACMP 'only' shares disk arrays and network connections. Don't expect queue sharing on AIX without some mechanism for shared memory. In the future, anything might happen, but queue sharing on non-s390 platforms is _very_ unlikely in the forseeable future (IMHO). Regards, Alan -Original Message- From: MQSeries List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kleinmanns, Hubert Sent: 28 January 2004 10:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Sid, I am not an IBMer, but what you mean is what I know as shared queues. They are available since MQ 5.2 - unfortunately only on mainframes. You need something like memory or disks, shared to several systems. Maybe concurrent cluster on HACMP could be a solution (sometime in the future)? Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
Re: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting!
ours is on the mainframe but due to the 64k (63k IBM restriction) in the coupling facility it cannot be a shared queue and I am sure due to the size and longevity, the coupling space costs would keep it as a cluster queue Dave Adam Supervalu Home Office Project Specialist (952) 828-4736 [EMAIL PROTECTED] A lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic -- "Kleinmanns, Hubert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 01/28/2004 04:48 AM Please respond to MQSeries List To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: AW: Cluster Getting and Putting! Hi Sid, I am not an IBMer, but what you mean is what I know as shared queues. They are available since MQ 5.2 - unfortunately only on mainframes. You need something like memory or disks, shared to several systems. Maybe concurrent cluster on HACMP could be a solution (sometime in the future)? Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
AW: Cluster Getting and Putting!
Hi Sid, I am not an IBMer, but what you mean is what I know as shared queues. They are available since MQ 5.2 - unfortunately only on mainframes. You need something like memory or disks, shared to several systems. Maybe concurrent cluster on HACMP could be a solution (sometime in the future)? Regards Hubert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2004 07:13 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Cluster Getting and Putting! Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
Cluster Getting and Putting!
Howdy All, This question is really only directed to members of the list who are with IBM. If putting to a cluster is global and gets are local, is it likely to change in the future so that gets are global if only one instance of a cluster queue exists in the cluster? Sid Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive
