Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
Trying to get this proposal back on track... :) On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Chad Wilson chad.wil...@gmx.net wrote: On 7/03/2010 2:56 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: I think the fear is there'd be tons of URLs linked, but without any context, those URLs don't give much, other than that you know there's some news article about the artist on the other end. However, if the AR description field could be displayed next to each URL AR for that type, that field would seem to work perfectly to address some of this concern and describe just what news article was on the other end of each such URL AR. Dev impact: It wouldn't really make sense to implement this type of description display on the current server code, but this would seem to entail only some minor additional template handling (specific to this AR type?) for the AR display page template on the NGS server. Plus, if it were added, esp universally, that so-far useless AR description field would actually now have some useful purpose. :) Brian Chad, would this address your concerns? As I understand the proposal, If it's the former, I think the proposal/guidelines should specifically say Do not link to individual articles about an artist/release, or something similar. would specifically be counter to the proposal; the intent is that individual articles *should* be linked using this proposed AR. Not really, no. :( Even if we mandated use of the description field, I'm not convinced it would be actively used despite guidelines, and we have far too many AR edits currently for there to be special attention to these ones. It's also not really structured - I'll come back to that later. While this is true, I think we could mandate a structure, and a report (akin to the ASIN one) could detect those ARs which have either a missing, or incorrectly formatted, description. It'd be almost as easy for someone to edit in a description after the fact as it would be for the original editor to include it. I mainly think manual adding and maintenance of the kinds of volumes of links that are available for news on any given artist - for it to give a useful or complete picture - is far too great to manage, and better served by a search engine, or tagging+mashup style approach, rather than hard AR links. Add to that how quickly news article links come and go in their validity on many websites, and I'm just not convinced that the data would have much value in the years to come? Most of our links currently are for general concepts, or landing pages for an artist where there many only be say 1, 5, 10 or maybe even 50 such links for an artist added. When you're talking news articles, there are thousands that /could/ be linked. With non-standard or potentially unreliable URLs. Many might be recycled/syndicated content with some extra guff added. The ARs wouldn't have any structured metadata, so automatic processing of content would be difficult. While you're right, most ARs are of this sort, we do have not one, but four existing ARs which all can easily suffer the same problem... yet haven't. Biography, Fanpage, History, and Review Relationship Types all are so generic in what they allow linking to that any of the 4 could link to tens, hundreds, even thousands of sites. Yet I'm not aware of any artist which has more than perhaps a few of any of these. I'm still really not seeing the use case for individual articles here. Who would find this useful where a search or aggregator site mashup would not be better for their purpose? Imagine some future UI, giving this among the ARs for an artist: News coverage for Foo: 2000-10-03: A new band emerges! 2005-02-11: Foo's latest release is a hit 2007-09-05: Foo's 'All the Best Songs' goes platinum 2010-02-24: It's official, Foo is breaking up! Would that not perhaps be both useful and interesting? Personally, so long as the display were able to show me the headline's title, it'd be a lot more useful and interesting to see articles about specific events in U2's history, rather than simply a link to some category of articles about U2. If the latter were intended, the AR would seem rather redundant; an auto-generated link to http://news.google.com/news/search?q=U2 would suffice. As above, I can't really see why individual article links at MB would be better/more up to date/more correct than the news.google.com search either. There is nothing in the AR that says only link to articles about important stuff; and policing this would lead to subjective edit arguments. I don't think it needs it, to be honest. I think editors are relatively self-selecting. There's nothing to stop even some news agency from paying someone to link each and every article about an artist to that artist's page, but that'd perhaps be beneficial, if at least definitely not harmful. It might even garner MusicBrainz
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
*Style Leader hat on* An update on the Champion for this proposal: I've talked to ruaok. He's rather limited in what time he can devote to the lists (hence why he'd asked me to propose this for him). This is an AR he'd like to see happen, but he's busy enough that actively working the proposal isn't likely to happen. So he's asked me to champion it for him. *Style Leader hat off* This isn't a huge change, but it skips the delay of my passing any changes to the AR or proposal through ruoak, so long as the core of AR remains. So, let me reiterate my comments and suggestions from earlier today, in my new position as champion for this proposal. I've also spent part of today looking at what Wikipedia had to say about this type of link, given that they have frequently have news links as references. The only further changes or additions I'd make at the moment would be these (I'll wait on some comments, if there are any, before I revise the wiki proposal): * to specify that not 'any site on the net that can be considered a news site' should be linkable, but rather, that 'any site on the net that can be considered a news site which is considered reputable' * somehow, specify that we want real news articles, not tiny blurbs - perhaps a requirement that the article have a headline, and that the artist be a primary focus of the article, would suffice? * specify that the original source, or as close as possible, should be linked for any article. So an article from a Washington Post reporter would be fine to link to at the Washington Post, but an AP report should link to it at the AP, not at some tiny paper which reprinted the AP story. Brian On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com wrote: Trying to get this proposal back on track... :) On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Chad Wilson chad.wil...@gmx.net wrote: On 7/03/2010 2:56 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: I think the fear is there'd be tons of URLs linked, but without any context, those URLs don't give much, other than that you know there's some news article about the artist on the other end. However, if the AR description field could be displayed next to each URL AR for that type, that field would seem to work perfectly to address some of this concern and describe just what news article was on the other end of each such URL AR. Dev impact: It wouldn't really make sense to implement this type of description display on the current server code, but this would seem to entail only some minor additional template handling (specific to this AR type?) for the AR display page template on the NGS server. Plus, if it were added, esp universally, that so-far useless AR description field would actually now have some useful purpose. :) Brian Chad, would this address your concerns? As I understand the proposal, If it's the former, I think the proposal/guidelines should specifically say Do not link to individual articles about an artist/release, or something similar. would specifically be counter to the proposal; the intent is that individual articles *should* be linked using this proposed AR. Not really, no. :( Even if we mandated use of the description field, I'm not convinced it would be actively used despite guidelines, and we have far too many AR edits currently for there to be special attention to these ones. It's also not really structured - I'll come back to that later. While this is true, I think we could mandate a structure, and a report (akin to the ASIN one) could detect those ARs which have either a missing, or incorrectly formatted, description. It'd be almost as easy for someone to edit in a description after the fact as it would be for the original editor to include it. I mainly think manual adding and maintenance of the kinds of volumes of links that are available for news on any given artist - for it to give a useful or complete picture - is far too great to manage, and better served by a search engine, or tagging+mashup style approach, rather than hard AR links. Add to that how quickly news article links come and go in their validity on many websites, and I'm just not convinced that the data would have much value in the years to come? Most of our links currently are for general concepts, or landing pages for an artist where there many only be say 1, 5, 10 or maybe even 50 such links for an artist added. When you're talking news articles, there are thousands that /could/ be linked. With non-standard or potentially unreliable URLs. Many might be recycled/syndicated content with some extra guff added. The ARs wouldn't have any structured metadata, so automatic processing of content would be difficult. While you're right, most ARs are of this sort, we do have not one, but four existing ARs which all can easily suffer the same problem... yet haven't. Biography, Fanpage, History, and Review Relationship Types all are so generic in what they allow
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
On 7/03/2010 2:56 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: I think the fear is there'd be tons of URLs linked, but without any context, those URLs don't give much, other than that you know there's some news article about the artist on the other end. However, if the AR description field could be displayed next to each URL AR for that type, that field would seem to work perfectly to address some of this concern and describe just what news article was on the other end of each such URL AR. Dev impact: It wouldn't really make sense to implement this type of description display on the current server code, but this would seem to entail only some minor additional template handling (specific to this AR type?) for the AR display page template on the NGS server. Plus, if it were added, esp universally, that so-far useless AR description field would actually now have some useful purpose. :) Brian Chad, would this address your concerns? As I understand the proposal, If it's the former, I think the proposal/guidelines should specifically say Do not link to individual articles about an artist/release, or something similar. would specifically be counter to the proposal; the intent is that individual articles *should* be linked using this proposed AR. Not really, no. :( Even if we mandated use of the description field, I'm not convinced it would be actively used despite guidelines, and we have far too many AR edits currently for there to be special attention to these ones. It's also not really structured - I'll come back to that later. I mainly think manual adding and maintenance of the kinds of volumes of links that are available for news on any given artist - for it to give a useful or complete picture - is far too great to manage, and better served by a search engine, or tagging+mashup style approach, rather than hard AR links. Add to that how quickly news article links come and go in their validity on many websites, and I'm just not convinced that the data would have much value in the years to come? Most of our links currently are for general concepts, or landing pages for an artist where there many only be say 1, 5, 10 or maybe even 50 such links for an artist added. When you're talking news articles, there are thousands that /could/ be linked. With non-standard or potentially unreliable URLs. Many might be recycled/syndicated content with some extra guff added. The ARs wouldn't have any structured metadata, so automatic processing of content would be difficult. I'm still really not seeing the use case for individual articles here. Who would find this useful where a search or aggregator site mashup would not be better for their purpose? Personally, so long as the display were able to show me the headline's title, it'd be a lot more useful and interesting to see articles about specific events in U2's history, rather than simply a link to some category of articles about U2. If the latter were intended, the AR would seem rather redundant; an auto-generated link to http://news.google.com/news/search?q=U2 would suffice. As above, I can't really see why individual article links at MB would be better/more up to date/more correct than the news.google.com search either. There is nothing in the AR that says only link to articles about important stuff; and policing this would lead to subjective edit arguments. Sorry, I still really don't understand this. From my perspective, MB is a structured information database that derives its value from providing structured and computer-parseable hard links between its own entities and external entities of merit. I'm still not sure how extending that linking to an _unstructured_ bundle of news articles would be useful without structured metadata about those links (at the very least their date) - and even so, handling those kinds of volumes would seem to me to require a different management system, as Pavan alluded to on the IRC discussion. Chad ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 6:34 AM, Chad Wilson chad.wil...@gmx.net wrote: On 7/03/2010 2:56 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: I think the fear is there'd be tons of URLs linked, but without any context, those URLs don't give much, other than that you know there's some news article about the artist on the other end. However, if the AR description field could be displayed next to each URL AR for that type, that field would seem to work perfectly to address some of this concern and describe just what news article was on the other end of each such URL AR. Dev impact: It wouldn't really make sense to implement this type of description display on the current server code, but this would seem to entail only some minor additional template handling (specific to this AR type?) for the AR display page template on the NGS server. Plus, if it were added, esp universally, that so-far useless AR description field would actually now have some useful purpose. :) Brian Chad, would this address your concerns? As I understand the proposal, If it's the former, I think the proposal/guidelines should specifically say Do not link to individual articles about an artist/release, or something similar. would specifically be counter to the proposal; the intent is that individual articles *should* be linked using this proposed AR. Not really, no. :( Even if we mandated use of the description field, I'm not convinced it would be actively used despite guidelines, and we have far too many AR edits currently for there to be special attention to these ones. It's also not really structured - I'll come back to that later. I mainly think manual adding and maintenance of the kinds of volumes of links that are available for news on any given artist - for it to give a useful or complete picture - is far too great to manage, and better served by a search engine, or tagging+mashup style approach, rather than hard AR links. Add to that how quickly news article links come and go in their validity on many websites, and I'm just not convinced that the data would have much value in the years to come? Most of our links currently are for general concepts, or landing pages for an artist where there many only be say 1, 5, 10 or maybe even 50 such links for an artist added. When you're talking news articles, there are thousands that /could/ be linked. With non-standard or potentially unreliable URLs. Many might be recycled/syndicated content with some extra guff added. The ARs wouldn't have any structured metadata, so automatic processing of content would be difficult. I'm still really not seeing the use case for individual articles here. Who would find this useful where a search or aggregator site mashup would not be better for their purpose? Personally, so long as the display were able to show me the headline's title, it'd be a lot more useful and interesting to see articles about specific events in U2's history, rather than simply a link to some category of articles about U2. If the latter were intended, the AR would seem rather redundant; an auto-generated link to http://news.google.com/news/search?q=U2 would suffice. As above, I can't really see why individual article links at MB would be better/more up to date/more correct than the news.google.com search either. There is nothing in the AR that says only link to articles about important stuff; and policing this would lead to subjective edit arguments. Sorry, I still really don't understand this. From my perspective, MB is a structured information database that derives its value from providing structured and computer-parseable hard links between its own entities and external entities of merit. I'm still not sure how extending that linking to an _unstructured_ bundle of news articles would be useful without structured metadata about those links (at the very least their date) - and even so, handling those kinds of volumes would seem to me to require a different management system, as Pavan alluded to on the IRC discussion. Chad Speaking personally, I somewhat agree. For the bigger name bands or composers, then the problems you describe would definitely happen. Where I think this might be useful, though, is for the smaller artists. U2, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Mozart - there'll be hundreds of thousands of potential AR targets. But for the artist who exists only on Jamendo, or is still a small town band, or even is a composer outside of the mainstream, there's likely to perhaps not even be a dozen, spread out over time, and quite possibly tucked away in college/small town newspapers or specialty journals. For these, there'd be benefit, imho. Also, unrelated, but re: the proposal, I think there should be some limitation on what is news - I wouldn't want to see this AR used for album reviews, and I think concert reviews would/should be separate as well. Now, take those two categories out, and perhaps the number of valid targets
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Robert Kaye r...@eorbit.net wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 3:12 AM, Chad Wilson wrote: I'm reading two different concepts here. The original idea for Guardian in IRC talks about linking to tag/index pages on an artist, which might be sensible. The proposal as it reads, and the basic text of the relationship sounds like a free-for-all to link to individual articles, which I don't think would be a good idea. Which is it? Why is linking to individual news articles a problem? -- --ruaokThe answer to whether or not something is a good idea should not be taken as an indication of whether I want to do it. I think the fear is there'd be tons of URLs linked, but without any context, those URLs don't give much, other than that you know there's some news article about the artist on the other end. However, if the AR description field could be displayed next to each URL AR for that type, that field would seem to work perfectly to address some of this concern and describe just what news article was on the other end of each such URL AR. Dev impact: It wouldn't really make sense to implement this type of description display on the current server code, but this would seem to entail only some minor additional template handling (specific to this AR type?) for the AR display page template on the NGS server. Plus, if it were added, esp universally, that so-far useless AR description field would actually now have some useful purpose. :) Brian Chad, would this address your concerns? As I understand the proposal, If it's the former, I think the proposal/guidelines should specifically say Do not link to individual articles about an artist/release, or something similar. would specifically be counter to the proposal; the intent is that individual articles *should* be linked using this proposed AR. Personally, so long as the display were able to show me the headline's title, it'd be a lot more useful and interesting to see articles about specific events in U2's history, rather than simply a link to some category of articles about U2. If the latter were intended, the AR would seem rather redundant; an auto-generated link to http://news.google.com/news/search?q=U2would suffice. Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
On Feb 28, 2010, at 3:12 AM, Chad Wilson wrote: I'm reading two different concepts here. The original idea for Guardian in IRC talks about linking to tag/index pages on an artist, which might be sensible. The proposal as it reads, and the basic text of the relationship sounds like a free-for-all to link to individual articles, which I don't think would be a good idea. Which is it? Why is linking to individual news articles a problem? -- --ruaokThe answer to whether or not something is a good idea should not be taken as an indication of whether I want to do it. Robert Kaye -- r...@eorbit.net --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Robert Kaye r...@eorbit.net wrote: On Feb 28, 2010, at 3:12 AM, Chad Wilson wrote: I'm reading two different concepts here. The original idea for Guardian in IRC talks about linking to tag/index pages on an artist, which might be sensible. The proposal as it reads, and the basic text of the relationship sounds like a free-for-all to link to individual articles, which I don't think would be a good idea. Which is it? Why is linking to individual news articles a problem? -- --ruaokThe answer to whether or not something is a good idea should not be taken as an indication of whether I want to do it. I think the fear is there'd be tons of URLs linked, but without any context, those URLs don't give much, other than that you know there's some news article about the artist on the other end. However, if the AR description field could be displayed next to each URL AR for that type, that field would seem to work perfectly to address some of this concern and describe just what news article was on the other end of each such URL AR. Dev impact: It wouldn't really make sense to implement this type of description display on the current server code, but this would seem to entail only some minor additional template handling (specific to this AR type?) for the AR display page template on the NGS server. Plus, if it were added, esp universally, that so-far useless AR description field would actually now have some useful purpose. :) Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
I'm reading two different concepts here. The original idea for Guardian in IRC talks about linking to tag/index pages on an artist, which might be sensible. The proposal as it reads, and the basic text of the relationship sounds like a free-for-all to link to individual articles, which I don't think would be a good idea. Which is it? If it's the former, I think the proposal/guidelines should specifically say Do not link to individual articles about an artist/release, or something similar. Chad On 28/02/2010 3:45 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: The same had occurred to me, though I'm not 100% decided if such a potentally large list of URLs would be a good or bad thing; I could see it almost becoming some sort of fodder for a future news about artists I'm subscribed to rss feed. The origin of this AR was in last week's dev meeting, where Rob was asking about adding an AR for links to The Guardian. I've cut out the more un-related bits; here's the relevant part of the discussion which led to this RFC: 20:48:50 ruaok the Guardian would like to have MB link to its tag pages: 20:49:02 ruaok http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/thebeatles 20:49:16 ruaok what are your thoughts for adding a new AR type for this? 20:49:29 aCiD2 what would be the type? 20:50:00 ruaok I hadn't explored that yet. 20:50:09 ruaok has guardian acticles at ? 20:50:13 ruaok *articles 20:51:25 nikki I would probably just say has a guardian.co.uk http://guardian.co.uk page at 20:51:45 ruaok nikki: +1 20:52:08 ijabz +1 20:52:10 ruaok any objections to the general concept of linking to the guardian, tho? 20:52:22 navap Is guardian.co.uk http://guardian.co.uk a physical newspaper as well? 20:52:25 nikki yes 20:52:27 ruaok yes 20:52:35 ruaok a respected one at that. 20:52:37 navap And they call themselves guardian.co.uk http://guardian.co.uk? 20:52:38 ruaok not a tabloid 20:52:41 brianfreud Only in so far as who *don't* we link to 20:52:47 warpruaok: what value does it provide for our users? 20:52:49 ijabz no, they are quite similar to the bbc in some ways 20:52:54 ruaok no, The Guardian 20:53:02 ruaok warp: more links to find info about bands. 20:53:15 ruaok if someone wanted to search for new articles relating to our artists. 20:53:18 navap ruaok: I'm surprised they don't call themselves The Guardian on their site as well. 20:53:23 warpruaok: sure, but what is the data at the end of the link? 20:53:42 ruaok links to articles relating to that band. 20:53:46 ruaok not structured data. 20:54:00 navap Are they linking back to us from that /music/ page? 20:54:06 navap (Or any other page) 20:54:10 warpruaok: articles written by the guardian? 20:54:13 ruaok the plan to. 20:54:15 brianfreud ruaok: Could that be generalized to has press coverage, or some such? Thinking Rolling Stone, Washington Post, San Fran Chron, New York Times, Paris Match, etc 20:54:23 ruaok warp: only articles written by the guardian. 20:54:32 ruaok brianfreud: thats good. I like. 20:54:41 ijabz They are way ahead of other uk newspapers wrt their internet presence 20:55:03 ruaok and their information architect contacted us directly. 20:55:05 warpbrianfreud: +1 :) 20:55:23 ruaok I'm keen to make this happen. I have the same respect for the guardian as I do the for the BBC. 20:55:24 navap Where do we draw the line? (Do we draw a line?) Between which newspapers we link to and which we don't? 20:56:01 ruaok with the general new coverage link our users and reviewers make the decision. 20:56:04 brianfreud that's going to be the crux of debate about adding the AR on the style list /me reads the future 20:56:09 ruaok which works well for me. more power to the users! 20:57:01 ruaok I'll make the proposal page for it. I think this idea has merit. 20:57:14 nikki I quite like the idea of linking to stuff, 'cause then we have lots of structured links to places and people will be like oooh and want to use our data, instead of, say, wikipedia's where you have to magically figure out what each link actually is 20:57:30 ruaok +10 nikki 20:57:48 ruaok I think adding more links to known good resources is a good idea. 20:58:01 ruaok esp if the trusted new sources are willing to do this for us. 20:58:41 navap So perhaps our current system of entity-url links needs modernizing? Maybe something that can scale better if/when we start linking to more and more sites? (at this point the discussion moved away from this AR) On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 2:33 AM, Chad Wilson chad.wil...@gmx.net mailto:chad.wil...@gmx.net wrote: I think this needs to be properly clarified as to its intention. People will start adding links to individual
[mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
Note: I am sending this RFC on ruoak's behalf; in case of disagreement between he and I on this proposal, he's the Idea Champion here, not me - no need for him to use Style Elder to override Style Leader. :D This would add a new AR, linking artists and releases to press pages where news coverage for the artist or release can be found. This RFC is RFC-68, and has a proposal page at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Has_News_Coverage_Relationship_Type . Without objection, this RFC will move to RFV on Sunday, 2010-03-10. Thanks, Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
Sorry, that should read Sunday, 2010-03-07. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com wrote: Note: I am sending this RFC on ruoak's behalf; in case of disagreement between he and I on this proposal, he's the Idea Champion here, not me - no need for him to use Style Elder to override Style Leader. :D This would add a new AR, linking artists and releases to press pages where news coverage for the artist or release can be found. This RFC is RFC-68, and has a proposal page at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Has_News_Coverage_Relationship_Type . Without objection, this RFC will move to RFV on Sunday, 2010-03-10. Thanks, Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
I think this needs to be properly clarified as to its intention. People will start adding links to individual articles about artists or releases which /surely/ cannot be the goal of this proposal? If that were it happen it seems to me that it will create an absolute mess of links of dubious merit. What is the goal here? If it's to link to feeds or tag-index pages, fine, but individual articles would seem like madness to me (and as currently worded, I'd say that's what people will try and link). Chad On 28/02/2010 3:20 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: Sorry, that should read Sunday, 2010-03-07. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com mailto:brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com wrote: Note: I am sending this RFC on ruoak's behalf; in case of disagreement between he and I on this proposal, he's the Idea Champion here, not me - no need for him to use Style Elder to override Style Leader. :D This would add a new AR, linking artists and releases to press pages where news coverage for the artist or release can be found. This RFC is RFC-68, and has a proposal page at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Has_News_Coverage_Relationship_Type . Without objection, this RFC will move to RFV on Sunday, 2010-03-10. Thanks, ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Add Has News Coverage At AR
The same had occurred to me, though I'm not 100% decided if such a potentally large list of URLs would be a good or bad thing; I could see it almost becoming some sort of fodder for a future news about artists I'm subscribed to rss feed. The origin of this AR was in last week's dev meeting, where Rob was asking about adding an AR for links to The Guardian. I've cut out the more un-related bits; here's the relevant part of the discussion which led to this RFC: 20:48:50 ruaok the Guardian would like to have MB link to its tag pages: 20:49:02 ruaok http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/thebeatles 20:49:16 ruaok what are your thoughts for adding a new AR type for this? 20:49:29 aCiD2 what would be the type? 20:50:00 ruaok I hadn't explored that yet. 20:50:09 ruaok has guardian acticles at ? 20:50:13 ruaok *articles 20:51:25 nikki I would probably just say has a guardian.co.uk page at 20:51:45 ruaok nikki: +1 20:52:08 ijabz +1 20:52:10 ruaok any objections to the general concept of linking to the guardian, tho? 20:52:22 navap Is guardian.co.uk a physical newspaper as well? 20:52:25 nikki yes 20:52:27 ruaok yes 20:52:35 ruaok a respected one at that. 20:52:37 navap And they call themselves guardian.co.uk? 20:52:38 ruaok not a tabloid 20:52:41 brianfreud Only in so far as who *don't* we link to 20:52:47 warpruaok: what value does it provide for our users? 20:52:49 ijabz no, they are quite similar to the bbc in some ways 20:52:54 ruaok no, The Guardian 20:53:02 ruaok warp: more links to find info about bands. 20:53:15 ruaok if someone wanted to search for new articles relating to our artists. 20:53:18 navap ruaok: I'm surprised they don't call themselves The Guardian on their site as well. 20:53:23 warpruaok: sure, but what is the data at the end of the link? 20:53:42 ruaok links to articles relating to that band. 20:53:46 ruaok not structured data. 20:54:00 navap Are they linking back to us from that /music/ page? 20:54:06 navap (Or any other page) 20:54:10 warpruaok: articles written by the guardian? 20:54:13 ruaok the plan to. 20:54:15 brianfreud ruaok: Could that be generalized to has press coverage, or some such? Thinking Rolling Stone, Washington Post, San Fran Chron, New York Times, Paris Match, etc 20:54:23 ruaok warp: only articles written by the guardian. 20:54:32 ruaok brianfreud: thats good. I like. 20:54:41 ijabz They are way ahead of other uk newspapers wrt their internet presence 20:55:03 ruaok and their information architect contacted us directly. 20:55:05 warpbrianfreud: +1 :) 20:55:23 ruaok I'm keen to make this happen. I have the same respect for the guardian as I do the for the BBC. 20:55:24 navap Where do we draw the line? (Do we draw a line?) Between which newspapers we link to and which we don't? 20:56:01 ruaok with the general new coverage link our users and reviewers make the decision. 20:56:04 brianfreud that's going to be the crux of debate about adding the AR on the style list /me reads the future 20:56:09 ruaok which works well for me. more power to the users! 20:57:01 ruaok I'll make the proposal page for it. I think this idea has merit. 20:57:14 nikki I quite like the idea of linking to stuff, 'cause then we have lots of structured links to places and people will be like oooh and want to use our data, instead of, say, wikipedia's where you have to magically figure out what each link actually is 20:57:30 ruaok +10 nikki 20:57:48 ruaok I think adding more links to known good resources is a good idea. 20:58:01 ruaok esp if the trusted new sources are willing to do this for us. 20:58:41 navap So perhaps our current system of entity-url links needs modernizing? Maybe something that can scale better if/when we start linking to more and more sites? (at this point the discussion moved away from this AR) On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 2:33 AM, Chad Wilson chad.wil...@gmx.net wrote: I think this needs to be properly clarified as to its intention. People will start adding links to individual articles about artists or releases which /surely/ cannot be the goal of this proposal? If that were it happen it seems to me that it will create an absolute mess of links of dubious merit. What is the goal here? If it's to link to feeds or tag-index pages, fine, but individual articles would seem like madness to me (and as currently worded, I'd say that's what people will try and link). Chad On 28/02/2010 3:20 p.m., Brian Schweitzer wrote: Sorry, that should read Sunday, 2010-03-07. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com wrote: Note: I am sending this RFC on ruoak's behalf; in case of disagreement between he and I on this
