Re: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
OT:
On 2/8/06, Björn Krombholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another
analogy to the programming: The task is to print the numbers from 1 to
10. Let people discuss the best solution, you would get proposals
like:
a) print 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
[argument: it's the fastest way to do it!]
b) for ( i = 0 to 10) { print i }
[argument: it's more flexible!]
c) i=0; do { print i; i = i + 1 } until ( i 10 )
...
Well, a is the only correct solution :) Or there are not correct
solutions if you define 'from 1 to 10' in another way ;)
--
Jan van Thiel
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Re: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
On Feb 7, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Don Redman wrote: (anyone who has seen us two in person, will, of course, object ;-) ). That bitch just called me fat!! (at least your parens are balanced :-) ) -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 01:38:19 +0100, Beth wrote: [Beth] I think there is some confusion from the end user as to how the checklist is to be summarized. Some people simply don't know the effect on the community, or the amount of programming needed. They are not programmers, or they haven't thought about the impact on the community. Therefore it's a very open and diffictul to interpret thing for your novice user to truly forge forth and say this has said impact. [/beth] It is difficult for everyone. Even the combined knowledge and brainpower of all experts here on mb-style could not avoid the SG5Disaster, we simply forgot that albums would become VA and what consequences this had. [Beth] I don't believe I mentioned that before due to lack of cultural knowledge of the main style people. In fact, I may be stepping on toes by responding here. Often times I've felt I shouldn't comment on style issues, due to being new. So, if that's the case.. By all means, just ignore the letter and maybe drop me a personal note to butt out. :D [/beth] Not at all! I think the StyleCouncil (whatever this will be) needs to open up and be less elite. So join in, and please step on our toes. You will of course recieve comments every once in a while, but else should you learn ablut the culture? DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:08:33 +0100, Robert Kaye wrote: On Feb 7, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Don Redman wrote: (anyone who has seen us two in person, will, of course, object ;-) ). That bitch just called me fat!! Or myself skinny. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
[Beth] I don't believe I mentioned that before due to lack of cultural knowledge of the main style people. In fact, I may be stepping on toes by responding here. Often times I've felt I shouldn't comment on style issues, due to being new. So, if that's the case.. By all means, just ignore the letter and maybe drop me a personal note to butt out. :D [/beth] [Don Redman]You will of course recieve comments every once in a while, but else should you learn ablut the culture? [/Dob Redman] [Beth]Ack! My bad choice of style/linguistics, that was sort of run together. The cultural (I meant countries lived in) aspect was in regards of the chat times and getting everyone together. I don't know where everyone is from, and time zones can be very difficult to mesh together for meeting in live chat. [/beth] [original comment from Beth] The one problem I see with the chat session is the conflict of time schedules for people in differing countries. I don't believe I mentioned that before due to lack of cultural knowledge of the main style people. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
On Feb 7, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Björn Krombholz wrote: You can't compare those two in general. A normal bug fix means repairing a broken thing, that was supposed to be implemented correctly in the first place. A style issue is like adding new features, and that's far more complicated and even more as the style guideline is part of MusicBrainz interface between the database and the user. A bug is an objective fact, where with a known input the expected output is different from the real output. So you know what you have and you know what you want, something in between is broken. It is fixed, when expected and real output become identical. A style issue is a process that involves (1) finding the expected output (how should the data look like, so it is easy to handle in all affected aspects?) _and_ (2) implementing the thing in the middle in a way, that its output matches the results of phase (1). Very true -- however, when I last spoke with Don, he expressed his wishes more like: I wish we could try out possible style issue solutions the way we test bug fixes on test.mb.org. That is not to say that we should use the bug process for style issues, but that style issues should be rolled out on a test basis to let people see the actual impact of the proposed solution. And that makes sense, I think. And now some more general thoughts: 1. We're dealing with a lot of pent up frustrations from previous SC/ Style dude systems that weren't working so well anymore. So, I think part of our frustrations towards the Secretary stem from that and once we work through those and show that the new process is working, we'll find a smooth rhythm for working out style issues. Everyone please be a patient for a little longer. 2. As I mentioned above, rolling out style issues and bugs on test should be done more frequently. Luks already has root on test.mb.org and I would be willing to give that to fuchs as well and instruct both on how to update the staging server. Luks Fuchs: you wanna? 3. As far as the process for style changes is concerned: Does it really matter in what forum this happens in? What if a style discussion starts in mod notes, migrates to a wiki page and then gets formally presented to the secretary? As long as basic requirements for defining the problem, outlining the pros and cons and perhaps illustrating how the fix would look, does it matter where it is done? Perhaps we should define WHAT should be part of a style proposal and now HOW a style proposal should look. 4. Forming consensus: I don't think we've been forming consensus for a long time and as Fuchs points out -- this is not really possible with our size. We're now playing a game of politics: You can't make everyone happy. Every action will leave some happy people, some pissed off people and lots in between. When we talk about 'forming consensus' I think the reality of it looks a lot more like a utilitarian approach: How can we make the most number of people happy? I'm not really suggesting we changed anything -- I think this is mostly a matter of perception and using the right terminology. Just some thoughts on the current discussions, which I think are very exciting. We have difficult social systems to develop and we have a lot of intelligent people here who are contributing towards that goal. I think this is very exciting -- before the net you would largely see these things in action when some government was forming -- a rare occurrence. To be part of a social group that constantly reinvents itself as the demands placed on it change, is really cool. I have faith that in due time we will establish systems that will work for the long haul. -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
